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-   -   Serial Numbers Decoded (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=99078)

oliver1850 10-22-2013 09:23 AM

Classique - steel
 
There's a steel Classique on ebay which the seller says is stamped SS. Sounds right as Classique Ti is ST.

Neil 12-02-2013 05:57 PM

My CSi is CS 57 1361, I think it is likely to be 1998 onward- can anyone shed any light? It was in the red/white/blue "Patriot" colour scheme originally.

oliver1850 12-02-2013 11:53 PM

The Patriot scheme is listed in the 1998 catalog, but not in the 1999. I believe that 1998 was the first year for head tube mounted cable stops, but am not sure about 1997. I think all 1997 bikes had the 25th Anniversary sticker.

I think 1999 was the first year for the C4S tubing sticker.

You might do a search for 1998 CSI and see if you turn one up, then compare frame details and/or contact poster to see how close the serial number is to yours.

Neil 12-03-2013 01:40 AM

This is CS 57 1534:

https://static.lfgss.com/attachments...5338511-s9.jpg

The anniversary sticker means that this has to be a 1997 I believe?

Mine had this sticker:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9114a801.jpg

Bad angle, but you can see that the grey downtube sticker is slightly different.

Mine is 1361- so a couple of hundred frames before the yellow CSi.

Both frames are identical- head tube mounted cable stops etc.

So- both likely to be 1997?

Neil 12-03-2013 03:31 AM

Just found this in another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbonner (Post 1113677)
Thinking maybe actually a '98: My '96 CSi #501, VSEFIREAM's #815's a '97.
Also cablestops on headtube. Anyway, it's gorgeous

As we know that Luke's CSi (the yellow one) has to be a '97 due to the 25th anniversary sticker, that means that the '97 range is (at least) #815 to #1534.

Which would put mine (#1361) bang in the middle of that range.

Does it seem likely that Serotta turned out ~800 CSi's in 1997?

EDIT: started to put together a list (mainly found on this forum) of known serial numbers/years: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lE&usp=sharing

Please contribute your serial number, and the year if you know it.

Neil 12-05-2013 01:30 AM

Actually I think that I was wrong in my last post, the more I look into this.

The cable stops moved to the headtube in 1997, does anyone know in what year the under-BB cable guides changed from being integral to the shell to being a bolted on plastic guide?

oliver1850 12-06-2013 01:45 AM

Not the first time I've wished we had a 1997 catalog - they printed one (besides the anniversary brochure).

The serial number database is a good idea. It will save a lot of thread searching if we can get enough people to participate. We were very close to having access to Serotta serial number documentation last summer - a narrow window of opportunity that may never open again.

I wouldn't have thought they built that many CSIs in one year but I could be wrong. Perhaps Dave Kirk can comment on your questions.

sbarner 01-06-2014 09:05 PM

1984 Serial Numbers
 
Old post, I know, but I have two '84s and serial numbers of both of them start with 84.

Steve Barner
Bolton, VT

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1228057)
There's a 50th anniversary Campagnolo frame on ebay, which has the Campy shield engraving on the stay caps and crown. That pretty well establishes it as a 1983. The serial number is 831131.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Serotta-Camp...item4abd85eeaf

Another ebay frame: 1981 Club Special with the oval seat tube decal, above BB cable routing, seat stay cap engraving (Serotta), BB shell with "Cinelli" cast in, round brake bridge sans engraving, serial number 81156.

Would be nice to find a 1984 frame to see if the serial number starts with 84 or 4.

Towards the other end of the history, a 2006 Couer d'Acier with steel seat stays, coded CCO. I'd like to see a carbon stayed one. I think Colorado IIIs and CDAs were both CO (CCO for custom), but the CDAs with carbon may have had another code.


Black Dog 01-08-2014 09:01 PM

SC57L 2739 is a for a 1991 Collorado II, for those trying to date Early Colorado II's. I think that the switch from Colorado to Colorado II happened in 1989, but I am not 100% sure on that.

Aaron O 01-10-2014 04:36 PM

My 92' CII has:

SC55 2936

NRV 01-10-2014 06:30 PM

1991 (ish?) Colorado II in Magenta / Orange as seen below:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpo...2&postcount=40

Serial: SC 52 01281

Asudef 01-23-2014 04:19 PM

Colorado ID
 
Can someone help me ID this bike?

I remember finding the color scheme in the catalogs but they don't look identical.

Cursive Colorado decals, brazed/tapered ST and DT tubes at BB, brazed/ovalized TT at HT joint, internally routed, flared but not S curved stays, Colorado Concept Columbus tubing sticker.

Serial reads 91221. There may be another small marking just below the serial but the paint is too thick to read it. You can faintly make it out in this pic.

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/DSCF1629.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/DSCF1632.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/DSCF1630.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/DSCF1634.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/DSCF1633.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/DSCF1623.jpg

Black Dog 01-28-2014 03:05 PM

Just picked up a CII from a fellow forum member: SN: SC 54 2691 which would put it at late '91.

oliver1850 02-03-2014 03:18 PM

SBarner: Thanks for the info. We hopefully can now say that 1982 - 1984 Serotta serial numbers started with a two digit year code. I believe that 1985 to early 1990 started with a single digit for the year. A Nova Special recently surfaced on the forum with a serial number that begins with zero. I still believe the switch to the two letter model codes happened in 1990, because my Nova Special is coded SL58xxxx, and 1990 was the last year for the Nova.

Black Dog: I believe you are correct about the CII being introduced in 1989. I have a Bicycle Guide test of the Colorado in the July 1989 issue. Although the frame is referred to as a "Colorado" throughout the article, the box with specs for the bike and build is headed up with "Colorado II".

NRV: Yes, I think that's very likely a 1991. That paint was one of the standards on the CII in 1991. I have an NHX (only made in '91) painted the same way (factory paint, but custom on the NHX).

Aaron O: Good to have the serial number, shows how many CIIs were being made in the early 1990s (a lot). 1992 is the last year, yours probably is full lugged? Would like to see it.

Asudef: That's surely a 1989 Colorado. I have a nearly identical one, serial number is SC61 0242. The only thing that doesn't fit is the brake cable routing on yours. Mine is newer (1990) and still had the top of top tube cable guides. My blue/yellow CII is number 0432 and is pretty much identical in details except it has the top ported internal routing. The side ported routing wasn't used by Serotta as far as I know until 1993 with the CR and CRL. I wonder if possibly someone had yours repainted around that time and had the internal routing done at the same time. I've seen a couple of other Serotta factory repaints done on older bikes with the split cable stops of the CSI, but never one with added internal routing. It's also missing the chevrons on the ST and DT, which I believe all 1989 frames had. One other thing that makes me think it's a repaint is the tubing sticker. I don't think Serotta used anything but standard Columbus stickers until sometime after 1990, as my pink/onyx Colorado has a normal Columbus SP sticker. The blue/yellow CII has a Serotta sticker that says "Columbus" across the top. I think the sticker on your bike is a newer one, perhaps the one used on the CR/CRL. I have an early (1996?) CSI with the same sticker, but where yours is red, mine is light blue. So you've got an original color scheme, but decals are not quite right. Still closer than most repaints as you have the model name and USA shield which are often lacking.

We need a thread dedicated to all the different Serotta tubing stickers, I guess.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions. Feel free to PM me if I can help with anything.

Black Dog 02-05-2014 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1493839)

Black Dog: I believe you are correct about the CII being introduced in 1989. I have a Bicycle Guide test of the Colorado in the July 1989 issue. Although the frame is referred to as a "Colorado" throughout the article, the box with specs for the bike and build is headed up with "Colorado II".

I've seen a couple of other Serotta factory repaints done on older bikes with the split cable stops of the CSI, but never one with added internal routing.

I would love to read that review. Is there any chance that you have a scan or pic of it?

My CII was repainted in 1997 (or just after; it has the 25th anniversary decal under the clear coat) and split stops were added. I am not the original owner. I am assuming that since it is a 1991 it must have had the top internal routing and was changed over due to corrosion issues. I am pretty sure that even on a custom, spilt stops were not an option in 1991.

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps342f014f.jpg

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/a...pse94e0a96.jpg

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd70cd17f.jpg

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps11ff3610.jpg

oliver1850 02-05-2014 05:02 PM

I wonder if the TT might have been replaced. You might ask DK if they ever filled cable ports when doing split stop upgrades.

I think your frame is a 1992, as it has the full head tube lug and S bend stays. Very nice CII, arguably better than the original. Wish it were bigger so I could talk you out of one of the forks.

Black Dog 02-06-2014 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1495003)
I wonder if the TT might have been replaced. You might ask DK if they ever filled cable ports when doing split stop upgrades.

I think your frame is a 1992, as it has the full head tube lug and S bend stays. Very nice CII, arguably better than the original. Wish it were bigger so I could talk you out of one of the forks.

It is a 1991 for sure. The SN is SC54 2691 which predates a confirmed 1991 and it lacks the 20 (for Serotta's 20th anniversary) on the fork crown that seems to have been put on the 1992 CII forks.

oliver1850 02-07-2014 06:43 AM

It seems none of the changes on the CII corresponded with a model year change.

Vonruden 03-06-2014 07:04 PM

Bs 577
 
Late 70's / early 80's? My first Serotta, pondering a restore or just ride.

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psyr0u3qeq.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psdncmpeka.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psufmwx50n.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...pssexsidcw.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psjke8fhd9.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psrxesosdo.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psgk30sjxc.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...pszo7ortvd.jpg

vjp 03-13-2014 06:00 PM

My bet is mid 70's, I would ride it as is!

Really awesome, thanks for sharing it.

Black Dog 03-22-2014 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vonruden (Post 1510681)
Late 70's / early 80's? My first Serotta, pondering a restore or just ride.

I would ride it for a bit and if you have the means restore it. It looks amazing and after being restored it will be functional art and history. Do not restore it if you will be too afraid to ride it afterwards. That bike needs to be on the road.

jonk 03-24-2014 12:37 PM

2 Attachment(s)
My Serotta Colorado II serial number is SC59 00784. I believe it to be a 91 but it might be a 90. It can be seen here http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=145673

The original paint was the yellow/red fade and had the half lug on the top tube and the fillet brazed bottom bracket. Actually it appears the the bottom braket used a kind of inner lug and slipped the oversized tube on top of them (instead on inside them) so the lug is on the inside of the tubes. Heres a pic of what i mean (although its hard to see). Also, as i stated in the link, after stripping the paint I noticed the down tube was etched Tange Prestige. It was the only tube marked.

It also has the S stays and the internal brake cable on the top tube.

AJosiahK 03-24-2014 05:39 PM

extra numbers letters?
 
have a serotta ti and am looking at the serial number now, TI as in Ti legend?, 62 for the size, but the last 5 places, yes 5, confuse me a little

TI62L1161
1161 could be the production number but what would the L mean? custom Long? or ....

interesting right? or did I miss something.

what year could this frame have been made?

Keith A 03-24-2014 07:26 PM

I'm not sure about the year, but I do know that the "Ti" model was the predecessor to the "Legend Ti". I think the year would be mid to late 90's.

Black Dog 03-26-2014 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJosiahK (Post 1520302)
have a serotta ti and am looking at the serial number now, TI as in Ti legend?, 62 for the size, but the last 5 places, yes 5, confuse me a little

TI62L1161
1161 could be the production number but what would the L mean? custom Long? or ....

interesting right? or did I miss something.

what year could this frame have been made?

The L stands for Long. It would have a top tube that is a cm or two longer than the standard 62cm frame. The 1161 is the production number.

AJosiahK 03-26-2014 04:51 PM

thanks!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Dog (Post 1521210)
The L stands for Long. It would have a top tube that is a cm or two longer than the standard 62cm frame. The 1161 is the production number.

Good info!

would that make this a custom or did serotta do this normally

Keith A 03-26-2014 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJosiahK (Post 1521523)
Good info!

would that make this a custom or did serotta do this normally

No, this doesn't make it custom. For a period of time in the mid-90's, they had what they called their "long" versions.

oliver1850 04-02-2014 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vonruden (Post 1510681)
Late 70's / early 80's? My first Serotta, pondering a restore or just ride.

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psyr0u3qeq.jpg

I haven't seen very many of the BS bikes, but would guess late 1970s. At least by 1983, the serial numbers started with the last 2 digits of the year. Maybe one of our frame builders will comment on production capabilites of a one man shop. 577 would be better than one a week for over 10 years. Not sure when Ben brought in extra help.

That frame looks original and nice. I'd address any rust issues and ride it.

oliver1850 04-02-2014 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonk (Post 1520118)
My Serotta Colorado II serial number is SC59 00784. I believe it to be a 91 but it might be a 90. It can be seen here http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=145673

The original paint was the yellow/red fade and had the half lug on the top tube and the fillet brazed bottom bracket. Actually it appears the the bottom braket used a kind of inner lug and slipped the oversized tube on top of them (instead on inside them) so the lug is on the inside of the tubes. Heres a pic of what i mean (although its hard to see). Also, as i stated in the link, after stripping the paint I noticed the down tube was etched Tange Prestige. It was the only tube marked.

It also has the S stays and the internal brake cable on the top tube.

I'd like to see the stays. Everything else you mention indicates 1991 to me, but I don't think the S stays are consistent with a serial number that low.

oliver1850 04-03-2014 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJosiahK (Post 1520302)
have a serotta ti and am looking at the serial number now, TI as in Ti legend?, 62 for the size, but the last 5 places, yes 5, confuse me a little

TI62L1161
1161 could be the production number but what would the L mean? custom Long? or ....

interesting right? or did I miss something.

what year could this frame have been made?

You can narrow down the year by checking your frame details, paint and decal colors, and decal styles against those in the catalogs. If yours says "Ti" on the TT for example, it's 1995 or later. Shifter cable stop placement and dropout design might give you a clue as well.

There was no TT length option starting in 1995. Serotta began sizing all stock road frames the same that year, and decided on the L top tube length for frames above 52 cm. So while L appears in the serial number, there were no shorter TT stock frames after 1994 (at least for a few years), but by 1998 not all models had exactly the same geometry.

jonk 04-03-2014 08:57 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1525372)
I'd like to see the stays. Everything else you mention indicates 1991 to me, but I don't think the S stays are consistent with a serial number that low.

Here's a few pics.

oliver1850 04-03-2014 02:38 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Your stays do look a bit curvier than the ones on my CII SN 432 (blue/yellow). I don't think they are as pronounced as on the neon NHX though (the first model to get the S bend stays). The section directly in front of the dropout goes nearly straight ahead on the NHX, then curves in more sharply.

jonk 04-03-2014 03:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I just assumed they were the s stays because they curved in both directions but they're clearly not a S as your NHX.

jonk 04-03-2014 03:24 PM

1 Attachment(s)
It wasn't clear in the last photo but here's the second bend...although not that much :-(

Vonruden 04-05-2014 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliver1850 (Post 1525370)
I haven't seen very many of the BS bikes, but would guess late 1970s. At least by 1983, the serial numbers started with the last 2 digits of the year. Maybe one of our frame builders will comment on production capabilites of a one man shop. 577 would be better than one a week for over 10 years. Not sure when Ben brought in extra help.

That frame looks original and nice. I'd address any rust issues and ride it.

Thanks for the Feedback Oliver!

oliver1850 04-08-2014 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonk (Post 1525694)
It wasn't clear in the last photo but here's the second bend...although not that much :-(

The pictures with the straight-edges are appreciated. If I can find the energy, I'll try to take similar pics of S bend stays.

Cornfed 04-17-2014 11:32 PM

Mystery Serotta serial number
 
Thanks, AngryScientist, but I'm still stumped on a frame I purchased recently. Serotta HSG with serial number: HB-X000213. Got the HB, even the X0, but I'm not seeing anything that would indicate the size. What am I missing?
Thanks for any guidance.

oliver1850 04-27-2014 10:19 AM

I don't know why they changed the system to include year rather than size. With sloping TTs becoming more prevalent at the time, a comparison to traditional sizing would seem to me to be more important info to have than the year of manufacture.

4Rings6Stars 04-29-2014 12:49 PM

Trying to determine the geometry of a Legend I am selling in the classifieds...

SN = CTI 50 4617

I read that the C means it's custom...but then what does the 50 refer to? It is neither the top tube or the seat tube measurement. What does a the nominal measurement refer to if it's custom?

More pics here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=147799

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/w...psj5nrrxsf.jpg

oliver1850 04-30-2014 12:09 AM

The 50 should refer to the effective seat tube length, center to center, on sloping TT frames. In other words, where a level TT would intersect the seat tube.

Maybe that frame was designed as a dropped top tube frame, so the 50 might refer to where the TT would intersect the seat tube if it was attached to the HT with a normal amount of extension above the TT. That's just a guess.

Have someone hold a straightedge in a level position approximately where the centerline of the TT would be with a normal amount of HT showing above it. Measure up to the straightedge from the BB center and see if it's close to 50 cm.


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