New Sram Red eTap AXS group
 

Just read (red?) this article on Peloton.

Who's getting in on this?

12 Speed
Fluid r. der
Faster shifting
New hub body required
Wider range of gear inches

Is it just me or is pricing... OY? :eek: :eek:

Also, what if I don't want the power meter and just want regular crank for 2x? I kept looking for the pricing option but didn't see it.

Pricing and Weights
RED eTap AXS
2x Hydraulic Road Disc Brake w/ Power: $4158
2x Hydraulic Road Disc Brake w/ Power: $3648
2x Rim Brake w/ Power: $3998
2x Rim Brake: $3488
1x Hydraulic Road Disc Brake x/Power: $3708
1x Hydraulic Road Disc Brake: $3198
Includes: Rear Derailleur, Front Derailleur (if applicable), Controls, Brake Calipers, Rotors (if applicable)
Crankset/power meter, Bottom Bracket, Cassette, Chain, Battery(s), and Charger.
RED Disc: 2x 2518grams +36grams with Power.
RED Rim: 2x 2254grams +36grams with Power.

X01 Eagle AXS $1900
XX1 Eagle AXS $2000
Includes: Cranks (w/ Chainring), Derailleur (w/ battery), Controller (w/ clamp), Cassette,
Chain, Charger/Cord, Chain Gap Tool.



Note that I haven't tried the current eTap and have mainly Campy rim brake groups on my bikes and 1 Shimano canti group. Haven't jumped on any of electronic groupsets though you all have me tempted but my sense of simplicity and my reluctance to open my wallet have kept me back.

2by disc w/o power?
2by rim w/o power? :eek:

Pretty obvious what they want to sell.

It's about time!

1x needed eTap, though I kind of scratch my head on the limited cassette options.
The most gentle range 12s 10-33 has about the same range as an 11s 11-36, but with tighter spacing... hopefully having a much needed 11T for 10,11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,33

I would really like to see a 12s 10-36 or 10-40...something that sits between this 10-33 road cassette and the 10-50 Eagle. ...because 1x gravel gearing is a thing now, right?

For this^ and a few other rea$ons, I'll be sticking with ye olde cable actuated 11s Force1.

I'd be curious if the Force AXS eTap might be 11-spd and essentially a re-branded original etap group, but with the axs stuff (and maybe the funkier rear derailleur)

Pretty good review at Above Cat: https://abovecategorycycling.com/blo...-red-axs-group

I like the look of the chainrings.

Still waiting for wireless EPS hydro...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Seems to be some typos in the article from Peloton. The second item ("2x Hydraulic Road Disc Brake w/ Power: $3648") presumably is meant to be without power, which would explain the $500 delta with the first identically described item ("2x Hydraulic Road Disc Brake w/ Power: $4158").

Maybe not though.

I didn't see any details about the hubs. Are they through axle only, or is a quick release version available for rim brake wheels? Is the rear spacing 135 or is there a 130 option available? Basically asking if new 12-speed SRAM can be retrofitted to older bikes, or does the new group require a new frame.

Greg

Many (all?) rim-brake Zipp wheels are now listed as "XDR compatible," but I haven't seen any other hub/wheel manufacturers show off their XDR freehub bodies yet.

UPDATE: Just saw CK announced an XDR freehub body for both R45 rim and disc brake hubs. I'm sure the other brands will announce theirs soon now that SRAM has dropped the groupset.

Would like to see the app based programing be offered to existing eTap systems. This is why they came with the dongle in the first place right? Firmware updates that never happened? I'd like the sequential and assist options but don't want a hardware change to get them.

The powermeter is also integrated into the chainrings, so if you want to replace the chainrings you have to chuck your powermeter. That's laughable.

SRAM claim that there is a 50% increase in chainring durability, and you get the replacement powermeter half price, but it's still pretty stupid.

edit^^^^ beat me to it:


Also - the chainrings are integrated into the powermeter. If you bend, wear out, or otherwise want to change a ring, you can't.

Sram says if damage or wear out happens, they will sell you a replacement for half off. I like my current eTap stuff, but no thanks on the disposable power meter option.

Sigh, at least 11sp eTap will finally be affordable. God forbid the industry stays with something for more than a year before setting new standards in order to use their products.

Interesting development, from the Radavist:

"Drop bar mountain bikes, or monster cross bikes are such capable vehicles for rides like this. They allow for multiple hand positions, varied riding positions, bigger tires, and extended gearing. The problem is, getting road shifters to work with mountain bike derailleurs has always been tricky.

Check back tomorrow and we’ll look at the bike I built with Moots and SRAM’s new AXS group…"

https://1k8v1j48qpy31xwzwlyhyn9p-wpe...DO_MOOTS-6.jpg

I'm wondering if we couldn't just use our existing cranks with an aftermarket 1X ring? Like we do now. Why do we have to be forced to use sram's new cranksets?

It's just the mtb version of the AXS rd. It's a longer cage.

Every new groupset comes out with the manufacturer saying you need to use the new crank and chainrings. Usually that doesn't turn out to be true.

Yeah but in this case the teeth and chain have been revamped and they say it won't work with any other components. That's why I'm thinking we'll have to wait for the Wolftooths of the world to create new chainrings that are compatible with the new chain.

I think it looks awesome. From someone who currently has Etap, Campy Potenza Hydro and Campy Chorus and a bike with 11 speed shim dt shifters

Things that I like -

-Looks great, love how the crankset looks.. futuristic but cool (sorry campy, the new crank is aweful, this one looks better than shim and campy.
- FD allows more space for bigger tires.
- Same batt are old etap (thanks sram so at least I know I will have easy access to batteries for a hot minute)
- 12 speed (I mean no one needs it but I guess its what everyone is going to)
- gear ratios. This is my favorite. I have been ridding 46/34 up front for about a month. I thought I had a secret, this is just amazing. with a 11-32 cassette in the back, it is just perfect for where I live. Have to switch from the big to the small so much less, the 46T is perfect for rolling hills... sure I have had this on my gravel bike but I have been ridding road with it, want to switch all my road bikes to this now.
-Shifters and whole groupset still looks great. Very premium, love the silver accents that they have kept from old etap.
- Etap App. Finally something like shimano app. Hope they let you mess with speed of shifting and stuff.
- RD looks awesome and 1 RD that works for both 2x and 1x


Things I don't like -

- Price. Its even more than the old etap it seems.
- Proprietary chainrings. Everyone is doing this and it is a damn shame.
- XDR rear hub. Bah, lame. So there goes the beauty to be able to use shimano/campy/sram cassettes. This is really a bummer
- Powermeter linked to chainrings (I did not read this anywhere but in a comment above), this is just DUMB.
- FD still looks chunky and maybe not enough tire clearance from it... 650B tires can get big sram... and no I dont want to go 1x
- Need new blips. the sram blips are gigantic and ugly.
- Anything else that is proprietary. God I hate proprietary crap.


Still, very good effort from sram. i think they seem to be listening to people. I hate to say it but this is sooooo much better of a move to 12 than campys.....

come on campy, you can still redeem yourself with a 12 speed wireless EPS.

GCN video review says that the width of the AXS cassette is the same as the 11s standard. If your wheel has an XD driver conversion available, you should be able to run this.

But the Xdr hub is 2mm wider..

The XDR freehub body is 1.85mm wider than a standard XD hub body, not a traditional road freehub. The XDR hub is the same width as an 11s sram road freehub. If your wheel has an XD option, my interpretation is that you should be able to get an XDR variant for swap in from your manufacturer either already, or shortly.


https://www.sram.com/stories/sram-xd...body-explained

actually been wondering when etap was going to get an update.
for something that ships with an update dongle, it's a testament that they went this long... and you still don't need it.
i've done the shimano and campy thing, and with this sram's left them behind in the 20th century
re the cranks, i don't see that as any kind of a problem. every time there's a new crankset, people bemoan proprietary this and that, myself included. but honestly, if you're dropping the coin on axs, then you're not going to quibble about a chainring. and to be honest, i never ever got used to the 4 arm cranks. stuff usually grows on me as the novelty wears off, but not with the cranks. current sram red cranks are a thing of beauty

Re power meter & replaceable chain rings, Sram made the comment that the chain rings should last 5+ years for most people, and that is the design life for a power meter anyway. So maybe that makes it a little acceptable...

I’m currently using Sram etap 11 with Campy 11 wheels/cassette and it works perfectly.

Does anyone know if the new Sram etap 12 will work with Campy 12 wheel/cassette? If so, that might be a way to get around the compatibility issue, although you would be limited to using only the Campy 12 cassettes.

Right. My point was that an XDr cassette (12s) won't fit on an XD freehub. In my case I don't have an XDr freehub available because American Classic went out of business. FFFFF!

Most likely not -- Campy cassette fits on existing 11 speed without an adapter. Looks like Sram needs an adapter to extend the length of existing 11-speed cassette bodies.

No, they use an entirely different freehub body. Same width as a Shimano/SRAM 11 speed road freehub.

https://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content...compatible.jpg

Cool, but I’ll be holding on to my rim brakes and mechanical groupsets. Yes, I plan to be the retro grouch of the next generation.

And for those that change chainrings to tailor their gearing to specific events?

I think they’re offering three different options for their chainring setup, all with 13-tooth difference from small to large. That’s my understanding at least.

So it’s expensive to swap them out out they do offer options.

Yeah, apparently the powermeter/chainring assembly is about $820 - that's a chunk of change for changing chainring size.

And what's up with all the cassettes starting with 10 tooth sprockets. Smaller sprockets have greater energy losses, so you're leaving some energy behind when you use these cassettes.

The cost is crazy. But I heard the GCN guy say he likes the “No Holds Barred” philosophy. We know there is trickle down in bike tech even if there isn’t everywhere else.

I’ll toot my own horn for a second. I first did a 50/39 with an 11-28 about 3 years ago and find it to be a really useful setup. I’m glad SRAM is copying my gearing philosophy! :beer::D

The starting on the 10 is silly to me, even 46-11 is plenty... If you are going to be racing you will probably not want the 46 crankset. I guess they did it to have an equivalent to 53-11. I bet they will release different cassettes eventually. Would be nice to have a 11-34 cassette for example with less gaps at the end.


As far as the PM, I still think its super silly what they have done BUT I guess you can always not run quarq and run vector pedals or powertap pedals OR run a different crankset (they will come)

The Force version that is scheduled to come out in April allegedly does not have the integrated power meter so likely a cheaper path forward for those that like to swap out chain rings.

Enough for what?

I couldn't disagree more, the 10T is a game changer. It enables a much smaller chainring which then enables a smaller big cog for the equivalent low and high end of a 53/39, all with a tighter cassette. It's literally better in every way.

One of the articles I saw said the SRAM folks say the things work out you don't really lose anything in terms of efficiency. Of course, you do lose the ability to run the wheels you are used to using unless SRAM 12 works with Campy 12 cassettes. Also, the SRAM folks may be a little biased in this regard.

Except efficiency of course...

This stuff is quiet...

The gearing spread using XDR makes for smaller stiffer rings and the front shifting is bang on... or it isnt. there's no bang. It's VERY quick but it's smooth enough that it's without any sort of fuss. No chain slap...

Etap was already the easiest to install by miles.

Thank Fairwheel Bikes for sequential and corrected shifting... They were doing this for years with Hacking DI2... Including my Bedford Project...

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/lates...-custom-steel/


https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-co...013/06/kb2.jpg


Campy's 12 is also very good ratios, smooth, tight and quiet, large jockey wheels, and their disc brakes are fantastic.

Actually, it sounds like you can use existing wheels-- you just need to swap out the old 11s freehub for the new xdr.

Canyon already has some models available with this new group. The Ultimate is $7,500 compared to the similar Dura Ace Di2 model at $7,000 (no power meter on either). I'm pretty sure they only have 1 or 2 of each in stock because large was available about an hour ago and now it is sold out.