Tools with tighter tolerances?
 

Are there any brands of tools, especially Allen wrenches, that aren't sand blasted or whatever to round all the edges? Seems that even my brand n ew Bondhus allen wrenches are rounded and sloppy. That's not great when torquing stainless bolts.

Honest question: how do you know it is not the bolts? That said, I have Wihas and Pedro’s that have well defined hexes.

Wera offer a hex plus design that supposedly puts more contact with the screw.

https://www-de.wera.de/en/great-tools/hex-plus/

But I agree with the above poster that precision require both the tool and the screws to be manufactured at tighter tolerances.

I have these and they work great on bolts that do not have the best head.

Both the bolts and the hex wrenches are manufactured to certain tolerance windows, and to make sure tools and bolts fit together, the tolerance windows can't overlap. But that doesn't mean precision hex wrenches can't be manufactured closer to their maximum allowed tolerances to ensure a closer fit.

Silca plating method used on their hex tools to tighten the tolerance range. Explained nicely here: https://youtu.be/7dDVVAcGoZU?si=nIMp5YPLum6PedKW

Right, and I think quality tools are much more likely than the bolts to have more thorough QC and tighter tolerances.

Really liking my wera hex plus. Definite improvement over Bondus an Ekland for stubborn hex bolts

Pb swiss

I have a set of those and the ball end torx set too. Very nice sets of tools

M

Which Bondhus version are they? They make a variety of quality levels and their higher end ones are of better quality.

As mentioned Wera Hex Plus is what you need.

All the good ones have already been mentioned, but I'll toss in Stanley Proto and Eklind as well.

I have a set of the Silca wrenches. I wouldn't pay full price because I'm cheap but at the sale price I got them at they are fantastic. Very high quality. However I never had a problem with any of the mid-grade wrenches I owned over the years either. I think my main set for the last few decades was a mid-level Bondhus.

Ive used a variety of bondhus, wera, eklind, and even Pittsburgh icon allens for my career over the last 10 years. All were the cheapest variety I could find, so I imagine lowest level. I've put them all through thorough abuse, especially throughout my apprenticeship, and they all perform the same. I always get a good laugh when I see the Silca $200 set

If the wrench fits loose, either the tip of the wrench is being rounded off from so much use, or improper engagement in the screw head... or the screw head isn't right. If the portion that engages with the screw is worn and slipping in the screw, cut the worn out part off and continue on. If it's the screw, chuck it when you are able to remove it and replace to save yourself a headache later on. Once the screw is buggered up just a little bit, it doesn't take long for it to get entirely ****ed.

I would tend to blame the bolts.

None of my tools show any wear. But I see bolts on maintenance items wear noticeably despite using a torque wrench to ensure that bolts aren’t getting stressed.

Realistically I think some of this is maintenance procedures not dictating fastener replacement like you see on motor vehicles. For a lot of similar items like caliper mounting bolts motor vehicles have aggressive replacement requirements.

On the flip side we don’t have to worry about those god awful plastic pop rivets the car manufacturers are so in love with.

I once heard that PB Swiss makes Silca wrenches. You dont get the cool box, but you do get all sorts of cool colors to choose from! Forged and plated, with individual serial numbers, they really are nice. Though they do not have sharp corners. Which I would argue, are not really needed.

PB Swiss, Bondhus and Wera are all very good across just about every tool category.

I'm definitely not a fan of wera ratchets or sockets. Love the kraftform screwdrivers and hex plus though. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.

Few things here from someone that lives pretty deep in this world.

Stainless isn't an ideal fastener material. It's just a softer material and isn't ideal for bolts, especially ones with minimal engagement like a button head socket head cap screw (SHCS). It's not uncommon to see the bolt heads deform with use, even with good tools. But hey they don't rust as easily.

Someone said they would blame the bolt and that's indeed 95% the problem. There's ISO specs for fastener sizes but when it comes to SHCS they are rarely held and are almost always over sized. This makes it a challenge for the tool manufacture, do they stick to the ISO spec for their mating tool or do they go outside that to right the wrong done by the bolt companies? Two wrongs don't make a right so they stick to ISO sizing.

What can you do about it? Well Wera's Hex Plus is a good option, though these can slightly deform the hex in the bolt. There's also Bondhus "Gold Gaurd" which run a little over ISO spec due to the thicker coating. This can sometimes be an issue but for fasteners that are poorly sized, it's great. They're also very reasonably priced and USA made. The other thing is to make sure your tools are in good shape. If the corners are showing wear, replace them or cut them down. Hex and torx tools are best thought of as semi-consumable. Sure the bougie ones last a long time but they're not going to last forever like a box end wrench will. Mostly due to the poor SHCS tolerances we see these days.

I was listening to I think the Escape Collective podcast and they were singing the praises of hex wrenches marketed to the RC car world. I forget the brand name.

Thank you Friar for the detailed answer and the use of “bougie.”

Related question: is it worthwhile to upgrade to ti bolts? Or should one just go with new not-stainless steel bolts every few years?

bolts are certainly the weak point in the scenerio in my experience; there are tools out there that have a rounded end, so much that it renders them useless in some applications

i picked up a set of metric/standard/torq keys from amazon (Lichamp i think) to have as spare (back up for the bondhus and pedros) and found that the end which was supposed to be square(ish) had enough of its edges rounded that it made them useless in several of the bolts I tried that were laying around. Ie the more short/shallow ones specifically. I regret that (more affordable) purchase 100%

Ordered myself a set of those aformentioned Hera and done

If you need the corrosion resistance then Ti is a better choice than stainless from a durability standpoint. You can also just get a plated bolt and get a pretty good at a fair price.

And MIP is the RC hex tool of lust. There are many other options though. Downside of this category of tools is they top out at 3mm.

I’ve mentioned this guy’s videos:

https://youtu.be/oTBiPjCeVwI?si=NClO-wkc0d_LWasH

Wera hex plus are the only ones I will grab when going after the Shimano road lever bleed port screw....

The Wera hex plus is really the best I have used, and they are so affordable for the quality, no reason not to own a set IMO.

Another vote for Wera. I have a long ball-end set for the bench and a stubby set for the travel bag.

Wera hex plus short are my on bike/travel hex wrenches in the needed size. At home I use pb Swiss rainbow long. The colors for both brands are useful once memorized and on the pb swiss the color goes to near the tip helping confirm proper insertion to avoid rounding of bolts.

Neither work better in practice than the Pedro’s I had for many years before them, which cost far less.

I use both the Pedro's and the Bondhus hex sets, but I'm looking for a T handled set. The Wera Hex Plus and the Whip are options. Anyone have either of these?

I have the Bondus t handle sets in hex and torx. They are nice when working on the car or other stuff, but there are a lot of places they won't fit on bikes due to their length.

OK I found it, it's a company called MIP, and the money quote from the podcast is "they make PB Swiss look cheap." However, their hex keys only go up to 3 mm, I guess RC car bolts are not any bigger than that.

I picked up some Wera wrenches and I'm shocked at how much I like them. They seem to turn screws that other tools have a hard time with. I'm sure they might be deforming some screws, but frankly I'm willing to put up with that due to their extraordinary demonstrated ability to grab even semi-stripped hex bolts.

As an example, my crappy on-bike multi-tool stripped out the seatpost binder bolt on one of my bikes. I was ready to despair - until I tried the Wera on it. It immediately grabbed the bolt and it was out with no problems whatsoever.

Wera - I'm sold, personally.

3mm and below is where rounding out hex heads is a common issue, so precision is definitely required there. 4mm and up, most Bondhaus and Elkinds are fine provided the screw isn't already messed up.

I’ve been pleased with my eklind t handles hex wrenches.

This thread has got me thinking it’s high time to invest in a set of Wera hexes. Do you all recommend the black coated version or stainless?

Didn't try any that are black. Bought both 05022087001 and 5022720001 (stainless, pricier) and kept the cheaper set as I couldn't discern a fitment difference.

This is the one I have, and the one I see sold in bike shops.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For $41, I mean, you just can't go wrong.

I love my Wera allen keys. But if you have any parts with a recessed bolt, like the pad adjustment of disc brakes like the TRP Spyres and Growtacs, the Wera wrenches wont fit past the outer cover because of how they step down from the head to the handle. Some multi tools are also like this which I found out the annoying way on a long tour and had to adjust my brakes. So if you have those brakes keep a standard 3mm around.

I use allen wrenches a lot for work. I wear out a Bondhus set every few years, 1/8" is a common size for small fan blades. I keep a fine grit aluminum oxide grinding wheel on a grinder and use it as soon as I see rounding on the end. I only need to take off less than 1/64 to get it to bite securely again.