A reply to Ben Serrota (and other amazingly useless opinions)

[Lifelover]

Thank You.

No one cyclist can express all you have done for the industry, the sport and most importantly the hobby.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . our local LBS a few weeks ago. I have known her for almost ten years. The store carries both Trek and Specialized and she told me that both of those companies place heavy pressure on her to give them 70% of the sales floor. That's simply not possible to make them both happy.

Five years ago I was in Kansas City and visited the Trek store in Johnson County. Great looking store with loads of stock--and two forlorn looking Serotta's on the top rack over in the corner. Yes, they were officially a "Serotta" dealer and had a fit bike, but I had no illusions of how assertively they were really trying to sell Serotta's.

Companies like Serotta simply have to adapt to how to provide best customer service--and yes, to sell bikes to make a profit--when they are faced with competition from behemoths like Trek and Specialized. Kudos to Ben for clear vision and doing what needs to be done.

BBD

[soulspinner]

Thank You.

No one cyclist can express all you have done for the industry, the sport and most importantly the hobby.


+1

[William]

....and he's a heck of a nice guy. :cool:





William

[BillG]

Thank You.

No one cyclist can express all you have done for the industry, the sport and most importantly the hobby.

Well said.

[jr59]

He is a very nice guy.

I just wish he would tell whoever answers the phone to tell the people calling trying to buy a bike this.

I really wanted one. And I tried to buy one, with no good result.

I'm glad to see this problem fixed for those of us that don't live anywhere near a Serotta dealer.

Oh well, I'm happy with my Spectrum, and there is always next time.

[Smiley]

I just delivered a Serotta HSG carbon for the Serotta Fit Lab program. Yeah shoot me for saying this but I know if this client had gone the route of a LBS he would be riding a Pinerallo.
As it is the HSG fit him better and he just got it from me and my mechanic built it up for him and we await his ride review comments. So for those wondering yeah I do Serotta's always have and yeah I do Bedfords too.

[oldpotatoe]

I just delivered a Serotta HSG carbon for the Serotta Fit Lab program. Yeah shoot me for saying this but I know if this client had gone the route of a LBS he would be riding a Pinerallo.
As it is the HSG fit him better and he just got it from me and my mechanic built it up for him and we await his ride review comments. So for those wondering yeah I do Serotta's always have and yeah I do Bedfords too.

So, if the client went to a Serotta dealer, he would be riding a Pinarello?

Don't understand nor do I understand Ben's comments. He wants to support Serotta dealers but will sell direct if the client wishes to buy direct, even in the Serotta dealer's vicinity?

[Climb01742]

a view from the peanut gallery...the web has upended a vast majority of business models...and recast what consumers expect and are willing to accept...and specialized and trek are playing hard (and harder) ball all the time...and serotta, like many many businesses, is trying to figure out what the next business model looks like. and judging by the note from ben, the search ain't over.

[Kontact]

So, if the client went to a Serotta dealer, he would be riding a Pinarello?

Don't understand nor do I understand Ben's comments. He wants to support Serotta dealers but will sell direct if the client wishes to buy direct, even in the Serotta dealer's vicinity?
Aren't there new, higher minimums to continue to qualify as a dealer? There aren't going to be as many dealers to support, shortly.

[oldpotatoe]

a view from the peanut gallery...the web has upended a vast majority of business models...and recast what consumers expect and are willing to accept...and specialized and trek are playing hard (and harder) ball all the time...and serotta, like many many businesses, is trying to figure out what the next business model looks like. and judging by the note from ben, the search ain't over.

But if trek and specialized can put pressure on a LBS to play by their game, why can't a small company? If Specialized, Trek or Giant sold direct those brand resellers would be livid and would drop that brand in an instant.

I think IBD support of a brand goes a long way toward selling that brand(s). Bike shops are supposed to be the 'experts' in the field. I think the 'Evan the tailor' model is better than trying to compete with "Men's Warehouse".

For Kontact-you mean Serotta dealers? Don't know but here in the republic, the Serotta brand is a small slice of what it was when ProPeloton was selling them in the late 90s. When I was there we easily sold 125-140 per year. More frames/bikes required on the floor may mean something since dealers pay for inventory, no financing, etc available from the factory.

I think ya gotta decide to support the local dealer or sell direct. Can't do both IMHO.

[jr59]

But if trek and specialized can put pressure on a LBS to play by their game, why can't a small company? If Specialized, Trek or Giant sold direct those brand resellers would be livid and would drop that brand in an instant.

I think IBD support of a brand goes a long way toward selling that brand(s). Bike shops are supposed to be the 'experts' in the field. I think the 'Evan the tailor' model is better than trying to compete with "Men's Warehouse".

For Kontact-you mean Serotta dealers? Don't know but here in the republic, the Serotta brand is a small slice of what it was when ProPeloton was selling them in the late 90s. When I was there we easily sold 125-140 per year. More frames/bikes required on the floor may mean something since dealers pay for inventory, no financing, etc available from the factory.

I think ya gotta decide to support the local dealer or sell direct. Can't do both IMHO.

The only trouble with what you say here is, what if there is no local dealer, or the LBS that is a dealer is so full of s**t that you won't go in and buy a tube from them. Then the customer is out of luck, and forced to buy a different brand of bike. I ran into this with a couple of other brands as well as Serotta, Moots being one of them.
Yea I know you and Pete now so I could call you guys, but at the time I was looking, I didn't.

Selling direct is a slippery slope to be sure, but if, and that is a HUGE if the co. and the dealer work together it should work ok.
If I ordered a bike thru the factory, and paid for it thru the factory, shouldn't the dealer get a check from the factory? Of course I can see a lot of problems with this. In fact I can see a lot of problems with a stocking bike shop these days.

There are no easy answers to this. All I know is I am very,very glad to know a few guys from this forum that can help me buy a new bike when the time comes.

[Kontact]

Just throwing this out: Waterford has been selling in dealers and direct for quite awhile. Given who the local Waterford guy is, it feels like a good thing that you don't have to go in there. But if it was someone worthwhile, it would be too bad.

To respond to BBD's two bike comment:
Serotta is a boutique brand, which means it may be a tiny business for a big dealer, or a decent amount of business for a small, boutique dealer. But you can't continue to be a boutique dealer if you have big dealer minimums and long lead times compared to your other boutique brands.

[1happygirl]

The only trouble with what you say here is, what if there is no local dealer, or the LBS that is a dealer is so full of s**t that you won't go in and buy a tube from them. Then the customer is out of luck, and forced to buy a different brand of bike. I ran into this with a couple of other brands as well as Serotta, Moots being one of them.
Yea I know you and Pete now so I could call you guys, but at the time I was looking, I didn't.

Selling direct is a slippery slope to be sure, but if, and that is a HUGE if the co. and the dealer work together it should work ok.
If I ordered a bike thru the factory, and paid for it thru the factory, shouldn't the dealer get a check from the factory? Of course I can see a lot of problems with this. In fact I can see a lot of problems with a stocking bike shop these days.

There are no easy answers to this. All I know is I am very,very glad to know a few guys from this forum that can help me buy a new bike when the time comes.

True. This does not just apply to bikes. I have run into this problem too. You want a particular item and they don't have it and won't go out of their way to help you get it.

Long live Serotta and the Serotta Forum. Thanks Ben !! :banana:
Full disclosure: I am not a paid spokesmodel.

[RedRider]

Serotta is reacting to changes in the market. The marketplace is always changing and so should the sales strategy of company looking to be competitive.
My big issue with bike selling is that Specialized, Cannondale, Giant and Trek have concept stores. Trek at least makes it clear to the public but the others offer greater margins, low interest loans etc to LBS if they sell 60-70% of their product. The consumer has no idea that they are getting biased advice when shopping at these stores. Given the opportunity, I do believe these companies would sell direct.

[Smiley]

Serotta is reacting to changes in the market. The marketplace is always changing and so should the sales strategy of company looking to be competitive.
My big issue with bike selling is that Specialized, Cannondale, Giant and Trek have concept stores. Trek at least makes it clear to the public but the others offer greater margins, low interest loans etc to LBS if they sell 60-70% of their product. The consumer has no idea that they are getting biased advice when shopping at these stores. Given the opportunity, I do believe these companies would sell direct.


This guy GETS IT, and Red Rider wins the prize.

[BumbleBeeDave]

There are no easy answers to this.

So true!

My personal opinion is that a small company like Serotta may not have any choice-they may HAVE to sell both through LBS and direct to maintain the kind of sales numbers to stay in business. Otherwise the huge companies are going to force them out. It's as simple as that.

How do you keep BOTH potential customers AND dealers happy? I am making the assumption that if a potential customer calls Serotta interested in ordering direct they will likely be referred to a local dealer--or at least the closest dealer--out of the company's commitment to those dealers.

But if the potantial customer doesn't want to drive hundreds of miles to a regular dealer for whatever reason, then that's that. Should Serotta lose a sale because of that? If they ARE close by, then the local dealer has the ball in their court--offer knowledge and service that makes the customer want to come to them and buy. If they can't do that, then it's not Serotta's fault.

Ben has responded honestly and forthrightly to a legitimate question . . . You may not agree with him, but I think he's doing the best he can to do the right thing for everyone.

BBD

[gone]

I think it's great Serotta is adapting to changes in the marketplace and I think it's really great that you can now go directly to them.

For my first Serotta, bought 8 years ago, I went to a Serotta dealer (3 of them, actually) and got fitted and ordered it through them. Since then, I've bought several custom frames and learned more about myself and what I like and bikes in general. If I were to buy another Serotta, I'd not go through a "local" (200 mile round trip) dealer since, for me at this stage, there's no value add. I know what I want, all I'll buy is frame and fork and I'll build it up myself.

Cool that Serotta supports that!

[laupsi]

sorry folks but I came in on the thread w/out understanding its origin. could someone please quote or give a link to Ben's original comment?

[laupsi]

sorry folks but I came in on the thread w/out understanding its origin. could someone please quote or give a link to Ben's original comment?

"X" that, I found it.

[ergott]

I see this model is being closer to the model of independent frame builders. I contact them, tell them where my saddle and bars go (the short story) and let them do the rest. That's exactly what I want and I'm happy to hear this is an option.

I really don't need a third party in the mix. The nearest one is over an hour away.

One thing to consider, they specifically mention that this is not a discount option. You are more likely to get a good deal from a local shop whether it's in the form of a better price on the F/F or on the rest of the build. There's the attraction of working locally.

[Smiley]

One thing to consider, they specifically mention that this is not a discount option. You are more likely to get a good deal from a local shop whether it's in the form of a better price on the F/F or on the rest of the build. There's the attraction of working locally.


Ergott also gets it too :banana:

[jr59]

If I was a dealer I might not like this idea so much, yet as the end user, I like it a lot!

I see both sides of this. The question really is, and I don't don't expect an answer.

Does the nearest stocking Dealer get a check when a frame is sold direct?
If so, I would have no problem with this type of deal, matter of fact, I would like it. The customer calls Serotta, orders the frame he wants, how he wants, and I get a check.

Sounds like a good plan, but I could see a lot of trouble with it.

Really glad I don't have these things to worry about!

[laupsi]

not a bike dealer or frame builder, just a goof who has this affinity and must ride/compete and who appreciates fine craftmanship and the zen of that glorious ride on that near perfect machine; if the IBS is honest and has the customer's interest as the focus of the sale then all should be fine. if the center of interest is the IBS survival then the end is not far off either way.

the Independent Fabricators, all of them, are in a position to work as they see fit. word of mouth is at their disposal, as it is w/the IBS, but for different/more pertinent reasons. if we stop paying big $$$ for custom frames the IF is out business, until that happens...

one key component that must be considered if you're the IF is whether or not you're content living the peasant life. I think any other option is probably off the table. the same can be said I believe of the IBS, not to be condesending, but their options for making bigger bucks are a bit more attainable, no?

[Fivethumbs]

My friend went to a dealer to buy a Gunnar and ended up with a fit that looks like an abomination.

[RedRider]

Does the nearest stocking Dealer get a check when a frame is sold direct?
If so, I would have no problem with this type of deal, matter of fact, I would like it. The customer calls Serotta, orders the frame he wants, how he wants, and I get a check.

Why would Serotta pay a dealer that did nothing for the sale? If I go to a dealer in Chicago to buy my bike but live in Boulder should my local dealer get a check too?
Have some dealers bought territories? If so, then the dealers should get a check if they have stood up to their side of the agreement regarding minimum sales volumes.
A good salesperson, good fitter, good bike shop, good manufacturer all add value. If you don't provide value to the sale then you aren't part of the deal.

[jlwdm]

I know a Specialized dealer (and one of my favorite LBSs) that had the misfortune of having Specialized open a company store very close by. The LBS then moved to another location but had to drop Specialized because they were within a certain distance of another Specialized dealer - although 3 or 4 times as far away as the Specialized company store was to their prior location.

Jeff

[EDS]

Serotta is reacting to changes in the market. The marketplace is always changing and so should the sales strategy of company looking to be competitive.
My big issue with bike selling is that Specialized, Cannondale, Giant and Trek have concept stores. Trek at least makes it clear to the public but the others offer greater margins, low interest loans etc to LBS if they sell 60-70% of their product. The consumer has no idea that they are getting biased advice when shopping at these stores. Given the opportunity, I do believe these companies would sell direct.

As a consumer I personally think it is pretty obvious when you walk into a specialized concept store. I also think, with the exception of the newbie looking for their first bike, that the consumer comes in to the shop with a pretty good idea of what they want.

People need to educate themsevles. If they are not educated enough to have an idea what they want and what options are available to them then going to a specialized concept store and buying a specialized is a good result as long as the shop gives an honest effort to but them on a bike that fits.

A bespoke bike is for the educated consumer.

[rugbysecondrow]

One thing to consider, they specifically mention that this is not a discount option. You are more likely to get a good deal from a local shop whether it's in the form of a better price on the F/F or on the rest of the build. There's the attraction of working locally.

Agreed.

[jr59]

Does the nearest stocking Dealer get a check when a frame is sold direct?
If so, I would have no problem with this type of deal, matter of fact, I would like it. The customer calls Serotta, orders the frame he wants, how he wants, and I get a check.

Why would Serotta pay a dealer that did nothing for the sale? If I go to a dealer in Chicago to buy my bike but live in Boulder should my local dealer get a check too?
Have some dealers bought territories? If so, then the dealers should get a check if they have stood up to their side of the agreement regarding minimum sales volumes.
A good salesperson, good fitter, good bike shop, good manufacturer all add value. If you don't provide value to the sale then you aren't part of the deal.


This is the heart of the matter;

Why would you want to be a stocking dealer when the customer could go direct?
I do agree that a good fitter and bike shop add to the value, but that holds true with everything in the LBS. Yet we still will buy online!

It's a hard question that has no answer!
As I said, I'm glad I'm not the LBS!

[Charles M]

People (some) are assuming that Serotta are not still doing everything they reasonably can to support the local dealer...

Having the direct option isn't an unconditional screwing of shops at all...


If there is a way to work through the local dealer, that's what happens... If there is no local dealer or the customer chooses not to deal with that lbs and there is no alternative, the customer still has an option.


Classic Serotta forum though... There are folks pissed with the monopolistic models from trekspecialized pushed by shops and pissed that Serotta wants to put business through the local dealer but then also angry that Serotta want to provide a solution for those not able to (or not happy with)using the local dealer.

There are great Serotta dealers.

Then there are the dealers that do nothing at all to support (insert brand), but don't want another shop to have access to the product and get pissed when Serotta works with the customer after the customer gets tired of trying to by a Serotta from that shop, only to keep getting madone/Tarmac crammed down their throat...



I totally understand trekspecialized's position. I also understand the lbs position. And Serotta are doing the right thing.



What I don't get are the b!tcha$$ customers getting pissed at companies trying to leverage their position through market changes that are happening because of technology and or that cheap a$$ people keep gaming the system (while expecting full customer service and warranty support).


Retailers and manufacturers would be so much easier to screw if they would just hold still...

[ergott]

This is the heart of the matter;

Why would you want to be a stocking dealer

If you truly believe in the product you should carry it. I don't sell what I don't believe in just for better margins.

[ergott]

People (some) are assuming that Serotta are not still doing everything they reasonably can to support the local dealer...

Having the direct option isn't an unconditional screwing of shops at all...


If there is a way to work through the local dealer, that's what happens... If there is no local dealer or the customer chooses not to deal with that lbs and there is no alternative, the customer still has an option.


Classic Serotta forum though... There are folks pissed with the monopolistic models like trek but pissed that Serotta will support the local dealer but also provide a solution when it's not possible...


Then there are the dealers that do nothing at all to support (insert brand), but don't want another shop to have access to the product and get pissed when Serotta works with the customer after the customer gets tired of trying to by a Serotta from that shop, only to keep getting madone/Tarmac crammed down their throat...

I totally understand trekspecialized's position. I also understand the lbs position. And Serotta are doing the right thing.


What I don't get are the b!tcha$$ customers getting pissed at companies trying to leverage their position when these things are happening because cheap a$$ people keep gaming the system (while expecting full customer service and warranty support).


Retailers and manufacturers would be so much easier to screw if they would just hold still...

Quit pulling your punches and let us know what you really think.
:beer:

[Charles M]

Requote me... I did tame it a bit on edit.

Shoulda added custom wheel builders :cool:

[jr59]

If you truly believe in the product you should carry it. I don't sell what I don't believe in just for better margins.


I really don't mind the quote, but please include the full statement.

In anything, bikes, cars, wedjits, whatever, if I am a stocking dealer, I need to make my % of the sale from my area. I don't need the factory going direct to the public without me being compensated for such.

If anyone does that, why should I stock their product, no matter weather I believe in it or not.

There are many things that I believe in that I don't stock, because of this. Why should anyone stock something if they can not make $$$ on such?

[Dave B]

Some of the companyes who are headed to direct sales Trekspecializedgiant used to pull their lines from shops who would sell or discount prices on their stock and sell them on line. So if the big companies go direct do they allow shops to sell their stuff and ship it to people or keep that policy in place?

If I found a good deal on a Giant and it was in clai, then I had to go there to get it insteadof trying to work out some secret deal to get it shipped to me.

[Kontact]

Two points:

Serotta's changing policies DO affect dealers who don't do TrekSpecializedGiant. Dealers with long association with Serotta.


The internet and direct sales are not the future. Cervelo went the opposite way last year and stopped selling online. When the price is high, the exclusivity and personal attention of a dealer becomes important. Try to imagine buying a Lexus over the phone.


Serotta needs to do what's good for Serotta, which ultimately serves Serotta's customers. In the short term, fewer listed dealers will increase direct sales, and make the average profit per bike greater for Serotta. But having built a business in part from in store Size Cylce fits and Serotta trained LBS staff, decreasing the number of listed Authorized Dealers may affect what customers think about trying to get a Serotta. Time will tell if this gets more Serottas on the road or not.

[Smiley]

Two points:

Serotta's changing policies DO affect dealers who don't do TrekSpecializedGiant. Dealers with long association with Serotta.


The internet and direct sales are not the future. Cervelo went the opposite way last year and stopped selling online. When the price is high, the exclusivity and personal attention of a dealer becomes important. Try to imagine buying a Lexus over the phone.


Serotta needs to do what's good for Serotta, which ultimately serves Serotta's customers. In the short term, fewer listed dealers will increase direct sales, and make the average profit per bike greater for Serotta. But having built a business in part from in store Size Cylce fits and Serotta trained LBS staff, decreasing the number of listed Authorized Dealers may affect what customers think about trying to get a Serotta. Time will tell if this gets more Serottas on the road or not.


YOU missed the point as I am pretty sure Serotta was never going to sell direct via the web in the sense that you think BUT through an extension of their FIT LAB and this means extending the reach of the FIT LAB. I should have a better clue about that.

[oldpotatoe]

So true!

My personal opinion is that a small company like Serotta may not have any choice-they may HAVE to sell both through LBS and direct to maintain the kind of sales numbers to stay in business. Otherwise the huge companies are going to force them out. It's as simple as that.

How do you keep BOTH potential customers AND dealers happy? I am making the assumption that if a potential customer calls Serotta interested in ordering direct they will likely be referred to a local dealer--or at least the closest dealer--out of the company's commitment to those dealers.

But if the potantial customer doesn't want to drive hundreds of miles to a regular dealer for whatever reason, then that's that. Should Serotta lose a sale because of that? If they ARE close by, then the local dealer has the ball in their court--offer knowledge and service that makes the customer want to come to them and buy. If they can't do that, then it's not Serotta's fault.

Ben has responded honestly and forthrightly to a legitimate question . . . You may not agree with him, but I think he's doing the best he can to do the right thing for everyone.

BBD

I don't think there is any argument that w/i a certain area, if somebody wants a Serotta, Serotta refers them to a local dealer. I'm sure that's what happens. AND if they are outside some 'area', Serotta would sell direct, most small frame makers do this.

BUT if a local dealer is losing a sale to the factory, because the customer won't go to the local dealer for some reason, then a examination as to why is in order, obviously the local dealer is missing the boat. The 'pressure' from the factory I was referring to in an earlier thread.

BUT to compete with any and all local dealers to keep the numbers up, I think that's a problem.

For the other post, Trek, Specialized and Giant could sell direct if they wished, but choose not to. BUT I don't think Trek, Specialized and Giant customers are Serotta customers in general and vice versa.

BUT it's interesting that the 2 Serotta dealers here in the republic are both also Specialized dealers. And the Serotta dealer in Denver is a Trek AND Specialized dealer.

[oldpotatoe]

Two points:

Serotta's changing policies DO affect dealers who don't do TrekSpecializedGiant. Dealers with long association with Serotta.


The internet and direct sales are not the future. Cervelo went the opposite way last year and stopped selling online. When the price is high, the exclusivity and personal attention of a dealer becomes important. Try to imagine buying a Lexus over the phone.


Serotta needs to do what's good for Serotta, which ultimately serves Serotta's customers. In the short term, fewer listed dealers will increase direct sales, and make the average profit per bike greater for Serotta. But having built a business in part from in store Size Cylce fits and Serotta trained LBS staff, decreasing the number of listed Authorized Dealers may affect what customers think about trying to get a Serotta. Time will tell if this gets more Serottas on the road or not.


Well said. I'm going thru this now with a commuter I sell. They sell direct, make more $ when they do. SO they encourage that with deals like a free lock. I cannot participate in the 'free lock' deal by getting locks from the manufacturer. So I do the selling( I have demo bikes on the floor), they get the sale. 'Selling' costs me money, not getting the sale costs me money.

Great product but I have switched to another nearly identical commuter brand, they don't sell direct.

[jr59]

I think I'll bow out of this thread!

There are no easy answers! I beat this drum hard. I would have bought a Ti Serotta, but the nearest dealer was 500 miles away and I could not close my shop, (not a bike shop) to go to their shop to buy one. When I called the factory, I was told I had to go to their dealer,or the factory. I bought a Spectrum and am VERY happy with it.

So I see the side of the customer. I also see the side of the dealer who stocks the frames, and invests his hard earned money in doing so.

As I said before, there are no easy answers here. I congratulate Serotta for addressing this problem, and IMO,it was a problem. Yet it leads to some problems with the stocking dealer.

Please note; I say stocking dealer, not some shop that says they are a dealer without 1 bike, or 1 or 2 bikes of a brand and call themselves dealers.
KEEP SOME ON THE FLOOR! (sorry end of mini-rant)!

I wish I had an good answer.

[Kontact]

YOU missed the point as I am pretty sure Serotta was never going to sell direct via the web in the sense that you think BUT through an extension of their FIT LAB and this means extending the reach of the FIT LAB. I should have a better clue about that.
I didn't miss the point. I read this:
Your existing bike fits well?
If you are happy with the fit of your existing Serotta but are ready for something new, we can build your new bike from your previous order information and an updated interview without the need for a refit.

If you are happy with the fit of your fill-in-the-blank bicycle and are ready to treat yourself to a Serotta, we can help you determine whether or not a new fit will ad value to the process or whether your new bike should be built to target your current position…and we can do that too.
To me, this appears that a customer can call and negotiate a new bike without a fitting based on their happiness with a previous bike, Serotta or not.

Today, we are more selective than ever before in choosing our dealer relationships, working exclusively with the retailers whom we believe offer cyclists excellent care, excellent value and pure, honest representation of product choice. And no, this doesn't mean only our largest volume dealers...it does mean our best….
Able to meet minimums in a bad economy.

[Smiley]

I have alot of clients that THOUGHT they were happy with their fit yet they were NOT fit right. So if Ben made this statement in my mind its pretty well lets say not to me right. When I was done re-fitting them they knew that they were off with their fit if you call making them bio mechanically efficient on their bikes the right fit.

This situation is NOT an easy one to address. Business models need to change to stay inline with the connected world.

[Fixed]

how does one become a serotta fitter ?
cheers
never mind i found it
you have to go to mecca .

[Climb01742]

I have alot of clients that THOUGHT they were happy with their fit yet they were NOT fit right. So if Ben made this statement in my mind its pretty well lets say not to me right. When I was done re-fitting them they knew that they were off with their fit if you call making them bio mechanically efficient on their bikes the right fit.

This situation is NOT an easy one to address. Business models need to change to stay inline with the connected world.

the variation in fitters is the biggest challenge that serotta's business model faces, IMO. and maybe the second is not making the shoe/foot/footbed/cleat an integral part of the fit process. without getting the foot properly aligned, the body can't be properly aligned.

[alancw3]

People (some) are assuming that Serotta are not still doing everything they reasonably can to support the local dealer...

Having the direct option isn't an unconditional screwing of shops at all...


If there is a way to work through the local dealer, that's what happens... If there is no local dealer or the customer chooses not to deal with that lbs and there is no alternative, the customer still has an option.


Classic Serotta forum though... There are folks pissed with the monopolistic models from trekspecialized pushed by shops and pissed that Serotta wants to put business through the local dealer but then also angry that Serotta want to provide a solution for those not able to (or not happy with)using the local dealer.

There are great Serotta dealers.

Then there are the dealers that do nothing at all to support (insert brand), but don't want another shop to have access to the product and get pissed when Serotta works with the customer after the customer gets tired of trying to by a Serotta from that shop, only to keep getting madone/Tarmac crammed down their throat...



I totally understand trekspecialized's position. I also understand the lbs position. And Serotta are doing the right thing.



What I don't get are the b!tcha$$ customers getting pissed at companies trying to leverage their position through market changes that are happening because of technology and or that cheap a$$ people keep gaming the system (while expecting full customer service and warranty support).


Retailers and manufacturers would be so much easier to screw if they would just hold still...


back in the early sixites when i was in college i remember the business model forcasts for the future. big business i.e. trek, specialized cannondale etc and the small mom and pop business i.e. custom frame builders will survive but that small to medium businesses will go the way of the dinosaur. i did not believe this then but i do have to say that i see it happening more and more and not just in the cycling business. it sadness me to see this but i am not sure what we can do to stop it. i guess there was alot to be said for msrp!

[Smiley]

the variation in fitters is the biggest challenge that serotta's business model faces, IMO. and maybe the second is not making the shoe/foot/footbed/cleat an integral part of the fit process. without getting the foot properly aligned, the body can't be properly aligned.


U got that same variation with Brain surgeons too :)

[Tommasini53]

. . .
Five years ago I was in Kansas City and visited the Trek store in Johnson County. Great looking store with loads of stock--and two forlorn looking Serotta's on the top rack over in the corner. Yes, they were officially a "Serotta" dealer and had a fit bike, but I had no illusions of how assertively they were really trying to sell Serotta's.


BBD

+1....I've been to that shop when in K.C. and it looks like a car dealership.

Any more I skip visiting shops that are Trek or Specialized dealers because I'm usually in the shop to purchase parts for repairs, lights, h-bar tape etc. Trek shops heavily emphasize their Bontrager branded swag while Specialized has their own brand of swag. There are many other suppliers/manufactures of parts but they really seem to be squeezed out of Trek and Specialized shops. I guess that's an indication of how much presure those dealers are under to move those brands. It is amazing how different the "independent" look compared to the car-dealer styling of Specialized and Trek shops.

[RedRider]

the variation in fitters is the biggest challenge that serotta's business model faces, IMO. and maybe the second is not making the shoe/foot/footbed/cleat an integral part of the fit process. without getting the foot properly aligned, the body can't be properly aligned.

The Serotta International Cycling Institute, SICI, has been teaching and certifying their dealers and other professionals for many years. The foot analysis is an integral part of the Serotta fit process even in the basic course. An SICI certification tells the customer that the fitter is proficient in the Serotta fitting procedure. If you know of customers that have not been satisfied with their SICI fittings you should let Serotta know...directly.

[Germany_chris]

I got the impression that Mr. Serotta posted that to let people know what was happening, not opening the subject up for debate by the masses. He needs to be mindful of his business and being that none of us are looking at the same thing he is we aren't really in a place to judge. Will he loose a few dealers, I'm sure, does he understand this, I'm sure.

I don't think anyone will argue that a dealer is the best place to buy a bike particularly a bike that costs what a Serotta costs if nothing else the dealer will keep the emotional I gotta have to and this and this and this under control i.e bring reality back. Purchases of this nature are best discussed ahead of time this is another good reason for the shop.

In the end I can't see how this can badly effect customers..

[BCS]

I got the impression that Mr. Serotta posted that to let people know what was happening, not opening the subject up for debate by the masses. He needs to be mindful of his business and being that none of us are looking at the same thing he is we aren't really in a place to judge. Will he loose a few dealers, I'm sure does he understand this, I'm sure.

I don't think anyone will argue that a dealer is the best place to buy a bike particularly a bike that costs what a Serotta costs if nothing else the dealer will keep the emotional I gotta have to and this and this and this under control i.e bring reality back. Purchases of this nature are best discussed ahead of time this is another good reason for the shop.

In the end I can't see how this can badly effect customers..

+1
well said. There is one Serotta dealer in Florida. ONE? I can take my fit numbers and deal direct with Serotta instead of driving 3 hours to a bike shop that features 11 other brands.

[Fixed]

+1
well said. There is one Serotta dealer in Florida. ONE? I can take my fit numbers and deal direct with Serotta instead of driving 3 hours to a bike shop that features 11 other brands.http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=110676&postcount=3
my old friend in tampa was a dealer back when ..
i think chainwheel drive is it as far shops go around here but i don't go to shops much ..
http://chainwheeldrive.com/brands/serotta-bicycles-beautiful-to-ride-and-behold-pg809.htm

cheers

[BCS]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=110676&postcount=3
my old friend in tampa was a dealer back when ..
i think chainwheel drive is it as far shops go around here but i don't go to shops much ..
http://chainwheeldrive.com/brands/serotta-bicycles-beautiful-to-ride-and-behold-pg809.htm

cheers
According to the Serotta website, Racers Edge in Boca is the only one

[Fixed]

According to the Serotta website, Racers Edge in Boca is the only one
oh the pain figures boca ....
cheers
thanks for heads up

[oldpotatoe]

I got the impression that Mr. Serotta posted that to let people know what was happening, not opening the subject up for debate by the masses. He needs to be mindful of his business and being that none of us are looking at the same thing he is we aren't really in a place to judge. Will he loose a few dealers, I'm sure, does he understand this, I'm sure.

I don't think anyone will argue that a dealer is the best place to buy a bike particularly a bike that costs what a Serotta costs if nothing else the dealer will keep the emotional I gotta have to and this and this and this under control i.e bring reality back. Purchases of this nature are best discussed ahead of time this is another good reason for the shop.

In the end I can't see how this can badly effect customers..

It doesn't adversely effect 'end use customers' at all. I am coming from the 'other' aspect of the biz, the 'other' customer for any manufacturer, the retailer.