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-   -   Just realized the irony of disc brakes on an aero bike. (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=234077)

zmalwo 02-09-2019 01:09 PM

Just realized the irony of disc brakes on an aero bike.
 
I rarely have these genius moments but this is for sure one of them. The whole purpose of an aero bike is to use them on flat stages where constant speed is high enough that the aero advantage of aero tubes offsets the weight penalty, and the purpose of disc brakes are to avoid overheating of carbon brake tracks on mountain stages where lots of braking take take place. If an aero bike is not used on mountain stage, then caliper brakes would offer better aero gain than disc brake, as well as reducing overall weight close to 6.8kg as aero bikes rarely make to that light. But since everything in the bike industry is about marketing and forced gear retirement, the manufactures probably don't want you to know this. One can argue that discs offer better braking in wet weather, but with recent year pads and brake track improvement I highly doubt discs even offer that much better braking performance.

zzy 02-09-2019 01:13 PM

Your underlying assumptions are incorrect. Even aero bikes have no problem hitting the UCI minimum. Well engineered aero frames with flatmount disc brakes have better aerodynamics than caliper brakes, depending on who you believe.

KonaSS 02-09-2019 01:14 PM

And better braking is better braking, applies to flat roads, wet weather, and downhills.

Mike V 02-09-2019 01:37 PM

"Better"

weisan 02-09-2019 01:51 PM

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7W7Etl_Vg1A/maxresdefault.jpg

Burnette 02-09-2019 02:06 PM

Ha!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zmalwo (Post 2498488)
I rarely have these genius moments but this is for sure one of them. The whole purpose of an aero bike is to use them on flat stages where constant speed is high enough that the aero advantage of aero tubes offsets the weight penalty, and the purpose of disc brakes are to avoid overheating of carbon brake tracks on mountain stages where lots of braking take take place. If an aero bike is not used on mountain stage, then caliper brakes would offer better aero gain than disc brake, as well as reducing overall weight close to 6.8kg as aero bikes rarely make to that light. But since everything in the bike industry is about marketing and forced gear retirement, the manufactures probably don't want you to know this. One can argue that discs offer better braking in wet weather, but with recent year pads and brake track improvement I highly doubt discs even offer that much better braking performance.

You, by yourself, have discovered what nobody in the whole world could. That you can sit on the couch and make stuff up to the point that you believe it true.

54ny77 02-09-2019 02:49 PM

just take a giant bong rip, turn on a hairdryer, and exhale while kneeling in front of bike with hair dryer pointing to rear of bike to see the aerodynamic drag.

then calculate the coefficient of friction as the square root of the thc content multiplied by the v02 max of the rider divided by the gear inches of the top gear configuration.

Jaybee 02-09-2019 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77 (Post 2498540)
just take a giant bong rip, turn on a hairdryer, and exhale while kneeling in front of bike with hair dryer pointing to rear of bike to see the aerodynamic drag.

then calculate the coefficient of friction is the square root of the thc content multiplied by the v02 max of the rider divided by the gear inches of the top gear configuration.

It's early, but this is a solid POTY candidate:beer:

XXtwindad 02-09-2019 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77 (Post 2498540)
just take a giant bong rip, turn on a hairdryer, and exhale while kneeling in front of bike with hair dryer pointing to rear of bike to see the aerodynamic drag.

then calculate the coefficient of friction as the square root of the thc content multiplied by the v02 max of the rider divided by the gear inches of the top gear configuration.

Damn this is funny.

Spdntrxi 02-09-2019 02:53 PM

you have a low bar for genius moments

Joxster 02-09-2019 03:07 PM

There was a minor faux pas from Mavic support during the tour last year. Dan Martin recieved a double wheel change at the start of a descent, he's running discs. after 10km of descending the team car comes up and does a bike change. Mainly because things were a bit iffy on the descent and he was running 160 rotors but Mavic gave him 140's

Burnette 02-09-2019 03:12 PM

I'm In
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zzy (Post 2498494)
Your underlying assumptions are incorrect. Even aero bikes have no problem hitting the UCI minimum. Well engineered aero frames with flatmount disc brakes have better aerodynamics than caliper brakes, depending on who you believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77 (Post 2498540)
just take a giant bong rip, turn on a hairdryer, and exhale while kneeling in front of bike with hair dryer pointing to rear of bike to see the aerodynamic drag.

then calculate the coefficient of friction as the square root of the thc content multiplied by the v02 max of the rider divided by the gear inches of the top gear configuration.

Finally, we're doing livingroom research again! I'll bring the Mountain Dew, Doritos and Oreos. Does anybody here have enough hair left that they actually have a hair dryer? If so, bring it.

54ny77 02-09-2019 03:16 PM

landis should lead the research effort.

maybe even come up with cbd chain oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette (Post 2498556)
Finally, we're doing livingroom research again! I'll bring the Mountain Dew, Doritos and Oreos. Does anybody here have enough hair left that they actually have a hair dryer? If so, bring it.


oldpotatoe 02-10-2019 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joxster (Post 2498550)
There was a minor faux pas from Mavic support during the tour last year. Dan Martin recieved a double wheel change at the start of a descent, he's running discs. after 10km of descending the team car comes up and does a bike change. Mainly because things were a bit iffy on the descent and he was running 160 rotors but Mavic gave him 140's

Hmmmm...I thought the UCI agreed on some sort of ‘standard’ that it would be 12mm TA front and back and 140mm rotors??

BTW, I worked on a tri bike for Drew Scott that had these really awful, integrated into the fork legs and underneath chain stays, blade type brakes that were, VERY aero. Had to be more aero than any caliper/rotor setup...only problem, they didn’t farming work!!!

R3awak3n 02-10-2019 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette (Post 2498523)
You, by yourself, have discovered what nobody in the whole world could. That you can sit on the couch and make stuff up to the point that you believe it true.

lol :hello:


I do like that this is not turning out to a disc sucks thread. Well done everyone

R3awak3n 02-10-2019 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77 (Post 2498558)
landis should lead the research effort.

maybe even come up with cbd chain oil.

dude, CBD chain oil! Seriously, you are into something here (but tbh Floyd probably already coming out with it)

Bentley 02-10-2019 07:37 AM

Huh??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weisan (Post 2498515)

Not understanding this

Burnette 02-10-2019 07:45 AM

Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley (Post 2498769)
Not understanding this

He's giving you visual proof that all modern bikes look better in the small size. And being short of stature myself, I approve of this message.

bikinchris 02-10-2019 08:16 AM

This comment makes me recall the time a guy told me disc wheels can't make sense in cross winds.

Burnette 02-10-2019 08:29 AM

Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bikinchris (Post 2498775)
This comment makes me recall the time a guy told me disc wheels can't make sense in cross winds.

Crosswinds are what the domestiques are for.

zmalwo 02-10-2019 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette (Post 2498771)
He's giving you visual proof that all modern bikes look better in the small size. And being short of stature myself, I approve of this message.

I think a medium size road bike with a 120mm+ stem and 75cm+ saddle height look the best personally.

Burnette 02-10-2019 08:47 AM

Who Wore It Better?
 
,
Quote:

Originally Posted by zmalwo (Post 2498781)
I think a medium size road bike with a 120mm+ stem and 75cm+ saddle height look the best personally.

Well, I'm way closer to the ground, so from my vantage point medium isn't optimal visualy.

zmalwo 02-10-2019 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette (Post 2498785)
,

Well, I'm way closer to the ground, so from my vantage point medium isn't optimal visualy.

Same here, I ride a 52cm I wish I was taller!

Mzilliox 02-10-2019 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmalwo (Post 2498781)
I think a medium size road bike with a 120mm+ stem and 75cm+ saddle height look the best personally.

me too, hey, i resemble that

Bentley 02-10-2019 09:34 AM

And...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette (Post 2498771)
He's giving you visual proof that all modern bikes look better in the small size. And being short of stature myself, I approve of this message.

What does this have to do with the OP???

Burnette 02-10-2019 09:49 AM

True
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley (Post 2498801)
What does this have to do with the OP???

About as much as this post does.

Burnette 02-10-2019 09:57 AM

Comfy In My Skin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zmalwo (Post 2498788)
Same here, I ride a 52cm I wish I was taller!

At my age I have become comfortable in my skin and in cycling it has actually been a bonus. In climbing and in aero in particular, my size has been a benefit.

I live in a hilly area and on big group charity rides, for kicks, on a 25 to 30 mph downhill run I would tuck as tight and low as possible and catch the draft of a group farther up the road, passing a long train very fast on my right.

bcroslin 02-10-2019 10:10 AM

disc hate, couch engineering, bong rips: this thread has everything!

:banana:

galgal 02-10-2019 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette (Post 2498806)
At my age I have become comfortable in my skin and in cycling it has actually been a bonus. In climbing and in aero in particular, my size has been a benefit.

I live in a hilly area and on big group charity rides, for kicks, on a 25 to 30 mph downhill run I would tuck as tight and low as possible and catch the draft of a group farther up the road, passing a long train very fast on my right.

Would it not be *relevant* to mention whether you were or were not using disks as you sped past the very long train on your right:)

Burnette 02-10-2019 10:20 AM

C'mon Over
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bcroslin (Post 2498809)
disc hate, couch engineering, bong rips: this thread has everything!

:banana:

Weisan is going to check his garage for some wood planks so we can do some sweet jumps. Ask your spouse if you can come over.

Burnette 02-10-2019 10:23 AM

Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by galgal (Post 2498811)
Would it not be *relevant* to mention whether you were or were not using disks as you sped past the very long train on your right:)

No, but I did leave out that my truck and my butt did look awesome.

rzthomas 02-10-2019 11:19 AM

Back on topic, disc brakes on TT bikes make sense because hydro hose can run through all sorts of complicated bends without impairing braking power or feel.

nickl 02-10-2019 02:50 PM

Dario Pegoretti
 
This quote has appeared many times on this and other forums and still rings true for many. Dario had a way to express himself quite succinctly, even with English as his second language.

'One of the main functions of disc brakes is to solve the problems of the carbon wheels manufacturers. Solve problems of the wheels is not my job.' --Dario Pegoretti

Mikej 02-10-2019 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnette (Post 2498523)
You, by yourself, have discovered what nobody in the whole world could. That you can sit on the couch and make stuff up to the point that you believe it true.

Hey, that’s how I balance my checkbook- so I can buy bike stuff. But lighten up an the op, we’ve all thought of something brilliant st dome point until it was typed out loud-

Hellgate 02-10-2019 08:00 PM

Harsh crowd...geez...

FlashUNC 02-10-2019 08:03 PM

https://media.giphy.com/media/tyttpH...R6dq/giphy.gif

Burnette 02-10-2019 08:12 PM

So True !
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikej (Post 2499058)
Hey, that’s how I balance my checkbook- so I can buy bike stuff. But lighten up an the op, we’ve all thought of something brilliant st dome point until it was typed out loud-

If you look a few posts up you see that the Op has a sense of humor too and we both see eye to eye because we're both short! :)

zmalwo 02-11-2019 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickl (Post 2498903)
This quote has appeared many times on this and other forums and still rings true for many. Dario had a way to express himself quite succinctly, even with English as his second language.

'One of the main functions of disc brakes is to solve the problems of the carbon wheels manufacturers. Solve problems of the wheels is not my job.' --Dario Pegoretti

Cannondale: "One of the main functions of threaded BBs is to maintain a problem free BB area. Adding additional weight to have a problem free threaded BB shell but look slightly heavier on my spec sheet is not my job."

Hawker 02-11-2019 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley (Post 2498769)
Not understanding this

I think he's suggesting that rider aerodynamics and frontal area mean much more than disc brakes on an aero bike. I'm the guy on the right and I love drafting the guy on the left. :)

nickl 02-11-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmalwo (Post 2499192)
Cannondale: "One of the main functions of threaded BBs is to maintain a problem free BB area. Adding additional weight to have a problem free threaded BB shell but look slightly heavier on my spec sheet is not my job."

Apples and oranges comparison. Obviously, Dario made a great deal more sense even though he never claimed to be articulate in English.

'One of the main functions of disc brakes is to solve the problems of the carbon wheels manufacturers. Solve problems of the wheels is not my job.' --Dario Pegoretti


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