[callmeishmael]

One of my 2 main road bikes has a steel frame: it’s Reynolds 853/853 pro. The frame (painted, with a seatclamp and derailleur hanger) weighs in at ~1900g, in a ~53cm (custom geometry), with quite a layered and hence heavy paintjob (it was apparently ~1650g unpainted).

A riding buddy of mine was admiring it a while back, and after saying how good it looked, asked me what I thought of it and how it was to ride. The gist of my reply was that it handles well, fits well, looks great, and the process was rewarding, but it doesn’t have quite the springy or supple feel I’d hoped for. To describe it as ‘dead’ would be an overstatement, but it’s not lively in the way I’d hoped.

For context, it's probably worth noting I'm 155lbs at 5ft 10 (71kg/178cm) and a reasonably strong club rider, but certainly no watt monster and I don't race.

A bit of a back-and-forth then ensued (before we got distracted by a tough climb) about whether too many modern steel builders are trying to imitate carbon bikes in terms of stiffness and losing some of the material’s unique qualities in doing so, or actually whether this whole idea of steel ride feel is a bit of a myth/rose-tinted spectacles/projection exercise. I'm also sure I recall steel frames (and not massively high end ones, either) coming in comfortably sub 4lbs/1800g in the mid 90s; it seems a bit odd to my mind that many modern steel frames are heavier than that, unless these frames are being made much stiffer.

So that leads me to my questions, especially as there are quite a few people on here whom I suspect know a lot about this.

My basic contention is my frame is a touch overbuilt for a rider of my weight, and as such loses a bit of character. My riding partner's contention is that a uniquely steel ride feel is a myth, and I'm looking for something that will/would never really be there. I don't agree, but I could be wrong, and I’d be grateful for the hive wisdom.

First, are many modern steel frames overbuilt? Next, do they lose something in being so, or is that subtle flow and spring (something that is arguably the holy grail of choosing to build/ride steel) actually a bit of a myth or psychological invention? Last, if it is agreed that such a ride quality is possible without making a frame very fragile, how does one go about getting it? What sort of conversations would you have with a builder, and what tubing might they use?