What does it take to remove Campy UT cranks?

[merlinmurph]

I got my new BB bearings from oldpotatoe, and am trying to remove the cranks. The 10mm hex bolt is fully undone. The clip on the cups is removed. I'm trying to pull the cranks apart and can't get them out. :crap:

Keep in mind, first time I've done this. The cranks haven't been removed in 3 seasons, ~12K miles. The bearings are a bit rough feeling and there's a bit of a wobble in the crankarms, hence the bearing replacement.

I've even done some light tapping with a rubber mallet and block of wood behind the right crankarm, but not much movement.

I'm also trying to picture what could be holding the crankarms. Could the bearings be frozen to the crank shaft (or spindle, or whatever one would call it)?

Any idea? As is usually the case, I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened.

Thanks,
Murph

[oldpotatoe]

I got my new BB bearings from oldpotatoe, and am trying to remove the cranks. The 10mm hex bolt is fully undone. The clip on the cups is removed. I'm trying to pull the cranks apart and can't get them out. :crap:

Keep in mind, first time I've done this. The cranks haven't been removed in 3 seasons, ~12K miles. The bearings are a bit rough feeling and there's a bit of a wobble in the crankarms, hence the bearing replacement.

I've even done some light tapping with a rubber mallet and block of wood behind the right crankarm, but not much movement.

I'm also trying to picture what could be holding the crankarms. Could the bearings be frozen to the crank shaft (or spindle, or whatever one would call it)?

Any idea? As is usually the case, I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened.

Thanks,
Murph

If the bolt is out and the RH clip is off, methinks corrosion is holding the bearings in the cup. Tap, tap, tap..The bearing 'may' come off the LH arm but ya gotta get 'em out. Remember when you take the RH bearing off, take the thin c-clip off first, right above the bearing on the RH spindle, none on the LH spindle.

LOTSA grease in the cups, LOTSA grease in the BB shell, grease is good. As mentioned, wee thin knife, pry the seals off the new bearings, grease in there, seals back on.

Hopefully you have a bearing puller and proper installer for the bearings.

[wasfast]

The non-drive side isn't held normally once you remove the 10mm center bolt. The drive side has a retaining clip. It's a large C shaped wire clip on the outside of the BB cup. You have to unsnap it to remove that side.

If the non drive side seems held in place, you could partially rethread the center bolt and give the socket a few taps. Don't bang on it as you're side loading the bearings. Of course, if the intent is replace the bearings, it won't matter much.

[54ny77]

http://troll.me/images/thumbs-up-jesus-says/need-a-miracle-call-118-118.jpg

[merlinmurph]

OK, here's the latest.
I did a little more web surfing to see what needed to be done to replace the bearings. Looks like I wasn't fully aware of what was involved. I didn't realize they were press-fit onto the crank and needed the right tools to remove/install. No big deal.

So, I made a trip down to the LBS and told him the whole story. We have a great relationship and he originally built the bike when I upgraded from 11-year-old Campy 9-speed. So far, he has never replaced bearings on a UT crank, nor has one of the sister shops, so this will be their first.

I'll put the bike back together and ride it as is until I feel like bringing it in. I only have another ~40 miles to hit 4K this year, so I'll get that done.

For the future, should the bearings be serviced at least once a year? I was used to the old sealed BB that essentially never needed service and wasn't aware that this new design was more vulnerable.

You learn something every day. :cool:

Thanks again,
Murph

[rain dogs]

LOTSA grease in the cups, LOTSA grease in the BB shell, grease is good

This question is only due to my ignorance.

With the new UT cranks do you want grease in the BB shell? I know that with the old square taper, greasing the BB shell was an absolute No-No when using Campagnolo bottom brackets (per their literature)

I'd seen many a stripped BB cup on those square taper record hubs because the grease allowed seating that went over the torque limit.

????

[oldpotatoe]

This question is only due to my ignorance.

With the new UT cranks do you want grease in the BB shell? I know that with the old square taper, greasing the BB shell was an absolute No-No when using Campagnolo bottom brackets (per their literature)

I'd seen many a stripped BB cup on those square taper record hubs because the grease allowed seating that went over the torque limit.

????

Greasing the SPINDLE was a no-no, always grease inside the cup, whether cup and ball, cart bearing or the new UT/PT cups. Also inside the frame BB shell to prevent dis-similar corrosion.

Aluminum cup, steel bearing(both square taper/cart and UT/PT) where the bearing moves a wee bit-grease means no creak/noise.

[rain dogs]

Greasing the SPINDLE was a no-no, always grease inside the cup, whether cup and ball, cart bearing or the new UT/PT cups. Also inside the frame BB shell to prevent dis-similar corrosion.

Aluminum cup, steel bearing(both square taper/cart and UT/PT) where the bearing moves a wee bit-grease means no creak/noise.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well, certainly you don't grease the spindle.

Between the bottom bracket shell and the bottom bracket cups... was a no grease point on old Campy square taper BB's.

I just looked up the new UT crankset info in the manual (http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/7225447-10s_Ultra_torque_crankset-03-09.pdf) and it's no grease as well:

"Clean and degrease the threads of the BB shell"

Installation:

"blah...blah...blah....apply generously Loctite 222 as you screw the cup into the frame..... blah blah blah.... tighten by hand until you cannot screw it anymore. Do not overtighten."

No grease on threads... like the old days although Loctite 222 and handtight is new. (I was always too paranoid and put a teeeeeeeeny-tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny bit of grease on the threads of my BB and haven't had any problems, but Campy always said no and I guess just expected regular thread checking.)

[oldpotatoe]

Maybe I didn't explain myself well, certainly you don't grease the spindle.

Between the bottom bracket shell and the bottom bracket cups... was a no grease point on old Campy square taper BB's.

I just looked up the new UT crankset info in the manual (http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/7225447-10s_Ultra_torque_crankset-03-09.pdf) and it's no grease as well:

"Clean and degrease the threads of the BB shell"

Installation:

"blah...blah...blah....apply generously Loctite 222 as you screw the cup into the frame..... blah blah blah.... tighten by hand until you cannot screw it anymore. Do not overtighten."

No grease on threads... like the old days although Loctite 222 and handtight is new. (I was always too paranoid and put a teeeeeeeeny-tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny bit of grease on the threads of my BB and haven't had any problems, but Campy always said no and I guess just expected regular thread checking.)


Really dumb, IMHO. Great way to freeze cups in a frame. Grease and tighten is how I have been doing it for 25 years, including cup and ball and cart bearing BBs, and now UT. Glue and handtight, just don't know what they are thinking, but hey, I'm just a bike wrench.

[Dave]

I would never use the Loctite 222 method. Grease the threads and torque the cups to 35Nm. It's always worked for me.

[oldpotatoe]

I would never use the Loctite 222 method. Grease the threads and torque the cups to 35Nm. It's always worked for me.

What he said.

[Craig Ryan]

If I remember, C recommended the Loctite early on in UT history, but after a bit changed their literature to not include it.
Craig

[EricEstlund]

It's still there- at least in the Record cups I pulled out of a box the other day.

[ultraman6970]

I dont even have a torque wrech but I do put grease to the threads in the BB shell and the cups plus teflon tape just in case. Never a creak problem.

As for the creak problem I have seen in my cranksets that taking off the chainring, greasing the back of the bolts that are made of aluminum, plus the bolts holes in the crankset area and tightening the bolts really good take care of the darn creak. Some people uses oil between the chainrings and the bolts.

[Craig Ryan]

I'm not sure when, but between the '09 and '11 tech manuals they dropped the Loctite bit. It might be still in some of the printed material that comes in the boxes. Maybe they recommended it because early on they weren't quite sure it would be as good as it is and played it safe. ???
Craig

[leooooo]

Dropped in '11?

There for my '09 groups and there for my '10 group.

[Craig Ryan]

Dropped in '11?

There for my '09 groups and there for my '10 group.

They dropped it in the '11 working copy I have. They do mention using Loctite 222 on the fixing bolt though. No longer for the cups. So as said by about everyone else above, skip it.

[ultraman6970]

Campagnolo will have problems in the documentation for ever :) love the guys but the documentation is always a darn problem :D

[djdj]

If the bolt is out and the RH clip is off, methinks corrosion is holding the bearings in the cup. Tap, tap, tap..The bearing 'may' come off the LH arm but ya gotta get 'em out. Remember when you take the RH bearing off, take the thin c-clip off first, right above the bearing on the RH spindle, none on the LH spindle.

LOTSA grease in the cups, LOTSA grease in the BB shell, grease is good. As mentioned, wee thin knife, pry the seals off the new bearings, grease in there, seals back on.

Hopefully you have a bearing puller and proper installer for the bearings.

I had a stuck LH arm. When removing the LH arm with the ""tap" method, the bearing did come off the arm and appears to be stuck to the cup. I removed the cup from the BB shell. Is there any way to separate the bearing from the cup and reinstall that bearing to avoid having to buy a new bearing? Thanks.

[oldpotatoe]

I had a stuck LH arm. When removing the LH arm with the ""tap" method, the bearing did come off the arm and appears to be stuck to the cup. I removed the cup from the BB shell. Is there any way to separate the bearing from the cup and reinstall that bearing to avoid having to buy a new bearing? Thanks.

Depends. I have a Phil tool kit and Cyclus bearing installer...look for a bike shop that may have this. The brute force method may just kill the bearing but they are readily available. I have Wheels manufacturing ones, double sealed, nice bearings.

[AngryScientist]

I had a stuck LH arm. When removing the LH arm with the ""tap" method, the bearing did come off the arm and appears to be stuck to the cup. I removed the cup from the BB shell. Is there any way to separate the bearing from the cup and reinstall that bearing to avoid having to buy a new bearing? Thanks.

IMO, if the bearing is to the point of being seized in the cup, it's time for a new set of cups and bearings. the bearings arent that expensive, and you're going to need new cups anyway. use lots of grease next time.

[djdj]

I greased the cup threads, but did not add grease to the to the inside of the cups. Will any bike grease work?

[AngryScientist]

I greased the cup threads, but did not add grease to the to the inside of the cups. Will any bike grease work?

any grease period. "bike grease" is really a marketing gimmick. I've got a tub of mobil-1 grease in my shop that's lasting forever, and gets used for just about everything on the bike and my cars. it's as good or better than any bike specific grease out there for general stuff like bottom brackets, headsets, threads, etc.

and yes, you should absolutely grease the inside of the cups, it will prevent what's happened to you this time in the future.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=626952&stc=1&d=1318865612

[oldpotatoe]

I greased the cup threads, but did not add grease to the to the inside of the cups. Will any bike grease work?

Grease is oil in soap. Use any grease. I mix lithium with blue marine boat grease. About $5 each at local hardware store. I do have about 400g of a 500g tub of Campagnolo grease but that's for me or other 'special' builds.