OT: WaterRower or Concept2 Erg
 

Was planning to pick up a Concept2 erg to add some upper body work to my winter training, both of my local fitness stores are pushing the WaterRower.

All my research says the C2 is the one to get, including the discussions here but after trying out both machines side by side I am leaning to the WaterRower.

The WaterRower had more consistent resistance through the stroke, (the C2 felt dead at the top) almost silent, stands up against the wall when not in use, and looks like a nice piece of furniture (it will be in my living room)

Any rowers here that have experience with both machines, and why I should pick one over the other?

concept2.

there's a reason every single rowing program in the country uses them. if you're using it correctly, i suspect you won't put on that much upper body mass though.

concept2

if for no other reason than the after sales support. you can still buy parts for every model they made i think.

they are real tools designed for near constant use.

In times like this I think, "what would Frank Underwood choose"?

As can the C2, so that really shouldn't be an issue, unless you have super-low ceilings. For reference the C2's 8' long, and the WaterRower 6' 10.25" The C2 can be split in half (not super easy, but not hard either - no tools required). I'm not sure about the WaterRowers - some obviously can't be because the frame consists of long beams, but there seem to be other models that don't use a long beam. I can't tell how easy or hard it would be to take those apart.

Get the one you are most likely to use over time, as long as you recognize that for serious rowing a C2 is the way to go.

Finally, if you're into computer-based tools for real-time use or tracking of your performance, then there is zero doubt, C2 is the way to go.

(I have a Model C, but 99.9999% of my meters are on the Model E at the gym.)

Good Luck

Yup...



And yup.

Purchased my C2 Model C in 1998 and have used it almost daily ever since. Might be time to replace the rollers on the seat but even then I can still use it without issue.






William

Concept 2. Simplicity, reliability, everything the other posters have noted. Created by an Olympic rowing family, from scratch. It works and keeps working. The oars are great, too!

I just went through analysis paralysis and chose C2. Very happy.

Crewed for Temple while in college, and during the offseason we used Concept, hence my reason to buy one for home use. Bombproof. Cannot comment on the WaterRower as I've never used one.

As far as upper body, I agree with thegunner....you'll see more work on your core than anything. Of course, proper technique is key with any machine.

If it's good enough for Sir Bradley... :)

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp...7528787353.jpg

I’ve used both. I prefer the water rower. Just feels smoother in general. And I like the flow and resistance of the water tank. It’s also less noisy and the water sound is pleasing. Ymmv, but that’s my .02

Doesn’t the water tank require regular treatment?

Any videos you’d recommend to learn a proper technique for anyone using one at the gym this winter?

Believe it or not, the WaterRower is sold at MoMA Design Store: https://store.moma.org/home/health-r...43-110443.html.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowe...chnique-videos





William

Ditto, but at OSU and agree 100%. We had Model B's at the Boathouse and transitioned to C's. The coach let me take a Model A home for the summer to keep training on. Pulling a Model A is a bit of a trip and very noisy.






William

Check out Correct Rowing Technique on YouTube Concept2Australia. Great video with emphasis on the 11-1 o'clock position, the drive, finish, recovery, and slide.
Best I've seen.

The drive, imo, starting with the legs is key. Staying relaxed thru the slide is important as well.....allows the body to recover in anticipation for the next stroke.

Concept 2
 

I have one, it’s awesome. Complete body workout. Concept 2 is what real rowers use when they are not in the water. Water rower is an odd piece of equipment and does not give the same physical feedback that you get in a boat. More important, it’s bullet proof and parts are readily available

I've had a concept 2 for about 20 years. It is basically ignored during prime cycling season, but gets a decent amount of use in the winter. Works as well today as the day I bought it. It stores pretty compactly (takes about 30 seconds) obviously not as aesthetically pleasing as the water rower. I have tried the water rowers, and agree they likely feel more consistent through the stroke if you are really trying to emulate the full experience of rowing on water. But if you are trying to get a good reliable workout on a durable machine, I thing I'd go with the c2.

I'll talk to my son, if you want. He's caught the bug as a high school student -- pretty serious (finishing well at HS Nats, Club Nats, and Royal Canadian Henley), and into the minutiae. They have the C2s at his school, but he's probably up on the alternatives.

The WaterRower does indeed feel very natural, more like actually rowing. But I'd recommend the Concept for two reasons:

1. You can upgrade or repair it forever, and it holds its value for that reason like nobody's business. It almost doesn't make sense to buy used.

2. If you're interested in getting into rower competition, which is huge and a great way (like Strava) to compete against others, the competition is based on the C2.

I put some chlorine tabs in the water when I first got it. Been a year or so, water is still fine. The manual says the you may need to rechlorinate regularly. So far that hasn’t been my experience.

Your forum name and commenting style are well paired!

I tested this several (ten?) years ago. My wife and I were at an estate sale and noticed two old C2 machines out in the garage. One was a bit older than the other, but they were both intact. As you might imagine, they weren't attracting a ton of attention with the usual estate sale crowd. We piled them into the car and drove home. I don't recall where Ellen sat, but we had to fold down the rear seat and the front passenger seat to squeeze both in the car with the tailgate open.

I needed to buy a couple parts for one of them (can't remember what now), but it was no big deal. I wound up flipping both of them for a decent profit. (And you thought only bikes could be flipped. ;)) Kinda wish I'd kept one, but we've moved a couple times since, and moving all my bikes is difficult enough. I do use the C2 at the gym at work on occasion.

What has been said already is true. I have a model B that is over 25 years old and, just last year, bought new parts to make it feel new again. Plus, those parts are really inexpensive.

Tim

Bikes & Rowing: Model A
 

Note the original bike connection...







William

i've had both...while the waterrower is pretty, i constantly needed to tighten the bolts which was pretty annoying

i sold both and now i have a concept2 skierg which i find a lot more enjoyable

You ever have the privilege of using a Model A and have one of the resistance cards let go? That'll keep you on your toes.

Can't say enough good about C2 after 100's of thousands of K's on them in the 15 some years I was a competitive rower. Built like tanks. The Model C my folks bought for me as a HS rower in 1999 is still going strong with only minimal maintenance.

My rec - don't buy one new. Too many well looked after ones out there to justify full price. Look around for a local college or club program. They turn them over relatively quickly, not because of wear, but for the features. Get a new handle (for cleanliness reasons), give it an overall clean and oil the chain and you are good to go. I'm partial to the Model C because it was the most commonly used version in the meat of my rowing days. The D and E's have a slightly softer catch transition (think Sram vs. Shimano in shifter feedback) which I don't prefer, but it doesn't change functionality at all. The computer units on the later models are nicer than the original ones, though this is less important for general fitness needs.

If you want to step up your game - look at a dynamic version of the C2, a Rowperfect, or get a set of sliders for a standard C2. You get a lot more core engagement with a dynamic erg but they take a lot more practice to master.

College
 

Never had that happen, but it was loud enough with those cards that the neighbor downstairs would bang on the ceiling if I was rowing when he was home.:D






William

Ot
 

anyone else think this looks like a rip-off of a La Vie Claire jersey:
https://store.moma.org/home/vases/mo...24-122524.html

:cool:

Uh, the LVC jersey was inspired by Mondian’s paintings.;) They were quite open about that. My favoriate team kit to this day.

Tim

Well I guess that explains it! :beer:

I will join the parade of recommending the Concept 2. Like a few others, I started with a Model A, and am now on a Model C, which is getting a lot of use in my basement now that the weather is making it harder to get on the water. I have been rowing (sometimes at a relatively high level) since 1979 and remember when the brothers Dreissegacker invented the modern rowing maching. They changed everything. Nowafays the Concept 2 is literally used worldwide. It's only significant competition is teh RowPerfect, which some teams seem to prefer due to it supposedly having a feel that is more like the boat. I don't buy the physics argument that a RowPerfect is easier on your back but I also haven't rowed one.

I have rowed a water rower, and while I think it is a nice enough machine and a nice to look at, I don't think it is in the same league as a piece of training equipment as a Concept 2 or RowPerfect. Plus teh C2 is significantly less expensive, and as noted, has amazing customer service.

Finally, the OP mentioned he wanted to use the rowing machine to improve upper body strength. Just a reminder that Olympic style sliding seat rowing is a full body, highly aerobic, exercise that translates well to cycling, but isn't an effective way to bulk up your upper body.


CaptStash....

I had a Model B for years and now use a Model D.

Now that I'm north of 50 my back occasionally feels weird after rowing workouts and I'm very leery of hurting myself. I've heard that dynamic ergs are easier on the back but I've never had the opportunity to use one. I'm intrigued however.

My old college rowing program is looking to replace all of their C2s with RowPerfects, but the RP3s are over 3x the price of the C2, so that is going to take some time. The cost of the RP3 will probably allow C2 to dominate the the market for competitive rowing programs pretty much indefinitely. I tried an RP3 and didn’t think that it was as smooth as the C2, so go figure. I have a C2 Dynamic erg, which is sort of a poor-man’s RP3. It feels much more like being in a boat than the standard erg, but I think C2 tries to screen who buys them—they don’t want people who’ve never rowed buying them just because they take up less space than a standard erg.

To LegendRider, the Dynamic erg is definitely easier on the back—the catch is not as heavy, and you aren’t moving your body mass back and forth.

To the OP, if having something that doesn’t look like a piece of commercial exercise equipment in your living room is of primary importance, then get the water rower. Otherwise, the C2 erg is the way to go for all of the reasons described above.

I've used dynamic ergs a few times but never as a consistent part of my training plan. You get a lot more core involvement. From a boat feel perspective they are invaluable and a great way to teach novices to "draw your feet to you" instead of slamming into the catch. Also less of your energy is used to move your own mass, just the mass of the machine which is much smaller - again akin to real rowing where you are really drawing the boat forward underneath you than yourself to the stretcher.

For people with poor technique, I think that extra intertia from your center of mass moving and the force needed to overcome it and start moving it in the opposite direction could translate to decreased back pain. Lots of novices slam into the catch and load the backs improperly at the catch. I cringe when I see a bent "C" at the catch.... Dynamic or not, you still have to load the back and use it as a lever for transmission of the leg drive, but the transition and inertia are much different. A dynamic erg also provides more immediate feedback when you are doing it wrong.

^^This. They are much harder to get right. I would never put someone without a good bit of experience on a dynamic erg. A benefit is it is easier to hit higher stroke rates and for long pieces fatigue goes down from the reduced inertial changes. So your times are often faster on a dynamic compared to stationary erg all other things equal. Neither of those is of much value to a non-rower though.

Evocative of the French Revolution...

https://store.moma.org/dw/image/v2/B...&sh=626&sm=cut

Thanks for all the replies, ended up going with a C2 model D.

Congratulations - it's the better machine, and you won't regret it.

You've probably already seen it, but in case you haven't there's a C2 forum that's useful for any questions you might have: (although C2 themselves are super-helpful)

https://www.c2forum.com/