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-   -   OT Terribly sad news - Kobe Bryant (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=246864)

GregL 01-27-2020 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulspinner (Post 2649142)
It appears more and more that the conditions(extreme fog contributed to this) were poor enough to ground aircraft. What was this pilot doing going into known hilly areas with extremely poor vision?
The key word above is "aircraft." Helicopters have lower requirements for flight under Visual Flight Rules (VFR). Weather conditions that are not authorized for VFR flight in fixed-wing aircraft may be legal and safe for helicopters. That being said, the weather undoubtedly was a factor in this crash. The Sikorsky S-76 is an incredibly capable helicopter certified for instrument flight. Why it was being flown (legally) by just one pilot makes no sense to me. If you can afford an S-76, you can afford a second pilot and the added safety that comes with them.

Greg

soulspinner 01-27-2020 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregL (Post 2649162)
The key word above is "aircraft." Helicopters have lower requirements for flight under Visual Flight Rules (VFR). Weather conditions that are not authorized for VFR flight in fixed-wing aircraft may be legal and safe for helicopters. That being said, the weather undoubtedly was a factor in this crash. The Sikorsky S-76 is an incredibly capable helicopter certified for instrument flight. Why it was being flown (legally) by just one pilot makes no sense to me. If you can afford an S-76, you can afford a second pilot and the added safety that comes with them.

Greg
Didn't know 2 pilots were a possibility. Glad you chimed in. I know the military uses these copters. Also there were 9 aboard, didn't know it could carry that many. Disorientation can happen to any pilot in extreme conditions and apparently the fog was dense enough that LA police choppers were grounded. Maybe Saab 2000 could illuminate us more.

BobO 01-27-2020 08:51 AM
Doesn't tell us what actually happened, but does seem to suggest that the visibility was a factor;

Quote:
The helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant and eight other passengers that crashed into a hillside in Southern California on Sunday was in a climbing left turn about 2,400 feet high before it dove to the ground, a person familiar with preliminary investigative information about the fatal crash told ESPN.

The source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told ESPN that the pilot had only moments before contacted air traffic controllers to say that he had begun a climb to "go above the layer" of clouds present.

The chopper went down in Calabasas, about 30 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles, after departing John Wayne Airport in Orange County at 9:06 a.m. PT. The first 911 call reporting the crash was received at 9:47

Audio reviewed by ESPN indicates that a few minutes prior to the crash, an air traffic controller told the pilot that he was "still too low level for flight following," meaning the aircraft was below the level at which it could be picked up by radar due to the area's hilly terrain. That audio came from recordings posted on LiveATC.net, which has partial audio of the communication between the pilot and air traffic controllers.

Additional recordings between the pilot and air traffic controllers posted on the site indicate that the pilot was getting guidance from controllers as he navigated what was reported to be dense morning fog.

Air traffic controllers noted poor visibility around Burbank, just to the north, and Van Nuys, to the northwest. After holding up the helicopter for other aircraft, the controllers cleared the Sikorsky S-76 to proceed north along Interstate 5 through Burbank before turning west to follow U.S. Route 101, the Ventura Highway.

Shortly after 9:40 a.m., the helicopter turned again, toward the southeast, and climbed to more than 2,000 feet above sea level. It then descended and crashed into a hillside at about 1,400 feet, according to data from Flightradar24.

When it struck the ground, the helicopter was flying at about 160 knots (184 mph) and descending at a rate of more than 4,000 feet per minute (45 mph), the Flightradar24 data showed.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...urn-rapid-dive

Still anonymous sources (and ESPN) so take it for what it is.

oldpotatoe 01-27-2020 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregL (Post 2649162)
The key word above is "aircraft." Helicopters have lower requirements for flight under Visual Flight Rules (VFR). Weather conditions that are not authorized for VFR flight in fixed-wing aircraft may be legal and safe for helicopters. That being said, the weather undoubtedly was a factor in this crash. The Sikorsky S-76 is an incredibly capable helicopter certified for instrument flight. Why it was being flown (legally) by just one pilot makes no sense to me. If you can afford an S-76, you can afford a second pilot and the added safety that comes with them.

Greg
All true..helicopters can operate 'clear of clouds' but pretty sure, still need 3 miles vis. As for 2 crew..really depends...A lot of aircraft are single pilot certified, even in IFR, the S-76 is. No guarantee that this aircraft wouldn't have flown into the hill with 2 pilots. I thinking he didn't have 3 miles vis tho..

jr59 01-27-2020 09:51 AM
Well, I met Kobe while he was still in HS. A blind guy could tell he was going to be a pro, even then, he was a total jerk then. A bad kid.

I was use to dealing with high level HS talent, but he took the cake. I told his father that I cannot use him on my team. He was the best player by far, but the headache was to much.

Over the years, I watched him make many mistakes, BUT, I’m happy to say, I watched him grow up. Mature would be a better term. I’m sorry for the families and for all the things Kobe was involved in these days. Some real good stuff. So RIP young man.

Mike V 01-27-2020 10:00 AM
Radio transmissions from flight.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=B0pQfgi9ZqU

GregL 01-27-2020 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpotatoe (Post 2649197)
All true..helicopters can operate 'clear of clouds' but pretty sure, still need 3 miles vis. As for 2 crew..really depends...A lot of aircraft are single pilot certified, even in IFR, the S-76 is. No guarantee that this aircraft wouldn't have flown into the hill with 2 pilots. I thinking he didn't have 3 miles vis tho..
The pilot requested and received a Special VFR clearance to operate within the Class C and D airspace around Burbank and Van Nuys airports. This allowed him to operate VFR with less than 3 miles vis. After he left that area, he was in
Class G airspace within 1,200 ft. Above Ground Level (AGL), so he only needed to remain clear of clouds (see FAR 91.155) in a helicopter.

I cut my teeth as a young pilot flying single-pilot IFR in Barons and Navajos. Winters full of ice and snow, summers dodging thunderstorms. I was legal and worked very hard to stay safe, but felt much safer when I moved up to two-pilot operations in turboprops and jets. Two well-trained pilots trump one in my book, especially under IMC in very complicated airspace like the LA basin.

For context, I have enormous respect for your flying background! Naval aviators have tremendous responsibilities. Their skills and the training required to conduct their missions is amazing. I'm just bringing in my background from commercial flying in everything from small twins to large business jets.

Greg

Elefantino 01-27-2020 10:37 AM
Twitter is bugging the NBA to change its logo from Jerry West to Kobe.

Not sure what to think about that.

FlashUNC 01-27-2020 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elefantino (Post 2649228)
Twitter is bugging the NBA to change its logo from Jerry West to Kobe.

Not sure what to think about that.
Uh no.

XXtwindad 01-27-2020 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashUNC (Post 2649233)
Uh no.
Probably best to leave as is. Bill Russell might be a good alternative if they're searching for one.

Jaybee 01-27-2020 11:07 AM
There is zero need to change the NBA logo. It’s a perfect piece of design as is.

We certainly shouldn’t reactionarily change it because we’re sad about Kobe’s tragic passing. He was great, but maybe a top10-15 guy all time? The only players we could change it for are Jordan or Bron. The iconic Jordan silhouette is a trademarked logo for his shoe company, and I’m not sure what the iconic LeBron profile looks like. Also, he is still playing.

fiamme red 01-27-2020 11:11 AM
https://gothamist.com/arts-entertain...subway-tribute

https://cms.prod.nypr.digital/images.../fill-661x496/

72gmc 01-27-2020 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=XXtwindad;2649008]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashUNC (Post 2648989)
Great 2 guard who fit the era he played in.

After that, well, that's about the only compliment I can think of for the guy.

Well, I can see your perspective. It's certainly a rational one. His legacy is complicated - undoubtedly the most complicated in this Millennium. But that doesn't explain why I've been teary eyed all day.

Kobe was a master of burnishing his own legacy. He created the "Mamba," the gunner who saved the day late in the game (the stats don't exactly agree) and the charming, charismatic, and handsome man who was tailor-made for Tinseltown. Except that was really a myth, too. See: hotel room, Colorado. And his teammates didn't exactly adore him.

Contrast Kobe with AI, who was seemingly his antithesis. And he was. Yet the press flipped the script. AI was adored by his community, and his teammates.

But it's easy to digest a ready-made script. At the Philly/LA game last night, (the same game where the cameras zoomed in on LBJ's eerily prescient "Kobe Homage" shoes) my buddy and I saw a guy embrace Mark Jackson and Van Gundy. We didn't know who it was. We were shocked when we found out it was AI. Hard to believe. He looked drastically different from his playing days.

But not Kobe. He was the first basketball superstar of the Internet Age, and for 25 years, he never appeared anything less than youthful, confident, and indestructible. Hard to reconcile the fact that he's gone.

That's why I've been crying on and off today. Especially now that I'm a parent. You want to believe that someone like Kobe, who so artfully mastered his own legacy, would be impervious to the capricious whims of fate.

But he wasn't.

https://www.heraldcourier.com/sports...e39cb09c4.html
XXtwindad, I appreciate what you said here, and that you took the time to say it. It's a tremendous loss of what might have been not just from him, but from his daughter and the others on that aircraft. I was not a fan of who he was--but I was ready to give him credit for what he was becoming.

XXtwindad 01-27-2020 11:24 AM
Thinking about all the vitriol in the past few pages of this thread, and of Kobe's tragic passing. I was really stunned by it, and in addition to talking with friends, thought that the Paceline would be a good place to get some perspective.

Flash's opinions caught me off guard. They were (obviously) devoid of any sentimentality. But they weren't inflammatory per say. And they were civil (which is more than I can say for a few of the responses).

Say what you will about sanctimony and snark, but I think Flash's comment took a certain amount of guts. Not "rushing into a burning building to save someone" guts, but guts nonetheless. You had a hagiographic narrative, and then someone posted a different perspective.

A reporter lost her job (at least temporarily) for this: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ashington-post

I don't really care about extramarital affairs. That was between Kobe and his wife. But the evidence of the assault was pretty damning. More so than I knew. I think, in the discussion of his legacy, that it's fair to bring up. More to the point, in a forum devoted to the free exchange of ideas, should we allow for the possibility of contrasting (or unpopular) opinions?

I think we should.

XXtwindad 01-27-2020 11:26 AM
[QUOTE=72gmc;2649255]
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXtwindad (Post 2649008)

XXtwindad, I appreciate what you said here, and that you took the time to say it. It's a tremendous loss of what might have been not just from him, but from his daughter and the others on that aircraft. I was not a fan of who he was--but I was ready to give him credit for what he was becoming.
Well, thanks for that. But I did some ruminating last night and came up with a slightly different take.


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