Need tips for getting into cross

[jwb96]

I have what may be a pipe dream of doing some cross races this fall. But first things first: I need a cross bike. Even if I don't end up racing, I can retire my old road bike and use a cross bike for winter commuting here in Maine. I'm thinking some fatter, possibly studded tires could extend my riding season a bit.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide between a whole bike or a frame. For this bike I don't want steel because it's going to be my wet/snow bike and don't want to have to deal with rust issues. So suggestions for either, without breaking the bank?

And if I go the frame route, I could take at least some parts at least from the retired road frame. My main concern is the crank: can I get cross-appropriate chainrings for an Ultegra double (9-speed) or do I need to think about a new crank?

Thanks,
Jim

[Bruce K]

Jim;

You can get 48/38 rings for your Ultegra and they work for cross thought the trend seems to be for more like 46 for a big ring.

First off, check out www.cyclocrossworld.com for parts and info. Their brick and mortar store is Bay Road Bike in Hamilton, MA. Talk to Stu Thorne.

Now is the time to be looking for used cross stuff as the season is almost here.

Red Line, Fuji,and Kona (to name a few) make fairly inexpensive cross bikes and all of those are aluminum. There are plenty of others out there so check with your LBS to see what brands they carry.

Good luck. Come to the Gloucester, MA double header the last weekend in October to see some great cross.

BK

[97CSI]

If you are just getting started order a cross bike from e-RICHIE. It should be ready when you are.

[Ginger]

Gee, nobody's asked if you've started running yet...

[e-RICHIE]

i use 38-42 and most of my mates
are using 38-44. i live in the 38 except
for races like highland park and
gloucester. my cassette is 12-27.

[97CSI]

Gee, nobody's asked if you've started running yet...And don't forget to carry you bike on your shoulder when you do.

[coylifut]

i use 38-42 and most of my mates
are using 38-44. i live in the 38 except
for races like highland park and
gloucester. my cassette is 12-27.

have you started running yet?

[Bruce K]

what's running got to do with it? gasp! hack! cough! wheeze!

:rolleyes: :crap: :D

BK

[Big Dan]

I thought today was "take a shot at French people day"..........


:bike:

[DfCas]

The most common mistake is not practicing dismounts and remounts.I've seen this over and over.EVERY new rider around here gets trashed from running and getting on and off the bike,and this shows about halfway thru the race.Do it thousands of times,until you can do it in the dark.

Although most cross bikes have a high bottom brackets,I hate high BB's and always choose a bike with 7cm or more drop.It lowers the saddle,making remounts easier,and improves stability.

Start out easy and work your way into the race,the idea being to finish strong.You can destroy yourself in a minute or two in cross.Not that I've done that:)

dan

[e-RICHIE]

i've never run for cross.
the running sections are normally short and
i feel that fitness from cycling is enough.
(for me it is!).

[Ginger]

Yeah...practice getting back on your bike. I was watching race a few years back and the last part of the course went:
hard right
steep 30' down hill or so,
then a set of obstacles followed by
a steep 40' run uphill
and a 20-30 yard dash to the finish line;
the leaders in the A race came down the hill, dismounted smoothly (a beautiful sight really), ran the barriers and the hill back up and jumped on their bikes for the sprint to the finish except the guy who missed his saddle and hit his top tube turned white and barely stayed on the bike, but he still managed to finish ahead of the pack before he crumpled. It was a shame 'cause I think he was 1 or 2 coming off the hill.

[Climb01742]

i use 38-42 and most of my mates
are using 38-44. i live in the 38 except
for races like highland park and
gloucester. my cassette is 12-27.

interesting thread. i was also thinking about dipping a toe into the cross muck. this may be a dumb question (my favorite kind) but why such a small gap between rings? how steep or long are most "hills" on cross courses? if things get steep, is that when folks run? again, please forgive the newbie questions.

[97CSI]

Not a direct answer for your question, but courses are different. Some have hills so steep, with obstacles, that you must dismount and run up, or down. Some have long sand pits that are long enough and deep enough that not even the lightest and strongest riders can get all of the way through on their bikes. Etc. While we can describe all of this in words, actually watching a race and walking the course will be the best teacher (next to riding it yourself).

[Andreu]

I used steel for cross in northern Europe. No problems.
Remember those Alan cross bikes.....weren't they French (and Aluminium too)? ......
The hills are steep (but not killers in comparison to a road race or mountain) and not particularly long as I remember and can be climbed on 38-44 with a 26 (in my case when I was fit for such races), the 12 would be used on downhill/flat parts like road sections. I have finished races on a road section when a sprint was needed.
You need to run when there are obstacles and when it is physically impossible to stay upright on your bike (depends on skill and strength of rider) - e.g. going up hill in mud, too many slower riders in front of you etc. Gearing and knowing when to run depends on the strength and skill of the rider. I always went running training for maybe a couple of months before Christmas.
A
vive la diffèrence!
Vive Danny de Bie bunny hop!

[DfCas]

I have a bad ankle and can't train to run,so I have a good excuse....

In answer to Climbs question about rings,a lot of people run single fronts with a chain guard,since it eliminates the possibility of dropping the chain.It is also common for riders to drop the bike and bounce the chain off the front ring.The max speeds are not that high(compared to road racing) and you lose weight and gain more useful gears with a smaller big ring.You may also find a course where the added clearance is useful.

I pitted for a friend (national age group champ) at Nationals recently and chuckled to find his 8 speed cassette was 13-13-15-17-19-21-24-28.He said if it came to a sprint,he could just slam the bar end shifter and get a 13.Then he confessed that the 13's were what he had when he put the wheel together.

Since the Nationals are back east this year,I hope to attend.Maybe I'll have the honor of meeting some forum members there.

dan

[e-RICHIE]

interesting thread. i was also thinking about dipping a toe into the cross muck. this may be a dumb question (my favorite kind) but why such a small gap between rings? how steep or long are most "hills" on cross courses? if things get steep, is that when folks run? again, please forgive the newbie questions.


it's not about the inclines as much as it is about
the surface conditions; wet grass, mud, snow, etc.
riding through it at race speed requires high cadence
and smaller gears are the solution.
i train at a local fairground. it is dead flat. nearly
all my riding is in the 38-19 and 21, and even that
feels like a big gear when i am tired.
oh - and the 32 pounds of pressure in the tires
also bogs you down, but is needed for traction.

[Ginger]

Ah now...speaking of bunny hops...that's a question I have...not that I could do them...

Do they now allow bunny hops? I've seen riders bunny hop the obstacles on the practice laps, but I thought previously they didn't allow them to bunny hop in the race itself.

[Brian Smith]

Ah now...speaking of bunny hops...that's a question I have...not that I could do them...

Do they now allow bunny hops? I've seen riders bunny hop the obstacles on the practice laps, but I thought previously they didn't allow them to bunny hop in the race itself.

It's up to the organisers.

Mandatory dismount areas are such an excuse for lame course makers to progenate lame riding it makes me sad. Give people a necessity to or benefit to be received from dismounting, and they'll do it on their own.

History.

If you can jump triple, and it's faster, you jump triple.
If you can jump triple but it's faster to jump double and roll one, you jump double and roll one.

[e-RICHIE]

you can hardly bunny hop a uci barrier, yet
guys like wells and sundt can. the rule of the
is if you can't hop it EVERY time, don't do it.
the time you lose on the one flub will more
than negate any advantange you may have
picked up earlier.

uci regs mandate only 2 sets af barriers per
race, iirc. non uci races may have those mamby
pamby 7" barriers. hop those!

[e-RICHIE]

If you can jump triple, and it's faster, you jump triple.
If you can jump triple but it's faster to jump double and roll one, you jump double and roll one.

i've never seen a triple barrier.
where dis?

[Andreu]

about US but they allow them over this side of the pond (at least they did when I raced which was about 15 years ago). I have seen two people "get away with it" almost effortlessly in pro racing one was Danny de Bie the other was Eric de Vlaeminck. I can't even do them when I am practicing and no one is looking.
A
PS Alan cross bikes are Italian not French

[Ginger]

Hmmm...the races I've watched in Michigan have triple barriers.

Here's a nice photo of the kiss cross series with four:
http://www.kisscross.com/index.html

Cross racing is the only racing I've been tempted by. It gives you something to do during the race along with all the usual race stuff.

[e-RICHIE]

about US but they allow them over this side of the pond (at least they did when I raced which was about 15 years ago). I have seen two people "get away with it" almost effortlessly in pro racing one was Danny de Bie the other was Eric de Vlaeminck. I can't even do them when I am practicing and no one is looking.
A
PS Alan cross bikes are Italian not French

the uci barrier height is higher now
than in edv's era!

[Brian Smith]

you can hardly bunny hop a uci barrier, yet
guys like wells and sundt can. the rule of the
is if you can't hop it EVERY time, don't do it.
the time you lose on the one flub will more
than negate any advantange you may have
picked up earlier.

uci regs mandate only 2 sets af barriers per
race, iirc. non uci races may have those mamby
pamby 7" barriers. hop those!


I've only done non-UCI races, I'm just a mamby pamby 'crosser.
Single barriers at speed up to about a foot, I'm hoppin.'
To be told "that's a mandatory dismount section" is saddening/maddening.

If they're placed (as they often are) so close together that you don't have time, at speed, to land after one then hop the next, then ya gotta run 'em. That's the 'lame course' kinda setup, unless maybe they're 30" tall...


the double/triple thing was a BMX/MX reference. I think there are parallels to be drawn among different disciplines of bike racing on manmade courses, like 'cross and BMX/MX. There can be conflicts between making a course that challenges the best and making a course that anyone can "do," as well as other similar problems. When the thing at issue is simply barrier design and placement, it's less costly to work it out and get it right.

[Andreu]

suspected edv was a bit of a wimp.... 40 cm is almost a fence!

UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
The course may include a single section of planks. This obstacle must consist of two planks placed 4 m apart. The planks must be solid for their entire height and not made of metal. They must have a height of 40 cm and extend the entire width of the course. In races for Junior Men and Women, it is recommended that a parallel course avoiding this obstacle should be used.
(from http://www.uci.ch/imgArchive/Rules/5cycl-E.pdf)
A

[e-RICHIE]

suspected edv was a bit of a wimp.... 40 cm is almost a fence!

UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
The course may include a single section of planks. This obstacle must consist of two planks placed 4 m apart. The planks must be solid for their entire height and not made of metal. They must have a height of 40 cm and extend the entire width of the course. In races for Junior Men and Women, it is recommended that a parallel course avoiding this obstacle should be used.
(from http://www.uci.ch/imgArchive/Rules/5cycl-E.pdf)
A


i think the 40cm height rule was changed in the
recent era. i saw edv win the worlds at crystal palace
in 73. i think the barriers - heck, the entire sport,
was different then.

[Andreu]

I have a book by Simon Burney from 1990 on Cyclo-cross and altough the general advice still holds even this looks dated now with descriptions of bar end gear levers, toe clips etc.

I often wonder whether mountain biking has hindered or helped cross. Do they allow MTBs in US cross races? I am not sure they still allow them in amateur cyco-cross races in Europe or not.
A

[e-RICHIE]

you can use them in some local and cat 5 races.
in usac and uci events, it's a wheel diameter
thing, not an mtb thing. i've seen straight bars
in uci races but never 26" wheels.

[zeroking17]

The Simon Burney book already mentioned is good. But the new Solutions for Cyclo-Cross dvd from Adam Hodges Myerson is an even better resource for learning the basic bike-handling skills. Unless you have someone who can coach you in person, I'd suggest both the book and the video.

DVD: http://www.cycle-smart.com/store/home.html
Book: http://tinyurl.com/cd8lc

BTW, the dvd also shows a really nice Zanconato 'cross bike.

[shinomaster]

just get a cheap cross frame like a kona or a cannondale and build it up with old parts...

[Ginger]

Oooo, now here's a question for all you cross racers out there...

Cow bells...what *is* appropriate cow bell ettiquite for spectators. (I know I know...if you don't know, don't bring a cow bell...)

[coylifut]

Oooo, now here's a question for all you cross racers out there...

Cow bells...what *is* appropriate cow bell ettiquite for spectators. (I know I know...if you don't know, don't bring a cow bell...)

do you rember the parody of Blue Oyster Cult on SNL? It's like that. The cowbell is an instrument that can't be overused. It should never be underused. It's most appropriately used adjacent to run ups.

[e-RICHIE]

do you rember the parody of Blue Oyster Cult on SNL?


priceless

[Ginger]

Yep, Why do you think I asked?

I thought the bumping and grinding would be a bit much for the cross crowd....

More Cowbell!

[coylifut]

http://www.geekspeakweekly.com/cowbell/

[aLexis]

I fear the reaper.

[christian]

Don't fear the reaper.

[csb]

I fear the reaper.

come on baby