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-   -   Serial Numbers Decoded (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=99078)

AngryScientist 11-05-2011 07:17 AM

Serial Numbers Decoded
 
I'm starting this thread with Keith's blessing. I'm pulling the info from what I know and other threads on the topic. A lot of this info came from oliver1850, who has a wealth of Serotta knowledge. PLEASE HELP!!, i'll update the front post as i get input from you experts!

__________________________________________________ __


The modern system started with the 1990 models, I believe. Mid to late 1980s bikes used all numbers, with production year the first digit in the code. I'm not sure how far back that system was used. The very early bikes had Ben's initials included.

the modern serial number system is:

aa bb xxx - aa=model / bb=frame size / xxx= production number

aa codes:

TX - Colorado TG
AS - Atlanta
SC - Colorado II, most likely other Colorados as well
SL - Nova Special
SN - Nova Special X and NHX
CT - Concours Ti
LI - at least some Ottrotts
CS - CSI
CO – CIII
HC - Hors
TI - Legend Ti as mentioned but also earlier Colorado Ti
TC - Colorado LT
CL - CRL
RD = Research & Development
LI - early Ottrott (Legend Integrated)
HI - early Ottrott DKS (Hors Integrated)
CC - Custom Colorado II through CRL through early CSi (I think)
FE - Fierte IT
FI - Fierte (steel)
FC - Fierte Carbon
FT - Fierte Ti
HB - HSG in carbon
SP - HSG in Ti
LE - Legend Ti GS tubing
OS - Ottrott ST
AX - ATX
SD - Davis Phinney Model
TS - Colorado Soft Tail MTB....or
CT-S - Colorado Soft Tail MTB
AT - Colorado Legend AT
BS - Ben Serotta Special?
ST - Classique Ti.
TL - Colorado Legend TG
RI - Rapid Tour (ti)

Any of these codes preceded by a C means it's a custom frame. The exception to this seems to be early Colorados, which if stock were CC. So SC evidently means Standard or Stock Colorado

Smiley 11-05-2011 07:53 AM

Hey Angry,
The Legend Ti you bought from me actually my wife's was a wedding present from me to her. We did Seagull Century Oct 1998 and she demo'd a Legend Ti frame in a stock 50 cm that year. I went ahead and ordered shortly after that ride this frame. Serotta only made a Legend Ti frame then so no mistaking it with differnt letters after the name. I am sure it was built in very late 98 or early 99. Enjoy and many happy miles. Smiley

BTWwe married in Sept 1998 and postponed our honeymoon til after Seagull since I was the Serotta rep at the time and I THINK Ben Serotta was scheduled to appear with us for that event hence the reason why we put off going to Aruba til after this event.

AngryScientist 11-05-2011 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiley
Hey Angry,
The Legend Ti you bought from me actually my wife's was a wedding present from me to her. We did Seagull Century Oct 1998 and she demo'd a Legend Ti frame in a stock 50 cm that year. I went ahead and ordered shortly after that ride this frame. Serotta only made a Legend Ti frame then so no mistaking it with differnt letters after the name. I am sure it was built in very late 98 or early 99. Enjoy and many happy miles. Smiley

BTWwe married in Sept 1998 and postponed our honeymoon til after Seagull since I was the Serotta rep at the time and I THINK Ben Serotta was scheduled to appear with us for that event hence the reason why we put off going to Aruba til after this event.

cool story Smiley, what a great wedding present too. rest assured - it's in good hands :D

oliver1850 11-05-2011 01:39 PM

Atx
 
My ATX is a 1996 I think. Serial number starts with AX

ergott 11-05-2011 02:09 PM

Mine's C-OS-53-003XX
C for custom
OS for Ottrott ST
53 for size
then five digit number 003XX

This was 2004

Keith A 11-05-2011 03:16 PM

Thanks to the mad scientist for pulling this together!!!

oliver1850 11-05-2011 03:19 PM

If anyone knows of someone with a model not listed, please prod him/her to post the serial code.

Cinci Jim 11-05-2011 03:37 PM

HSGs & Legend Ti GS
 
HB = HSG in carbon

SP = HSG in Ti

LE = Legend Ti GS tubing

Andrewlcox 11-05-2011 08:15 PM

My new Serotta

Serial #

CCO 59 1984

Of course its custom with a 53cm TT but what do you make of the 1984?

It has a paint scheme from the 2007 catalog.

Andy

oliver1850 11-05-2011 10:14 PM

Andy, I wondered what your bike was, looks like it's a Colorado III. The 1984 indicates that there were 1983 CIIIs built previously, I believe. I think that 2005 was the last year for the CIII.

deechee 11-06-2011 07:36 AM

My steel 650c CXII has C2 50P ### -why the P?
My gf's Coeur D'acier has CD X00 ### -X00 size?

oliver1850 11-06-2011 09:50 AM

I don't know a lot about the newer frames, and there are a lot of them. The CXII was made in steel and Ti, and the steel ones at least could be had with or without the CS carbon stays. I don't know if they built an all Ti CXII or not. There was a 650 wheel option on the all steel CXII. Perhaps the P has something to do with one of these options.

I really don't have a guess on the XOO size designation. Customs usually have the extra C at the start, then a number code indicating seat tube size. Is there anything unusual about the bike?

deechee 11-06-2011 05:51 PM

Ah, the CXII is a 650c frame, steel rear triangle, the Coeur D'acier might have some larger tubing for my gf (she's a bit ... curvy)

yarg 11-10-2011 06:37 PM

1997 legend ti

??-55L-00459

1st two letters are so lightly stamped I can't tell what they are.

Non custom but the L stand for long - top tube is 55.5
Edit/Delete Message

AngryScientist 12-16-2011 01:15 PM

i'm copying this info in from RedRider, for information:

Quote:

CL indicates a Classique, the other numbers correspond to the Serotta sales order. X indicates 2010, X1 would indicate 2011.

FlashUNC 12-18-2011 08:48 AM

Here's one for the guide, welcome anyone's thoughts on this one.

EM 58 001

I've traded PMs a bit with Mr. Kirk about some of the details about the frame, but I think some insight on the EM designation would be cool.

oliver1850 12-19-2011 02:45 PM

Joe, it would be interesting to see the frame. Obviously the 1st of that model; perhaps a model that didn't make it into production? The way the list has come about is by people knowing what they have and supplying the codes that correspond. Sometimes you can find a serial number in an old Gallery thread that helps. Perhaps someone has posted an EM serial number somewhere. If you have some guesses about what model it might be, you can search for those models and "serial". You might get lucky that way. I'll help search, but need more info than just EM to get started.

Otherwise start an ID thread on the bike in General Discussion, where more people will see it. Have good pics of all the details: lugs, BB shell, dropouts, seat cluster, fork, and tubing measurements.

I'm looking forward to seeing it.

FlashUNC 12-19-2011 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850
Joe, it would be interesting to see the frame. Obviously the 1st of that model; perhaps a model that didn't make it into production? The way the list has come about is by people knowing what they have and supplying the codes that correspond. Sometimes you can find a serial number in an old Gallery thread that helps. Perhaps someone has posted an EM serial number somewhere. If you have some guesses about what model it might be, you can search for those models and "serial". You might get lucky that way. I'll help search, but need more info than just EM to get started.

Otherwise start an ID thread on the bike in General Discussion, where more people will see it. Have good pics of all the details: lugs, BB shell, dropouts, seat cluster, fork, and tubing measurements.

I'm looking forward to seeing it.


Good idea. I'll post a bit more about the frame there. From what Mr. Kirk and Liberace told me when I purchased the frame from him, it was something of a one-off. Reynolds 753 tubes, Henry James lugs from the mid-90s. Unsure if the EM is something of a internal designation for a test model, or bike built for employees or what. But from all the Googling I've done, I haven't seen any Reynolds 753 that made it into production at Serotta.

oliver1850 12-19-2011 08:07 PM

EM = experimental model or employee model? Could be. Recently saw a Serotta on ebay listed by a former Serotta office employee. Was claimed to have been built for another employee and that it had no serial number whatsoever. Person listing the bike obviously had very little bike knowldege, so there's no telling whether that information was accurate or not.

lemania 12-20-2011 05:28 AM

My Serotta Davis Phinney model starts with SD .

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=82001

oliver1850 12-20-2011 11:40 AM

How 'bout some pics of the Phinney?

David Kirk 12-20-2011 11:56 AM

I can say with some certainty that there was never a model that had a serial number starting with 'EM'.

I'm pretty sure the bike in question was a one off, built off the clock, for Scott Paine who was the head machinist. I shouldn't say that I built it for him....I brazed it for him and Scotty did the rest of the work himself. He is very skilled but wanted someone else to braze the 753 as he'd never done it and I was certified in 753.

There was never a real model made with 753 and only a few of us made them for ourselves but even those were never official projects. Serotta at that time had a good number of skilled riders (Scotty included - he's beautiful on the bike) and we always wanted to make stuff for ourselves and the company was good about letting us do that. Everyone learned a lot this way and the cost to the company was very small.

I had bikes myself that were made with all kinds of tubes over the years - Colorado 853, 708, Tange Prestige, 753 and a number that I can't remember. most of these never got an official serial number. A few did as the CEO at the time was worried about liability issues should these bikes change hands and fail and hurt someone so I do recall that he required some number be put on them for easy ID. Maybe that's where the 'EM' number came from. I never personally stamped a bike with EM and most of my bikes had no number at all.

Fun stuff to remember.

dave

FlashUNC 12-21-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Kirk
I can say with some certainty that there was never a model that had a serial number starting with 'EM'.

I'm pretty sure the bike in question was a one off, built off the clock, for Scott Paine who was the head machinist. I shouldn't say that I built it for him....I brazed it for him and Scotty did the rest of the work himself. He is very skilled but wanted someone else to braze the 753 as he'd never done it and I was certified in 753.

There was never a real model made with 753 and only a few of us made them for ourselves but even those were never official projects. Serotta at that time had a good number of skilled riders (Scotty included - he's beautiful on the bike) and we always wanted to make stuff for ourselves and the company was good about letting us do that. Everyone learned a lot this way and the cost to the company was very small.

I had bikes myself that were made with all kinds of tubes over the years - Colorado 853, 708, Tange Prestige, 753 and a number that I can't remember. most of these never got an official serial number. A few did as the CEO at the time was worried about liability issues should these bikes change hands and fail and hurt someone so I do recall that he required some number be put on them for easy ID. Maybe that's where the 'EM' number came from. I never personally stamped a bike with EM and most of my bikes had no number at all.

Fun stuff to remember.

dave

Unless Scott is lurking about and has some memories about it, I'd opt for just declaring the EM in the serial number as an homage to Eddy Merckx.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this little mini-mystery Dave.

KF9YR 12-25-2011 10:44 PM

Colorado Soft Tail MTB

TS 19 006

Gat64 01-06-2012 11:39 AM

My CST (Colorado Soft Tail) has the following: CT-S-18-140

I believe it was one of the last ones built.

oliver1850 01-16-2012 01:57 PM

1993 Colorado Legend AT: code is AT

1991 Davis Phinney (see blilrat's thread in Serotta Gallery): code is SD

cnw20 01-19-2012 10:49 AM

I have a 2010 Classique Ti serial # CL X00959 - does CL denote custom? Thanks.

oliver1850 01-21-2012 01:01 AM

I think your bike is a ready custom, which is a standard geometry.

If it was a built to order geometry, it would be CCL.

cnw20 01-24-2012 12:11 PM

Thanks, I was hoping to hear that

lew plummer 02-10-2012 02:56 PM

Really Early Custom Frame
 
I am assembling a 1975 Serotta Special BS178. This confirmed by Ben as genuine. I am looking for examples of badge placment in those early years.

oliver1850 02-12-2012 11:22 PM

lew, take a look at this scan of an old brochure:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=82643

lew plummer 02-13-2012 02:24 PM

Thanks
 
This will help!

Lew

fatallightning 02-16-2012 08:28 PM

I have an 01 or whereabouts Classique Ti.

ST 54 538

AngryScientist 02-22-2012 07:50 AM

updated the front page with some of the info gathered here. :beer:

bsmitham 03-16-2012 05:59 PM

Serial Numbers Decoded
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850
If anyone knows of someone with a model not listed, please prod him/her to post the serial code.

I just purchased a Serotta Fierte Ti with the codes FT 58- 167

I know the FT= Fierte Ti and 58 is the size but I can't figure out what year model it is? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

dave thompson 03-16-2012 09:17 PM

There's not been a year code in Serotta's serial numbers since the late 80s. Your bike was the 167th Fierte Ti built, which maybe means first year production.

bsmitham 03-16-2012 09:52 PM

Wow, why would they make it so difficult to find out what year my bike was built! I've estimated either a 2003 or 2004 model from all the old catalogs posted on this forum (which was helpful). I tried asking Serotta but they have been very unhelpful. I don't understand the logic of not providing that info. It almost makes me want to sell it before I've even ridden it! Thanks for the help.

a4racer 04-24-2012 11:49 AM

Hmm...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryScientist (Post 1046463)
i'm copying this info in from RedRider, for information:

Just got a Classique Ti from Nooch...the serial is CL X00 504

Presumably then, Classique Ti, X (2010) and the 504th frame made in that year?

oliver1850 04-25-2012 09:21 AM

We haven't had much feedback relative to the lastest serial number system, but that sounds right based on what I've seen.

PaMtbRider 06-15-2012 11:41 AM

I have an Ottrott SE with the last 4 digits being 1677. It is about a 2 year old bike. I would have thought there were more Ottrott's in existence.


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