Bruyneel ordered to pay US government $1.2m in Lance Armstrong case

oldpotatoe · #1 08-23-2018, 08:32 AM

Good luck seeing any of it Uncle (Sam)...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bruy...rmstrong-case/

Burnette · #2 08-23-2018, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Good luck seeing any of it Uncle (Sam)...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bruy...rmstrong-case/

"Bruyneel resides in Europe and so the judgement, in theory, could only be enforced against assets he has - or brings into - the US".

Everybody made money off of it, this is just lawyers and grand standing.

RonW87 · #3 08-23-2018, 09:37 AM

Not sure why this judgment wouldn't be enforceable in Belgium against Bruyneel. There is a general rule that tax laws are not enforceable in other countries (absent a specific treaty) but I don't think that this case is about taxes.

In the linked article an NYU law prof says it would be difficult to enforce a default judgment (ie Bruyneel - or his counsel - never showed up to contest the case). I'd say only slightly more difficult.

US courts are not shy about extraterritorial reach, but given the sponsor was US postal, I think this exercise of extraterritoriality would be recognized even in Belgium.

https://iclg.com/practice-areas/enfo...ations/belgium

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/en...-belgium-29229

Mark McM · #4 08-23-2018, 09:39 AM

So much for the claims that Armstrong was singled out. The fact of the matter is that several people associated with the management of Tailwind Sports (the owner of the US Postal and Discovery teams) have been sued and/or been banned from cycling. But since Armstrong is the most well known of the Tailwind management, he's the only one people seem to hear about.

bicycletricycle · #5 08-23-2018, 09:44 AM

I wonder if he has US assets.

saab2000 · #6 08-23-2018, 10:15 AM

Everyone got what they wanted from this sponsorship. Is this lawsuit solely based on Floyd Landis and his lawyers?

I’m totally serious. USPS got what they wanted - publicity and exposure and association with then-popular Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong and Bruyneel got what they wanted - TdF wins. The public got what they wanted - a feel-good fairy tale.

Is this just a lawyer-driven lawsuit for no other reason than that they can? That’s what it seems like.

bicycletricycle · #7 08-23-2018, 10:26 AM

I agree that everyone got what they wanted and that some of this seems petty or perhaps driven by some vendetta. Lance said that the reason he was able to settle in that last case was that the prosecution openly admitted that no harm was done to the sponsors.

The reality is that Lance and the team did lie, cheat, break contracts and break the law. Not only did they do this but Lance was a real ass about the whole thing. Threatening and suing people, etc. That kind of behavior will get a reaction and we are seeing that reaction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab2000

Everyone got what they wanted from this sponsorship. Is this lawsuit solely based on Floyd Landis and his lawyers?

I’m totally serious. USPS got what they wanted - publicity and exposure and association with then-popular Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong and Bruyneel got what they wanted - TdF wins. The public got what they wanted - a feel-good fairy tale.

Is this just a lawyer-driven lawsuit for no other reason than that they can? That’s what it seems like.

Mark McM · #8 08-23-2018, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab2000

Is this lawsuit solely based on Floyd Landis and his lawyers?

I'm not sure I understand the basis of this question. How and why could Landis force the US government to sue someone to repay the government? It is true that Landis can claim a piece of the settlement through the federal Whistleblower laws, but it is up the government whether they want to actually bring a case against the accused.

And, of course, it is not up to either USPS or Landis whether Bruyneel has to repay the government. Both sides presented arguments, and the judge decided that Bruyneel has to repay.

FlashUNC · #9 08-23-2018, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab2000

Everyone got what they wanted from this sponsorship. Is this lawsuit solely based on Floyd Landis and his lawyers?

I’m totally serious. USPS got what they wanted - publicity and exposure and association with then-popular Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong and Bruyneel got what they wanted - TdF wins. The public got what they wanted - a feel-good fairy tale.

Is this just a lawyer-driven lawsuit for no other reason than that they can? That’s what it seems like.

And now USPS gets to be tied to one of the greatest sports frauds in history.

It was a feel-good fairy tale, but it was also fraud. Let's not dismiss a crime where one clearly occurred.

bikingshearer · #10 08-23-2018, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette

"Bruyneel resides in Europe and so the judgement, in theory, could only be enforced against assets he has - or brings into - the US".

Everybody made money off of it, this is just lawyers and grand standing.

Depending on what treaties we have with Belgium (or wherever he has assets) regarding enforcing each other's judgments (and I know zero about that), it may be possible to reach what he has overseas. As a practical matter, I doubt if it will ever happen unless he does something stupid.

Idris Icabod · #11 08-23-2018, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And now USPS gets to be tied to one of the greatest sports frauds in history.

It was a feel-good fairy tale, but it was also fraud. Let's not dismiss a crime where one clearly occurred.

I'm not sure USPS is as associated in peoples minds with the fall out as you might think. I literally just asked 2 people at work which company sponsored Lance Armstrong during his tour wins, one didn't know, the other said Subaru.

Mark McM · #12 08-23-2018, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idris Icabod

I'm not sure USPS is as associated in peoples minds with the fall out as you might think. I literally just asked 2 people at work which company sponsored Lance Armstrong during his tour wins, one didn't know, the other said Subaru.

I'm not sure we can jump to any conclusions about this. Let's not forget that USPS didn't sponsor a cycling team because they wanted more brand recognition in the US - they did it because they wanted to attract more business in Europe. Europeans appear to be more critical of sports doping (at least in cycling), and in fact several European cycling team sponsors have left the sports due to the bad publicity generated by doping scandals. It is entirely possible that the reputation of the USPS in Europe has been besmirched by its connection to one of the biggest doping scandals in cycling.

saab2000 · #13 08-23-2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'm not sure I understand the basis of this question. How and why could Landis force the US government to sue someone to repay the government? It is true that Landis can claim a piece of the settlement through the federal Whistleblower laws, but it is up the government whether they want to actually bring a case against the accused.

And, of course, it is not up to either USPS or Landis whether Bruyneel has to repay the government. Both sides presented arguments, and the judge decided that Bruyneel has to repay.

That's where I was going with this - the whistleblower thing. Seems like sour grapes on Landis' part and it seems that this whole thing is actually driven by lawyers looking for a payday.

As to USPS in Europe, I'm very doubtful. I have family in Europe, we follow cycling and for everyone I know, this is ancient history and water under the bridge at this point. Nobody cares about USPS in Europe. I can't, when I'm in Switzerland, go to a USPS office and mail a letter or a package. I can only go to a Swiss post office.

I'm astonished that public money is still being spent on this story. It's over and I reiterate my opinion that fraud or not on the part of Tailwind Sports, everyone got what they wanted. Yes, LA was a dick. Even he admits it.

As someone else mentioned, ask his competitors who won those races? Nobody else will come forth to claim them because either 1. They themselves have been found to have cheated or 2. They haven't been found to have cheated but know they did, in fact, cheat.

Just my $.02.... Don't spend it all in one place!

tombtfslpk · #14 08-23-2018, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

The reality is that Lance and the team did lie, cheat, break contracts and break the law. Not only did they do this but Lance was a real ass about the whole thing. Threatening and suing people, etc. That kind of behavior will get a reaction and we are seeing that reaction.

I agree, yet find a competitive situation where teams aren't willing to "lie, cheat, break contracts and break the law" when necessary to gain a competitive advantage? More specifically, find a Tour de France winning team that hasn't done any (and probably all) of these things to capture a Tour victory.
Now the second part of your statement. No doubt, Lance was, and I expect still is, the poster child for D-bag behavior. My opinion is....You plant those seeds, sooner or later you have to deal with the harvest.

93KgBike · #15 08-23-2018, 11:35 AM

This non-story just won't conclude, and fade away.

Meanwhile, the Catholic Church seems to have almost zero interest from prosecutors here, or anywhere else. smh