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FlashUNC 09-12-2020 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wc1934 (Post 2793263)
But he isn't getting paid to shoot - That is what Walker, Tatum, Brown and Hayward are supposed to do - If they get 12 a nite from Smart they will be more than happy.

Then why in God's name is he taking 10 threes in a game 7?

Can't have it both ways.

FlashUNC 09-12-2020 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xeladragon (Post 2793261)
Granted, I'm a Celtics fan, but I 100% disagree with this, and I'd bet most NBA GMs would disagree with you too.

He's a streaky shooter, and he flops on occasional, but not sure what else you can complain about.

Beverly isn't exactly an offensive threat either... 41% career FG%.

No, but he's a better career 3 point shooter and better perimeter defender than Smart.

If what you're paying for is perimeter D and the occasional catch and shoot 3, Beverley is the better choice.

Teams weren't exactly beating down the door to sign the guy in the summer of 2018. There's lots better 3 and D options in the league than him. Avery Bradley comes to mind...

Spaghetti Legs 09-12-2020 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybee (Post 2793277)
Everyone is getting paid to shoot at this level. One guy you don’t have to guard means the defense gets a lot more flexibility on schemes and switches.

Not everyone - Ben Simmons comes to mind first. Rondo close behind. I’m firmly in the Smart fan club. Offense is spotty but good enough that he has to be guarded on the perimeter. His shooting and decision making will get better with time but right now, he’s the kind of player that makes a difference in a deep playoff run. Same goes with Butler although I don’t see he’s the exact same type of player. I think he is under appreciated for the role he had on Philly’s team last season.

xeladragon 09-12-2020 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC (Post 2793356)
No, but he's a better career 3 point shooter and better perimeter defender than Smart.

If what you're paying for is perimeter D and the occasional catch and shoot 3, Beverley is the better choice.

Teams weren't exactly beating down the door to sign the guy in the summer of 2018. There's lots better 3 and D options in the league than him. Avery Bradley comes to mind...

Smart was a terrible shooter his first few years, so if you're looking at career numbers, then yes, his percentages are lower. But he's gotten better. Last two years, he's not that far behind Beverley.

Beverley is a good, pesky defensive player. Both have made several all-defensive teams (Smart 1st team last 2 years BTW). But Smart isn't just a perimeter D guy. He can guard 1-4, and he's usually tasked with guarding the other team's best guy. Against Toronto, it was either Lowry, VanVleet, or Siakam. Against the Bucks, he's guarding Giannis, etc. Against the Heat, it'll be Butler.

I think you're severely underselling Smart as a 3-and-D guy. Bradley and Beverley, sure. Smart is a more complete player (penetration, passing, etc.)... and his value to the team often doesn't show up in just a box score.

Anyway, hoping the C's can make it to the Finals this year. Don't expect them to win it all... either LA team would be extremely tough to beat. They'd probably have a slightly better chance against the Clippers though. C's haven't been able to beat Lebron since the Pierce/KG/Allen days.

XXtwindad 09-12-2020 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xeladragon (Post 2793397)
Smart was a terrible shooter his first few years, so if you're looking at career numbers, then yes, his percentages are lower. But he's gotten better. Last two years, he's not that far behind Beverley.

Beverley is a good, pesky defensive player. Both have made several all-defensive teams (Smart 1st team last 2 years BTW). But Smart isn't just a perimeter D guy. He can guard 1-4, and he's usually tasked with guarding the other team's best guy. Against Toronto, it was either Lowry, VanVleet, or Siakam. Against the Bucks, he's guarding Giannis, etc. Against the Heat, it'll be Butler.

I think you're severely underselling Smart as a 3-and-D guy. Bradley and Beverley, sure. Smart is a more complete player (penetration, passing, etc.)... and his value to the team often doesn't show up in just a box score.

Anyway, hoping the C's can make it to the Finals this year. Don't expect them to win it all... either LA team would be extremely tough to beat. They'd probably have a slightly better chance against the Clippers though. C's haven't been able to beat Lebron since the Pierce/KG/Allen days.

Agreed. I’d take Smart over Beverley as well. More versatile. He reminds me of a burlier Shawn Marion in terms of the type of player he can guard.

FlashUNC 09-12-2020 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xeladragon (Post 2793397)
Smart was a terrible shooter his first few years, so if you're looking at career numbers, then yes, his percentages are lower. But he's gotten better. Last two years, he's not that far behind Beverley.

Beverley is a good, pesky defensive player. Both have made several all-defensive teams (Smart 1st team last 2 years BTW). But Smart isn't just a perimeter D guy. He can guard 1-4, and he's usually tasked with guarding the other team's best guy. Against Toronto, it was either Lowry, VanVleet, or Siakam. Against the Bucks, he's guarding Giannis, etc. Against the Heat, it'll be Butler.

I think you're severely underselling Smart as a 3-and-D guy. Bradley and Beverley, sure. Smart is a more complete player (penetration, passing, etc.)... and his value to the team often doesn't show up in just a box score.

Anyway, hoping the C's can make it to the Finals this year. Don't expect them to win it all... either LA team would be extremely tough to beat. They'd probably have a slightly better chance against the Clippers though. C's haven't been able to beat Lebron since the Pierce/KG/Allen days.

And I see a guy who craps the game away more than he helps, trying to do far too much outside his skill set. And what he has for a skill set is simply meh.

He's never going to be enough of an outside threat to really stretch defenses, and any defensive advantages you get are offset by the lack of offensive versatility.

It's all academic, whoever shows up in teh Finals will be getting steamrolled by one of the Los Angeleses anyways.

East Finals will need to break out the fainting couches for all the histrionics and theatrics we're in for.

Spaghetti Legs 09-12-2020 09:20 PM

Looks like the Houston small-ball experiment is officially a failure.

FlashUNC 09-12-2020 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs (Post 2793686)
Looks like the Houston small-ball experiment is officially a failure.

Eh, LA had to go small with Houston, so I wouldn't call it a failure. McGee and Howard disappeared after Game 1 and their 23 combined minutes. Once they did the series opened up in their favor. Hell, Seven Seconds or Less Suns never made a Finals either, but they're not less influential as a result.

Their bigger issue was Russell Westbrook playing like he forgot how basketball works for four games.

Spaghetti Legs 09-12-2020 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC (Post 2793705)
Eh, LA had to go small with Houston, so I wouldn't call it a failure. McGee and Howard disappeared after Game 1 and their 23 combined minutes. Once they did the series opened up in their favor. Hell, Seven Seconds or Less Suns never made a Finals either, but they're not less influential as a result.

Their bigger issue was Russell Westbrook playing like he forgot how basketball works for four games.

Maybe not, but if the object was to get them to the finals, struggling past OKC and laying a big turd against a lukewarm Lakers isn’t a strong endorsement of the method, at least not with that lineup. Definitely needs a tuneup if OKC can adapt and take you to 7 games. Houston’s off season is going to be interesting.

akelman 09-12-2020 10:28 PM

There are a bunch of different ways of defining success and failure (take note: I'm very spiritual and a very deep thinker), but I'd say this is probably the end of D'Antoni's and Morey's run in Houston. And I wonder just how much money Fertitta has lost in the last six months. All in all, I think the Rockets' future is pretty grim.

Jaybee 09-12-2020 10:39 PM

Russ was clearly not healthy throughout the entire playoffs, and a Westbrook that doesn't trust his body isn't the same player. I don't think they beat the Lakers even if he is healthy, but its worth considering.

As for the failure of the idea of small-ball, I think it was actually a success in that they took 1 all-NBA player, half of another one (see above) and still made the conference semis. They forced teams to play their style, introduced some variance and gave themselves a chance. I don't think a Harden/Capela PNR centered team can play Russ can get there.

More broadly, since this may be the end of the DAntoni era, let's pour one out for one of the games great mad scientists, a guy with the courage of his convictions to try some new stuff, without whom we don't have the modern NBA. No SSOL Suns, then there's no Curry Warriors, no Spurs beautiful game, and so on. Thanks for throwing some **** against the wall, coach.

XXtwindad 09-12-2020 10:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybee (Post 2793724)
Russ was clearly not healthy throughout the entire playoffs, and a Westbrook that doesn't trust his body isn't the same player. I don't think they beat the Lakers even if he is healthy, but its worth considering.

As for the failure of the idea of small-ball, I think it was actually a success in that they took 1 all-NBA player, half of another one (see above) and still made the conference semis. They forced teams to play their style, introduced some variance and gave themselves a chance. I don't think a Harden/Capela PNR centered team can play Russ can get there.

More broadly, since this may be the end of the DAntoni era, let's pour one out for one of the games great mad scientists, a guy with the courage of his convictions to try some new stuff, without whom we don't have the modern NBA. No SSOL Suns, then there's no Curry Warriors, no Spurs beautiful game, and so on. Thanks for throwing some **** against the wall, coach.



Objection. Elision of history from the fine gentleman from Colorado. Once upon a time, long before his foray into herbology, there was a man who employed 6’7 guards at center. Who was one of the earliest champions of the European game. Who had Pop as an assistant coach.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mys...cy-3457356.php

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si....-bucks-raptors

Also, FWIW, the Spurs “beautiful game” pre-dated SSOL. Champs in ‘99, ‘03 and ‘05. TD/21 4EVER.

FlashUNC 09-12-2020 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelman (Post 2793723)
There are a bunch of different ways of defining success and failure (take note: I'm very spiritual and a very deep thinker), but I'd say this is probably the end of D'Antoni's and Morey's run in Houston. And I wonder just how much money Fertitta has lost in the last six months. All in all, I think the Rockets' future is pretty grim.

Probably, and I think that's a sad day given Fertitta seems to be, by all indications, a grade a dipwad, and this team will likely become something more anonymous and boring.

The Morey Rockets have always at least been interesting, which is more than you can say for 20-plus franchises in the league. And the Harden deal was an all-time fleecing of a squad.

I don't think there's ever been a team built so specifically around their All-World talent's skills quite as much as the recent vintage Rockets, whether it's with Capela in that PnR nightmare, or now hyper small ball space and pace.

akelman 09-12-2020 11:36 PM

I'm a huge D'Antoni fan and think Morey's a fascinating guy. I also think people tend to overlook the reality that the Rockets came VERY close to bigger things more than once. The truth is, the line between winning and losing, once you get deep into the playoffs, is thin. But this year's team, though, as you say, fascinating, wasn't any kind of a threat to the Lakers or the Clippers. That they mortgaged the future to go all in is brutal, but I still admire them for trying.

FlashUNC 09-13-2020 02:58 AM

They were a pulled Chris Paul hamstring away from the Finals. And gave that Warriors team all they could handle.


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