What's the Market Value of an Ottrott?

[kohagen]

Yes, I know the answer. "What a buyer is willing to pay for it, and a seller is willing to sell it for."

But a friend has a 2002 Ottrott, 58x57.5 that I'd like to buy, and neither of us have a reasonably accurate idea of what the market value is. We'd like to get some input so both of us will feel that the price is reasonable, and neither one looks back in a month or two and thinks he was had.

The bike is in pretty nice shape. It could use new decals, since some of them are scraped a bit. Otherwise, a couple of scuffs on the Ti, but nothing you'd notice from more than a couple of feet away. Clear coat over the carbon, bare Ti. DA 7800 group, Ksyrium SL wheels, Serota carbon/Ti seatpost and the Serotta logo embroidered on the saddle, Ritchey Superlogic bar and Matrix stem.

Your pricing ideas are appreciated.

[achurch]

As comparison:

$1200 for frame/fork/headset--about the same vintage.... Built out with used DA 7800 (including wheels) and an adequate non-carbon cockpit for $2500 all in. Felt like it was a great deal (and my brother, whom it was for, rides it like he stole it:-).

Late last winter:
Other brother was jealous-- Bought/built a Seven for him (also about 2002, also DA 7800) for a little bit less---but not much.

[Pete Serotta]

Less than $2000 and more than a $1000. It really depends on how much you like it and how much the friend wants to make space and get the bike count down by one.

The smile on your face and the fit of the frame are the final decision points, at least for me

Pete

[pdmtong]

Less if non-ST/carbon rear

[kohagen]

Less if non-ST/carbon rear
Carbon TT/DT, rest are Ti.

[AngryScientist]

i agree with PETE, the big picture is this is a decade old bike. i would think no more than 14 - 1500

[dekindy]

It would also depend whether it fits you exactly and how hard that fit is to find in the marketplace. If they come up for sale all the time then no big deal but if this is something you have been looking for a long time then maybe step up and get what you want. Knowing the exact history of the bike and nature of the seller has value also. I guess what I am trying to say is to not let a little money stand in your way. Plus if he really likes it and regrets selling it you may have a built-in market to sell for the price you paid for it if you ever desire.

[alancw3]

non st rear end then i would think a fair price would be around $1500 if it fit you perfectly. otherwise even less. oh and if not an f3 fork then deduct another $100-$200.

[veloduffer]

I think I paid about $1000 last year for my Ottrott (non-carbon rear) with CK headset. This was frame and fork

[flydhest]

For the complete bike I was going to put it around $2k.

[Mike748]

2002 is going to be F1 or F2 fork. 1" seems to be less desireable so lower if F1. I'd still $1k f/f/hs; 1500-2000 complete depending on age/condition of components. I'd pay more for a non ST as the bearing replacement is a pain, or so I've read.

[bobswire]

I think a $1000- $1200 is more than fair depending on fork and HS.

I had purchased two great frames for $1000 last year, 2002 Seven Axiom which I'd put up against an Ti frame from that era and 2007 CDA.

[Pete Serotta]

nothing wrong with an F1 or F2 fork but they might be just one inch threaded - but it could be threadless and the F1 fork is fine but will only accept less than 25mm in front.

As to st or non st....both work well and my son in law has my non st Ottrott and if he gets tired of it - - - I will have it back for I do not see a negative in the ride.

It gets back to what you like but I do not see $100 off for F1 or F2 (for it is 10 years old and at that time it was F2 and switching toward an inch and an 1.8th

Also St or not St rear is personal and one is not inferior just different.


just me but the range is all in the same ballpark and if a friend then you both need to be happy AND keep the price to yourselves unless you all want to publish.

Price is in the eye of the beholder and seller. :D :D

[pdmtong]

Carbon TT/DT, rest are Ti.

with all due respect to pete, wouldnt most here say the characteristic, perhaps iconic, award winning "ride" of the ottrott is defined in part by the carbon ST rear?

I would.

So, while the rigid rear 2002 is an ottrott, it is an early ottrott.

Far be it for me to spend your money, but if you want an ottrott, I'd wait for one with a ST rear.

If the price you agree upon with your friend is all you have, then buy it and go ride it

[1centaur]

I'd triangulate at $1400 and you won't be more than $300 off either way. If $300 will change the relationship, don't do the deal.

[Ken Robb]

I get the feeling that some folks are pricing it as a full bike but some are valuing it as frame/fork/headset. $1200 for any Ottrot with 7800 group and Ksyriums would seem to be a steal to me.

[happycampyer]

It would also depend whether it fits you exactly and how hard that fit is to find in the marketplace. If they come up for sale all the time then no big deal but if this is something you have been looking for a long time then maybe step up and get what you want. Knowing the exact history of the bike and nature of the seller has value also. I guess what I am trying to say is to not let a little money stand in your way. Plus if he really likes it and regrets selling it you may have a built-in market to sell for the price you paid for it if you ever desire.This is spot on imo. Fit, condition, age, appearance (is it a finish/paint scheme that appeals to you?), and knowledge of history are all factors, so the range in prices appears to wider than for, say, a used C-50 or 585.

I recently purchased an '06 Ottrott in excellent condition to replace a demo Ottrott that I bought a while back that was too small for me. The geometry is perfect for me, and the toptube is almost level (which is what I was looking for). The ride is quiet and buttery smooth—I think used Ottrotts are some of the best values in the used market.

[pdmtong]

I wonder where the market is for new ottrotts in todays world of custom steel and go-fast carbon. I doubt I'd be looking at buying one new, but as an owner of a 2005, I have to say the bike rides beautifully and is my choice when doing a century. so, yes, agreed with happy that they are a GREAT deal used. I coulldnt be happier with mine. somedays I think about selling it, but after riding it remember just how solid and smooth it is.

[RedRider]

I wonder where the market is for new ottrotts in todays world of custom steel and go-fast carbon. I doubt I'd be looking at buying one new, but as an owner of a 2005, I have to say the bike rides beautifully and is my choice when doing a century. so, yes, agreed with happy that they are a GREAT deal used. I coulldnt be happier with mine. somedays I think about selling it, but after riding it remember just how solid and smooth it is.

New 2012 Serotta Ottrott SE $7295 frame with F3 fork. With full Tried n True - Ultegra group incl wheels, Zipp cockpit, etc. ride away less pedals $9125
The current Ottrott SE is one of the most popular models for Serotta. With ST bearing, "flame" lugs and the latest Serotta carbon tubing it is still the best riding, most tunable frame. As Ben says..."If I could only own one bike ..."

[pdmtong]

New 2012 Serotta Ottrott SE $7295 frame with F3 fork. With full Tried n True - Ultegra group incl wheels, Zipp cockpit, etc. ride away less pedals $9125

Cant you get a Di2 tarmac for less? soul-less, I know, but a potential alternative

[RedRider]

Cant you get a Di2 tarmac for less? soul-less, I know, but a potential alternative

And you could get a new 2012 Cannondale CAAD10 with the latest Ultegra for a bit more than the 10 year old Ottrott from the OP but hey...

[LouDeeter]

There are a couple of frames on eBay right now that should finish to give you a glimpse of market value.

[Pete Serotta]

New 2012 Serotta Ottrott SE $7295 frame with F3 fork. With full Tried n True - Ultegra group incl wheels, Zipp cockpit, etc. ride away less pedals $9125
The current Ottrott SE is one of the most popular models for Serotta. With ST bearing, "flame" lugs and the latest Serotta carbon tubing it is still the best riding, most tunable frame. As Ben says..."If I could only own one bike ..."


and if you are close to PARKRIDGE NJ go to Cyclesport and see the one that Scott and the gang built for me, It and the HSG Comp are my favorites. I will have my current Ottrot for sale in the spring. The new Ottrott will see Ride to Rockies next year. (and hopefully the red wine vineyards in the spring out in CA. :beer: with Tom Brynes,

PETE

[Climb01742]

New 2012 Serotta Ottrott SE $7295 frame with F3 fork. With full Tried n True - Ultegra group incl wheels, Zipp cockpit, etc. ride away less pedals $9125

given that the point of this thread is value, these numbers seem useful:

a new IF XS is $5995 for f/f and a seven elium SLX is $6295 kitted out with ultegra.

[happycampyer]

...and an RXRS Ulteam module is $5,800 - $6,400 , a Dogma 2 is $6,000 f/f and a Venge is $3,900 f/f. Obviously, the Venge is the best value.

[Climb01742]

...and an RXRS Ulteam module is $5,800 - $6,400 , a Dogma 2 is $6,000 f/f and a Venge is $3,900 f/f. Obviously, the Venge is the best value.

there is a difference in my list versus yours: an ottrott, a XS and an elium are all ti/carbon mix bikes made by small manufacturers who have a very good reputation for building great bikes and matching client's requests to frames delivered. i believe it is a fair apples-to-apples list; a list that most riders who were interested in a ti/carbon frame would consider. we can debate many things, but what seems borne out by the facts is that serotta asks far more for (arguably) very similar products. is that not a fair topic to raise in a thread entitled 'what's the market value of an ottrott?'

[cmg]

How much would it cost to build a Ti frame out of comparable material? Same grade/shapes. The value of the material does not decrease just because it is old. Ti does not degrade over time. Have you priced a custom Ti frame lately? and exclude chinese/taiwan ti frames from this estmate. 58x57.5 frames are a popular size, an easy sale. What would an ottrott frame and fork fetch on eBay during the middle of summer? frame/fork $1200+, DA7800 group $650, Ksyrium SL wheels $350-425+ and add something for the saddle/stem/bars etc. so not cheap by any measure. if the friend wants under $2k don't complain. Ti is forever.

[RedRider]

...and an RXRS Ulteam module is $5,800 - $6,400 , a Dogma 2 is $6,000 f/f and a Venge is $3,900 f/f. Obviously, the Venge is the best value.

If you are comparing a Custom Serotta Ottrott SE to an out of the box model from Specialized, Pinarello etc that's not apples to apples. I've owned SWorks Tarmacs and riden Dogmas. It's like comparing a Corvette to a Porsche...both good but one is clearly the best.
The OP was about a 10 yr old Ottrott. Clearly respected and desired at least by Forum members. You rarely see a 5yr old carbon bike from the "big boys" getting any interest-they are old looking and have a "dead' ride.

[kohagen]

Thanks for the info, gentlemen. It's a done deal. The seller owns a bike shop, and agreed to $1500 on my charge card, personally delivered. This nets out to about $1475, after the money back I earn on that card.

There are only a couple of nits about the bike. The rear wheel is a little out of true, and I don't yet have a tool that fits the Mavic nipples to adjust it. Also, the decals on the bare Ti are scraped in places, some more than others. The service update from BumbleBeeDave as of 11/7 says that decals will only be sold to refinishing professionals, which creates a bit of an issue for me, since the bike doesn't need to be refinished except for the decals.

Other than adjusting the seat and the shifters, the bike is ready to go.

Thanks for your input.

[christian]

That seems like a great deal to me.

[kohagen]

is a Cannondale SuperSix Evo Di2. Yes, that's right, $11,000 MSRP. He wasn't going to argue about the last dollar on the Ottrott.

And now I own my first Serotta!!!

[Wayne77]

is a Cannondale SuperSix Evo Di2. Yes, that's right, $11,000 MSRP. He wasn't going to argue about the last dollar on the Ottrott.

And now I own my first Serotta!!!

Congrats - what an awesome deal on a top notch bike. Doesn't get much better than that!

[kohagen]

Congrats - what an awesome deal on a top notch bike. Doesn't get much better than that!
Thanks! And best of luck with the sale of your Concours.

[happycampyer]

Congrats Kohagen, I'm sure you'll love it.
there is a difference in my list versus yours: an ottrott, a XS and an elium are all ti/carbon mix bikes made by small manufacturers who have a very good reputation for building great bikes and matching client's requests to frames delivered. i believe it is a fair apples-to-apples list; a list that most riders who were interested in a ti/carbon frame would consider. we can debate many things, but what seems borne out by the facts is that serotta asks far more for (arguably) very similar products. is that not a fair topic to raise in a thread entitled 'what's the market value of an ottrott?'I agree that outwardly the construction of the Ottrott, XS and the Elium is similar, but in my experience having either owned or ridden all three of them, they are as different as the Dogma, RXRS and the Venge (or insert other Pro Tour-level carbon wonderbike here) are from each other. Of the dozens of bikes I've owned (and dozens more that I've ridden), the Ottrott ST stands out as having the smoothest ride of all of them. For someone looking for a custom-made bike with the ride characteristics of the Ottrott, I would argue that it is absolutely worth the premium.

[93legendti]

Congrats Kohagen, I'm sure you'll love it.
I agree that outwardly the construction of the Ottrott, XS and the Elium is similar, but in my experience having either owned or ridden all three of them, they are as different as the Dogma, RXRS and the Venge (or insert other Pro Tour-level carbon wonderbike here) are from each other. Of the dozens of bikes I've owned (and dozens more that I've ridden), the Ottrott ST stands out as having the smoothest ride of all of them. For someone looking for a custom-made bike with the ride characteristics of the Ottrott, I would argue that it is absolutely worth the premium.
I wish I had posted this.

My '07 Ottrott ST is perfect. I have gone thru LOTS of bikes, but this is one I have enjoyed every single time I've thrown a leg over it and gone for a ride. Best bike purchase I ever made.

[Climb01742]

happycamper and adam, i'm sincerely glad that for each of you your ottrott is an amazing ride and makes you smile. my ottrott did not make me smile. but such is the nature of custom frames in my experience...the results can vary greatly from rider to rider. i believe serotta is capable of building bikes as good as anyone on earth. they clearly have for each of you. i'm glad the premium worked in your favor. a bike we love is, as mastercard says, priceless.

[93legendti]

Jim,

I didn't "pay a premium". I paid the asking price-no more no less. I wanted the Serotta ride I've enjoyed since 1993 in Ben's favorite model.

Just as my CSi and my JKS Kirk Terraplane (I didn't pay a premium for my Kirk either-just the asking price) ride differently, a carbon and ti bike by IF or Seven will not ride like a Serotta.

You have lots of bikes. I know you like Dario's bikes-surely you aren't claiming a cheaper bike made with the same materials Dario uses will ride exactly the same as a Peg?

[Bruce K]

I kind of feel like we've gotten to the point in this thread where we kind of need to agree to disagree on some of this stuff and move on.

If there's more here to discuss please feel free to start a new thread

BK