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Originally Posted by David Kirk
I'm sorry I offended you - it certainly wasn't my intention.
IMO there is no religion about this. It's either you can feel something or you can't. Some are more sensitive and others less so. Simple and scientific in my mind. You may be right. The bikes in question may be different in a number of ways and that is what he feeling. My point is that even when every effort is made to make the bikes identical they will feel different. When building bikes for pro teams I've often made a rider a few bikes at the same time -same tubes, numbers, all that. They they get painted the same way and they have the same parts hung on them by the same mechanic and adjusted the same way. The the riders take these things out on the road and have a preference for one over the other and can pick that bike out every time. This is my experience.
Some folks will say no one can feel the difference between latex and butyl inner tubes - that's it too small a difference. Yet many, myself included can tell immediately that there is a difference. In my experience there are many thing like this that some say they can feel and that others say can not be felt. In my mind it's not altogether different from high end audio. Some folks can not tell the difference because they are either not physically able or because they haven't trained their ear all the while others can clearly hear the difference. it's just the way it is.
I used to train with a guy who didn't notice that his seat post was loose and had slipped down into the frame 2 1/2". He was a damn skilled and strong cyclist yet it took someone riding along side him to say - "yo, what's up with your seat?" and even then he didn't notice. Some do and some don't.
What frustrates me is when folks tell me that something I clearly feel and can blind test on, and is repeatable, can not be felt.
As for the term naysayer. I did not mean this as a derogatory term at all. I meant it as someone who says "nay" to the point in question. The naysayers are folks that disagree. I think you disagree and that is cool and I would put you into that camp as someone who says "no, it can't be felt". Nothing bad about this IMO. I would be the naysayer to your side. No insult was intended. If I misunderstand the word and I used it incorrectly I apologize.
Due respect.
dave
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...but lose me at the tube thing.
I know for a fact that I'm not very sensitive to little changes but friends of mine are. I think that it's true with any endeavor and often it is what separates pros and amateurs. There is no question that race car drivers can feel stuff that would be lost on everyone else and golfers, tennis players, etc. can fell the slightest little change in their swing. Hell, most amateurs can feel if it is good or not as it leaves our hand.
I have absolutely no reason to question that you can feel the difference betweens the tubes and you have nothing to gain by claiming to do so. It's just the physics. The amount of energy involved with deforming the tube just seems to small for me to comprehend that it could be sensed. Maybe it interacts with the inside of the tire differently any you can feel that. I have no clue. It just seems far fetched to me that you (global you) would be able to sense it.
All that said, I'm never ceased to be amazed when it comes to what humans are able to accomplish and sense.
Have you really done blind test and were able to consistently distinguish?