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-   -   OT: Rent inflation - what's the cause? (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=275293)

smontanaro 10-27-2021 07:34 AM

OT: Rent inflation - what's the cause?
 
There's plenty of talk in the business press (and probably outside it) about how "transitory" the spike in inflation really is. One issue is that of rent. Here's a quote from NY Times article about the topic:

Quote:

But analysts say the crucial concern for bond market investors was that prices seemingly unrelated to the pandemic were also beginning to move higher. Foremost among them was monthly rents, which tend to rise for long stretches once they start moving upward. Rents jumped 0.5 percent from August to September, the quickest rise in about 20 years.
If it's not the pandemic causing rental rates to rise, what is it? Is it possible it's private equity's increased presence in the rental housing market? Here's a quote from another NY Times article in March 2020 (emphasis mine):

Quote:

Over the next seven years, Strategic Acquisitions would turn over management to Colony Capital, and Colony’s real estate holdings would merge with a series of companies, culminating in the Blackstone subsidiary Invitation Homes, making Invitation Homes the largest single-family-rental company in America, with 82,500 homes at its height — and 79,505 homes after Blackstone sold its shares at the end of last year. Ellingwood, however, could hardly distinguish among the various L.L.C.s he paid rent to: Strategic Property Management, Colony American Homes, Starwood Waypoint, Invitation Homes. The offices changed cities, downsized staff, hiked rents and imposed increasingly punitive fees. Ellingwood was required to submit his rent in different ways — online, certified mail, cashier’s check, in person — with slightly different rules, by the 1st, by the 3rd. The leases grew in length from four pages to 18 to 43 as the companies doubled down on strictures and transferred more responsibilities — mold remediation, landscaping, carbon-monoxide detectors — onto the renter.

Ellingwood didn’t know it at the time, but his story was to be the story of millions of renters around the country, the beginning of a downward spiral into the financial industry’s newest scheme to harvest money from housing.
I couldn't easily find information about what percentage of the rental housing market is in the hands of private equity (credit my feeble Google-fu), but I don't think it has to command a huge fraction of the units in a tight housing market to drive rents up. Long story short, I wonder how much of the spike in rents is artificial and was really going to happen — pandemic or not — based simply on greed?

Ralph 10-27-2021 08:02 AM

Viscous market.

tuscanyswe 10-27-2021 08:22 AM

Theres been a few articles here in sweden about blackstone as well. Not possitive..

cinema 10-27-2021 08:25 AM

one of the reasons is because of what you mentioned, REPE (real estate private equity)

They can absorb vacant units until they are filled with people who will pay more. someone like me will not. i have a few units that i own and rent and wouldn’t think of asking more for them, most have been renting at the same
rate since 2016. it is not worth it for little guys like me to lose the tenant and spend longer marketing units.

low interest rate in general has been a disaster for the renting and working class. it allows people with access to large amounts of cheap/free cash to purchase assets like land and real estate and sell them later on for more as purchasing power declines. all the while the working class has been supplying the hard cash for the equity via rent. basically these REPE folks are getting free everything—free debt, free equity, free profit on a long enough timeline.

ripvanrando 10-27-2021 08:45 AM

I don't know if this is true but a buddy told me that he could not throw people out during pandemic and that he lost a lot of money during that time. So, the new renters are being charged higher prices accordingly. Another issue is the difficulty building new homes due to outrageous material costs and lack of appliances to outfit the home. We know a couple who were supposed to move into their new home in June and they still do not have the appliances. They are renting while their completed new home awaits the missing parts to enable them to move in.

batman1425 10-27-2021 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripvanrando (Post 3002542)
I don't know if this is true but a buddy told me that he could not throw people out during pandemic and that he lost a lot of money during that time. So, the new renters are being charged higher prices accordingly. Another issue is the difficulty building new homes due to outrageous material costs and lack of appliances to outfit the home. We know a couple who were supposed to move into their new home in June and they still do not have the appliances. They are renting while their completed new home awaits the missing parts to enable them to move in.

^^^ Yep, pretty much all of this. Eviction moratoriums and insane construction costs for new builds.

verticaldoug 10-27-2021 09:02 AM

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It's complicated, for greater New York, a large part of it is the reversal of rent declines from last year.

For other areas, Phoenix, Atlanta, Austin, it may be partly driven by WFH professionals moving from higher cost urban areas, (Los Angeles, San Fran, NYC) with higher paying jobs willing to pay more for a property. The pandemic did speed migration from Urban to Rural, and Rural has much less excess inventory to absorb an increase in demand. You can look at what happened to rents and home prices in Williston , North Dakota because of the influx of demand for housing because of fracking in the bakken from 2010 to 2020. Population went from 14,000 to 32,000 with higher paying fracking jobs driving up rents to become unaffordable to the traditional agriculture jobs..


I think the monopolistic power of someone like Blackstone may be overstated, but overtime, they will be more willing to consistently raise rents.

Zoning and other restrictions are a factor. It will be interesting to see what happens in LA now that SB9/10 are law.

I'm waiting for companies to start adjusting WFH pay depending on local cost of living at some point in the future. Then this gets interesting. Why will a San Fran employer pay a San Fran salary to someone living in Phoenix, or Denver or Salt Lake City?

prototoast 10-27-2021 09:03 AM

Lots of factors, but I think who actually owns the units is the least of them. Even the biggest players in real estate generally own only a small share in any given market, so gaining meaningful market power is exceptionally hard and requires more cash than any private equity firms have, unless they have an extremely narrow geographic scope.

Rental markets are reasonably competitive, although both demand and supply are relatively inelastic. So examining supply, the past decade has seen historically low construction of new housing units.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=I4ig

On the demand side of things, while population growth has been modest, real disposable personal income spiked in the past year, giving people more money and effectively pushing the demand curve out. Additionally, during the pandemic, people were generally stuck at home, and unable to spend money on various leisure activities (travel, dining out, live events) that previously used some of their disposable income, so they had more money and more interest in investing in where they lived.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=IgpN

But because supply is inelastic (particularly in the past year when building materials were in short supply, but also long-term trends due to limited capacity in the construction industry and zoning restrictions), this extra supply pushes prices up more than it induces increased supply.

So, it costs more to live places. If you think it's a good thing to have housing more affordable, we need more housing units. If zoning restrictions don't get in the way, that private equity investment should spur new construction to put downward pressure on prices over time.

bigbill 10-27-2021 09:16 AM

Section 8 housing has created a shortage of available units for the folks that make decent salaries but either can't afford a house or aren't ready to buy. I hired a new-grad engineer at $65K and he had a hard time finding an apartment or house to rent because he "makes too much money." Landlords prefer Section 8 because it's guaranteed money.

For rental prices, I rented a house (one of two available) for the first two years after I relocated here from Texas. Last year I bought a nicer house on a bigger lot for five dollars less a month in mortgage than I was paying in rent.

It's also supply and demand, we're 45 minutes from California and seeing a huge influx of people leaving the republic.

Alistair 10-27-2021 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripvanrando (Post 3002542)
I don't know if this is true but a buddy told me that he could not throw people out during pandemic and that he lost a lot of money during that time.

Eviction moratoriums were ill-advised political arse-kissing. It would have been better to give cash to people who needed it (via the same tax credit mechanism we used for smaller payouts, or some other means).

thew 10-27-2021 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinema (Post 3002520)
one of the reasons is because of what you mentioned, REPE (real estate private equity)

They can absorb vacant units until they are filled with people who will pay more. someone like me will not. i have a few units that i own and rent and wouldn’t think of asking more for them, most have been renting at the same
rate since 2016. it is not worth it for little guys like me to lose the tenant and spend longer marketing units.

low interest rate in general has been a disaster for the renting and working class. it allows people with access to large amounts of cheap/free cash to purchase assets like land and real estate and sell them later on for more as a purchasing power declines. all the while the working class has been supplying the hard cash for the equity via rent. basically these REPE folks are getting free everything—free debt, free equity, free profit on a long enough timeline.

Demand from big investors and low interest rates has driven up the price of rental stock in my area up 75%+ over the last 3-4 years, driving rent up for everyone. I spent most of the summer looking into buying a 2-3 unit property, planning to live in one unit and rent the others. However I would have had to charge a pretty drastically unaffordable rent for the area in order for it to make sense financially vs just buying a single family home.

benb 10-27-2021 09:42 AM

My wife is a real estate executive who has worked at one of the biggest REITs and now works for a smaller private one, I hear about this stuff all day long.

There are a ton of factors but who is buying the units/houses isn't really that big of a deal, none of the investors are or were in it for a charity. Maybe the only difference is the big investors are more professional and don't leave money on the table like Mom and Pop landlords. Small landlords are not likely to be hiring sophisticated analysts, running models, sending employees out to their competitors posing as customers, etc.. the powerful companies are doing that stuff all the time. They have desired turnover figures, % occupancy figures, expected % rent growth figures, etc.. They don't want all the units full and they don't want you staying a long time necessarily.

- Most high cost markets have extensive affordable housing rules & controls that have backfired in some ways. The more units you make affordable the higher the market rate is going to be because you're taking units off the open market. This stuff is pretty out of control in MA. You've got ultra luxury buildings where rents are $3k-5k and then there's piles of affordable units in the building that tons of money is being lost on so they're making everyone else pay for it. Gotta make the building ultra lux to help cover the cost of the affordable units to make the #s work.

- The same markets controlled by progressives are a) crowded b) Have less space to build new units c) have rules/regulations which make it much more costly/difficult to build. All this makes it much harder for non-professionals to get through the process and drives up the cost, so your investors only want to have units at the high end.

- Professionals running this stuff are keenly aware of all these factors and explicitly try to trade up their portfolio into the high cost markets where the government has made it really hard for supply to catch up. They try to shift your portfolio out of the south/midwest into CA/NY/Boston/whatever as your business improves. Markets where the government makes it relatively easy to build new units and there is plenty of land to build them on are not where the best money is made.

- Most big renters didn't raise anyone's rents during Covid, they couldn't evict anyone, they had big covid control costs, and no one was moving during Covid so they had no one coming in the door looking for apartments. Now that's all opening up so everyone is getting their rent renewed at big % increases.

- Big renters are not necessarily in a building/property long term, they're thinking about exiting the building all the time and balancing the operational return vs the capital return when they sell it.

Listening to NPR the other day and it was specifically about CA but applied to East coast high cost markets too.. all the controls always come from the demand side and usually ignore the supply side. CA's new proposed laws are finally an attempt to try and fix things from the supply side.

Around here there are certain classes of landlords/companies that are targeting affordable units in a different business model from the big players. If you're going for market you don't want affordable as it just reduces margins. Specializing in affordable seems to be about a more consistent/reliable lower margin setup.

Likes2ridefar 10-27-2021 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbill (Post 3002562)
Section 8 housing has created a shortage of available units for the folks that make decent salaries but either can't afford a house or aren't ready to buy. I hired a new-grad engineer at $65K and he had a hard time finding an apartment or house to rent because he "makes too much money." Landlords prefer Section 8 because it's guaranteed money.

For rental prices, I rented a house (one of two available) for the first two years after I relocated here from Texas. Last year I bought a nicer house on a bigger lot for five dollars less a month in mortgage than I was paying in rent.

It's also supply and demand, we're 45 minutes from California and seeing a huge influx of people leaving the republic.

Perhaps it is your area but section 8 seems almost nonexistent in Scottsdale. Rents have skyrocketed here, some of the highest in the country now, and where I live they increased it by 20% roughly since Covid became a thing….not saying that is why but that is when the increases began, about a year in. If they raise ours that much next year we are screwed and basically have nowhere to move in the area and will be forced to leave the state.

Clean39T 10-27-2021 09:59 AM

Greed.

And it’s not 0.5%. It’s at least 10% and often more like 20-30% in most west coast markets. Has the carrying cost on the underlying asset changed? Nope. If anything it’s gone down. But landlords can squeeze their renters harder, so that’s what they’re doing.

ORMojo 10-27-2021 10:26 AM

That 0.5% increase was over one month, so not 10%+ per month, but agree it is that much or more annually right now.

Oregon now has statewide rent control laws. Rent can not be increased during the first year of tenancy. Rent can not be increased without 90-day prior written notice served to the tenant. Rent can not be increased in any 12-month period by more than 7% plus the previous calendar year's increase in the CPI. That last part also applies to increasing rent when changing to a new tenant.

MikeD 10-27-2021 10:27 AM

I wonder if real estate is on a bubble. There's got to be a correction sooner or later, as past history has shown.

Clean39T 10-27-2021 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar (Post 3002583)
Perhaps it is your area but section 8 seems almost nonexistent in Scottsdale. Rents have skyrocketed here, some of the highest in the country now, and where I live they increased it by 20% roughly since Covid became a thing….not saying that is why but that is when the increases began, about a year in. If they raise ours that much next year we are screwed and basically have nowhere to move in the area and will be forced to leave the state.


$100-200/mon more is a rounding error to the landlord but may be the difference between having a place to live and being homeless, or not being able to feed your kids, for the working-class renter.

It’s the same for “transitory inflation” in food, gas, utility, and everything else costs.

The trajectory of this is not good.

Likes2ridefar 10-27-2021 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clean39T (Post 3002612)
$100-200/mon more is a rounding error to the landlord but may be the difference between having a place to live and being homeless, or not being able to feed your kids, for the working-class renter.

It’s the same for “transitory inflation” in food, gas, utility, and everything else costs.

The trajectory of this is not good.

Since we were burglarized over the summer and they were partially responsible the manager agreed to keep our rent the same this year. The exact same unit on the opposite side of the building just rented for $700 a month more than we pay.

We can afford it but I refuse to comply. Good excuse to move to Durango where we are now planning to retire after scoring some land in the area.

Clean39T 10-27-2021 10:45 AM

OT: Rent inflation - what's the cause?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ORMojo (Post 3002603)
That 0.5% increase was over one month, so not 10%+ per month, but agree it is that much or more annually right now.

Oregon now has statewide rent control laws. Rent can not be increased during the first year of tenancy. Rent can not be increased without 90-day prior written notice served to the tenant. Rent can not be increased in any 12-month period by more than 7% plus the previous calendar year's increase in the CPI. That last part also applies to increasing rent when changing to a new tenant.


There are loopholes/caveats. Our landlord tried to raise our rent 20% and because the home was built recently (2014) there was no protection. They paid ~$400k for the home in 2018 and were trying to get $3k/mon in rent out of it while refusing to do even basic safety-related maintenance. We move out Monday.

bigbill 10-27-2021 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clean39T (Post 3002621)
There are loopholes/caveats. Our landlord tried to raise our rent 20% and because the home was built recently (2014) there was no protection. They paid ~$400k for the home in 2018 and were trying to get $3k/mon in rent out of it while refusing to do even basic safety-related maintenance. We move out Monday.

Wow, I paid $2500/month on Oahu. My military housing allowance was $3200/month.

Ralph 10-27-2021 11:35 AM

Is there any trend of older people or boomers moving out of the homes they have owned a long time? Kids are gone, school districts don't matter any more, not concerned with commuting distance to jobs, etc. When I add up the cost of maintaining our home.....roofs, new driveway, plumbing, heat and AC units, RE taxes, homeowner insurance, landscape expenses, pool expenses, other maintenance, and the biggest of all....opportunity cost on a paid for house....I believe I could pay "a lot" in rent and be as well off or better off....and have all our money back. And if I want a RE investment....can do that easily in the securities markets....and not live in that investment. Is any of this thinking a factor in rents? Someone entity owning 10,000 houses definitely has lower costs maintaining per house than a person who only owns one. Are there significant economies of scale? I know a few wealthy people who own substantial real estate, but rent what they live in.

I recently took a tour of a so called luxury (it was nice) apartment complex...on site manager and 24 hour security...3/2 single story apt with attached 1 car garage, and I could rent 1-2 additional garages for $2500 or so...maybe $3000 with extra garages...no lawn expenses, minimal insurance expense, no pool expenses, no county taxes....no roofing driveway repair expenses, and if I took 3% annually plus savings of a non home owner .... from house sale proceeds....I think my life would be better. it's compelling to this 80 year old. I know people doing this now. And not especially rental price concerned. Have they driven up prices?

I guess what I'm asking some of you guys in the industry is....Is there a change in how people are viewing what they live in? Increasing the number of people who rent?

Likes2ridefar 10-27-2021 12:52 PM

Coincidentally was just at my LBS restocking on Assos and Rapha bibs when i overhead a customer bragging to the owner how much he’s been able to inflate his rental property rates the past year. Mentioned a studio from 1400 to 2000 and converted one to an Airbnb some person rents for 4500/m. Insane…

unterhausen 10-27-2021 12:56 PM

I have money in a REIT fund, I have wondered if some of this is my fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeD (Post 3002605)
I wonder if real estate is on a bubble. There's got to be a correction sooner or later, as past history has shown.

Sometimes I think that it doesn't matter much if the RE market corrects unless you way overpaid. Although it does seem like some of that is going on now. OTOH, my mom paid $150k for her house and we were lucky to get $65k out of it. There were perfectly serviceable houses down the street that were listed for $20k on zillow. Made me think of becoming a landlord. OTOH, I have seen that's a tough way to earn money.

ripvanrando 10-27-2021 01:16 PM

Son is graduating soon with offers in the 60-65K range, call it $5250 per month. The apartments are now renting for $2200-2500 in those areas whereas 2 years ago, they were renting for $1600-1700. Instead of 32% of income, the rent is 42% of income. Nuts. I am sure the hiring company thinks they are offering a good wage and it probably was pre-inflation policy errors of late. If I could do it, I would give him a gift to make a downpayment on a house but that would be a taxable income to him and house prices are also nuts. Good thing this inflation is merely a first class transitory bump in the road.

Ken Robb 10-27-2021 01:26 PM

An important motivator for renters to become buyers if they want to live in a single family home/townhome is security. Most of these structures that are available to rent are unlikely to stay rentals indefinitely so the tenants have to be prepared fo the possibility they will have to move at what may be an inconvenient time and will be a lot of trouble and expense.
The renters can also be sure over time the rent will continue to rise more than an owner's expenses will rise. Being an owner goes a long way to protecting people from these insecurities.

OTOH if a person is happy renting in an apartment complex he can be pretty sure his apartment home will remain a rental for a LONG time and while the rent will likely go up it will still be constrained by a competitive market. There have been situations where rental buildings have been converted to condominiums and tenants had to buy or move out but they usually got special pricing and plenty of notice to move or buy. Being a tenant certainly protects folks from a bill for a roof/replacement or other major expense that owners have to be prepared for.

ORMojo 10-27-2021 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripvanrando (Post 3002687)
If I could do it, I would give him a gift to make a downpayment on a house but that would be a taxable income to him and house prices are also nuts.

Generally, a parent gifting cash to a child does not result in the child owing tax on the gift. The parent(s) may owe tax, but it is unlikely until the gift(s) reach large amounts. First, each parent may gift $15,000 per year, for a total of $30k for both parents, with absolutely no tax or need to report the gifts. Second, when an annual gift from one parent exceeds $15k that parent must declare the gift on form 709, but then the lifetime exclusion kicks in. The lifetime exclusion currently excludes the first ~$11.7 million per parent from being taxed. In other words you would report a gift of, say, $50k on form 709, calculate the tax due on that gift after deducting the annual gift exclusion of $15k, and then claim part of your lifetime exclusion, in effect "paying down" your lifetime exclusion by $35k, and owe zero tax on the $50k gift.

Disclaimer: I am not a professional tax preparer.

bigbill 10-27-2021 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar (Post 3002583)
Perhaps it is your area but section 8 seems almost nonexistent in Scottsdale. Rents have skyrocketed here, some of the highest in the country now, and where I live they increased it by 20% roughly since Covid became a thing….not saying that is why but that is when the increases began, about a year in. If they raise ours that much next year we are screwed and basically have nowhere to move in the area and will be forced to leave the state.

Yours is likely the result of the number of people relocating to the PHX area. Phoenix metro is a top five growth area for the country, you're likely dealing with supply/demand and what people are willing to pay.

In Kingman, housing prices are up because of the influx of Californians and snowbirds. A large home with an acre lot and three car garage can still be had for <$500k. A person can sell their home in California and pay cash for a house here. Builders are capitalizing on it. I paid $245K last year for 1800, 3/2, half acre, and three car garage. Smaller houses on smaller lots are selling for $330K+.

benb 10-27-2021 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORMojo (Post 3002698)
Generally, a parent gifting cash to a child does not result in the child owing tax on the gift. The parent(s) may owe tax, but it is unlikely until the gift(s) reach large amounts. First, each parent may gift $15,000 per year, for a total of $30k for both parents, with absolutely no tax or need to report the gifts. Second, when an annual gift from one parent exceeds $15k that parent must declare the gift on form 709, but then the lifetime exclusion kicks in. The lifetime exclusion currently excludes the first ~$11.7 million per parent from being taxed. In other words you would report a gift of, say, $50k on form 709, calculate the tax due on that gift after deducting the annual gift exclusion of $15k, and then claim part of your lifetime exclusion, in effect "paying down" your lifetime exclusion by $35k, and owe zero tax on the $50k gift.

Disclaimer: I am not a professional tax preparer.

I bet it takes a good retirement/real estate lawyer about 5 minutes to find a trust setup to bust those limits down.

ORMojo 10-27-2021 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benb (Post 3002708)
I bet it takes a good retirement/real estate lawyer about 5 minutes to find a trust setup to bust those limits down.

Doesn't even require a lawyer . . . I've done it, and I'm not an attorney.

prototoast 10-27-2021 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benb (Post 3002708)
I bet it takes a good retirement/real estate lawyer about 5 minutes to find a trust setup to bust those limits down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/h...tax-free-2021/

pdonk 10-27-2021 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph (Post 3002650)
Is there any trend of older people or boomers moving out of the homes they have owned a long time?

SNIP

I guess what I'm asking some of you guys in the industry is....Is there a change in how people are viewing what they live in? Increasing the number of people who rent?

Everyone predicted that boomers downsizing would lead to stabilized prices and availability of family sized housing units, it has not happened to the degree necessary to keep the market in balance.

One of the issues is that not enough suitable smaller units are available in the same (sub)urban neighbourhoods at prices that make the move tenable.

Ask yourself, why would I sell my ground related house, that is likely free and clear except for TMI (that I choose if I am going to pay the M part) and move out of my community to a condo that that is smaller and costs the same as the selling price of the home I own, plus it has TMI of $1-1.75 sq ft. The financial don't always make sense.

If you move from your ground related home and rent, and invest the equity smartly, then you can be further ahead. This is especially true is a speculator heavy market like the GTA, where units tend to be cash flow negative, even with rents increasing.

Nomadmax 10-27-2021 04:07 PM

Rent Flation is sometimes caused by non home/property owners putting the oky doky on every school levy that comes up. When I was a landlord and taxes went up, RENT went up. Not just to cover for that property but also for the property I was living in as well.

cinema 10-27-2021 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORMojo (Post 3002710)
Doesn't even require a lawyer . . . I've done it, and I'm not an attorney.

same. no shame in it. wanting to pay more in tax is kind of like being insane; doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

johnniecakes 10-27-2021 07:48 PM

Why would we expect rent to not be going up? Inflation is affecting every other cost, not sure why rent would different. Landlords have expenses to cover so they raise their price. Lets hope the inflation starts to get under control for everything.

54ny77 10-27-2021 11:15 PM

i dunno, supply & demand?

mjb266 10-27-2021 11:39 PM

I work at a college, and one of my employees just told me he was just given notice that his 1 bedroom was going from $1050 to $1500. It's a property management company, and folks are profiteering at this point. That's not inflation, it's speculators snatching up everything they can find, and jacking the rents to squeeze out every penny possible.

If I were running the show, any residence owned beyond the one you reside in would be taxed at 100% of value every freaking year. Homes should not be a lucrative investment strategy subsidized by the federal government. They should be homes...

ripvanrando 10-28-2021 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnniecakes (Post 3002853)
Why would we expect rent to not be going up? Inflation is affecting every other cost, not sure why rent would different. Landlords have expenses to cover so they raise their price. Lets hope the inflation starts to get under control for everything.

Good point.

I was paying $1.59/gal for home heating oil when we were energy independent a year ago and I got my oil tanks filled two weeks ago, it was $3.09/gal. Almost everything we buy relies on the price of oil whether for transport or the actual manufacture of it. We rent an apartment that includes energy in the rent, we expect a big bump in January when the lease is up.

paredown 10-28-2021 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77 (Post 3002906)
i dunno, supply & demand?

That--and I expect substitution effect--people unhappy with where they are living, want a nicer place, but can't afford to buy because of the eye-watering jump in purchase prices.

COVID related--but more along the lines of 'if I have to spend another day in this place...'

I'd love to see some stats on whether these increases are across all price points...

merlinmurph 10-28-2021 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripvanrando (Post 3002920)
I was paying $1.59/gal for home heating oil when we were energy independent a year ago and I got my oil tanks filled two weeks ago, it was $3.09/gal.

Supply and demand - again.

A year ago, there was a huge glut of oil. Literally, we were running out of places to store it. Demand was way down because of COVID and the supply side hadn't adjusted. Hence, low prices. Now, the demand has skyrocketed with people driving again, planes flying again, etc. and OPEC hasn't changed supply. Hence, higher prices.

Nothing to do with the mythical energy independence.

ripvanrando 10-28-2021 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinmurph (Post 3002970)
Supply and demand - again.

A year ago, there was a huge glut of oil. Literally, we were running out of places to store it. Demand was way down because of COVID and the supply side hadn't adjusted. Hence, low prices. Now, the demand has skyrocketed with people driving again, planes flying again, etc. and OPEC hasn't changed supply. Hence, higher prices.

Nothing to do with the mythical energy independence.

Hogwash.

We went from a net exporter (glut of oil) to net importer of oil (begging Russia and Saudis).


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