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-   -   Serial Numbers Decoded (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=99078)

oliver1850 03-04-2015 08:44 PM

Looking at the 1992 catalog, the Colorado II and TG were available in "XL Road Geometry". Your frame should have a 58.5 cm top tube. All other dimensions were the same as the standard 57 cm CII, and the L model.

SC57 = 56 cm TT
SC57L = 57 cm TT
SC57X = 58.5 TT

If original, I'd guess your CII is a 1992 from the pearl white paint - but since you don't have the TT model decal it may be a repaint. Pearl white was the color used for the 20th anniversary models. Does yours have a "20" on the fork crown? Other cues for a 1992 frame are a full lug at the TT/HT joint, lugged (vs. fillet) BB shell, and S bend stays. My guess is your frame is a 1992 CII, but not one of the anniversary models, unless it has the "20" on the fork crown.

It would be nice to have the rest of the serial number to help date other 1992 CIIs. Thanks.

thebudge 03-11-2015 11:31 AM

Hi there,

thanks for the really helpful info. As I suspected the X may have referred to size (i.e. extra long) - the top tube is indeed an annoyingly long 58.5cm

The full serial no. is: 3329

It doesn't seem to be a respray, but I could be wrong.

There is no reference to '20' or an anniversary edition. The fork crown has the Serotta S and Colorado written in scriptive

Correct on the lugs and s-bend stays

All seems to suggest a 1992, but not 20th Anniversary

Happy to provide more photos, including of decals if useful (decals include Colorado Serotta Design CC label top of seat tube; est. 1972 on down tube at BB; Made in USA for World Champions with S logo in U.S. flag colours, and WC bands on seat tube at BB)

oliver1850 03-11-2015 11:47 PM

I'm surprised that the serial number is so high. My CII is in the 350 range. They were only made from 1989-1992, so yours must surely be one of the last.

It's always nice to see details of the frames. Other than what's been mentioned already, I'd like to see the chainstay bridge. I'm still trying to pin down when it changed from a round tube to a web.

As to whether the paint is original or not, it's really hard to say. Someone might have ordered white but not an anniversary model. The anniversary models had red decals, and the one on the cover of the catalog has Ben's signature where the CII decal would normally be. Yours may not have either because it's not an anniversary and the decals my have been a custom color.

Black Dog 03-14-2015 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1722968)
I'm surprised that the serial number is so high. My CII is in the 350 range. They were only made from 1989-1992, so yours must surely be one of the last.

It's always nice to see details of the frames. Other than what's been mentioned already, I'd like to see the chainstay bridge. I'm still trying to pin down when it changed from a round tube to a web.

As to whether the paint is original or not, it's really hard to say. Someone might have ordered white but not an anniversary model. The anniversary models had red decals, and the one on the cover of the catalog has Ben's signature where the CII decal would normally be. Yours may not have either because it's not an anniversary and the decals my have been a custom color.

My 1991 CII has a web bridge.

thebudge 03-15-2015 11:21 AM

Thanks for all the info. Some additional photos with detail - hope they are useful. Sadly the previous owner neglected the bike, so the paintwork has suffered, and there are some small patches of corrosion on the headtube and right chainstay

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4869.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4867.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4865.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4864.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4860.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4859.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4858.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSCF4856.jpg

oliver1850 03-24-2015 02:00 PM

Thanks Daryl for the CS bridge info.

Get those rusty spots touched up so they don't get worse. Paint really looks pretty good considering the age.

Jeff N. 04-06-2015 03:37 PM

What would CL1 61 613 mean? What year of production? -Jeff N.

dave thompson 04-06-2015 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff N. (Post 1736749)
What would CL1 61 613 mean? What year of production? -Jeff N.

Custom Ottrott, size 61, 613th Ottrott made. No year of manufacture coded in Serotta's serial numbers.

oliver1850 04-12-2015 12:40 PM

Just to clarify, it's CLI, not CL1.

sipmeister 04-14-2015 03:38 PM

Serotta Nova Special X
 
Hello, I'm a new member and have been reading as much about Serotta Nova Special X as possible on this forum. Lots of helpful and interesting information. However, I still have a few questions.

I recently acquired through my favorite website (eBay) a Serotta Nova Special X with complete Dura Ace 7402 which looks like the original group. I'm in the process of changing out the seat, stem and crankset (stem and crank to be longer than what came on the bike). From what I can tell, the bike is in great shape, no rust and no dents. The color is some kind of pearl with yellow/orange/red decals. Measurements are: HT Length: 14.4 cm. TT: 55 c-t-c. ST: 56 c-t-c.

The chain stays are slightly shaped, not straight.

The serial number is: SL560071. Based on your serial number decoder, this means it's actually a Nova Special, not X. Is this correct? I have a hunch it was possibly professionally repainted at some point. You can see the initials "JB" on the left seat stay near BB in matching yellow decal paint. The lettering style used looks like Joe Bell. Is this correct as well? I haven't checked the base of the seat tube, but head tube has rifling in it.

So in a nutshell: Is this a 1990 or '91 Nova Special or NSX, and was it in fact repainted at some point? I tried uploading some pictures but got a 'failed upload' message. Here is a link to where I posted pictures on Flickr. The pearl/white bike is the bike in question. Thanks to all for help and comments.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ser...%20special%20x

oliver1850 04-20-2015 10:54 PM

Looks like you have a Joe Bell repainted 1990 Nova Special. Hard to say why the "X" decal was used, may have been what the customer wanted. SL in the serial number indicates Columbus SL tubing, SN would be SLX (Nova Special X). I have Nova Special SL58 090, one of my favorite bikes. I also have a Nova Special X and an NHX for comparison.

regularguy412 04-22-2015 08:11 PM

Recently purchased Serotta Fondo Ti -- FG B0248

I bought this from a forumite associated with a shop. GREAT bike, btw. It was originally purchased by another company in the 'fire sale' that occurred during the closing of the Serotta factory/business. I'm assuming this frame was built sometime in 2013.

Mike in AR:beer:

Ecobeard 05-12-2015 04:56 AM

Help IDing this frame
 
Good morning all

I've had this frame for about 3 years now and I have absolutely loved riding it. I bought it off a clubmate who had imported it from the U.S. 5 or so years previously. He bought it as a Serotta Legend Ti and I've always assumed it was.

My curiosity was picqued by this thread so I thought I'd find out a bit more about it and in doing my research here, I'm not sure it is a Serotta after all!

I don't mind what the frame is, but I would like to know who built it and find out what it's story is.

The album for the bike is here -

https://www.flickr.com/gp/96979340@N04/eo02P5

The measurements are -

1" steerer
HT - 19cm
TT - 60.5cm
ST - 62cm

All measurements are CTT.

The serial number is I1307 and its stamped on the bottom of the drive side drop out.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Rob

dave thompson 05-12-2015 08:13 AM

Rob, I can't help you identify your frame but I can say conclusively it's not a Serotta. Serotta used seat post clamps rather than welded-on ears on their Ti bikes. They used very different rear drop outs and their rear brake bridge has the Serotta S stamped on it.

Ecobeard 05-12-2015 09:31 AM

Thanks Dave - that's what I feared.

Anyone have even the beginning of a clue what it could be?

oliver1850 05-12-2015 06:53 PM

I couldn't tell much from the images. I would start by looking at details of known examples from Litespeed, Merlin, TiSports (Dean, Sampson, etc.). Look at the dropouts and how the stays are joined to them. That seatpost bolt may be another clue.

You might do some gazing here:

http://www.tirides.com/wp/category/frames/

Ecobeard 05-13-2015 01:53 AM

Will do, many thanks.

Jeff N. 05-13-2015 08:07 AM

[QUOTE=Ecobeard;1755568]Thanks Dave - that's what I feared.

Anyone have even the beginning of a clue what it could be?[/QUOTE What D.T. said, plus the welds are too uniform to be a Serotta. I'm thinking it's an earlier Merlin.

Ecobeard 05-13-2015 04:40 PM

Litespeed got back to me to confirm is wasn't one of theirs, due to the serial number placement.

oliver1850 05-13-2015 09:09 PM

You might try to find someone with an Airborne and compare details. They sold quite a few frames in the US, but I don't know how common they are in the UK.

Ecobeard 05-14-2015 06:35 AM

Cheers

Tom Kellogg has confirmed its not one of his and has pointed me in the direction of Ti Cycles.

Ecobeard 05-14-2015 02:33 PM

I've just had it confirmed by David a Levy that my frame is a Clark Kent.

Apologies for spamming your Serotta thread.

Thanks for the help.

Cheers

Rob

Keith A 05-14-2015 02:39 PM

Glad to hear that you got it sorted out.

bocobiking 05-21-2015 08:53 PM

Does anyone know when Serotta began using head badges as opposed to head decals? Thanks.

oliver1850 05-29-2015 10:51 AM

I couldn't find a head badge in the catalogs until 2001. They were shown on CSI and Legend that year, all other models (including somewhat oddly, the top-of-the-line Hors Categorie) are shown with decals. My 1997 Legend has a badge, but I suspect someone added it later.

bocobiking 05-29-2015 11:30 AM

Thanks.

oliver1850 06-02-2015 11:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
There's a purple Ti (circa 1996) on ebay that also has a head badge. Again, could have been added later.

On another topic, I think I've finally figured out the early 1980s serial number system for sure. 1983 Club Special, serial number 83732. This settles the question as to whether the numbers after the year (83 in this case) were running numbers or running numbers for a given month. All the others I'd seen from this period could have been either, but since there are only 31 days in July, it seems that this would have been the 732nd frame made in 1983.

bocobiking 06-17-2015 05:57 PM

My Legend's serial number is CTI 63 5037. I understand that the 5037 is a production number. Does it mean that my frame was the five thousand thirty-seventh Legend ever produced? Or is it the five thousand thirty-seventh Legend produced in a given year (which seems like a lot of frames for one year). If indeed it's the former, is there anyway of approximating the year this frame was made? Thanks.

oliver1850 06-22-2015 04:30 PM

5037 sounds like a lot of Legends period, but yes that's through the whole range of model years. Yours is a custom. They did make quite a few per year. I think I have a 1994 (2nd year) that's in the mid 800 range.

We have a CSI serial number log somewhere but have not done one for Legends. Best way to date without knowing someone who has one with a near number (who bought it new and is sure of the year) is by frame details and paint. Some colors and decal colors came and went quickly. But I'm guessing yours is well up in the 2000s with a serial number that high.

bocobiking 06-23-2015 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1777358)
5037 sounds like a lot of Legends period, but yes that's through the whole range of model years. Yours is a custom. They did make quite a few per year. I think I have a 1994 (2nd year) that's in the mid 800 range.

We have a CSI serial number log somewhere but have not done one for Legends. Best way to date without knowing someone who has one with a near number (who bought it new and is sure of the year) is by frame details and paint. Some colors and decal colors came and went quickly. But I'm guessing yours is well up in the 2000s with a serial number that high.


Thanks. That's kind of what I was guessing for my frame's age. Maybe I'll post on the general forum a request for Legend owners who have both a serial number and a date.

bjf 06-26-2015 09:32 PM

Le/ls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1712841)
I don't know this for certain but my best guess is that LE is the code for a Legend ST, which is a Legend with a carbon seat stay. CLE would be a custom.

2003 was the first year for the Legend ST. If your bike has the carbon stay, I'd say you have a 2003 Legend ST since they likely made at least 24 in the first year of production.

Let us know if you do have the ST stay so we can be sure of the LE code.

thanks

I gather from the list at the beginning of this thread that you eventually concluded that LE stands for a Legend with GS tubing. I don't see LS on the list, but from another post somewhere in this thread I suspect that LS stands for Legend ST, that is the Legend with the ST carbon stays. I'm working on one right now -- CLS 56 148. Can't wait to get it built.

oliver1850 06-30-2015 02:32 PM

Thanks for the clarification. We really need to get the list updated and put in alphabetical order.

oliver1850 07-27-2015 12:46 PM

Circa 2006 Coeur d'Acier CS (with carbon stay) = CD.

Dallez 09-06-2015 08:19 PM

I acquired a 1991 Colorado II from the original owner this Spring. The paint is (fluorescent) Magenta / Orange fade and the Serial number is:

SC 54 2735

Jaypkk 09-11-2015 11:20 AM

Fierte Titanium 56 Confusion
 
1 Attachment(s)
I am puzzling over the geometry of a circa 2005 Fierte Ti frame I am about to sell. It is stamped FT 56 595 underneath the bottom bracket which I understand from this thread means Fierte Titanium, size 56 cm, the 595th such bike to be built. It was purchased in Denver at Turin in 2005.

What's puzzling me is that I cannot match the measured dimensions, even allowing for approximations, with any stock frame measurements from the era. I measured the bike as follows:
Top tube: 53
Seat tube: 54
Head tube: 19
Chain stay: 42 (might be 41.5)

When I go back through the web archives, such as this, I cannot find anything that matches up, especially the massive head tube and relatively short top tube. I'm measured from all the correct center points as far as I know. I can post images if that's useful, but I'm hoping someone here can point me in the correct direction. By the way, I should say that this particular geometry resulted in a very comfortable ride whose only drawback was a slight amount of toe overlap (not surprising given the relatively short top tube): great for long, all day rides on less than smooth surfaces. Thanks in advance for anything you've got.

Keith A 09-11-2015 03:13 PM

Jaypkk -- I'm pretty sure that there were some Fierte's that had custom geometry, which would explain why this doesn't match the stock geometry for the Fierte.

bouddha 09-23-2015 02:41 AM

Hi All,
Can anyone help me trying to decode " CTI 55 4053 " ?
No decal on the frame ( with a compact geometry) .

Is it a Legend or a Colorado ?
Any idea of the date of manufacturing ?

Thanks in advance.

Keith A 09-23-2015 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouddha (Post 1829334)
Hi All,
Can anyone help me trying to decode " CTI 55 4053 " ?
No decal on the frame ( with a compact geometry) .

Is it a Legend or a Colorado ?
Any idea of the date of manufacturing ?

Thanks in advance.

From what I have seen from other posts, CTI is a Legend ,55 is the frame size and 4053 is the production number. You'd have to look at other folks posts of CTI to try and figure out about what year this was built.

texas 10-09-2015 09:21 AM

Help; Serotta CSi year?
 
I have a Serotta serial# CS 57L 761

It is a CSi 57 long however is there any way to decipher the year of production?

Thanks!

Keith A 10-09-2015 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texas (Post 1839169)
I have a Serotta serial# CS 57L 761

It is a CSi 57 long however is there any way to decipher the year of production?

Thanks!

Not exactly, the 761 is the production number. Based on what other folks have posted, yours is mostly likely a '96 or '97. You can check this thread to see the serial numbers and year of production that other people have...
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=65712


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