does pegoretti make frames w/o the extended HT?

[wallymann]

or is that an option that can be deleted?

[oliver1850]

I have an older catalog that shows the Palosanto with a normal length HT.

they also do custom, so...

[Ken Robb]

OTOH is asking Dario to build a bike w/o his signature HT like asking R. Sachs to build a bike without lugs?

[Lifelover]

Regardless of how they come, I'm under the impression that cutting the HT down is fairly simple.

[pdmtong]

per dario, it's not an extended headtube, it's a "dropped" TT. jerk cuts them all the time

[merckx]

Cut off what you don't want.

[rockdude]

I had one that was cut....

[Ken Robb]

I had one that was cut....

So did Lance. :eek:

[CunegoFan]

It seems to me that a somewhat extended head tube makes a lot of sense for traditional geometry frames with threadless headsets. Without the lock nuts on the headset and with carbon steer tubes limiting the amount of spacers to 25 or so millimeters, it is difficult to achieve the same bar position of a quill type stem without resorting an angled up stem. I would rather run a -17 degree stem with a 10-15mm head tube extension than an angled up stem.

[Chance]

I would rather run a -17 degree stem with a 10-15mm head tube extension than an angled up stem.
Other than better looks it doesn't accomplish much. If we get used to angled up stems like we got used to sloping top tubes then it won't be an issue. In future it may even look odd to have a level stem. Just give it time.

[CunegoFan]

Other than better looks it doesn't accomplish much. If we get used to angled up stems like we got used to sloping top tubes then it won't be an issue. In future it may even look odd to have a level stem. Just give it time.
Just guessing, but I will bet that those who want a traditional geometry frame are not too keen on non-tradional looking angled stems. I know I am not. What is more, I have the feeling that the fashion direction is going the other way. Head tubes on compact frames are being lengthened to allow people to run a higher bar position without an extremely angled stem, perhaps because it has become common for people make fun of those with stem boners.

[Chance]

The main thing that will keep it from becoming more normal is that young pros don't need the extra height. And the majority still likes buying bikes that look like those the pros ride.

[wallymann]

i personally prefer a 90deg stem, just from an efficiency perspective: shortest tubes, lowest weight, stiffest config (assuming tubing and weld strength are consistent, of course).

i'd call a pegoretti an extended head-tube instead of a dropped top-tube simply because the seat-tube is not similarly extended. a true "dropped top-tube" design is the atala/colnago "freuler" setup. the ST and HT are similar height with the TT truly dropped down below them, like this. porn-star moustache optional! ;-)

http://www.dewielersite.net/db2/wielersite/beeldbank2011/1310887796FREULERUrs.JPG

i guess i could live with a moderately extended head-tube *if* the extension were chromed or otherwise made to look less obtrusive. ATMO it really throws off the aesthetic balance of a bicycle, much like a sloped TT design does.

[Kirk007]

Dario uses the "extended headtube" mainly in larger frames 58 and larger, I was told many years ago by an early seller of Dario's frames that it was (1) dropped top tube but also (2) at least back then, Dario felt the longer headtube also helped keep the front end the way he wanted it to be (as opposed to a longer exposed steerer tube).

Anyway, I figure Dario is smarter than me about all this so if the size frame I need from Dario has a dropped top tube/extended HT (and it does) who am I to second guess him or sacrifice the performance gains that he believes are present just for the sake of vanity.

[Chance]

i personally prefer a 90deg stem, just from an efficiency perspective: shortest tubes, lowest weight, stiffest config (assuming tubing and weld strength are consistent, of course).

If you do the math and include the head tube, steerer tube, and stem length combined then 90 degree stem does not yield the shortest combined total. :)

Don't know the minimum length or angle but know it's not at stem of 90 degrees but rather something that is turned up some. That should also make it weigh less and be stiffer overall.

It'd be interesting to try to figure out what is the shortest in total. Of course lowest total weight would depend on HT weight versus steerer weight versus stem weight and so on. :beer:

[Ralph]

Italian threaded BB a lot bigger turn off to me than extended HT.

[wallymann]

if you're not getting paid to ride, ATMO pretty much all of it's vanity eh? given how important the artsy-fartsy paint is to the overall pegoretti ethos, vanity ranks pretty high up there in dario's world too.

your peg looks more like a dropped TT style with extended HT/ST...the look works well. and vanity be damed, i DIG the gangsta whitewalls!

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii145/landshark_98/P2010076.jpg

Dario uses the "extended headtube" mainly in larger frames 58 and larger, I was told many years ago by an early seller of Dario's frames that it was (1) dropped top tube but also (2) at least back then, Dario felt the longer headtube also helped keep the front end the way he wanted it to be (as opposed to a longer exposed steerer tube).

Anyway, I figure Dario is smarter than me about all this so if the size frame I need from Dario has a dropped top tube/extended HT (and it does) who am I to second guess him or sacrifice the performance gains that he believes are present just for the sake of vanity.

[Lifelover]

I think the extended HT is pretty ugly and I don't buy any BS about improved performance.

I suspect he does it simply because it makes sense. Leave it extended if you want/need the height, cut it off if you don't.

[majl]

i'd call a pegoretti an extended head-tube instead of a dropped top-tube simply because the seat-tube is not similarly extended. a true "dropped top-tube" design is the atala/colnago "freuler" setup. the ST and HT are similar height with the TT truly dropped down below them, like this. porn-star moustache optional! ;-)

Actually the top tube is dropped on Pegs 58cm and larger. I have two stock sized Pegs - one is a 57 and the other is a 58. The seat tubes on both measure 57 c-t-c. But, the seat tube on the 58 measures longer c-t-t, so it is similarly extended along with the head tube vs. that on the 57.

I run about 7-8cm of saddle-to-bar drop and with the Pegs, I can do that with minimal spacers below the stem. I dig the way it looks.

[Spin71]

Great, another post from the OP who doesn't like Pegs. You spend a lot of energy on bikes you don't get/like...Yawn
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=89841

And you're repeating yourself..

i will say i'm not a fan of the extended head-tube when the seat-tube is not correspondingly extended. it would be OK if the head-tube extension were chromed, though. that's a real nit, though.

[wallymann]

actually, in the time since that thread i've come to appreciate dario's work quite a bit. great stuff, genuine innovative takes on bike construction yet still using steel. bottom line: they're nice bikes -- what's not to like about that?

i could do without all the genuflection and self-flagellation around the altar of dario, though.


Great, another post from the OP who doesn't like Pegs. You spend a lot of energy on bikes you don't get/like...Yawn

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=89841

And you're repeating yourself..

[Chance]

If you do the math and include the head tube, steerer tube, and stem length combined then 90 degree stem does not yield the shortest combined total. :)

Don't know the minimum length or angle but know it's not at stem of 90 degrees but rather something that is turned up some. That should also make it weigh less and be stiffer overall.

It'd be interesting to try to figure out what is the shortest in total. Of course lowest total weight would depend on HT weight versus steerer weight versus stem weight and so on. :beer:
:crap: Wasn't thinking straight.

There is no lower limit other than what is practical. Making headtube and steerer shorter by allowing the stem to go up more will always result in less total length.

Was a Perry moment. :rolleyes: