Bye bye discounted postal rates from China to USA
 

President Trump plans to withdraw from a 144-year-old postal treaty that has allowed Chinese companies to ship small packages to the United States at a steeply discounted rate:
https://nyti.ms/2Af96SY

So, did China give the US a discount in return?

Consumers will pay the hike.

https://www.npr.org/templates/transc...ryId=634732388

NPR Planet Money had segment on the Universal Postal Union and how it works. It isn't a special discount to the chinese it is just chinese postal rates are cheaper in China and then benefit from the final mile in the US.

This was released on August 1, 2018

[QUOTE=Big Dan;2442366]Consumers will pay the hike.[/QUOTE
It’s always more complicated than the article states-

There is that tricle down thing :)

It was a stupid idea in the first place. The taxpayer does not need to be subsidizing Chinese, or any other countries, shipping

In a word, yes. All members of the Universal Postal Union have common agreed upon uniform flat rate for mail and small parcels. If you mailed a small parcel to a friend in Germany or Ghana or Ecuador from the US, you'd also get the same uniform rate as small parcels mailed from China. Often, accepting and delivering mail from other countries results in a small loss for the destination country's postal system, but it was considered a small price to pay for fostering international trade and communication. But more recently, with the rise of internet sales, the large volume of these parcels from Asia to the US has resulted in a major imbalance in costs. In affect, the US Postal Service is subsidizing the cost of shipping small items to the US from China. If the US produced small items that consumers in China were interested in buying directly from the US vendors, then there would potentially be a balance, but this is not currently the case.


And I disagree that it was a bad idea in the first place. When the Universal Postal Union was set up in 1874 (it was originally proposed by the US in 1863), it was a very good idea to foster international communication. Unfortunately, it's policies and agreements have not kept up with the times. Rather than from withdrawing from the agreement, the US should push for a change in terms.

"In recent years UPU members have encountered serious problems triggered by the enormous increase in e-commerce originating from the Far East, where the terminal dues do not cover the unit costs of delivery in the destination countries, and the volumes are so big that the losses cannot be compensated by better terminal dues from other traffic. In 2016 a new remuneration system was implemented with a focus on e-commerce,[13]

Though the 2016 balanced the costs to the delivery services, postage costs for shippers is still asymmetric. As of 2018, US companies pay more than twice as much to mail an item from a US plant to a US customer, than does a manufacturer in China to mail an item to a US customer."

this is from WIKI, originally from WSJ. It is cheaper for a Chinese factory to ship to a US address than a US factory. I don't think that sounds reasonable.

This is because China is still (erroneously) classified as a developing nation. In the UPU treaty, developing nations are given special discounts. When China first joined UPU decades ago, they were a developing nation - but now that they have achieved more economic wealth and power, they should be reclassified.

Yes, but why categorize at all? why not just charge market price for the service provided?

UPU is now a part of the United Nations, and the UN frequently has policies favoring developing nations.

When you say "market price", do you mean the actual cost of services in each nation, or do you mean a uniform cost for all nations? To me, it makes the most sense to have uniform cost - otherwise, you'd have a different set prices for each nation you wanted to send mail to (and that's hundreds of different nations), and the costs would vary day to day depending on exchange rates. that would be too cumbersome. Granted, there may be a better way to set the uniform costs, but I believe a uniform system is still best to promote international communication.

I mean the cost should be what the interested parties agree to. An international price fixing scheme seems a bit a bit overkill. I am sure the individual parties can come to an agreement on their own.

Good riddance. I'm wary of anything shipped from China, especially when purchased on eBay. It's likely to be counterfeit.

Inefficiencies be damned?

Thanks Mark Mcm, I was unaware of this agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union

UPU has been a tremendously good thing and I guarantee everyone here has benefitted tremendously from it. (You reading this? You benefited.)

China is taking advantage of it today, but the UPU is a significant component of CIVILIZATION. You mail something to a friend in another part of the world and it arrives. Your friend receives it because the the foreign post office delivers it to him. You didn't give those foreign postal carriers a penny, and yet it still arrived. That's because reasonable countries can work out mutually beneficial agreements.

Sure, some of those on this thread will say "I don't have friends in China, so who cares?" But I invite you consider something for a second: do you think that, just maybe, a similar agreement got mail from one state to the next across your country at one point? I'm sure some of your ancestors felt the Californians were ripping off the New Yorkers, but surely you can see there was some benefit.

The trade war continues with China..:eek:
Just in time for the midterms, more that hurts 'mainstreet'...

Where do ya shop? For those t-Shirts or socks? Maybe that new cord for to charge your phone? WH thinks he's 'hurting' China, but with China's government 'type' and financial power, this continues to hurt main street...
A trade deficit isn't 'losing'...copy to DJT...:rolleyes:

The USPS is not a shining example of efficiency. By contrast, private logistics companies are often sighted for their innovations.

Not the inefficiencies to which I was referring. I'm talking about the disruption of business that would come about when it's up to "individual buyers and sellers to come to an agreement on their own". Seems like a flippant statement that ignores some complex micro and macro economic consequences. That said, this isn't my wheelhouse.

Bye bye discounted postal rates from China to USA
 

Do you think this product is real or counterfeit? Loctite 220 50ml for about half of what I can find it for here for here in the US. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOCTITE-220...YAAOSwa~BYPkVR

Counterfeit bicycle handlebars, helmets, stems etc., many of which are unsafe. There was a counterfeit Specialized helmet in the news recently that wouldn't pass impact testing.

And China is hurting, just look at their stock market. The EU puts a 45% tariff on bicyles from China, much more protectionist than we are. Why don't you complain about that?

By "interested parties" I did not mean "individual buyers and sellers", I am not suggesting we abolish shipping companies. I just meant that this international treaty seems to be getting in the way of the current interested parties (USPS and China Post) from arranging an agreement that would let both entities continue to operate profitably. The USPS is currently loosing money because of the current arrangement and apparently they are not allowed to raise their prices, this does not seem reasonable to me.

Prices will rise when importing items from China, perhaps it will be more expensive to ship to China as well. I just don't see how we can expect the USPS to ship items from China at a loss. They should be free to negotiate a price that makes sense for their operation.

Item is real loctite made by Henkel Loctite Asia Pacific
and
Made in China

That's what it says, if you believe that.

I'm complaining about the current trade war with China(and potentially with the other 'foes', the EU, SouthKorea, Japan, Canada, Mexico) that will do nothing but pump up one individuals ego(tough guy!) but hurt the 'guy in the street', meaning you and me. PLUS it's based on an ignorant, comic book version of what trade deficits and surpluses really mean, particularly when one 'guy' can't even agree on the amounts..

I got some and Ebay seller has sold tons of this stuff and seller is not from China.. so discount rate doesn't apply...

Bye bye discounted postal rates from China to USA
 

I bought a set of fake Bose QC35 headphones. Seller was from Malaysia and product shipped from China.

Maybe this Loctite is legit, maybe it isn't. I believe I'm rightfully suspicious and you have no definitive proof either way.

+1.

However, USPS has a lot of problems, and I suspect this is a pretty small one. I'd love to see the USPS allowed to sell non-mail products at their offices. Sort of like a convenient store, that also does mail. Their problems are big, need to be addressed on the revenue side as well as the cost side.

But on this topic, there's a big difference between, a policy meant to facilitate individuals sending parcels to each other (which I can see the argument for reciprocal subsidies), and a policy that subsidizes profit making businesses to send parcels. The latter, in my opinion can pay their fair share if they are making a business out of sending products to customers.

Bye bye discounted postal rates from China to USA
 

Does this affect product purchased from UK vendors like Merlin Cycles, CRC, Ribble, Wiggle, etc.? I've bought stuff from Merlin with free shipping. I mean I think this postal treaty covers more countries than just China?

One of USPS's biggest problems is their requirement to prefund their retirement liabilities instead of a pay as you go scheme like almost every other organization on the planet. This prevented them from reinvesting profits into the business for 11+ years (2006-2017)

https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/fi...2010_4_002.htm

I'm confused by some of the arguments here. Do we not agree that the USPS is a governmental agency and not an independent for-profit entity? I'm not saying that it shouldn't be able to act in the interest of the organization, but I am saying that if it had done so throughout its history then there would have been serious detrimental costs to American society writ large over the last 150 years. Are you essentially saying "yes, but that was then and this is now and they should more or less be privatized or otherwise behave as a purely for-profit entity"?

Seller feedbacks help...99.9% from that seller of loctite

USPS gets no money from the federal government, it does benefit from a legal monopoly on first class mail and some tax policies. It has to pay for itself and unless we are prepared to compensate it as taxpayers through subsidies for cheaper mail from China it should be allowed to try and establish prices that allow it to stay in business.

I am actually curious and not being a smart ass, what "serious detrimental costs to American society" do you speak of?

We may have been spared this whole Armstrong saga if the USPS wasn't looking out for itself by marketing its name in Europe. I assume that was the serious detrimental costs to society he was talking about.

:fight:

It's Friday. :) A little humor never hurt anyone.


For real though, junk mail strikes me as the kind of weird social cost that the USPS ignited. Virtually no one wanted unsolicited mail, yet the postal service gave these mailers steep discounts on rates, and expanded their physical and human infrastructure to cope with the increased volume of junk mail.

Much like the debate about parcels from China, had the USPS priced junk mail to reflect a natural market rate, it would have kept volumes lower.

Another example, I bought some KMC quicklinks from this Amazon seller rated 4.3 out of 5 https://www.amazon.com/KMC-Missing-1...r&pageNumber=2

I had several of them break and, if you read some of the reviews, there is some evidence that they are knockoffs from China.

It's debatable as to whether they are counterfeit or not, but I'm just saying that a good seller rating does not necessarily mean that a product they are selling is authentic.

I don't know much about the junk mail. I don't think anybody forced the post office to do it so I would imagine they made money off of the whole thing. I hate junk mail.

Tell me what private company is going to do your first class mail for 45 cents?
Have you ever worked for the Post Office?
Btw the junk mail helps the post office, it's what we used to do on Saturdays.