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-   -   PSA's - GOOD DEALS - BARN FINDS !!!...!!!...!!! (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=232021)

Hilltopperny 10-25-2019 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clean39T (Post 2611552)
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F274051961163

Great Divide 56cm for $2250!!

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Obo as well. I wouldnt sell mine for that! Kind of shocked it's still there.

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mhespenheide 10-25-2019 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototoast (Post 2611510)
Under all real world bike angles, the effective ('level') top tube will always be longer than the actual top tube length.

Unless the top tube is actually sloping downwards (higher in the rear, lower in the front), as was the case with TT "funny" bikes and a couple of early Trek carbon fiber models.

:D

tuscanyswe 10-25-2019 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhespenheide (Post 2611556)
Unless the top tube is actually sloping downwards (higher in the rear, lower in the front), as was the case with TT "funny" bikes and a couple of early Trek carbon fiber models.

:D

I dont think the original statement holds up. Think it has to do with which is steeper of hta and sta. N if so i guess that would be the case in the reversed sloping tt as well :)?

mhespenheide 10-25-2019 06:52 PM

eBay code "TENFORME" just popped up for me; 10% off with a maximum of $50 off. Through 11/04.

prototoast 10-25-2019 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe (Post 2611553)
I dont doubt for a second your geometry is better than mine but im wondering if you are perhaps applying this example incorrectly?

seems to me that cleans idea would be correct in practise but then again ive been wrong before..

The green line in example 1 where sta is always slacker than hta will always be longer than the blue sloping line.

But in example 2 where sta is steeper than the hta it would seem to me the level tt would always come out shorter, no?

excuse my poor image but its late and i have little to work with :)

You are right, but only outside the range of realistic bike geometries. A triathlon specific bike like the Specialized Shiv has a ST angle of 77 degrees--a 13 degree slop would be the shortest TT. In order for a sloping TT to be longer than a level TT in that situation, you'd need at least a 26 degree slope.

In practice, most sloping TTs are 10 degrees or less. With a 10 degree TT slope, you'd need at least an 85 degree ST angle for a level TT to be shorter.

Clean39T 10-25-2019 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototoast (Post 2611575)
You are right, but only outside the range of realistic bike geometries. A triathlon specific bike like the Specialized Shiv has a ST angle of 77 degrees--a 13 degree slop would be the shortest TT. In order for a sloping TT to be longer than a level TT in that situation, you'd need at least a 26 degree slope.

In practice, most sloping TTs are 10 degrees or less. With a 10 degree TT slope, you'd need at least an 85 degree ST angle for a level TT to be shorter.

I get it now. Because the point on the head-tube you're measuring from for TT length is fixed, you're still going to a point that's further away as you move to level.

makoti 10-25-2019 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgolvin (Post 2611528)
I think once you've received the bike from the builder it is yours, not his (ok, hers). As the original customer I think you're entitled to receive a copy of the detailed product spec, and if they want to charge a price for their time & effort to fish it out and send it, that's fine. I guess that means that people selling their custom frame can charge a premium for including the build sheet.

But given that you bought and paid for it, you're free to do with it what you like, including selling it to someone else. If a builder really thinks that someone other than the designed-for customer riding their custom frame reflects badly on the builder, they should offer some kind of incentive that would prevent re-sale…yah right.

Of course it's yours. But outside of being a nice person, why should they do this? It's YOURS. You likely got what you want to use & lost it. How it is their problem? What other service would you expect this from? It's nice if they can help you, but if not it's not something that should be held against them. Try filing important papers a bit better.

mhespenheide 10-25-2019 07:23 PM

Added a post to the general discussion, with drawing, to explain my thoughts on effective top tube length vs. actual.

Maybe we move the discussion there?

@prototoast, I'd be interested in your thoughts there.

cgolvin 10-25-2019 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makoti (Post 2611581)
What other service would you expect this from?

Pretty much anyone from whom I ordered a custom product, and certainly if that product cost several thousand dollars. I would not object to compensating them for their time and effort to retrieve it, but I would expect them to provide it. Records get destroyed in accidents.

It's clear our opinions differ on this. Probably best to let this thread return to PSAs and move the discussion to a new General thread, if warranted.

muz 10-25-2019 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe (Post 2611553)
I dont doubt for a second your geometry is better than mine but im wondering if you are perhaps applying this example incorrectly?

proto is right, you can see this in your own drawing. HTA does not enter this calculation at all. It's a function of STA and top tube angle. For instance, if STA is 90 degrees, then horizontal top tube is the shortest possible top tube. In more typical cases, a slanted top tube will intersect the seat tube at an angle closer to 90 degrees (compared to horizontal), and will therefore be shorter.

dubrat 10-25-2019 08:02 PM

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik...000949029.html

tuscanyswe 10-26-2019 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototoast (Post 2611575)
You are right, but only outside the range of realistic bike geometries. A triathlon specific bike like the Specialized Shiv has a ST angle of 77 degrees--a 13 degree slop would be the shortest TT. In order for a sloping TT to be longer than a level TT in that situation, you'd need at least a 26 degree slope.

In practice, most sloping TTs are 10 degrees or less. With a 10 degree TT slope, you'd need at least an 85 degree ST angle for a level TT to be shorter.

Ah yes i guess its here where math is not a bad after all ;)

TDot 10-26-2019 06:08 AM

Speedvagen '09
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Speedv...QAAOSw0-5dsyjJ

Not a bad price for a complete build. At Pro's Closet

Hank Scorpio 10-26-2019 06:29 AM

Firefly 57/ 58
 
If I hadn’t bought a Chebacco I wouldn’t even post this.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/105468...group_activity

Clean39T 10-26-2019 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clean39T (Post 2611552)
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F274051961163

Great Divide 56cm for $2250!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

$1995 now!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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