Oldpotato on Campy...

[dsb]

Nice article...

http://www.bicycling.com/print/56888

Rather walk? Really? :)

[AngryScientist]

good article, thanks for posting. i like this bit:

Road cyclists can be passionate about their choice of components, but none are more notoriously passionate than Campy freaks. They wax eloquently about the curves and swooping lines of new components, create personal museums of old parts, can be stunned into silence and immobility by the sight of a complete boxed Campy tool set.

[R2D2]

Nice article...

http://www.bicycling.com/print/56888

Rather walk? Really? :)

Good on him. I'm a believer.

[soulspinner]

If you mile it up on one bike, the stuff is the best to have. People who are fortunate enough to have 5 top tier bikes spread the miles around and notice this less................

[jr59]

Yes walk!

Tell them Peter!


GREAT story, thanks for posting!

:beer: for Our own Old Potato being a star!!!!

[palincss]

It should be noted, however, that Campagnolo has a rather narrow view of cycling. It never was anything in mountain biking, and it never made any decent touring gear. Cycling is a lot bigger tent than professional racing. For that matter, these days Campagnolo doesn't have much of a presence in professional racing, either. So, while I wish them well, I think the notion that they're preserving the soul of cycling is laughable.

[Elefantino]

It should be noted, however, that Campagnolo has a rather narrow view of cycling. It never was anything in mountain biking, and it never made any decent touring gear. Cycling is a lot bigger tent than professional racing. For that matter, these days Campagnolo doesn't have much of a presence in professional racing, either. So, while I wish them well, I think the notion that they're preserving the soul of cycling is laughable.
I think it is preserving the soul of something, though. Or the mystique of something.

Elegance, maybe. Or snobbery. Or myth. Or the past. But definitely something.

I don't know that I'd go as far as Peter, but given the choice — and I have been way too many times — I go for the sexy Italian.

[AngryScientist]

I go for the sexy Italian.

amen to that brother!

[danielpack22@ma]

Great article. I enjoyed the insight into outsourcing as much as the information on Campy.

[saab2000]

They don't need to be everything to everyone just like Rolex is not a watch you buy at JC Penney and Porsche is not a car for everyone who needs an appliance with four wheels.

They have their target market pretty well cornered.

[charliedid]

Yeah, it's still just bike parts.

[AngryScientist]

an old saying that i'm fond of:

"buy the best, and you only cry once"

[jr59]

They don't need to be everything to everyone just like Rolex is not a watch you buy at JC Penney

They have their target market pretty well cornered.


lol! Just ask Peter! :D
Sorry buddy!

But I think this is the heart of the matter!

[Bob Loblaw]

Great article. The fact that campy works so well makes all this stuff even more impressive. They are doing a lot more than riding on their historic role in cycling.

BL

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

"They want the Rolex, not the Casio." SRAM isn't even a Casio, IMO.

Walk in ten feet of snow!!

[oldpotatoe]

Nice article...

http://www.bicycling.com/print/56888

Rather walk? Really? :)

Really

[sg8357]

Campaq for touring and road bikes (non-racing) ?

Campag until recently had the only repairable brifter, the only one
you can change from 10s to 9s, the only non-indexed front derailer.
So you can run any front ring combo.
Campy also had short cage front derailers that were great for
touring bikes with smaller rings and low bottom brackets.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Yeah, it's still just bike parts.
And a Porsche, Ferrari etc. is just a car.

[oldpotatoe]

It should be noted, however, that Campagnolo has a rather narrow view of cycling. It never was anything in mountain biking, and it never made any decent touring gear. Cycling is a lot bigger tent than professional racing. For that matter, these days Campagnolo doesn't have much of a presence in professional racing, either. So, while I wish them well, I think the notion that they're preserving the soul of cycling is laughable.

And I'd rather use my phone to tell time than have anything else but my 30 year old Rolex.

[oldpotatoe]

"They want the Rolex, not the Casio." SRAM isn't even a Casio, IMO.

Walk in ten feet of snow!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POKEMON-BLACK-AND-WHITE-GAME-STAINLESS-SPORT-METAL-WATCH-/170721618140

Worth every penny of that $.99

Laugh all you want but yes I am passionate about nice bicycles and nice bicycles have Campagnolo components. Just like the other thread here about dress shoes, some recommend shoes in the $500+ range because they are comfy, look great and last a long time. If you want to wear a pair of Keds with your $1000 custom suit, go ahead.....but on a bicycle, i will use Campagnolo.

Don't care if some think I am off base. I showed an older Campagnolo tattoo I had to Indurain, 'Esta loco', is what he said..so what.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Nice article...

http://www.bicycling.com/print/56888

Rather walk? Really? :)

Really.

[AngryScientist]

Don't care if some think I am off base.

I dont think you're off base for a second. I think everyone needs to be passionate about something, or a few things.

i've always said,

want a good car - go to the germans
want a good watch - go to the swiss
want good bike parts - go to the italians

[oldpotatoe]

I dont think you're off base for a second. I think everyone needs to be passionate about something, or a few things.

i've always said,

want a good car - go to the germans
want a good watch - go to the swiss
want good bike parts - go to the italians

Grazie Mille-
What he said. Plus good motorcycle? Also look to the Italians.

[jr59]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POKEMON-BLACK-AND-WHITE-GAME-STAINLESS-SPORT-METAL-WATCH-/170721618140

Worth every penny of that $.99

Laugh all you want but yes I am passionate about nice bicycles and nice bicycles have Campagnolo components. Just like the other thread here about dress shoes, some recommend shoes in the $500+ range because they are comfy, look great and last a long time. If you want to wear a pair of Keds with your $1000 custom suit, go ahead.....but on a bicycle, i will use Campagnolo.

Don't care if some think I am off base. I showed an older Campagnolo tattoo I had to Indurain, 'Esta loco', is what he said..so what.

That's a great story! The big Mig, ...so what. INDEED!

I really do like the comparison between Rolex and Campy! Both understand their market and don't stray far from it.
Besides didn't I see a Campy bike in yellow for most of this years tour?

[Elefantino]

I don't see a lot of people with Shimano or SRAM tattoos.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

I'm tired of the "Lance/Conatador/Schleck used it" nonsense. They would have used whatever component company had the better deal. FWIW, part of the reason Lance used SRAM because he has/had a stake in the company. They didn't win because of the parts on their bike. For those who love SRAM, it's cool. But, for me Campy is just more about a part that works, it's something I cannot put into words. When I first used Campy, it changed me, I sold every piece of Shimano I had, and changed everything over to Campy10, and never regretted it. Very few things have instigated such a change. When people who have access to anything prefer Campy, that says something.

[zap]

want a good car - go to the germans
want a good watch - go to the swiss
want good bike parts - go to the italians

Check

and check

and check

Great article.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Exactly. I dont think you're off base for a second. I think everyone needs to be passionate about something, or a few things.

i've always said,

want a good car - go to the germans
want a good watch - go to the swiss
want good bike parts - go to the italians

[Dave B]

I love these arguments.

I never see folks who are passionate about Shimano or SRAM. It is always, "well it works just as good" kind of stuff.

Campy fans are true fanaticals. I think the passion for the brand is more evident, more self gratifying. For whatever the reason is, people don't have as strong of a passion for the other stuff.

Me, I have ridden it all and I will only use Campy from now on...why...doesn't really matter but to me you know.

I love it.

Nothing wrong with the other stuff, but just not for me.

[redir]

as one industry insider observes: "When all of us 50-year-old guys with $6,000 bikes get too old, fat, and lazy, what are they going to do?"

Why thats why I come to Serotta forum, sell the stuff to me. :banana: :beer: :hello: :p

[fiamme red]

I have Campagnolo gruppos on a few of my bikes (C-Record, Chorus 10-speed), but they're just bike components to me. I'd be just as happy with Shimano parts. Then again, I'm wearing a Casio watch right now. :)

[nahtnoj]

When people who have access to anything prefer Campy, that says something.

What about people who have access to everything and prefer Shimano or SRAM? Cause there are plenty.

You can buy a perfectly functional Campagnolo group for about the same money as 105, more or less, so lets not pretend that everyone doesn't have access to everything.

[dsb]

Really
Just checking ... ;)

That article made me think of this:

Moen's Law of Bicycles

"Good customers make for good products". This is my explanation for why an ignorant customer base causes merchandise quality to decline, on account of unhealthy market dynamics, e.g., in retail computer hardware and software. In the mid-1970s, bicycles suddenly became very popular in the USA. The masses suddenly entered the market, few knowing anything about bicycles. Many could distinguish poorly if at all between good equipment and bad; good customer service and bad. Consequently, poorly made bicycles (which cost less to make) undercut well made ones (and poor customer service out-earned the good variety), because superior value ceased to be perceived. Over time, overall quality of available bicycles declined considerably, almost entirely because of this dynamic with customers, recovering only after the fad ended, years later.

Quality thrives only when people can tell the difference. When they haven't a clue about products and how they work, schlock merchandise prevails. One can see this process at work in retail computing gear and software: People who know least about computing always insist most on achieving bottom dollar. In a way, this is understandable: You want to exercise control over the process, and, if you're dirt-ignorant about computing, the only place to exercise control is over price. Gradually, this effect tends to drive good merchandise out of the market entirely, leaving a generous selection of cheap crud.

This "law" originated in a November 1995 editorial I wrote for the San Francisco PC User Group, where I attempted to explain why, by becoming wilfully ignorant computerphobes and thereby ignoring the birthright of all computer user groups, they were particularly responsible for the decline of quality in available hardware and software.

Objections to Moen's Law of Bicycles:

"You've merely restated Gresham's Law." No. In its literal sense, Gresham's Law says that less-base (higher intrinsic value) metal coins tend to disappear from the market, because people preferentially retain them, and instead use in commerce baser-metal ones bearing the same face value. It is also sometimes cited metaphorically to claim that "Bad X inevitably drives out good X" — but this is mere empty-headed nihilism, absent some explanation of by what mechanism inferior examples of X will allegedly predominate. Moen's Law of Bicycles differs by detailing one such mechanism, under what conditions it arises, and, equally important, how to prevent it. E.g., bad 35mm cameras have never driven good ones off the market (or rendered them artificially expensive specialty gear), because a large fraction of wise purchasers continue to make a point of understanding what they're buying.

(George Akerlof ably described the psychology and economics entailed with the end-result of such market changes, in his 1970 paper "The Market for Lemons: Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism", as an example of asymmetrical information theory, but didn't give the syndrome a specific name.)

"But if I just want a bike for the grandkids, why should I have to buy a 2lb. $3,000 aluminum racer?" This misses the point in two ways: 1. I never recommended the high end. 2. The 1970s' influx of ignorant customers made good cheap bicycles rare, every bit as much as the more-expensive ones: An unhealthy market dynamic has corrosive effects at all price levels.

-which I copied and pasted from:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html

[BillG]

I have Campagnolo gruppos on a few of my bikes (C-Record, Chorus 10-speed), but they're just bike components to me. I'd be just as happy with Shimano parts. Then again, I'm wearing a Casio watch right now. :)

Agreed. I love riding my bikes. If they weren't these bikes with what they have on them, they'd be other bikes. But I would love to ride them.

For the life of my I can't understand why one would rather not ride then ride Campy. If I had a BMX bike and the chance to ride in Vermont -- I'd ride the BMX bike.

[jr59]

I have Campagnolo gruppos on a few of my bikes (C-Record, Chorus 10-speed), but they're just bike components to me. I'd be just as happy with Shimano parts. Then again, I'm wearing a Casio watch right now. :)

I feel bad for you! :p

If it makes you happy, then it's fine by me. :beer:

Me, I like things that IMO, have value and will hold their value.
Again IMO, neither Shimano, nor Casio will do that!

But it's your wrist, and your bike!

I would rather walk, and use a Seiko!

[William]

Cool article. :cool:

If you like Campy, that's cool. I still say their hoods are for people with girlie hands though. :p






William :D

[Birddog]

Campagnolo = Sophia Loren

Shimano = Kim Kardashian

SRAM = ................

[jr59]

Campagnolo = Sophia Loren

Shimano = Kim Kardashian

SRAM = ................

SRAM =................ A rash you can't get rid of! :p

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

I was referring to folks like oldpotato, myself and many here. Not everyone has access, or to clarify, can afford/own SRAM, Shimano or Campy . When someone isn't influenced by slick marketing, "market saturation" or the need to be like the pros, what they choose says something.What about people who have access to everything and prefer Shimano or SRAM? Cause there are plenty.

You can buy a perfectly functional Campagnolo group for about the same money as 105, more or less, so lets not pretend that everyone doesn't have access to everything.

[William]

Campagnolo = Sophia Loren

Shimano = Kim Kardashian

SRAM = ................


Campy
http://www.mysanantonio.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=972513&width=628&height=471

Shimano
http://beautyeditor.ca/wp-content/uploads/Kim-Kardashian-blunt-bangs.jpg

SRAM
http://content8.flixster.com/photo/12/82/20/12822018_ori.jpg


;) :D


.

[fiamme red]

I feel bad for you! :p

If it makes you happy, then it's fine by me. :beer:

Me, I like things that IMO, have value and will hold their value.
Again IMO, neither Shimano, nor Casio will do that!

But it's your wrist, and your bike!

I would rather walk, and use a Seiko!My Casio watch cost $15, and still works as well as when it was new. So to me, it has held its value. :)

[Dave B]

Campy
http://www.mysanantonio.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=972513&width=628&height=471

Shimano
http://beautyeditor.ca/wp-content/uploads/Kim-Kardashian-blunt-bangs.jpg

SRAM
http://content8.flixster.com/photo/12/82/20/12822018_ori.jpg


;) :D


.


Ok, one made classic films, one made an adult film leaked just like her friend Paris told her to do.

[DHallerman]

I go for the sexy Italian.

And I go for a mix of:
the sexy Italian (Ergo shifters are best for many reasons)
the practical Japanese (large Shimano mountain cogs in the back work well for me)
the elegant French (love my TA 48/34 chainrings for looks, function and durability)
the upcoming Taiwanese/American combo (since SRAM Red brakes offer the best balance of price and weight and function)


I s'pose the point is: Why stick with a single company's products when you can have the best of many worlds.

Dave, who when he finishes building up a bike plays a game where he figures out how many different nations made the various parts on that particular bike and the highest number he's come up with is 8 or 9

[William]

Ok, one made classic films, one made an adult film leaked just like her friend Paris told her to do.

I'm just messin wit ya Mr. Prez! :D

Sophia in her prime...Ooo Lala!!





William

[fiamme red]

Campagnolo = Sophia Loren

Shimano = Kim Kardashian

SRAM = ................http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=291548&postcount=58

[jr59]

My Casio watch cost $15, and still works as well as when it was new. So to me, it has held its value. :)


But will it be of any dollar value to your grandchildren?

A 50 year old Rolex is still a fine timepiece.

As I said, everyone decides what they think is value,
it's as different as saddles!

[Aaron O]

I've been approached with this article by 4 different people already - it's striking a nerve in folks.

My thoughts:

The most interesting thing to me about the article was the pricing…the whole rhetoric that Campagnolo is overpriced has always confused me, as it’s pretty similar to Red and Dura Ace apples to apples, and the cheaper Campy stuff is on point with cheaper SRAM/Shimano – and it often comes with hardware that SRAM and Dura Ace only have as upgrades, like ti bolts. The cheaper Campy groups also work great – Athena is quite reasonable and Centaur is a bargain. It’s amazing to me that Campagnolo is able to compete on price as well as they do given the labor differences.

Another funny thing about price is how Campagnolo supports its older equipment far better than SRAM and Shimano. If an STI lever breaks, that’s it…you have to buy a new one. Same with SRAM. Campagnolo sells small parts going back around 15-20 years – so you get cheaper over all prices when it needs to be fixed or replaced. My 9sp Ergos just froze and I’m having them rebuilt with new springs/hardware for about $125. The result is an Ergo lever that is, for all realistic purposes, new. When my 9sp STI DA lever broke I spent $200 to replace it with another used lever with used springs. I have no idea how much life it has left.

I can see buying SRAm or Shimano in smaller areas where it’s hard to find folks who will touch Campy, but in a city like Philly, with plenty of great shops, I am amazed more people don’t go Campy.

[oldpotatoe]

But will it be of any dollar value to your grandchildren?

A 50 year old Rolex is still a fine timepiece.

As I said, everyone decides what they think is value,
it's as different as saddles!

For reference, my Rolex GMT Master when I bought it in 1978 was $645.

Used-

http://www.tic-tock.com/wingates/watch-detail/40288

New-

http://www.demesy.com/p/53343.html

The inflation calculator for $645 is $2131...inflation proof!!

[beeatnik]

Cadel Evans is on the cover of the Campy 2011 catalog. What's the story with him switching to Shimano? di2 to win Le Tour or cold hard cash to BMC?

[Aaron O]

I do think that Dura Ace STI and SRAM might have more long term value - since once it breaks, it's done. That means there will be less of it down the road for collectors. Campagnolo's repairability will keep more of it around, meaning lower price with higher supply.

[oldpotatoe]

Cadel Evans is on the cover of the Campy 2011 catalog. What's the story with him switching to Shimano? di2 to win Le Tour or cold hard cash to BMC?

'Rumor' is that BMC was to go to sram(this is a TRUE rumor) and Cadel and others refused. They approached Campagnolo, they said no, so they bought shimano.

[dancinkozmo]

But will it be of any dollar value to your grandchildren?

A 50 year old Rolex is still a fine timepiece.

As I said, everyone decides what they think is value,
it's as different as saddles!

I am saving my campagnolo 980 derailers for my grand kids...should easily pay for their college .

[AngryScientist]

The most interesting thing to me about the article was the pricing…the whole rhetoric that Campagnolo is overpriced has always confused me

confuses me too.

you cant get RED or DA any cheaper than Record, if you know how to shop.

Also, Veloce levers have proven to be super-awesome on my Serotta, and you can get a set of them for a tick over a hondo, show me what shimano or sram levers you get for that kind of coin??

[Louis]

All must be well on the Forum if we've dropped the "Ben should do this..." threads and moved back to the Campy vs Shimano threads.

[Lionel]

For reference, my Rolex GMT Master when I bought it in 1978 was $645.

Used-

http://www.tic-tock.com/wingates/watch-detail/40288

New-

http://www.demesy.com/p/53343.html

The inflation calculator for $645 is $2131...inflation proof!!

GMT master and campy for me too :banana: :banana:

[thwart]

Late to the party here, but great article.

Have to appreciate the 'old style' approach to business that Campy has...

Maintain high quality and performance above all. Don't rush to outsource because you may very well lose your technical edge, and perhaps your reputation for quality as well.

Stay private so shareholders can't dictate the direction of the company (as in make more $$$ for us, whatever it takes, and do it now!).

Value your labor force and treat them well.

And perhaps the most important... there's actually more to success than just making the most money.

[beeatnik]

All must be well on the Forum if we've dropped the "Ben should do this..." threads and moved back to the Campy vs Shimano threads.

I was just thinking the same thing. Now I have to go look for my Rapha touring shorts with the "campy or shimano" patch.

So the author of the article (great piece, imo), alludes to the sensuality of Campagnolo. The curves, the beautiful lines. Well, last night I had dinner at my girlfriend's place and throughout our meal I was distracted by the Centaur shifters on her bike. I mentioned that they mirrored the curves of a beautiful woman. She looked at me as if I were crazy. And, yet, this girl had me searching for NOS Campy parts for her pink Italian steed for 6 months. She even refused to use non-Campy skewers. Women know. Maybe, Campagnolo should target that untapped market.

[Aaron O]

I was just thinking the same thing. Now I have to go look for my Rapha touring shorts with the "campy or shimano" patch.

So the author of the article (great piece, imo), alludes to the sensuality of Campagnolo. The curves, the beautiful lines. Well, last night I had dinner at my girlfriend's place and throughout our meal I was distracted by the Centaur shifters on her bike. I mentioned that they mirrored the curves of a beautiful woman. She looked at me as if I were crazy. And, yet, this girl had me searching for NOS Campy parts for her pink Italian steed for 6 months. She even refused to use non-Campy skewers. Women know. Maybe, Campagnolo should target that untapped market.

<Insert horrible, crass, misogynist joke here>.

[dana_e]

had to comment

what made campy for me was the ergo shifter, tape under the bar, nice click action, and veloce and centaur have always been inexpensive and light as well (whencompared to shimano)

campy is especially cheap on blow out, needless to say I have a decent stock pile of campy 10

I get tempted from time to time to sell off the 10 and go 11, but have not gone for that yet.

SRAM is light, that is about it's only quality, and double tap is ridiculous, it adds travel and complexity in my book

the new shape ergo is spot on, and also cheaper than shimano

I burned throught so many shimano shifters and that was that

campy is in

they also make excellent wheels, a fact often looked over, you can get zondas for a song, and they are a way nice wheel

the inexpensive groups are less than shimano and better quality

Plus the campy boxes are works of art.

[dana_e]

Campy has done some value-engenieering from time to time

one year campy centaur had alu carriers for the rear cogs

next year no carriers

then next year "new" lighter cogs with carriers

making the 10 speed stuff powershift was a bit of a value move as well

some of the new wheels use a cheaper hub with steel axle

but at the same time the chorus and above have had improvements each year (except for now htebrakes have bushings, no bearings: value move)


chorus is a very nice group and a top pick in my book
go 11 with campy, hey shimano is going 11

campy made 11 the new standard

[ergott]

Campagnolo = Sophia Loren

Shimano = Kim Kardashian

SRAM = ................

Brittany Spears.

[veloduffer]

A good article and from a surprising source - Bicycling mag. I like the direction the magazine is going - more in-depth articles and away from just 24/7 type sound bites. They also did an interview with Eddy last month. I also liked the Ted King ride report on the Two Hundred on One Hundred with Tim Johnson and other racers.

And as for Campy, I'm a Campy man. I lusted after Campy when I got my first derailleur-ed bike, Bridgestone Kabuki Submariner (stainless steel) with Suntour components. The shop had Campy components that looked "mahvelous" in the display case. Now that I can afford whatever, I use Campy - it works well and great ergonomics. I also use Shimano, but on my cross bike since I prefer bar-end shifters. It's good too and Shimano's innovations have helped push Campy, which didn't copy cat but tried to create their own design.

I think Campy is smart not to try to be-all in the marketplace. It doesn't have the capital or mfg resources like Shimano, which got its money from the fishing gear business. Ironically, Campy's philosophy is like the pre-modern Japanese way of life - focusing & striving for perfection on a small set of tasks.

[Plum Hill]

Campagnolo made wheels for Ferrari.
Shimano makes fishing gear.

[nahtnoj]

I was referring to folks like oldpotato, myself and many here. Not everyone has access, or to clarify, can afford/own SRAM, Shimano or Campy . When someone isn't influenced by slick marketing, "market saturation" or the need to be like the pros, what they choose says something.

Perspective of a younger guy here obviously...

You are influenced by slick marketing. You like feeling like you are part of an elite club.

Campy needs to create this feeling to survive. It is their entire strategy. Elitism and capitalizing on their heritage. It seems like a course they have deliberately chosen, and there is nothing wrong with that, nor is it to say that there stuff doesn't work.

The fact that people here are comparing Campy to Rolex and Shimano to Casio speaks volumes about their success in creating perception.

Need to be like the pros? Absolutely you want to be like the pros, just the pros of a bygone era.

[rain dogs]

What interests me the most about these articles are the business development model. Many think that Campagnolo sticking to it's "roots" threatens business, but those people, in my mind, are better with calculators and horrible with context and reality.

My question is, how long will SRAM survive.... or FSA (the Brand X of cycling)

When the main objective for a company is to do things cheap... that's all you've got. You main opportunities for innovation are inherently tied to your "cheapness"/affordability, but are dangerous with the relationship to actual value.

Would someone accept a 20% increase in price to get a slightly better FSA?

Not in your life. They buy as long as it's cheap.

As "cheap" oil/transport/procurement becomes less cheap, as outsourcing becomes less viable, the product has backed itself into a corner. There becomes no way out except lose innovation/quality or.... bankruptcy.

Campagnolo can always adjust to fit scale. Always strive for the best components at a fair price for the innovation and processes and their clients will oblige.

People who categorically pay for the best, don't one day just decide to start paying less and desiring for worse. If brand X is competitive and the value is there, then maybe, but if you desire quality, you know that comes with cost.

Companies like Campagnolo will always survive, because they can adapt in a heartbeat. Brand X is here today and ???? for tomorrow. They operate on the idea of "play the system" or death. And sometimes the system plays you.

I'd rather a brand focuses on quality and innovation than pocket change.

Look at Pinarello, what they had and what they lost. Once they're in China... they gained slight in profit, but lost 10x more in brand.

Chinarello.... ouch. Even a "real" Pinarello somehow seems a little less sharp.

[oldpotatoe]

Perspective of a younger guy here obviously...

You are influenced by slick marketing. You like feeling like you are part of an elite club.

Campy needs to create this feeling to survive. It is their entire strategy. Elitism and capitalizing on their heritage. It seems like a course they have deliberately chosen, and there is nothing wrong with that, nor is it to say that there stuff doesn't work.

The fact that people here are comparing Campy to Rolex and Shimano to Casio speaks volumes about their success in creating perception.

Need to be like the pros? Absolutely you want to be like the pros, just the pros of a bygone era.


Check the 2011 palmares, who won the big races, classics, tours, etc...and what they were riding component wise. Campag seems to sponsor teams that actually have a chance to win some of these..not everybody.

Mercedes, Porsche, Audi...small companies, small racing programs. Not like NASCAR.

[dana_e]

I get more miles on my campy than I did on shimano

I can pick up cheap ergos and lots of "last years" campy for dirt cheap

it is matter of economics for me

I can run longer for cheaper with campy

I can outfit more bikes with campy since it costs less

plus the brake/shifters are the main interface with the bike:
controls braking and shifting

the under the bar cables and the shape are also reasons I choose campy
(yea they are all under the bar now)

I don't go for the high end stuff, veloce and centaur work fine

[rain dogs]

You are influenced by slick marketing. You like feeling like you are part of an elite club.


the influence of marketing is moot, because everyone markets their products. If anything, Campagnolo advertises less.

In terms of elitism, I think that's a strawman. I don't think there is much "elite" about Campagnolo other than quality/innovation. If I wanted Elitism I wouldn't sweating on a saddle...I'd own a car.

Some see it Campagnolo = Rolex.

Some see Shimano = Disneyland.

Some see SRAM = McDonalds.

What I know is the best quality items most often cost more money. McDonalds might work and be cheap, but I ain't eating that sh^t. You want a good meal, you pay, a good drink, you pay, a good trip, you pay, a good watch, you pay. (and by the way.... I don't fit in the 35-65 demographic either)

Campagnolo to me is like wine. It's up to the individual if it's hi-end or lower-end, cheap or costly, but it's wine.... it has intention. It isn't a cola.

You don't drink wine with a bag of Doritos. You have it with a good meal.

It reflects a quality lifestyle, not marketing. I don't need marketing to tell me I don't drink wine with a Happy meal.

Wine costs money, and it isn't an 18 can flat of cola... nobody asks "How long will vineyards survive if they don't outsource to China?"

[dana_e]

is kind of a running joke

ultrashift
powershift
ultra torque
power torue
ultradrive

blah, blah, blah it goes on and on

plus there usually is a sentence or two that does not translate well

folks who know campy dismiss the marketing as being, who knows, maybe too much passion and emotion

certainly does not move me, nor is it really slick

I review all the groups each year and the changes
and things like powershift and no bearings inthe chorus brakes are the things that stand out each year when the latest and greatest campy marketing comes out

I dismiss the words and dig into the details

[DHallerman]

folks who know campy dismiss the marketing as being, who knows, maybe too much passion and emotion

However, the best bicycle marketing I've ever seen is my Campy coffee cup, with the company script name, the logo, and the tag line: "When technology becomes emotion."

Isn't that what most bike rides are about?

We use the bicycle technology -- mainly 19th century technology with chains and gears and pneumatic tires -- to produce the emotion of a bike ride.

Dave, who realizes that everything a company does in the world including coffee cups or the willingness to be interviewed by a Bicycling magazine writer are all forms of marketing

[dana_e]

technology became emotion when my shimano shifter(s) crapped out


technology became emotion when my campy shifter lasted a long, long time

[charliedid]

But then again, they did make a Campy nut cracker....so they had that going for them.

:)

[echappist]

What I know is the best quality items most often cost more money. McDonalds might work and be cheap, but I ain't eating that sh^t. You want a good meal, you pay, a good drink, you pay, a good trip, you pay, a good watch, you pay. (and by the way.... I don't fit in the 35-65 demographic either)

Campagnolo to me is like wine. It's up to the individual if it's hi-end or lower-end, cheap or costly, but it's wine.... it has intention. It isn't a cola.

You don't drink wine with a bag of Doritos. You have it with a good meal.

It reflects a quality lifestyle, not marketing. I don't need marketing to tell me I don't drink wine with a Happy meal.

Wine costs money, and it isn't an 18 can flat of cola... nobody asks "How long will vineyards survive if they don't outsource to China?"
that's called lifestyle brands.

Campy is wine from Bordeuax, Shimano is like wine from Spain/Germany, and SRAM is like vine from Sonoma. All can make quality stuff, but differ in "perceived" prestige and heritage
But will it be of any dollar value to your grandchildren?

A 50 year old Rolex is still a fine timepiece.

As I said, everyone decides what they think is value,
it's as different as saddles!

that's just the same spiel spewed by Patek Philippe: oh look, you don't ever own it, you are just looking after it for posterity
Check the 2011 palmares, who won the big races, classics, tours, etc...and what they were riding component wise. Campag seems to sponsor teams that actually have a chance to win some of these..not everybody.
that's just a red herring one way or another.

i'd be personally fine with buying Campy if it were not for the ridiculous $150 11-speed chain tools and such, or the fact that there are few options for crank-based Campy powermeters

[Elefantino]

I was just thinking the same thing. Now I have to go look for my Rapha touring shorts with the "campy or shimano" patch.

So the author of the article (great piece, imo), alludes to the sensuality of Campagnolo. The curves, the beautiful lines. Well, last night I had dinner at my girlfriend's place and throughout our meal I was distracted by the Centaur shifters on her bike. I mentioned that they mirrored the curves of a beautiful woman. She looked at me as if I were crazy. And, yet, this girl had me searching for NOS Campy parts for her pink Italian steed for 6 months. She even refused to use non-Campy skewers. Women know. Maybe, Campagnolo should target that untapped market.
I have been saying the same thing, more or less, for years.

Chicks dig Campy.

[dana_e]

and it is reasonable

google it: 30 bucks or so

what will the shimano 11 speed chain tool cost?

[1centaur]

I only wish that Campy was as good as this thread makes it out to be. I would be fine paying up for fantastic quality.

I own a bike with Centaur and test rode two other bikes, one with Record and one with Centaur. Both bike shops have good high end reputations, so I presume the parts were correctly installed. All three bikes shifted fine, but not insanely smoothly, quickly, or accurately compared to DA 7800, which has consistently been perfect for years and years on bike after bike after bike after bike. Those Campy groups needed their extra trimability too often, which back then (6 years ago) was viewed as an advantage.

Here's heresy: I'm somewhat indifferent between SRAM Red and Campy functionality - neither gives me shifting pleasure and both do the job just fine. I've had perfect, smooth and quiet shifts from each, but I don't love the plastic feel of Red or the heaviness of Campy's shift. I do love the quick and smooth DA7800 shifting, so put me down as passionate about Shimano.

and BTW, for watch snobs, Rolex is the Casio of the high end.

[Kirk Pacenti]

refreshing :beer:

[beeatnik]

I have been saying the same thing, more or less, for years.

Chicks dig Campy.



Chicks dig Campy! That should be on the back of the next Serotta Forum bibs a la Ritte's "Where's the pub at?" or Team Bear Claw's "Cocaine is a hell of a drug." Well, chicks dig campy is actually clever.

[velotel]

My daughter-in-law came up with an interesting perspective on Campy when she came over with my son. I borrowed a bike for her from a friend and by chance the bike was full record compact 10-speed. Her bike back in Colorado is Sram-equipped. She is not an ardent biker and knows nothing about equipment and probably thinks my son, who is Campy to the max, is a little nuts with his passion for Campy. So she rides this bike and after awhile keeps making comments about how easy the shifting works and how smooth the brakes are and how comfortable it all is, etc., etc. My son and I would just look at each other and laugh. There are solid reasons for preferring Campy in my opinion.

Thoroughly enjoyed the article too. Amazing that was in Bicycling.

[echappist]

and it is reasonable

google it: 30 bucks or so

what will the shimano 11 speed chain tool cost?

good to know, but here's my litany of why i can't switch:

chains are at least $15 more than what i pay for a sram chain

cassettes are at least $60 more than a sram cassette, and it doesn't have the ratio i want (11-26t)

very limited options when pairing with quarq, and SRM is out of my price range. I'll most likely need to use a sram or rotor crank, and i have no idea how well campy chainrings will calibrate on a quarq.

frankly, i think the lines and curves on them are quite aesthetically pleasing, and nothing looks quite good on a classic round bar as campy shifters. i'll even eat the price difference between the chains, but Campy seems way too stubborn to consider that bike racing has evolved and people want to have powermeters as well as a do-it-all cassette (11-26 or 11-28t).

for the weekend warriors with cash, yes, by all means, but it doesn't seem to be even trying to market to the amateur racers.

[velotel]

It should be noted, however, that Campagnolo has a rather narrow view of cycling. It never was anything in mountain biking, and it never made any decent touring gear. Cycling is a lot bigger tent than professional racing. For that matter, these days Campagnolo doesn't have much of a presence in professional racing, either. So, while I wish them well, I think the notion that they're preserving the soul of cycling is laughable.
Actually they had a terrific mountain bike group back in the 80's. I still have two bikes equipped with the OR group. Sadly it wasn't well accepted at the time plus the brakes left much to be desired (my bikes had and still have WTB roller cams) and that didn't help at all. Nevertheless it was very good stuff.

[dancinkozmo]

Campagnolo made wheels for Ferrari.
Shimano makes fishing gear.

Fishing gear is a lot more complex in design than a wheel...wasn't that perfected like 10000 yrs ago ?

[DHallerman]

...so put me down as passionate about Shimano.

Screen names can be deceiving.

I always thought your name Mr. One Centaur, meant you liked that Campy group.

[prometheus20]

Thanks for linking this article. I recently started a thread asking: Can Campy survive? The article illuminates a lot of issues that ran through that thread. It gives good insight into the Campy manufacturing and business strategies. Its a wonder they can offer such quality products produced in house by union workers at the price point they do. Sounds like they keep the Romania factory at high standards too.

The N.A. marketing guy has some good ideas such as trying to win over mechanics. My suggestion would be to give bike manufacturers more incentive to build their bikes with Veloce as OEM. As has been pointed out on this forum before, the few bikes that do come equipped with Veloce or Centaur are priced proportionately higher than they should be compared to the the gruppos' price when sold separately. Without compromising quality, Campy could price OEM equipment aggressively for bike companies and win new converts through riding experience- not those poorly translated marketing blurbs. That's how I became a big Campy fan. My 1995 Bianchi came with Mirage/Veloce and even this low end stuff is still holding up on that bike.

:help:
Furthermore, the Italian economy needs our support! To help the cause, everyone on this forum should commit to buying at least one Campagnolo product this month! You will be doing the patriotic thing by helping to prevent the European contagion from spreading to our shores any more than it already has.

[dancinkozmo]

[QUOTE

:help:
Furthermore, the Italian economy needs our support! To help the cause, everyone on this forum should commit to buying at least one Campagnolo product this month! You will be doing the patriotic thing by helping to prevent the European contagion from spreading to our shores any more than it already has.[/QUOTE]


This is a joke right ??

[Joachim]

good to know, but here's my litany of why i can't switch:

chains are at least $15 more than what i pay for a sram chain
very limited options when pairing with quarq, and SRM is out of my price range. I'll most likely need to use a sram or rotor crank, and i have no idea how well campy chainrings will calibrate on a quarq.
.

I race as an amateur and I've found to the best way to enjoy Campy is to buy KMC X11L chains (around $33) and no chain tool needed. They last long and are really quiet. I use a Rotor crank/Quarq with either FSA Super (S-10, yes Shimano) chainrings or Stronglight CT-2 (130bcd) chainrings. Works great with Campy. I'll be the first to admit that the new Campy SRM looks great, but racing costs a lot. So I mix and match a little bit so I can use both 11 speed shifting, power meter, no expensive chain tool or chain that requires pins and cheaper chainrings that still allow great shifting.

[dana_e]

make lots of sense

and free you from the 135 chainring stuff and cost

[biker72]

Cool article. :cool:

If you like Campy, that's cool. I still say their hoods are for people with girlie hands though. :p
William :D
+1
I much prefer Shimano hoods...just the hoods.. :)
Never had any SRAM equipment.

[prometheus20]

This is a joke right ??



Right. Still, it couldn't hurt... :cool:

[rain dogs]

that's called lifestyle brands.
Campy is wine from Bordeuax, Shimano is like wine from Spain/Germany, and SRAM is like vine from Sonoma. All can make quality stuff, but differ in "perceived" prestige and heritage

Either my analogy is a bad one, or yours is a bad one.... but this doesn't work. I'm not saying wine=quality. I'm saying wine=intended use/market. There are plenty of other quality drinks, and there are plenty of bad wines.

Campagnolo makes high end parts for road racing. They don't do commuting, they don't do mountain, they don't do OEM, they don't do internal hubs....etc. etc. They're like wine. Very specific audience and use.

Shimano is like the coca-cola corporation (Pop, tea, water etc). Hell, some people love Coke... I enjoy Coke sometimes.... but it isn't wine. Coke may never die, but the vast % of their stuff is mid-range, disposable, "plastic" product. It's fine that Shimano does everything and they do their range well. Shimano is a fine product, but it'll always be the Coca-Cola of bike components.

Some people prefer Coke to Wine, but like those drinks, whether you like one or the other more, whether you drink one or the other more, Campagnolo is in it's own class and category.

Some people think drinking wine is elitism, it's just a different category, from Sonoma to Bordeaux, from Xenon to Super Record. They choose not to make sugar products, that doesn't mean everyone likes the taste.

EDIT: Heck.... they even make a bottle opener, which like their chain tool, costs a lot of money.

[mcteague]

I started with Simplex, then very early Shimano Crane before getting a Campy N. Record rear derailleur. Got full Super Record on a Merckx bike and it shifted poorly. It kept jumping gears on it's own. Finally swapped for, then new, Dura-Ace STI. Stayed Shimano for a long time.

Today I only ride Campy. They got past all their index shifting woes and now work as well as anything, and always look better IMO. However, I keep moving down the line. I currently have older Record brakes, Chorus cranks and Centaur shifters\derailleurs\cassette\chain.

Only problem is, even in Baltimore, few seem to know or stock Campagnolo. A while back my UT bearings went up and no one had them and even the Campy Pro shop near DC seemed a bit clueless about replacing them.

Just last month I got a set of Wheels ceramic bearings from Vecchio's, Peter's place. Got them in about a week and installed them myself. Don't know what I would do without mail order.

Campy has that certain something special. Sort of like my new Triumph Street Triple. The "little guys" often just make a better product.

Tim

[Lionel]

and BTW, for watch snobs, Rolex is the Casio of the high end.

Patek Philippe and Super Record ?

[cfox]

Either my analogy is a bad one, or yours is a bad one.... but this doesn't work. I'm not saying wine=quality. I'm saying wine=intended use/market. There are plenty of other quality drinks, and there are plenty of bad wines.

Campagnolo makes high end parts for road racing. They don't do commuting, they don't do mountain, they don't do OEM, they don't do internal hubs....etc. etc. They're like wine. Very specific audience and use.

Shimano is like the coca-cola corporation (Pop, tea, water etc). Hell, some people love Coke... I enjoy Coke sometimes.... but it isn't wine. Coke may never die, but the vast % of their stuff is mid-range, disposable, "plastic" product. It's fine that Shimano does everything and they do their range well. Shimano is a fine product, but it'll always be the Coca-Cola of bike components.

Some people prefer Coke to Wine, but like those drinks, whether you like one or the other more, whether you drink one or the other more, Campagnolo is in it's own class and category.

Some people think drinking wine is elitism, it's just a different category, from Sonoma to Bordeaux, from Xenon to Super Record. They choose not to make sugar products, that doesn't mean everyone likes the taste.

EDIT: Heck.... they even make a bottle opener, which like their chain tool, costs a lot of money.
Your analogy implies that Shimano doesn't make a high-end road group on the level of Campagnolo, which is a load of crap. Everyone has a subjective preference, but objectively, Dura Ace (esp. Di2) is every bit as 'nice' and functional as Super Record. Just because Shimano is a much bigger company, and makes more lower end stuff, doesn't mean their higher end stuff suffers one bit. The only way your analogy would make any sense is if Coca-Cola owned a high end winery in addition to their soft drinks.Oh, and I'm a Campy guy.

[christian]

Your analogy implies that Shimano doesn't make a high-end road group on the level of Campagnolo, which is a load of crap. Everyone has a subjective preference, but objectively, Dura Ace (esp. Di2) is every bit as 'nice' and functional as Super Record. I prefer Coke to wine.

[echappist]

I race as an amateur and I've found to the best way to enjoy Campy is to buy KMC X11L chains (around $33) and no chain tool needed. They last long and are really quiet. I use a Rotor crank/Quarq with either FSA Super (S-10, yes Shimano) chainrings or Stronglight CT-2 (130bcd) chainrings. Works great with Campy. I'll be the first to admit that the new Campy SRM looks great, but racing costs a lot. So I mix and match a little bit so I can use both 11 speed shifting, power meter, no expensive chain tool or chain that requires pins and cheaper chainrings that still allow great shifting.
that's good to know, thanks for the info. maybe sram 10 speed powerglide rings could work as well...

kmc must have raised their prices, but the cheapest i can find is $55. I think i might just hop on the bandwagon when i get out of grad school. after all, this is what my (very opinionated) idea of what a race bike should look like with a -17 stem, classic bend bars, and campy shifters pointed upwards

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/imageBank/cache/c/CE-side.jpg_e_bfb2ebeeac6d97bce3314083bb040883.jpg

[dana_e]

is the only real metric you have in a shop situation

long term wear and reliability are not measured at that point

SRAM is light weight

[edward12]

Simply put, Campagnolo is what it is. Expensive, well made, and damn pretty to look at.

I ride Campy on three of my road bikes primarily because I enjoy the company's history and aesthetic (I particularly enjoy the near-fanatical precision of the shfiting on my Record 11 gruppo).

I also have Dura Ace 7800 (with DT shifters) on my commuter/city bike. Love that gruppo as well. And the component design is very pleasing to the eye.

Both manufacture phenomenal wheel hubs. But the Dura Ace hubs are simply beautiful. And those skewers!

My point is that a big part of cycling is aesthetics and I would venture to say that most of us enjoy the elegance of a bygone era. I think Campagnolo tries to adhere to that elegance- but at a price.

For those who don't want to pay for Campagnolo's aesthetic, they are blessed with Shimano's superb products which can also display an aesthetic quality all of their own.

But in the end, I must assert that SRAM is an ugly stepchild.

[jpw]

I enjoyed reading the article and the craft of the journalist.

Dura Ace is made in Japan. It is not outsourced to China or Taiwan.

Campagnolo makes carbon cranks because it doesn't know how to do hollow forging. The inference that Campagnolo has 'the knowledge' and Shimano doesn't is just wrong. Japan is home to the Samurai sword, a weapon fashioned by metal working that was the state of the art at a time when Europeans were hacking each other to death with straight bladed lumps of base metal.

I've ridden Campagnolo and Shimano. Both make very good top end stuff. Shimano makes middle and lower end stuff too.

[dancinkozmo]

....some of you campy fanboys should read "the dancing chain " by frank berto ....it will set you straight.

[Pete Serotta]

I prefer Coke to wine.


I have plenty of Coke...bring the "red" wine. PETE

[biker72]

How did we transition from Vecchicos being mentioned in Bicycling Magazine to a who is better Campy or Shimano thread???.. :)

[Bob Loblaw]

Cycling has been a sport of romance, of heroes and villains, of tradition. Lately it's become more about numbers, training innovation, materials science, money and (surely as day follows night), cheating. Change happens...time marches on and all that.

Campagnolo grew up with the sport, and the way the company conducts itself says something about remembering the traditions of cycling, the great rivalries and the great heroes, while also showing they can do current technology as well as anyone.

I don't love Campy to the exclusion of all others, but anyone who's passionate about the sport has to appreciate Campy on some level.

BL

[benb]

You love your brand because you are swayed by what the pros ride and by expensive marketing!

I love my brand because it is a fine heirloom product that reflects my good taste and I will hand it down to my children who will appreciate it just as much as I do!

It gets thick in here sometimes!

edit: More seriously the article does make me want to support Campy for how they run their business. In the end SRAM probably will be a flash in the pan, they're transferring all their IP to China and someone in China will eventually get the idea to undercut them with what they were taught. I am very receptive to the authors calling out "knowledge transfer" as essentially being "IP leak". Given a generation the outsourcing companies won't even know how to make their own products themselves anymore.

[Louis]

I'm more interested in whether or not the components do what I want them to do. "Feel good" attributes like history and cool Italian heritage are somewhere farther down the priority list.

[soulspinner]

Late to the party here, but great article.

Have to appreciate the 'old style' approach to business that Campy has...

Maintain high quality and performance above all. Don't rush to outsource because you may very well lose your technical edge, and perhaps your reputation for quality as well.

Stay private so shareholders can't dictate the direction of the company (as in make more $$$ for us, whatever it takes, and do it now!).

Value your labor force and treat them well.

And perhaps the most important... there's actually more to success than just making the most money.

Well said :beer:

[oldpotatoe]

But then again, they did make a Campy nut cracker....so they had that going for them.

:)


Have a gold one...and don't forget the cork screw.

[rain dogs]

Your analogy implies that Shimano doesn't make a high-end road group on the level of Campagnolo, which is a load of crap. ....

The point of an analogy is not to restate the exact same situation. It's looking at other situations and finding common ground to use as an illustration.

I prefaced with the clarification that the "wine" is analogous to the smaller scale, the specific product and the "family" appeal (process) and not to a distinction in quality.

vs

Shimano's massive scale, global dominance and varied product base, more like Coca Cola, who own hundreds of companies including high end water and tea brands. Perhaps another company, like InBev is a better analogy?

No analogy is perfect, but I think it's far from a "load of crap", perhaps think and suggest to build a better one vs just criticising?

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Everyone extolling Campagnolo's virtues as a company above all others should read the fairly recent article in Rouleur regarding Shimano. It covers Shimano's history, manufacturing philosophy, product development, and employee development.

[sharkboyrob]

....some of you campy fanboys should read "the dancing chain " by frank berto ....it will set you straight.

Missing the point. Can you clarify?

[oldpotatoe]

good to know, but here's my litany of why i can't switch:

chains are at least $15 more than what i pay for a sram chain

cassettes are at least $60 more than a sram cassette, and it doesn't have the ratio i want (11-26t)

very limited options when pairing with quarq, and SRM is out of my price range. I'll most likely need to use a sram or rotor crank, and i have no idea how well campy chainrings will calibrate on a quarq.

frankly, i think the lines and curves on them are quite aesthetically pleasing, and nothing looks quite good on a classic round bar as campy shifters. i'll even eat the price difference between the chains, but Campy seems way too stubborn to consider that bike racing has evolved and people want to have powermeters as well as a do-it-all cassette (11-26 or 11-28t).

for the weekend warriors with cash, yes, by all means, but it doesn't seem to be even trying to market to the amateur racers.

-sram red chains down the street are $90, 7900 are $75, Chorus 11s is $65 here, cheaper elsewhere

-11-26 instead of 11-25....

-a Quark 10s will work fine with Campagnolo 11s.

-Saris powerhub is Campagnolo compatible

Yep, wish they had a 11-28..12-27 and 12-29 pretty close.

[oldpotatoe]

Missing the point. Can you clarify?

I've read it and I don't get what the guy is saying either.

BUT great thread, very enjoyable.

[charliedid]

Have a gold one...and don't forget the cork screw.

Yeah, I didn't want to over do it. But let's not forget the belt buckle...SRAM ain't got nothing on that!

[john903]

Wow, 8 pages in 12 hours about an article about Campagnolo, now THAT is passion. Yes as (charliedid) stated the belt buckle is cool I have had mine for 26 years still in its case I take it out and look at it occasionally,nice.
My ride 2001 Hampsten with 2000 Chorus, pure perfection IMHO of course.

[Wilkinson4]

I'm a top 1%'er!!! In bike parts that is. Occupy Bike!!! Nice article. Thanks!

mIKE

[Serotta PETE]

Is still my Italian lust :beer:


Pete

[jimmyreqs]

I don't see a lot of people with Shimano or SRAM tattoos.

I saw a rider with a Delta brake tattoo the other day. I was surprised to see that.

[slowgoing]

The article makes me want to steer my future purchases towards Campy.

Love oldpotato's tatoo.

[R2D2]

Campagnolo is good. Shimano is good. I prefer Campagnolo as that's what I started riding and never changed when Shimano and Suntour should up on the scene. It worked well and I could and can still maintain it.

The same with offshore fishing. I run Penn although others extol the virtues of Shimano. Neither catch fish unless you know what you are doing.

[charliedid]

Funny....the same thread is happening in the Leica Forum at Photo.net

:)

[OperaLover]

That article brought tears to my eyes and put a lump in my throat! All I want for my 50th birthday is a SR Ti group to hang on the Pinarello Opera (with Record) that I got for my 40th! Bellisima!

[stien]

Can I be the first person to say:

:rolleyes:

?

[fogrider]

great article. but they got the delta brake story wrong...

The Delta was heavy (all that beautiful steel) and lacked modulation— it gripped too forcefully, in the opinion of many riders.

yes it was heavy, but it had good modulation, mostly because its stiff and didn't flex and it did not grip too forcefully. the dual pivots have almost twice the stopping power! but what do you need braking power for on a racing bike anyway, you want to go faster!

[OTB]

A good article and from a surprising source - Bicycling mag. I like the direction the magazine is going - more in-depth articles and away from just 24/7 type sound bites. They also did an interview with Eddy last month. I also liked the Ted King ride report on the Two Hundred on One Hundred with Tim Johnson and other racers.

And as for Campy, I'm a Campy man. I lusted after Campy when I got my first derailleur-ed bike, Bridgestone Kabuki Submariner (stainless steel) with Suntour components. The shop had Campy components that looked "mahvelous" in the display case. Now that I can afford whatever, I use Campy - it works well and great ergonomics. I also use Shimano, but on my cross bike since I prefer bar-end shifters. It's good too and Shimano's innovations have helped push Campy, which didn't copy cat but tried to create their own design.

I think Campy is smart not to try to be-all in the marketplace. It doesn't have the capital or mfg resources like Shimano, which got its money from the fishing gear business. Ironically, Campy's philosophy is like the pre-modern Japanese way of life - focusing & striving for perfection on a small set of tasks.

I noticed the same thing - the last few issues of Bicycling have actually been readable. I enjoyed this Campy article and the Merckx article.
AND, the article (thanks to oldpotatoe) started this thread.

Me personally, running Campy on 4, Shimano on 3. When I want to get exercise, or the weather is bad, I'll go Shimano, when I want to be inspired, I ride Campy.

I recently test rode SRAM and the hoods do feel nice, though...

Great to have choices.

[Dave]

I switched to Campy in '95 and rode nothing else since. Absolutely no regrets. I've moved on from 8 to 9 to 10 to 11 speed, always in the first year that each was introduced. Campy was first to have 10 speed, followed by Shimano, 4 years later. It seems that the same may happen with 11 speed.

As for the cost, I'm a tightwad and shop worldwide for the best prices. I don't pay $15 more for a Campy chain, or a lot more for cassettes.

When it comes to cost, don't just look at the selling price, but know that Campy chains last longer and whenever it comes time to sell, your old parts will draw a lot more money. The cost of ownership is not significantly more than the other brands.

[terry]

Entertaining thread. To SteveP-I still have that SI picture of the Campy SR crank in my workshop-the one with the caption "la crema del la crem". I've been on Campy since before DA existed & I have no desire to change.