Fixed gear tragedy

[BCS]

An 18 year-old cyclist was killed last night a mile from my house. I ride on this road almost every day. Tragically, he was run over by a fire truck directly in front of the hospital. His bicycle had no brakes.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-fire-truck-kills-bicyclist-winter-park-20111024,0,6503623.story

[Hawker]

Very sad.

[Wilkinson4]

Tragic. It sounds like the truck overtook and then turned right and the kid decided to try and beat it to the turn. Fault all around there.

Be safe everyone.

mIKE

[AngryScientist]

toddler son too, definitely a tragedy.

[redir]

Definitely sounds like a classic right hook. A shame.

[Fixed]

so young
:crap:






florida is the most dangerous state for cyclist or pedestrians

[gone]

Sad. As was said earlier, fault all around.

[benb]

I swear we had this exact same thread here a few years ago, perhaps from the Portland area.

Sad indeed...

[tannhauser]

"The racing bicycle, which was closest to the curb, had no brakes, so Detamore sped up and also turned to try to avoid a collision, Neutzling said."

So the cop can know the rationale for speeding up how?

Tragic that the kid died, but in no way can the lack of brakes be definitively blamed for his death.

[Ralph]

I believe Fl law requires brakes for road use. For a reason like this. Never understood the fixed gear no brake mentality.

As I read the paper this morning, apparently when he realized he couldn't slow down enough, he tried to speed up to stay ahead of the fire truck.

[Fixed]

kids grow up riding skate boards move to bikes some don't think they need brakes .
some fixed gear riders think it (brakes)ruins the line of a bike ,
others think it is not hip or it makes them look less brave .


being a father with a son that age i feel for his family and their loss

[rugbysecondrow]

Sad indeed. The article stated the bike was not damaged so who know if the kid hit a curb and flew off the bike or what.

I don't understand riding a bike with no brakes. Riding a bike with no brakes in traffic is really not smart.

[goonster]

apparently when he realized he couldn't slow down enough, he tried to speed up to stay ahead of the fire truck.
That does not compute. In the right hook scenario, the cyclist does not know the vehicle will turn in front of him until the truck initiates the turn. Speeding up only makes you hit the truck faster.

I understand that brakes are required on bikes in most jurisdictions, but in this accident it is the truck who violated the cyclist's right-of-way.

Think about it this way: a truck makes a right turn from the center lane, causing a fatal accident with a car in the right lane. The truck driver, and investigating police, then blame the dead driver for:

a) brake pad thickness below the legal wear limit
b) failure to brake promptly
c) "trying to speed up to stay ahead of the truck"

[Fixed]

That does not compute. In the right hook scenario, the cyclist does not know the vehicle will turn in front of him until the truck initiates the turn. Speeding up only makes you hit the truck faster.

I understand that brakes are required on bikes in most jurisdictions, but in this accident it is the truck who violated the cyclist's right-of-way.

Think about it this way: a truck makes a right turn from the center lane, causing a fatal accident with a car in the right lane. The truck driver, and investigating police, then blame the dead driver for:

a) brake pad thickness below the legal wear limit
b) failure to brake promptly
c) "trying to speed up to stay ahead of the truck"
i was going to point that out but i know there will be argument over it .
cheers

[beeatnik]

I've done centuries with guys riding brakeless and initially as a former brakeless rider myself, I didn't feel comfortable in pacelines or tight spaces with these guys. Yet, after hundreds of miles, I've realized that some guys dont need brakes for 99% of situations. I put a front brake on my fixed gear years ago since I'm not ambidextrous and don't like to ride fixed clipped in. Also, I could never skid like a pro. During my brakeless period, I would speed up and go into avoid mode when I knew I couldn't stop quickly enough or hold a skid (which is what is being assumed occurred in the accident). But the skilled guys never seem to panic. Fear can be a bigger factor in this type of accident than braking power.

[gavingould]

bummer all around. i imagine the fire truck driver isn't too jazzed on having run someone over.

[AngryScientist]

I've done centuries with guys riding brakeless and initially as a former brakeless rider myself, I didn't feel comfortable in pacelines or tight spaces with these guys. Yet, after hundreds of miles, I've realized that some guys dont need brakes for 99% of situations. I put a front brake on my fixed gear years ago since I'm not ambidextrous and don't like to ride fixed clipped in. Also, I could never skid like a pro. During my brakeless period, I would speed up and go into avoid mode when I knew I couldn't stop quickly enough or hold a skid (which is what is being assumed occurred in the accident). But the skilled guys never seem to panic. Fear can be a bigger factor in this type of accident than braking power.

well put.

[Fixed]

bummer all around. i imagine the fire truck driver isn't too jazzed on having run someone over.
he last thing a fireman wants to do
imho

[tannhauser]

Fixed or not, accelerating or not, the driver overtook, knew the rider was young and probably inexperienced, didn't wait and right hooked the kid.

This discussion is all about brakes and the cops have already framed it as such to avoid responsibility.

The kid wouldn't have needed brakes if the driver showed some deference. That he's a firefighter makes it more reprehensible.

[Fixed]

we can blame the
driver or the rider
but in the end
someone lost a
son and a father

[KF9YR]

I feel sorry for the cyclist, his family and the driver.

I had a woman pass me right before an intersection on my ride today (no turn signals on). Being a cynical person I subscribe to the "trust no driver" school of cycling.

Sure enough as I braked hard she turned right in front of me, then braked halfway through her turn when she realized I was there. I was able to stop before running in to her, smiled at the other motorist waiting at the intersection (he was making a gesture towards her) and I continued on.

It does us no good to be right when we are in a collision... It's much better to avoid the collision by anticipating it.

[AngryScientist]

I subscribe to the "trust no driver" school of cycling.



It does us no good to be right when we are in a collision... It's much better to avoid the collision by anticipating it.

+1 to both points here.

in the end it doesnt matter who's right and who's wrong when someone dies, there is no way to get a life back.

[tannhauser]

+1 to both points here.

in the end it doesnt matter who's right and who's wrong when someone dies, there is no way to get a life back.

It matters for FD driver's education, for sure.

And for all drivers.

It's an object lesson.

[ultraman6970]

Ex-tracker here, basically did all my 1st 3 years of cycling in a track bike with no brakes and yes u get used to the situation, u get used to skiid and even to bunny hops. If the kid tried to win the truck well... no comments about it, is clear who screwed up. And between u and me the closest vehicle to a locomotive is a fire engine truck, who wants to mess with them?? Well bad luck for the kid too late for regrets now... sad tho.

[zap]

Tragic loss for the family and friends.

Unfortunately, this sounds like an all too common motoring mistake.

Fellow cyclists, aniticipate driver errors and ride accordingly.

[Keith A]

Very sad...and such a young life. BTW, I found it interesting that the article pointed out that the driver of the fire truck was not hurt. Well I didn't expect that he would have been :rolleyes:
The driver of the truck, Ronald Ryan, 51, was not hurt.

[rugbysecondrow]

Fixed or not, accelerating or not, the driver overtook, knew the rider was young and probably inexperienced, didn't wait and right hooked the kid.

This discussion is all about brakes and the cops have already framed it as such to avoid responsibility.

The kid wouldn't have needed brakes if the driver showed some deference. That he's a firefighter makes it more reprehensible.


Reprehensible is a strong word, it implies something purposeful.

I have no idea who actually did what, but we also have to be intellectually honest here. It is hard to miss is big red loud fire truck and accident avoidance is improved with brakes. The more somebody takes their self preservation seriously, the easier it is to avoid some of these things.

[tannhauser]

Reprehensible is a strong word, it implies something purposeful.

I have no idea who actually did what, but we also have to be intellectually honest here. It is hard to miss is big red loud fire truck and accident avoidance is improved with brakes. The more somebody takes their self preservation seriously, the easier it is to avoid some of these things.

Strong but the truck did pass the rider and knew he was there.

In an ideal world, drivers in this country would realize the larger the vehicle doesn't give it more right of way, but more responsibility to watch out for those in smaller vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians.

The kid probably did something wrong, but he was just a freaking kid.

I know someone is going to say "We're in Merica! This ain't Amsterdam!" but in the Netherlands kids are taught how to ride in mini-mockups of real traffic. By the time they get to driving age they know how to watch out for riders because they've been one all their lives. So their car-bike accident rate is very low.

Two vehicles colliding when both knew each other were there points to both sides not knowing or caring or whatever who has the right of way or who is going to take it.

A systematized educational program would take care of that, but hey a large part of the country can't feed itself so what do I know.

[eolson124]

really sad.

[palincss]

et, after hundreds of miles, I've realized that some guys dont need brakes for 99% of situations.


Right. You don't need brakes for any situation, until you have to slow down or stop.

[TimmyB]

^Let's keep away from the brake/no brake argument, OK? Thanks.

we can blame the
driver or the rider
but in the end
someone lost a
son and a father
I could not have said this any better myself :beer: .

[witcombusa]

^Let's keep away from the brake/no brake argument, OK? Thanks.



Why?

It is completely irresponsible to ride on public roads with no brake(s) :no:

[Fixed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfkcUqZMZ94

[PSC]

The news article doesn't really give me any facts to establish who was at fault. I ride in a city and always ride defensively and after decades of riding I kind of have a "radar" that helps me keep out of trouble. I do know that it is not smart to ride without brakes.

[CunegoFan]

Riding in traffic without brakes is like dressing in a deer costume while walking in the woods during hunting season. If you you get shot then the hunter should have looked more closely before firing. Some people might even feel sympathy for you or the family you left behind. But sympathy does not absolve you for doing something incredibly stupid and irresponsible.

[dekindy]

Just offhand, I would think you would have to work very hard to get run over by a 51-year old fireman; especially on I would assume was a non-emergency run since the story does not indicate flashing lights and sirens by the engine. Someone with that much training and experience is highly unlikely to be at fault but of course accidents can happen to anyone. There appear to be witness so there is a good chance that the truth will come out.

Why would an engine be going to the hospital to pick up a patient? Accompanying an ambulance and standard procedure? I routinely see engines accompanying ambulances on calls that might require patients being transported to a medical facility but don't know if that is SOP everywhere or even if it is done all the time here.

[Gummee]

The article said he sped up to try and make the turn too. That implies he at least knew what was coming and tried to avoid it.

I'd almost guess he high-sided into the truck's path/wheels after he clipped a pedal on ether the ground (BTDT) or the curb (BTDT too)

Sad no matter how you look at it, but the lack of brakes isn't the issue. The issue is someone's right of way got taken and now he's dead. He could have been on pretty much any bike and had that happen.

I know I've had it done to me. I've thrown a shoulder into a Range Rover that hooked me turning into a parking lot. I was riding my Concorde at the time. Gears, brakes, and no tubulars. I survived. Shame this young man didn't.

M

[Peter B]

You have a toddler at home; you've become an adult. Practice the basics: be aware, be in control of your machine, be able to respond.

Bikes. Need. Brakes.

Now we can draw the concentric circle of responsibility that includes the fire truck driver.

[BCS]

Just offhand, I would think you would have to work very hard to get run over by a 51-year old fireman; especially on I would assume was a non-emergency run since the story does not indicate flashing lights and sirens by the engine. Someone with that much training and experience is highly unlikely to be at fault but of course accidents can happen to anyone. There appear to be witness so there is a good chance that the truth will come out.

Why would an engine be going to the hospital to pick up a patient? Accompanying an ambulance and standard procedure? I routinely see engines accompanying ambulances on calls that might require patients being transported to a medical facility but don't know if that is SOP everywhere or even if it is done all the time here.
Despite what the article states, the truck was turning onto a street that goes away from the hospital, not towards it.

[fiamme red]

Despite what the article states, the truck was turning onto a street that goes away from the hospital, not towards it.Yes, I wondered about that, after looking at a map. Why wouldn't he turn left into the hospital parking lot?

[TimmyB]

Why?

It is completely irresponsible to ride on public roads with no brake(s) :no:

Because a kid is dead. A toddler now has no father. His parents no son. The list goes on.

It always amazes me how insensitive people on the internet are to death. Maybe it's numbed senses from the death and destruction shoved down our throats from the mainstream media? Maybe it's violent video games? Maybe it's the anonymity of the internet? Maybe It's something else, I don't know.

But I digress.

My original comment was meant to prevent this thread from drifting down the terrible path of anecdotal opinion on brakeless track bikes and instead focus it on the unfortunate loss of life. Apparently that was too much to ask.

Brakes, no brakes, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Plenty of people do "irresponsible" things all of the time. Like run other people over with firetrucks.

Regardless of whether or not you (or anyone else for that matter) deem riding brakeless as "irresponsible," is well, trivial. And doesn't make his death any less devastating to his fiends/family.

All this speculation over the internet between people who were not there when it happened solves absolutely nothing :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: .

My best wishes go out to the kid's friends and family.

And with that I have nothing to add and will block this thread.

[rugbysecondrow]

No facts plus our personal biases has resulted in a quite a bit of stupid opinions about what actually happened. What we know is that he was killed, he was killed by a fire engine and has was riding a bike with no brakes. It is natural for brakes to be of the discussion. More pertinent might be was he wearing a helmet, did he have headphones on, had he been drinking, was the driver turning into his right of way, was the driver operating under sleep deprivation, was the driver under medication or under the influence? We don't know those answers, buy we do know about the brakes so it is a natural default.

It is a good lessens learned for other riders, that is how I view these threads. I am not passionate about this kids life, no matter how sad it is, but that doesn't mean this accident happened in vain.

The other truth is that some folks would defend a drunk on a bike, riding at midnight with no lights down the middle ofthr street after robbing a Liquor store just because he is on a vehicle that pedals.

[Ti Designs]

It always amazes me how insensitive people on the internet are to death. Maybe it's numbed senses from the death and destruction shoved down our throats from the mainstream media? Maybe it's violent video games? Maybe it's the anonymity of the internet? Maybe It's something else, I don't know.


Without anything to take away from this, there is very little connection to most people. Someone is dead - have you watched the news lately? The only point to this story for most people here is the one thing that could have been changed to prevent this. Insensitivity on the internet doesn't bother me that much, I'm pretty good at it myself (hey, is Steve Jobs still dead???). Failure for society to learn from it's mistakes has me a little worried.

[flydhest]

Given that someone was killed while riding a bicycle, an inherently dangerous activity, shouldn't we be condemning people for riding bicycles if they have children? It is risky, and you can reduce your risk by not cycling. Cycling is dangerous.

[William]

R.I.P.






W.

[aLexis]

It is completely irresponsible to ride on public roads with no brake(s) :no:

Totally irresponsible. I don't care how long you have ridden a bike on the track, or how good you think you are, please put some effing brakes on your bike. A couple of months ago on my commute to work, I was riding behind a guy who had successfully skid stopped at a few lights, then as we were going downhill in traffic, he was unable to react in time to a major traffic backup. Kaboom, into the back of a BMW and through the back window. Me, I was able to easily slow down and avoid the whole thing and call 911. I felt bad for the driver, whose day was ruined because some idiot thought riding with no brakes was a good idea.

[Matt-H]

Plenty of people do "irresponsible" things all of the time. Like run other people over with firetrucks.

All this speculation over the internet between people who were not there when it happened solves absolutely nothing :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: .


"Irresponsible" is some pretty strong speculation unless you were there or know the whole story. And you're right, it solves nothing.

[witcombusa]

Given that someone was killed while riding a bicycle, an inherently dangerous activity, shouldn't we be condemning people for riding bicycles if they have children? It is risky, and you can reduce your risk by not cycling. Cycling is dangerous.


So is driving a car but do you remove the brakes before heading out on the road?

[witcombusa]

"Irresponsible" is some pretty strong speculation unless you were there or know the whole story. And you're right, it solves nothing.


It is not speculation of any kind. It IS irresponsible to ride on public roads without brakes. Period. It may or may not have been a contributing factor in this case. That does not change the fact.

[Matt-H]

It is not speculation of any kind. It IS irresponsible to ride on public roads without brakes. Period. It may or may not have been a contributing factor in this case. That does not change the fact.

If you read the quote above my post, you'll see I was referring to the statement that the firefighter was irresponsible in running over the cyclist.

[tannhauser]

Sigh. We are getting dumber and dumber by the second.

"The only way to stop on such bicycles is to "put your feet down or fall over" — which is why the law requires bicycles ridden on roadways to have working brakes, Montes said."

http://t.co/99bd8iLZ

[tannhauser]

Here's the template used in the above story:

"ATLANTA, GA— A tragic accident has resulted in swift action by a concerned Atlanta City Council. Last month, while driving east on Interstate 285 on the city’s north side, 43 year old Wanda Oliver was distracted when her cell phone became entangled with her earring. During the struggle, Oliver lost control of her 2004 Road Rage Edition as she neared the Long Island Drive overpass. The 11,300 pound Suburban-RRE plummeted 20 feet onto Long Island Drive and Shanika Jackson, a 28 year old (114 pounds) northbound cyclist, invalidating the Suburban’s onboard entertainment center warranty and killing the cyclist instantly.
Oliver, who was treated at the scene for a bruised ear lobe, was not charged. Investigators cited the fact that it was unclear that cyclist Jackson had been riding as far right as possible. Lawyers for the distraught Oliver also say that it appeared that at the last moment the bicycle rider had swerved into the path of the oncoming Suburban. The Atlanta City Council reacted swiftly to what it termed “Just one more clear example of the dangers of mixing bicycles and real traffic, and it is the motorist who is forced to live with the consequences,” with a unanimous vote to ban bicycles on all roads passing under limited access highways.
RELATED NOTE: Puzzled bicycle safety experts at Bicycle Safety Professionals of America say Jackson’s helmet must not have been adjusted properly."

[rugbysecondrow]

We are getting dumber and dumber by the second, way to continue the trend.


Here's the template used in the above story:

"ATLANTA, GA— A tragic accident has resulted in swift action by a concerned Atlanta City Council. Last month, while driving east on Interstate 285 on the city’s north side, 43 year old Wanda Oliver was distracted when her cell phone became entangled with her earring. During the struggle, Oliver lost control of her 2004 Road Rage Edition as she neared the Long Island Drive overpass. The 11,300 pound Suburban-RRE plummeted 20 feet onto Long Island Drive and Shanika Jackson, a 28 year old (114 pounds) northbound cyclist, invalidating the Suburban’s onboard entertainment center warranty and killing the cyclist instantly.
Oliver, who was treated at the scene for a bruised ear lobe, was not charged. Investigators cited the fact that it was unclear that cyclist Jackson had been riding as far right as possible. Lawyers for the distraught Oliver also say that it appeared that at the last moment the bicycle rider had swerved into the path of the oncoming Suburban. The Atlanta City Council reacted swiftly to what it termed “Just one more clear example of the dangers of mixing bicycles and real traffic, and it is the motorist who is forced to live with the consequences,” with a unanimous vote to ban bicycles on all roads passing under limited access highways.
RELATED NOTE: Puzzled bicycle safety experts at Bicycle Safety Professionals of America say Jackson’s helmet must not have been adjusted properly."

[mister]

Here's the template used in the above story:

"ATLANTA, GA— A tragic accident has resulted in swift action by a concerned Atlanta City Council. Last month, while driving east on Interstate 285 on the city’s north side, 43 year old Wanda Oliver was distracted when her cell phone became entangled with her earring. During the struggle, Oliver lost control of her 2004 Road Rage Edition as she neared the Long Island Drive overpass. The 11,300 pound Suburban-RRE plummeted 20 feet onto Long Island Drive and Shanika Jackson, a 28 year old (114 pounds) northbound cyclist, invalidating the Suburban’s onboard entertainment center warranty and killing the cyclist instantly.
Oliver, who was treated at the scene for a bruised ear lobe, was not charged. Investigators cited the fact that it was unclear that cyclist Jackson had been riding as far right as possible. Lawyers for the distraught Oliver also say that it appeared that at the last moment the bicycle rider had swerved into the path of the oncoming Suburban. The Atlanta City Council reacted swiftly to what it termed “Just one more clear example of the dangers of mixing bicycles and real traffic, and it is the motorist who is forced to live with the consequences,” with a unanimous vote to ban bicycles on all roads passing under limited access highways.
RELATED NOTE: Puzzled bicycle safety experts at Bicycle Safety Professionals of America say Jackson’s helmet must not have been adjusted properly."

amazing.
really.

[tannhauser]

We are getting dumber and dumber by the second, way to continue the trend.

I thought the parody was humorous in a macabre way, intelligently written.

Anyway, way more observant than your comment.

[Ti Designs]

We are getting dumber and dumber by the second, way to continue the trend.


I have a theory that people adjust to the ambient level of stupidity. There's a threshold beyond which people notice just how stupid things are. For example, how would texting as a new concept go over 25 years ago? Communicating by typing with your thumbs on a tiny keyboard - really??? Since then the ambient level of stupidity has risen to the point where it's commonplace. Doing this while driving a car is a little over the threshold for some people - but not all.

[learlove]

I have a theory that people adjust to the ambient level of stupidity. There's a threshold beyond which people notice just how stupid things are. For example, how would texting as a new concept go over 25 years ago? Communicating by typing with your thumbs on a tiny keyboard - really??? Since then the ambient level of stupidity has risen to the point where it's commonplace. Doing this while driving a car is a little over the threshold for some people - but not all.

Not bicycle safety related but in ref to the post above about texting - My jobs puts me in airline terminals all over this country. I routinely see people (usually 2 business travelers) standing at the gate 3 feet apart carry on a texting conversation with each other. I've seen it on the crew van from the hotel to the airport - 2 flight attendants sitting in the van next to each other texting between them without talking. At this rate evolution will leave out the voice box.

[markie]

Not bicycle safety related but in ref to the post above about texting - My jobs puts me in airline terminals all over this country. I routinely see people (usually 2 business travelers) standing at the gate 3 feet apart carry on a texting conversation with each other. I've seen it on the crew van from the hotel to the airport - 2 flight attendants sitting in the van next to each other texting between them without talking. At this rate evolution will leave out the voice box.

They are talking about the creepy guy staring at them. Wondering why he has helmet hair. (you)

Back to topic. I like riding my brakeless fixie on the road.

[goonster]

It IS irresponsible to ride on public roads without brakes. Period.
Maybe for you. Please continue not doing it. Thank you.

[witcombusa]

They are talking about the creepy guy staring at them. Wondering why he has helmet hair. (you)

Back to topic. I like riding my brakeless fixie on the road.


Enjoy it while you can then...... :crap:

[witcombusa]

Maybe for you. Please continue not doing it. Thank you.


You clearly know best.

Don't worry about anyone else out there, they are clearly not in your league anyway :confused:

[Fixed]

. i miss the feeling on invulnerably that youth has
cheers

[markie]

. i miss the feeling on invulnerably that youth has
cheers

Yeah, I am only 38...

So am I the only one here who occasionally enjoys riding a brakeless fixie on the road? I commuted to work by bike for six months and never touched the brake one time. I figured my odds were pretty good without the brake.

[rugbysecondrow]

. i miss the feeling on invulnerably that youth has
cheers

What you, we, eventually realized is what that 18 year old never will which is that feeling is fleeting and false.

[rustychisel]

Yeah, I am only 38...

So am I the only one here who occasionally enjoys riding a brakeless fixie on the road? I commuted to work by bike for six months and never touched the brake one time. I figured my odds were pretty good without the brake.


you are wrong & I hope you never have to find out how wrong. [edited out long reply because...]

[flydhest]

Yeah, I am only 38...

So am I the only one here who occasionally enjoys riding a brakeless fixie on the road? I commuted to work by bike for six months and never touched the brake one time. I figured my odds were pretty good without the brake.

You are not alone. The number of people who ride bikes with brakes, but do not pay attention, ride too fast, are poor riders, et cetra, boggle the mind. There are risks everywhere. Moreover, to accurately judge the risks involved, one would have to know how and how fast one is riding under different circumstances. At an extreme, that I do not mean for legitimate debate, only to make a point, if you were to ride a fixed gear without brakes at 5 mph and a bike with brakes at 35 through the city, I assert, with a high degree of confidence, that the latter rider is doing something riskier. I know that I ride very, very differently without brakes than I do with brakes. I started riding a fixed gear without brakes in grad school, so 15 or 16 years ago. I don't recommend it to anyone.

I would love to see, though I doubt they exist, data on the deaths of various activities, including skiing, scuba diving, eating shellfish, eating fast food, and others, as a proportion of the people who do it per year, and see where things stack up. We all know that driving is very, very dangerous by that metric, but no one refers to drivers as "totally irresponsible" despite clear evidence of the risk.

No way for this conversation to be reasonable. People simply don't understand how to talk about risk.

[witcombusa]

Yeah, I am only 38...

So am I the only one here who occasionally enjoys riding a brakeless fixie on the road? I commuted to work by bike for six months and never touched the brake one time. I figured my odds were pretty good without the brake.

It's not YOUR odds that cause the problem. It's the other cyclists, pedestians, etc, that you may take out in a reaction situation. You have no ability to stop rapidly. how can you not understand that? If it were only you that might get hurt i'd say knock yourself out :rolleyes: but much like texting or driving drunk, it is the others around you that may well have to pay for your "choice".

Besides, the RIDE is not one bit different because there is a front brake on the bike, no loss what so ever to your enjoyment....think of it as an insurance plan if you like.....

[mister]

Yeah, I am only 38...

So am I the only one here who occasionally enjoys riding a brakeless fixie on the road? I commuted to work by bike for six months and never touched the brake one time. I figured my odds were pretty good without the brake.

there are some people that can ride brakeless fixed gears with a good degree of safety. they can stop pretty well, but more importantly they learn to pay attention and anticipate the movement of traffic...and do it well.

i rode fixed and brakeless for a few years or 3...i'd guess atleast 8000 miles of it.
i don't have one anymore though coz i just stopped riding it, and the track is too far away. then when i did ride it just for a change...the bike really handled pretty bad on the street. worked great at the track though.
all i have left is the wheelset.

sad for the kid, loss of life sucks, especially when it's something like this. IMO one of the greatest reasons not to ride a brakeless bike is in a situation like this everyone is focused on the fact he had no brakes...

[zap]

In light of this tragedy this is silly....................

Buddies on real fixed kit........no brakes........are some of the best, and safest, riders I have had the pleasure to ride with.

The 99% of bicyclers out there with brakes, blinking lights, refective clothing , short stem, etc. are dangerous imnsho.

[witcombusa]

In light of this tragedy this is silly....................

Buddies on real fixed kit........no brakes........are some of the best, and safest, riders I have had the pleasure to ride with.

The 99% of bicyclers out there with brakes, blinking lights, refective clothing , short stem, etc. are dangerous imnsho.


And they'd be even safer if they had a brake (or two) for unplanned events.
what does it hurt to have it there??? :confused:

[rugbysecondrow]

And they'd be even safer if they had a brake (or two) for unplanned events.
what does it hurt to have it there??? :confused:


What does it hurt to have it? That is the question. Sure, you might not need one, you might be fine riding and never using it, but for emergencies of all sorts, where coming to a quick stop is reasonable, having one could matter. So, why would anybody have a street bike with out one?


No way for this conversation to be reasonable. People simply don't understand how to talk about risk.

What advantage is gained by not having a brake on your bike, something worth taking the risk? I think that is the point most, including myself, don't understand.

[AngryScientist]

there are some people that can ride brakeless fixed gears with a good degree of safety. they can stop pretty well, but more importantly they learn to pay attention and anticipate the movement of traffic...and do it well.



my only issue with this, is that there is only one way to get to this point, and that's to spend time with the bike and learn. no one hops on a brakeless fixie and is good at it. it's during the "learning" period that can be very dangerous. i agree that seasoned fixed riders can be very good and very safe, but getting to that point can be a little dangerous. 99% make it through that transitional learning period OK, but of course, a few dont.

[zap]

edit for obvious reasons.......

No way for this conversation to be reasonable. People simply don't understand how to talk about risk.

[Fixed]

Yeah, I am only 38...

So am I the only one here who occasionally enjoys riding a brakeless fixie on the road? I commuted to work by bike for six months and never touched the brake one time. I figured my odds were pretty good without the brake.
i rode this for the last 5 years i worked as a mess.never was hurt
cheers
then and now 2 different things though imho

[Fixed]

i rode this for the last 5 years i worked as a mess.never was hurt
cheers
then and now 2 different things though imho
once you take a big hit your life can change

[mister]

my only issue with this, is that there is only one way to get to this point, and that's to spend time with the bike and learn. no one hops on a brakeless fixie and is good at it. it's during the "learning" period that can be very dangerous. i agree that seasoned fixed riders can be very good and very safe, but getting to that point can be a little dangerous. 99% make it through that transitional learning period OK, but of course, a few dont.

yes. true. hopefully riders would have a brake in that learning period. i did.
then i wanted that nice track frame that didn't have brake holes...

if i build another fixed gear it will have brakes and levers. not so much for the brake but for the hand positions.

[tannhauser]

What you, we, eventually realized is what that 18 year old never will which is that feeling is fleeting and false.

You called me dumb and wrote this?