I think people can only comment on the one death that has a tie to them (In response to why the other passengers aren't being celebrated). As Laker fans and Los Angelinos, the connection we shared with Kobe from a 17yr old, is really deep. I was told at a young age to never idolize or worship idols. The only thing I'm telling my friends, is to use his death as a way to reflect on the real meaningful moments you've shared with people who truly care about you. The guys that bought you beers watching Kobe play. The memories when he hit big shots, the people that were with you screaming when he passed to Ron Artest for that huge 3, the dunk over Nash when Kobe was the real MVP that season. I can pin point the people and places I was at because of Kobe and the Lakers, and those people/places mean everything to me.

Sports is a necessary distraction for society I feel, that creates real bonds with real people. It's a conduit for friendship. When you start young, you forge friendships over sports (Little league, Pop Warner, AYSO, etc). That shouldn't be lost. When Kobe passed, all I thought about was every moment I was with someone because of him. Those people mean more to me than the celebrity. The names on the jerseys fade away, but the memories with people you truly care about are never lost. I won't shed a tear, but I give thanks and I'm not going to judge him because of his past. My friend from Boston posted something that was super deep about him (Court transcripts), and it hit home for me. She means more to me than the celebrity who did what he was accused and ultimately admitted too. Out of the respect for her and the things she's been through, I immediately identified meaning in his death. Again goes back to why we should never idolize these people..

This is a great response. It captures the complexity of the situation. The little boy in me that needs to believe in the infallibility of superheroes cried last night. The adult in me knows that the totality of someone's character matters.

So when Eddy Mercx passes away you don't even think it is worthy of any comments?

I have never followed the sport of basketball nor golf for that matter but I know who Bryant and Tiger are, anyone who picks up a paper or reads the news online must have come across those names at some point. The first thing I thought when I heard that was I wondered how many people were on board and if there were any survivors.

But I can at least see how many people who spent lots of time watching this man perform to near perfection in a sport they love would be upset. Further I'd say it seems kind of sad to me to not have anyone to look up to. Most of the ones I look up to are musicians and guitar makers. I'll definitely be sad when for example Jorma Kaukonen, Bob Dylan or Tony Iommi dies.

And it would be a logical fallacy to assume that just because someone is sad that someone they look up to has died that they completely disregard the others they never met who died on the same day.

Beautiful post. Thank you.

This. Not a fan of pro basketball or the man, but his kid dying and his other children not having a father really sucks.

No problem and special VFR is 1 mile vis and ‘clear of clouds’, isn’t it? Doubt he had 1 mile vis. Bottom line is it looked like this is pilot error, 100%. Too bad.

I’ve been reflecting and reading the comments here and elsewhere, wondering a bit about why I feel so affected by Kobe’s death. I never met him, never even saw him even though he was a fixture here in “The OC”. I guess I didn’t realize how deeply he was ingrained into our culture and our individual psyches.

For better or worse, we develop emotional connections to public figures. I am probably more of a music fan than a sports fan, and there are musicians whose passing will be gut-wrenching for me. I realize that many people feel the same way about athletes. It’s a way to connect with greatness that most of us can’t ever achieve. Is our culture overly-obsessed with celebrity? Probably. Should we admire a medical researcher or a social worker more than an athlete? Probably. But I’m still feeling bad about the death of a basketball player. It turns out he was a big part of my life.

Yes, 1mi vis, CoC

AP has an article with this diagram, drawn from FlightRadar24 data. Indicates (to me) that the pilot made it through the valley but possibly became disoriented (or lost visual contact with the highways they were following and thus situational awareness) and flew too far southeast into the hills.

Pilot apparently (presumably, possibly, guessing, total WAG) mis-interpreted Las Virgenes Road as the 101 and accidentally followed it instead*. I've done that, chosen the wrong road when flying VFR.**

*Shades of the Corey Lidle crash, where he accidentally flew north up the East River instead of the Hudson River -- an easy thing to do if you're not familiar with the area. The East River ends in a daed end into New York ATC airspace so instead of calling La Guardia for help they tried to make a tight 180-degree turn but instead got blown into a skyscraper by strong easterly winds.

**We would call that "IFR": I Follow Roads.

Why fly "special VFR" through very busy complicated airspace? Why scud run among 3000-foot hills? Why not just file IFR and let ATC take you over everything, taking care of your navigation and traffic separation needs; for that short a trip they'd just give you radar vectors to destination. My guess is time constraints (filing, processing, getting clearance, and release would take a lot more time than just "get in and go and we'll deal with it in the air, which is bull****, since it's a 10 minute process); "get there-itis" (we have someplace we really need to be); and complacency (we shoot the valleys along these roads all the time).

Newport News, Virginia Police Officer and Navy veteran Katie Thyne was killed Friday on the job. She leaves behind a 2 year old daughter.

Her assailant (and prior felon) fled the scene and was later arrested and charged with felony homicide, eluding and drug possession.

She mattered so much more than some retired guy. If that dude in the copter hadn't been rich, he'd have had prior convictions too. SAD.

Correct on the SVFR visibility. The pilot held to the east of the Burbank/Van Nuys area until he received SVFR clearance through the class B/C airspace. He got into trouble after he left that airspace and reverted to helicopter VFR (clear of clouds) in the class G airspace. Yup, bottom line = pilot error. Very sad for everyone in that copter.

Greg

I predict litigation will ensue.

No way for us to know if the helicopter was IFR certified (specifically thinking of pitot-static, transponder checks, etc...), and if their op specs allowed them to operate IFR. "Get there-itis" and complacency are tops of my list too, along with task saturation. Too much for one pilot, even a good one. The best decision would have been to divert to Van Nuys and have a limo take the passengers to their destination. If there was a second pilot, they could have been on the radio to the FBO making arrangements for ground transport.

I lost a friend from scud running in conditions like this. Funerals have a big impact on future aeronautical decision making. I once had to tell a US senator that he would have to take a limo home due to a minor mechanical on the airplane. The MEL said no IFR, so the senator had a two-hour drive instead of a half-hour flight. I hope he remembers me fondly.

Greg

[QUOTE=XXtwindad;2649262)Say what you will about sanctimony and snark, but I think Flash's comment took a certain amount of guts.[/QUOTE]

i can tell youre a well adjusted dude... normal healthy people dont get dudes like flash, but i speak the language and can help lend perspective:

NPDs are bold, they are never brave. bravery necessitates some kind of trepidation, some kind of chance being taken. but flash posts his ultrasanctimony and condescension knowing exactly the response he'll get, and feeds on the negative energy that ripples back at him... cuz he, in perfect narcissistic tendency, confuses peoples' contempt for envy.

getting hammered with criticism for him probably feels about as good as getting piled with praise would feel to you. cuz he's better than 'em criticizing, and their failure to grasp his righteousness is just more proof o it. ahhh, feels good.

---

RIP, victims of this tragedy.

I hope so too. Three things stand out to me about the aviation side of this-the pilot was an instructor, so competent hopefully. He also had a relationship with the paying passenger-liked him, flew him a lot, and that may have lead to overconfidence or the inability to say no. That's a lotta bird to fly solo ifr through that airspace (meaning it may explain the vfr choice), so the lack of a copilot weighs on my mind.

As far as Kobe goes, I spent a lot of time in his home town. AI was revered there, and probably had all of Kobe's flaws. But it seems they've both matured. Their backgrounds couldn't be more different. I think that talent and fame as a teenage phenom does ugly things to folks. Sometimes, they recover to be fine men, so he gets a pass in my book, although I get the contrary point of view expressed here.

How long have I been living rent free in your head? I need to know what I can claim as a second residence on my taxes this year.

Some people...

Thanks for all of the aviation talk--I don't understand most of it but I find it interesting.

It does seem to me that risk increases in situations where a person with a high amount of responsibility is also the "chosen guy" and a long-time associate of a paying customer.

One thing this discussion brings up for me is about forgiveness for past transgressions. I don't know almost anything about Kobe Bryant, I haven't followed pro basketball since growing up in Boston in the early 1960s (how could you not, there, then?), but it somehow stuck in my head when i first heard of his death that there was something in his past about sexual assault.

If an ugly incident happens one time, is there an accumulation of subsequent good deeds that nudges us to let the past go?

I'm not talking about the serial offenders of the world like Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein. But many of us have regrets about things they've done that they wish they hadn't, even if they weren't illegal or violent.

BTW, I'm more upset with the story that my alma mater anonymized Epstein's $$ donations than with many transgressions by individuals. At least they appear to be dealing with it seriously.

Worth a read, or at least a scan.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...577S8KjGEtzi2g

Definitely, thanks

For some reason, this discussion has caused some personal attacks which is clearly against the rules of conduct for the forum.
There has been some good discussion here, but there's also been some personal attacks. Please stop it, or we will close this thread.

Personally, I think grace is something everyone deserves at their death. I don't like pissing on the newly deceased though I am sure I have I felt like many deserve it. There is plenty of time to do disparage or give an accurate account of one's life before and after. But at the moment of passing, I think everyone deserves to be shown grace.

Very nicely stated, thank you.

Even someone like Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden? FWIW I've got no skin in this as I only know of Kobe Bryant as the name of a baketballer I've heard once. I wouldn't know him if I fell over him in the street.

Surely there’s room for criticism between Saddam or Osama and a virtual angel. Like with Kobe, rapist.

My wife and I were discussing this the other night. Are people defined by their inherent humanity, or irrevocably defined by their choices? Can good people still make bad choices? Vice versa?

I'm not sure where I fall on Kobe is a rapist. Just like our society has a sordid history of sexual violence against women, we also have a sordid history of white women accusing black men of rape.

Yes. Simply, we all came into this world without judgment, so, why not do the same at death. It's my faith. It is what I try to do. And like all faiths, it is weird but it allows me a restful nights sleep. Vodka probably does the same.

OMG you guys. I'm closing this down as there are just too many responses that are veering off the rails.