OT: R.I.P. Steve Jobs

[paulh]

1955-2011

[phcollard]

Oh sh*t... sad news :(

[markie]

http://www.apple.com/

[chuckroast]

Wow, very sad

[jasond]

Very sad news. The man was a great innovator.

My guess is he knew he did not have long when he stepped down.

[avalonracing]

He changed modern life...For the better. An Edison for our age.
And it shows that all the money in the world can buy some time... but not enough. Cancer is horrible. Hopefully there is a young "Steve Jobs" in medical school that may change how we look at cancer.

[Climb01742]

yeah, he was edison in levi's and sneakers.

[microdraft]

Super sad.
I gained a lot of respect for him when I heard his Stanford Commencement adress. His story is inspiring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

[rugbysecondrow]

He changed modern life...For the better. An Edison for our age.
And it shows that all the money in the world can buy some time... but not enough. Cancer is horrible. Hopefully there is a young "Steve Jobs" in medical school that may change how we look at cancer.


Amen

[rustychisel]

RIP

.

[oldpotatoe]

1955-2011


Dear me..wonderful person, shame.

[Fixed]

i am getting an i pad friday now .
thanks mr jobs for making products even i can use
......

[Elefantino]

Never owned anything other than a Mac, since the '80s.

Thanks, Steve.

[Bob Ross]

Thanks, Steve.

^^^This

[jr59]

Rip

[tannhauser]

RIP indeed. Great innovator, but why the worship?

Jobs has no history as a philanthropist; I'm just hoping some news will come out that details giving history.

Otherwise, he will epitomize the heartless tech geek for me.

Again, condolences to all his family.

[gasman]

He did more than most of us will in our lifetime.
So sad
RIP

[pavel]

:(

[CunegoFan]

RIP indeed. Great innovator, but why the worship?

Jobs has no history as a philanthropist; I'm just hoping some news will come out that details giving history.

Otherwise, he will epitomize the heartless tech geek for me.


Unlike Bill Gates, Jobs did not have to use his money from work to buy respect. His work itself made the world a better place.

[tannhauser]

Unlike Bill Gates, Jobs did not have to use his money from work to buy respect. His work itself made the world a better place.

How?

You are right, his public financials indicate he's been hoarding it.

[Cinci Jim]

Last year the founder of the Stanford Social Innovation Review called Apple one of "America's Least Philanthropic Companies." Jobs had terminated all of Apple's long-standing corporate philanthropy programs within weeks after returning to Apple in 1997, citing the need to cut costs until profitability rebounded. But the programs have never been restored.

Fortune - March 5, 2008

[thwart]

Well, we aren't nominating him for sainthood just yet...

But we've lost a unique man who has substantially changed our world.

'Thanks, Steve' is right.

[tannhauser]

I guess he changed the world, certainly some things are more convenient but I've never had an Apple product and don't think my life is worse for it.

There are a ton of new articles on Jobs' philanthropy this year, so much so it pushed what I was looking for towards the bottom. Anyway, it's interesting: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/03/08/10-unusual-things-you-probably-dont-know-about-steve-jobs/

[tannhauser]

Here's a completely inaccurate bio written by the former logistics guy for the California AIDS ride who, incidentally, siphoned off large amount of donor money for personal luxuries: http://blogs.hbr.org/pallotta/2011/09/steve-jobs-worlds-greatest-phi.html

[Louis]

[retro grouch rant] One can't blame him for all of this, but I think it's pretty sad seeing so many people walking around head down, twiddling with some gadget.

Get real people, you're in the world, not in a little bubble of your own making. [/retro grouch rant]

Having said that, it is sad to see anyone die relatively young.

[fiamme red]

An Edison for our age.What did Steve Jobs invent? He improved on others' inventions, true, but what did he invent from scratch?

[rounder]

He came up with stuff that people loved. He built a company that created lots of jobs. He helped make people look at things differently and look forward. Good stuff. RIP.

[azrider]

Jobs loved bicycles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob_GX50Za6c)

RIP

[maximus]

I respect Steve Jobs immensely. Not for his prowess as a CEO but for his vision and unwavering commitment he had for his own ideas. His confidence defined him. Steve didn't believe in the PR machine or focus group testing products on consumers. It's a lot easier to listen to what people want and give it to them.

Imagine what consumers would have said when handed an iPhone before launch - "oh - I think it needs buttons". Steve always said the hell with you. The commentary on his philanthropy - who knows what he really did with his money. He was a private guy - and in an age of corporate waste - he probably was better off doing what he personally thought was best... just as he always had.

I say the world lost a good person today.

[retrofit]

Peace

http://gallery.me.com/rockyshores/100825/Steve-20Jobs-20Photo/web.jpg

[MadRocketSci]

Thanks, Steve, for showing us how it's done...

[amgc36]

Steve Jobs is listed on 317 patents with the US patent office. Moreover, he enabled many to harness and use the power of computing despite coming of age in the '50s and not the '80s. It is about the user and the experience.

iTunes legitimized online music sharing and as is now apparent, paved the way for downloadable apps and the emergence of widely adopted cloud computing.

As for inventions - giants always stand on the shoulders of others. Is Newton greater than Leibniz? Perhaps Einstein was wrong (see CERN experiments).

When I think of Apple, I think of a singular focus on product and design that go hand in hand without compromise. There are few commodity commercial products that somehow manage to avoid the design and engineered by committee look and feel. I have a Panasonic tablet PC and numerous Apple computers. The Panasonic is considered best of breed for tablet PCs and has a commensurate price but the construction, design, feel and handling cannot be compared.

It will be interesting to see whether Apple, or any other company, emerges with the same conviction for creative, functional design that Apple has had under Jobs.

[tannhauser]

I respect Steve Jobs immensely. Not for his prowess as a CEO but for his vision and unwavering commitment he had for his own ideas. His confidence defined him. Steve didn't believe in the PR machine or focus group testing products on consumers. It's a lot easier to listen to what people want and give it to them.

Imagine what consumers would have said when handed an iPhone before launch - "oh - I think it needs buttons". Steve always said the hell with you. The commentary on his philanthropy - who knows what he really did with his money. He was a private guy - and in an age of corporate waste - he probably was better off doing what he personally thought was best... just as he always had.

I say the world lost a good person today.

I pretty much agree with this but the humanitarian part isn't exclusive of the product development guy.

When I was growing up it wasn't the visionary that was admired, it was the one whose focus was truly focused on the country, world at large, to make it a better place. In his way Jobs did it.

His estate is worth $9bil; I wonder what happens to it.

BTW as an aside many of his employees hated him, but deified him also. He was booted once as Apple CEO for being belligerent with them.

The press is going gaga over him now. In some sense if the fandom is repeated enough it becomes truth. The truth is complicated.

[tannhauser]

Steve Jobs is listed on 317 patents with the US patent office. Moreover, he enabled many to harness and use the power of computing despite coming of age in the '50s and not the '80s. It is about the user and the experience.

iTunes legitimized online music sharing and as is now apparent, paved the way for downloadable apps and the emergence of widely adopted cloud computing.

As for inventions - giants always stand on the shoulders of others. Is Newton greater than Leibniz? Perhaps Einstein was wrong (see CERN experiments).

When I think of Apple, I think of a singular focus on product and design that go hand in hand without compromise. There are few commodity commercial products that somehow manage to avoid the design and engineered by committee look and feel. I have a Panasonic tablet PC and numerous Apple computers. The Panasonic is considered best of breed for tablet PCs and has a commensurate price but the construction, design, feel and handling cannot be compared.

It will be interesting to see whether Apple, or any other company, emerges with the same conviction for creative, functional design that Apple has had under Jobs.

Some of this is debatable; iTunes increased accessibility to make some folks happy but also increased its share of your wallet. PCs were coming anyway. Is cloud computing better? I dunno, I'm out of a job because of it.

As for feel and form factor, that's a highly personal decision.

[azrider]

Sad that some can't/refuse to understand the meaning of rest.in.peace.

bygones.

[tannhauser]

Sad that some can't/refuse to understand the meaning of rest.in.peace.

bygones.

I don't think ol Steve is rolling in his grave right now because some guys are talking about him on a bike forum.

[MadRocketSci]

Technically, Steve jobs was not the best innovator/inventor, he was the best visionary the world has ever seen. Visionaries live at the "early adopter" part of the technology adoption life cycle curve (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle). It's like that line from When Harry Met Sally... "She orders the dish so well even the chef didn't know how good it could be."

[bkboom123]

the "philanthropy" thing cracks me up......why did he get rid of all philanthropy in 1997? Well lets see, the company was hemorrhaging money that he took over once again (yes he was booted from the company at a young age, but seriously.....no one has ever made a mistake in life? ever?) so would you rather donate millions to lets say African Tribes? Or would you stop giving money away so that the company you personally created could possibly turn a profit in the future? I would have done the same thing if i was in his shoes, and apparently his choice worked :crap:

side note: have never owned an apple computer, just the iphone.

[tannhauser]

the "philanthropy" thing cracks me up......why did he get rid of all philanthropy in 1997? Well lets see, the company was hemorrhaging money that he took over once again (yes he was booted from the company at a young age, but seriously.....no one has ever made a mistake in life? ever?) so would you rather donate millions to lets say African Tribes? Or would you stop giving money away so that the company you personally created could possibly turn a profit in the future? I would have done the same thing if i was in his shoes, and apparently his choice worked :crap:

side note: have never owned an apple computer, just the iphone.

That's a pretty simplistic way to look at it. A direct quote from him at the time was, "I don't have the time." Can't get any clearer than that.

Nine billion is nine billion of personal, not company wealth. All of the schools we went to were either paid through tax dollars or heavily subsidized through private donations.

In your humble opinion his choice worked for anyone who can afford an iDevice. Not everyone can. His arm could have reached (does reach?) much farther.

The pure, heartless entrepeneur seems to be the person a lot of people aspire to these days. So sad.

[bkboom123]

Simplistic yes.....but if I take over a company that is losing money and say " I am ending philanthropy because I found out the butterflies in the rainforest are perishing due to the power consumed in the negotiations for organizing charities " or say "I dont feel like donating money because the company cant afford it".....it doesnt really matter to me either way. In a time where everyone has to blow smoke up each others asses to be politically correct: I find straight forward, and sometimes brash answers, truly refreshing.

But that's just me

[CunegoFan]

Nice that you have reduced someone's worth in this world to how much money he gave away. Others might place a higher value on what he accomplished and what difference he made in the world. Lots of people are touched by the passing of Steve Jobs. Despite what he has given away, when Warren Buffet goes, the average man will not care one bit while few others wonder how it will affect the price of BRK.A.

[tannhauser]

Simplistic yes.....but if I take over a company that is losing money and say " I am ending philanthropy because I found out the butterflies in the rainforest are perishing due to the power consumed in the negotiations for organizing charities " or say "I dont feel like donating money because the company cant afford it".....it doesnt really matter to me either way. In a time where everyone has to blow smoke up each others asses to be politically correct: I find straight forward, and sometimes brash answers, truly refreshing.

But that's just me

So basically you just ignored everything I said and repeated yourself.
I admire straight talkers too, as long as they are smart.

[tannhauser]

Nice that you have reduced someone's worth in this world to how much money he gave away. Others might place a higher value on what he accomplished and what difference he made in the world. Lots of people are touched by the passing of Steve Jobs. Despite what he has given away, when Warren Buffet goes, the average man will not care one bit while few others wonder how it will affect the price of BRK.A.

Why doesn't anyone on this forum use the quote button? Are you talking me or the ether?

Didn't do that and you're putting words in my mouth. Read it again and respond accordingly.
The average man won't care because he won't know how Buffet's life has touched him.
The legacy Jobs leaves is tangible, hence better?

[Chance]

That's a pretty simplistic way to look at it. A direct quote from him at the time was, "I don't have the time." Can't get any clearer than that.

Nine billion is nine billion of personal, not company wealth. All of the schools we went to were either paid through tax dollars or heavily subsidized through private donations.

In your humble opinion his choice worked for anyone who can afford an iDevice. Not everyone can. His arm could have reached (does reach?) much farther.

The pure, heartless entrepeneur seems to be the person a lot of people aspire to these days. So sad.
Was it not his 9 billion to do whatever he wanted with? Who are we to decide for him what was appropriate?

When someone here buys a $5,000 bike why don't they buy a $1,000 bike instead and donate the other $4,000? The saddest part in this is that you think society has a "right" to expect more from him. And that's hard to comprehend.

[amgc36]

Why doesn't anyone on this forum use the quote button? Are you talking me or the ether?

Didn't do that and you're putting words in my mouth. Read it again and respond accordingly.
The average man won't care because he won't know how Buffet's life has touched him.
The legacy Jobs leaves is tangible, hence better?

How do you know what Steve Jobs decided to do with his money? Perhaps things are squared away and it will be disbursed.

Also, philanthropy in general is good but philanthropy as tax shelter is something else altogether. Finally, there are many recipients of donations, not all of which put the funds to noble use.

I for one would dismount the high horse and speculate rather than cast aspersions on a public figure.

[rphetteplace]

The company I work for is a global supplier for Apple. They are far and a way the best customer we have imho. Willing to pay for quality, and not chase the nickel. Early in the business relationship our company had to fly out product for Steve Job to personally sign off on. Pretty hands on guy, and I'm sure he'll be missed by his company and the world as an innovator.

rip

[azrider]

Maybe those who don't use the quote button, don't want to be associated with someone who has the poor taste to lambast a guy who's just recently passed and secondly associate themselves with someone who obviously has an axe to grind (remember something being babbled about Jobs responsibility for a lost job). But again, just a thought so please don't generalize this post also and confuse it with something that may have been inferred earlier.

i just find whining about what one did with their 'own' money poor taste....especially on the same day the guy passed.

bygones.

[Tom]

Whatever, I know somebody that is a pretty good scientist in the biology field, to the point of being awarded a Lasker because he turned genetic dogma on its head by figuring out what micro RNA are and what they do... I'm an IBM mainframe guy, biased that way and we were arguing personal computers and his point was that he didn't want anything to get between him and his thought - he didn't want to have to work to learn something, he wanted to just have it do what he needed it to do. This guy speaking was no idiot, yet he thought Macs were the thing. Every October when they're going to announce the Nobel for Medicine and Physiology I check Google that morning so I can tell my Dad to call him before he calls my Dad. That's what I think Jobs was so good at seeing - boil down the complex so it is simple enough for anyone to access. The thumbwheel is brilliant. Even I can get it on the first try. The technology behind something can be out beyond quantum physics, but if nobody can use it there's no value at all. If they get how to pilot it... then you got a Jobs.

Should he have become an Andrew Carnegie Bill Gates philanthropist? Yes. No F-ing question. I think that if you get that good, then that's you responsibility. I turn Marxism on its head: to each they give according to their ability. I like screwing with the libertarians.

[SoCalSteve]

Please...everyone,let's keep this civil! I'd hate to have to close this thread.

Oh, btw, I'm typing this on my iPad and just made a call on my iPhone. Both amazing pieces of kit.

RIP Steve Jobs

[tannhauser]

Was it not his 9 billion to do whatever he wanted with? Who are we to decide for him what was appropriate?

When someone here buys a $5,000 bike why don't they buy a $1,000 bike instead and donate the other $4,000? The saddest part in this is that you think society has a "right" to expect more from him. And that's hard to comprehend.

It's sad, alright. It's sad because you think $9bil isn't enough personal wealth.

I don't want his money, I don't think society has a right to it. It's Jobs' to do with what he wants. Does building a large company and being widely admired do it for me? No. Apparently it didn't do it for Rockefeller and Gates.

Where did you go to school and how was that paid for?

[bfd]

Last year the founder of the Stanford Social Innovation Review called Apple one of "America's Least Philanthropic Companies." Jobs had terminated all of Apple's long-standing corporate philanthropy programs within weeks after returning to Apple in 1997, citing the need to cut costs until profitability rebounded. But the programs have never been restored.

Fortune - March 5, 2008

I think people need to lighten up. By the time this quote was made in 2008, Steve probably had other things on his mind like fighting cancer. Yup, it was 2008 when he started losing weight and rumors were flying that he was ill.

Bottom line, the guy was a visionary. His vision made Apple and millions of happy customers. Good Luck!

[tannhauser]

Maybe those who don't use the quote button, don't want to be associated with someone who has the poor taste to lambast a guy who's just recently passed and secondly associate themselves with someone who obviously has an axe to grind (remember something being babbled about Jobs responsibility for a lost job). But again, just a thought so please don't generalize this post also and confuse it with something that may have been inferred earlier.

i just find whining about what one did with their 'own' money poor taste....especially on the same day the guy passed.

bygones.

Wait, we're just talking. "Whining, associated, babbled" Jeez, way to have a civilized conversation.

When are we supposed to talk about this? Really, he's dead. And not listening.

bygones. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

[tannhauser]

Whatever, I know somebody that is a pretty good scientist in the biology field, to the point of being awarded a Lasker because he turned genetic dogma on its head by figuring out what micro RNA are and what they do... I'm an IBM mainframe guy, biased that way and we were arguing personal computers and his point was that he didn't want anything to get between him and his thought - he didn't want to have to work to learn something, he wanted to just have it do what he needed it to do. This guy speaking was no idiot, yet he thought Macs were the thing. Every October when they're going to announce the Nobel for Medicine and Physiology I check Google that morning so I can tell my Dad to call him before he calls my Dad. That's what I think Jobs was so good at seeing - boil down the complex so it is simple enough for anyone to access. The thumbwheel is brilliant. Even I can get it on the first try. The technology behind something can be out beyond quantum physics, but if nobody can use it there's no value at all. If they get how to pilot it... then you got a Jobs.

Should he have become an Andrew Carnegie Bill Gates philanthropist? Yes. No F-ing question. I think that if you get that good, then that's you responsibility. I turn Marxism on its head: to each they give according to their ability. I like screwing with the libertarians.

Apparently you are as old school as I am. We appear to be in the minority.

[azrider]

Here is something worth quoting:

‎"If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something." -Steve Jobs

[tannhauser]

How do you know what Steve Jobs decided to do with his money? Perhaps things are squared away and it will be disbursed.

Also, philanthropy in general is good but philanthropy as tax shelter is something else altogether. Finally, there are many recipients of donations, not all of which put the funds to noble use.

I for one would dismount the high horse and speculate rather than cast aspersions on a public figure.

Google Steve Jobs philanthropy, there's not a lot of encouraging evidence. A man of his wealth can easily set up the apparatus to vet noble causes.

You say I'm on a high horse? Funny, we used to call that social responsibility, something everyone had.



Pretty rare commodity these days.

PS I don't know what your last line means.

[tuxbailey]

His 2005 Standford commencement speech. Worth listening if you haven't done so (or re-listen.) Sadly, he thought his cancer was cured and he would go on for a few more decades, sadly it was only for a few years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

Like others said, I admire him for his visions and the ability make complex stuff simple to use. Even my 91 year old grandfather could learn how to use facebook and go to the internet with the iPad (writing Chinese on it) while he never touch a computer before. That certainly enriched my grandfather's life a lot, maybe even better than giving him $500 in cash.

[tannhauser]

I think people need to lighten up. By the time this quote was made in 2008, Steve probably had other things on his mind like fighting cancer. Yup, it was 2008 when he started losing weight and rumors were flying that he was ill.

Bottom line, the guy was a visionary. His vision made Apple and millions of happy customers. Good Luck!


He terminated funding in 97, the story said it had not yet been resurrected in 2008. He had a lot of time to think about funding philanthropy.

I'm all about light.

[ORMojo]

Technically, Steve jobs was not the best innovator/inventor, he was the best visionary the world has ever seen.

Not even close.

Even PCWorld only lists him as #4 in the Top 50 Tech Visionaries.

There are innumerable "non-tech" visionaries through history that have far surpassed Jobs. da Vinci, anyone?

[akelman]

I don't feel like getting into a fight while the body's still cooling, but it seems to me that he was an amazing visionary, a brilliant entrepreneur, an individual who enriched literally hundreds of millions of lives (not just with Mac but also Pixar), and yet he also was a ruthless businessman (show me a billionaire who isn't, right?), very hard on his employees (even if they admired him), and someone who engaged in highly questionable business practices (for example, the Chinese factories that fabricated the screens for iPhones and iPads apparently used known carcinogens in their production process). Which, from where I sit, just means that he was human.

That said, none of that interests me nearly as much as the outpouring of affection and sadness that I've seen this evening. And it strikes me that this emotion isn't about the loss of a business leader, a job creator, or even an innovator, but a cultural touchstone, someone whose products became a part of so many people's identities. If I had to draw an analogy, I would say that the response to his death reminds of when John Lennon or, at a smaller scale, David Foster Wallace or Jim Henson passed. All of them, including Jobs, were young enough that they were still producing brilliant work. All of them should have had years left. And all of them were cultural touchstones.

As for me, I'm sad to see him go -- and not just because I love my iPhone, my MacBooks, and the Toy Story movies -- and I hope that we learn in the coming days that his estate will, in some measure, help those less fortunate than he was (like Carnegie and Rockefeller and Stanford before him, all men who, it has to be said, left behind very complicated legacies). Most of all, though, I hope his loved ones find a way to shelter themselves from the public din surrounding his death so that they can mourn. They deserve some peace, I think.

[MadRocketSci]

Not even close.

Even PCWorld only lists him as #4 in the Top 50 Tech Visionaries.

There are innumerable "non-tech" visionaries through history that have far surpassed Jobs. da Vinci, anyone?
Da Vinci - artist, scientist, inventor...not visionary by the definition I referenced.

[tuxbailey]

I don't feel like getting into a fight while the body's still cooling, but it seems to me that he was an amazing visionary, a brilliant entrepreneur, an individual who enriched literally hundreds of millions of lives (not just with Mac but also Pixar), and yet he also was a ruthless businessman (show me a billionaire who isn't, right?), very hard on his employees (even if they admired him), and someone who engaged in highly questionable business practices (for example, the Chinese factories that fabricated the screens for iPhones and iPads apparently used known carcinogens in their production process). Which, from where I sit, just means that he was human.

That said, none of that interests me nearly as much as the outpouring of affection and sadness that I've seen this evening. And it strikes me that this emotion isn't about the loss of a business leader, a job creator, or even an innovator, but a cultural touchstone, someone whose products became a part of so many people's identities. If I had to draw an analogy, I would say that the response to his death reminds of when John Lennon or, at a smaller scale, David Foster Wallace or Jim Henson passed. All of them, including Jobs, were young enough that they were still producing brilliant work. All of them should have had years left. And all of them were cultural touchstones.

As for me, I'm sad to see him go -- and not just because I love my iPhone, my MacBooks, and the Toy Story movies -- and I hope that we learn in the coming days that his estate will, in some measure, help those less fortunate than he was (like Carnegie and Rockefeller and Stanford before him, all men who, it has to be said, left behind very complicated legacies). Most of all, though, I hope his loved ones find a way to shelter themselves from the public din surrounding his death so that they can mourn. They deserve some peace, I think.


Very well said. I think your post really summarizes how most feel.

[ORMojo]

Da Vinci - artist, scientist, inventor...not visionary by the definition I referenced.

"by the definition I referenced" . . . and there is the rub . . .

First of all, the definition you quoted is not a definition of a "visionary" - the word is not even mentioned once in the Widipedia article ("Technology Adoption Lifecycle") you cite. Your citation "describes the adoption or acceptance of a new product or innovation" but not the visionary precursor.

Second, even if that article does somehow define a visionary, it defines one only in the world of technology, since that was the exclusive focus of your citation.

Even the "Diffusion of Innovations" theory (that is one of the main theories behind your citation . . . and the subject of a book I have read) does not address the full spectrum of human visionary history, only the world of material innovations.

I don't argue Jobs' impact, but he doesn't belong among the world's greatest visionaries, IMO. da Vinci (and many others throughout history) was a visionary far above & beyond Jobs in ways either much broader than, or exclusive or, technology.

[1happygirl]

That's a pretty simplistic way to look at it. A direct quote from him at the time was, "I don't have the time." Can't get any clearer than that.

Nine billion is nine billion of personal, not company wealth. All of the schools we went to were either paid through tax dollars or heavily subsidized through private donations.

In your humble opinion his choice worked for anyone who can afford an iDevice. Not everyone can. His arm could have reached (does reach?) much farther.

The pure, heartless entrepeneur seems to be the person a lot of people aspire to these days. So sad.
-100000
Besides I always belive the quotes in the paper :no:

Ahh. RIP
All the peeps he employed and made wealthy wouldn't have been able to have the lifestyle to pay the taxes on the schools etc. without his employment
Viva le Jobs!!!!
I will miss you. What an inspiration on how to live life to the fullest & take risks. Great individualist.
ON an even more personal note, I grew up on Apples. Since Jobs was so identified with the company, I feel like a part of my childhood is gone. I am growing up and getting to the time in life where peeps are moving on upstairs. Jobs said life is short. Cherish every minute.

[Ray]

I don't know anything about Steve Jobs the man and I won't judge what I don't know anything about. I know a fair amount about Steve Jobs the visionary and the products that wouldn't have come to market without his vision and determination. And in that sense, he was an overwhelming presence who's had a significant impact on the way I live my day to day life. Even if you've never used an Apple product, he's had a huge impact on yours too because nearly every tech company that deals in the consumer marketplace has been enormously influenced by him, even if only trying to chase and compete with some of what Apple offered in its products. You might prefer Windows or Android, but neither of those happened until after Jobs threw down the gauntlet on his version of those technologies and made them appealing to the masses. No small accomplishment.

I'm sure Apple will continue to be successful as it releases the evolutionary improvements and updates to the produces already in stores or in the pipeline. They're an established company and they'll continue to make good stuff. But what I have serious doubts about is whether anyone there will have both the vision to see the next big thing among the zillions of small ideas floating around out there, see how it can be developed to transform the way we work and live, AND have the clout within Apple to kick enough asses to bring it to market in a form we'll all be amazed by and take for granted a couple of years later. When its time to have the next great idea, find the next new iphone or ipod or mac - will Apple still be driving the industry? THAT's what I have serious doubts about because that's what I think Steve Jobs did in a singular way - I don't think that can be replaced. I'm sure there's a kid somewhere in a garage today having those ideas and working on them and in 30 years we'll be singing his or her praises, but Jobs was actually able to continue to innovate like a mutha from within the bowels of a huge company and put that huge company to work on his visions. Not easily or often done. Most big successful companies seem to get obsessed with maintaining market share or growing it a bit - he was always out there pushing and developing new markets from the structure of a very successful company. Very very rare. In that sense, he'll be hugely missed.

BTW, I've seen Steve Jobs RIP threads on about half a dozen forums I frequent - this is the ONLY one that's turned virulent and nasty. Might be worth having a glance in a mirror on that. A guy just died. He was human and flawed, but he wasn't Hitler or Bin Laden and the level of judgement of his character flaws before the body's even had a chance to go cold is a bit much. I don't spend nearly the time here I used to because cycling (and more so the obsession with bikes) has taken on a much smaller role in my life. But I still consider a lot of folks here online friends and I've met and ridden with many of you. But the way threads like this can turn nasty on a dime make this a much less appealing place...

-Ray

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . will truly show what role he really played at Apple, IMHO. It will take that long for things he originated or drove to finish coming through the pipeline to actual production. Starting now the original ideas will have to come from other and be developed and shepherded through the development and production process by others.

Will they maintain the singular vision and originality that characterized products that he conceptualized and/or originated? That will tell how much Apple truly misses his genius--or lack of it.

As for the rest of this thread, the guy's dead. Cut him some slack.

BBD

[paulh]

Sorry I started it.

Close it.

It won't be long before the "fan boy", iSheep, "where's Blu-ray?", over priced, under featured, comments start

[firerescuefin]

He was clearly brilliant and a visionary... but, none of us knew him. Let's not be "offended" because some are not fanboys or supportive of his personal decisions and/or business practices. The last time I checked this was a forum where discussion took place and differing opinions were welcomed.

[dekindy]

The Pirates of Silicon Valley is a movie made in 1999 about Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. It is not very flattering to either one of them and is supposed to be factual regarding them personally but some facts relating to the companies and products had to be distorted or rewritten due to the short length of the movie, really needed to be a multi-part miniseries. They both stole everything they started out with and Jobs was a deadbeat Dad and hippie that belittled and berated his employees and worked them to death. Your typical unethical, amorale entreprenuer. Supoosedly both would have went to prison for stealing if anyone had the foresight to realize what they either willingly gave up or was taken from them. I guess now all is forgiven because he hit it big.

I have never used Apple because I used computers exclusively for business and have no love for Microsoft. I do know that a fellow that I worked with was a salesman and manager for his company and due to personal circumstances had to take a special products position with his company. He used an Apple computer for desktop publishing to develop marketing and training materials for his company without ever once opening the manual. I was amazed at the way he could make that thing walk and talk. That is a great testament for any product.

[oldpotatoe]

How?

You are right, his public financials indicate he's been hoarding it.

Here we go....................................

[dekindy]

BTW, I've seen Steve Jobs RIP threads on about half a dozen forums I frequent - this is the ONLY one that's turned virulent and nasty. Might be worth having a glance in a mirror on that. A guy just died. He was human and flawed, but he wasn't Hitler or Bin Laden and the level of judgement of his character flaws before the body's even had a chance to go cold is a bit much. I don't spend nearly the time here I used to because cycling (and more so the obsession with bikes) has taken on a much smaller role in my life. But I still consider a lot of folks here online friends and I've met and ridden with many of you. But the way threads like this can turn nasty on a dime make this a much less appealing place...

-Ray

I don't believe in hero worship. If Pirates of Silicon Valley is halfway accurate, and Steve Wozniak and others that should know say it is, then let the discussion begin. Like everybody tells me, if you don't like it you don't have to read it.

[1happygirl]

Oh and a PS ....
the Apple I write this on has given me the world, literally, at my fingertips and brought me so much joy. The Serotta Forum to read, entertainment of music while I workout, books when I'm sick, games etc.

Just like a grade 'b' movie, it might not be Shakespeare but has brought so much pleasure to me and so many peeps. From Grandmothers to Grandchildren, we will never be the same.

Hopefully, like one commentator said, Apple will still have the philosophy that he shared. Hope it will go on and on like Disney.

[sg8357]

For those of us who have been around for a while.

Apple II Forever.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjlhFVTY50

I do hope Steve helps Sheldon update his website.

[rugbysecondrow]

I don't feel like getting into a fight while the body's still cooling, but it seems to me that he was an amazing visionary, a brilliant entrepreneur, an individual who enriched literally hundreds of millions of lives (not just with Mac but also Pixar), and yet he also was a ruthless businessman (show me a billionaire who isn't, right?), very hard on his employees (even if they admired him), and someone who engaged in highly questionable business practices (for example, the Chinese factories that fabricated the screens for iPhones and iPads apparently used known carcinogens in their production process). Which, from where I sit, just means that he was human.

That said, none of that interests me nearly as much as the outpouring of affection and sadness that I've seen this evening. And it strikes me that this emotion isn't about the loss of a business leader, a job creator, or even an innovator, but a cultural touchstone, someone whose products became a part of so many people's identities. If I had to draw an analogy, I would say that the response to his death reminds of when John Lennon or, at a smaller scale, David Foster Wallace or Jim Henson passed. All of them, including Jobs, were young enough that they were still producing brilliant work. All of them should have had years left. And all of them were cultural touchstones.

As for me, I'm sad to see him go -- and not just because I love my iPhone, my MacBooks, and the Toy Story movies -- and I hope that we learn in the coming days that his estate will, in some measure, help those less fortunate than he was (like Carnegie and Rockefeller and Stanford before him, all men who, it has to be said, left behind very complicated legacies). Most of all, though, I hope his loved ones find a way to shelter themselves from the public din surrounding his death so that they can mourn. They deserve some peace, I think.


Well said.

We all have faults, shortcomings, successes, greatness, achieved and squandered potential. etc etc etc. The passing of Steve Jobs is a loss, he was a man who was possibly all the good things noted and possbile all of the bad things noted. So? That just shows us that he was human, imperfect and mortal. Need we point out his shortcomings just to prove that which we already know, that he was mortal? What is more mortal than passing at the young age of 54?

[happycampyer]

I don't feel like getting into a fight <snip>very, very well said, ari.

Like the things he designed, he had his flaws no doubt, but like those things—or perhaps through those things—his contribution to the human experience has been, to borrow a phrase, "insanely great."

[mauerschau]

Bikes around 1:08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VisNJDd51zA

[Ray]

I don't believe in hero worship. If Pirates of Silicon Valley is halfway accurate, and Steve Wozniak and others that should know say it is, then let the discussion begin. Like everybody tells me, if you don't like it you don't have to read it.
I don't believe in hero worship either. But except in the case of a Hitler or Bin Laden type, I don't think the day's immediately after his death are the time to rip into what a dick he might have been. He got a lot of very important stuff done and had a positive impact on a lot of people. I suspect most people single-minded enough to DO that have to be real jerks in many ways (see Armstrong, Lance). And all of that is fair game at many times and in many contexts, but right after the guy dies after a long fight with cancer? I'm just talking basic humanity.

I didn't think much of Ronald Reagan in life, but I still felt a sense of sadness and appreciation for our common humanity when he died. Plenty of time to debate his good and bad points while he was in office and after he's been gone a while, but right after his death? I don't think so.

-Ray

[Nooch]

I don't believe in hero worship either. But except in the case of a Hitler or Bin Laden type, I don't think the day's immediately after his death are the time to rip into what a dick he might have been. He got a lot of very important stuff done and had a positive impact on a lot of people. I suspect most people single-minded enough to DO that have to be real jerks in many ways (see Armstrong, Lance). And all of that is fair game at many times and in many contexts, but right after the guy dies after a long fight with cancer? I'm just talking basic humanity.

I didn't think much of Ronald Reagan in life, but I still felt a sense of sadness and appreciation for our common humanity when he died. Plenty of time to debate his good and bad points while he was in office and after he's been gone a while, but right after his death? I don't think so.

-Ray

+1000, [/Thread]

Reflect on the mortality of it all, the fact that we are all human, and as such all flawed. Listen, Steve Jobs probably wasn't your friend, but he was someone who had a direct (indirect?) impact on many lives. Let him rest in peace, and pick apart his legacy in a few months.

It's like making a joke and then asking "Too Soon?" Yeah, it's too soon, just let him be for right now, appreciate that he's not suffering any longer, and regardless of how much money he had he bled just like all of us, and passed just as we all will.

[witcombusa]

All the good?

Sit at a red light waiting for it to change and watch the number of distracted drivers playing on their "smartphones".

How many have been killed already because of this "important innovation"?

I have nothing from his company and can't imagine that I will in the future. So from the buisness end of things, no loss to me. As to the loss of the man, I can't say, but I've heard more bad than good over the years....

Too soon? No time like the present!

Now back to your worship

[Chance]

He was clearly brilliant and a visionary... but, none of us knew him. Let's not be "offended" because some are not fanboys or supportive of his personal decisions and/or business practices. The last time I checked this was a forum where discussion took place and differing opinions were welcomed.
Welcomed? Not always. There are practical limits even within forum rules. It comes down to whether different opinion adds or contributes to forum's value.

[Ray]

All the good?

Sit at a red light waiting for it to change and watch the number of distracted drivers playing on their "smartphones".

How many have been killed already because of this "important innovation"?

Come on man. By that line of thinking we'd be WAAAAAAAY better off if nobody had ever invented roads or automobiles either. Or airplanes or probably bicycles.

There's a downside to everything, so maybe we never should have left the caves....

-Ray

[johnnymossville]

Every time I boot up my Mac I know there's a little bit, or maybe even more than a little bit, of Steve Jobs alive and well in there.

RIP and Seeya Steve.

[Fixed]

I
BTW, I've seen Steve Jobs RIP threads on about half a dozen forums I frequent - this is the ONLY one that's turned virulent and nasty. Might be worth having a glance in a mirror on that. A guy just died. He was human and flawed, but he wasn't Hitler or Bin Laden and the level of judgement of his character flaws before the body's even had a chance to go cold is a bit much. I don't spend nearly the time here I used to because cycling (and more so the obsession with bikes) has taken on a much smaller role in my life. But I still consider a lot of folks here online friends and I've met and ridden with many of you. But the way threads like this can turn nasty on a dime make this a much less appealing place...

-Ray
jealously is a sad thing
rip and thanks
cheers

[William]

I don't know the man.
I don't know his politics.
I don't know how he treated people.
I do know that a man has died, probably a slow painful death, and that is sad. May he R.I.P.

I do use his products and have for years. They have made small aspects of my life a bit easier and that is good. As far as smart phones and personal electronic devices, I take responsibility for my actions and use them appropriately. It's not the phones that kill people, it's the irresponsibility and impatience of the user that can make their use deadly. Not the man who created them.





William

[fiamme red]

...and yet he also was a ruthless businessman (show me a billionaire who isn't, right?), very hard on his employees (even if they admired him), and someone who engaged in highly questionable business practices (for example, the Chinese factories that fabricated the screens for iPhones and iPads apparently used known carcinogens in their production process). Which, from where I sit, just means that he was human.I see. To exploit your workers is just human.

I promise not to kill myself: Apple factory workers 'asked to sign pledge' (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/i-promise-not-to-kill-myself-apple-factory-workers-asked-to-sign-pledge-20100526-wddd.html)

Meet the workers dying to meet your iPad 2 demand (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/meet-the-workers-dying-to-meet-your-ipad-2-demand-20110509-1ef68.html)

[grateful]

You can't seriously blame the product, it is the people that make the decision to use them in dangerous/inopportune times.

All the good?

Sit at a red light waiting for it to change and watch the number of distracted drivers playing on their "smartphones".

How many have been killed already because of this "important innovation"?

I have nothing from his company and can't imagine that I will in the future. So from the buisness end of things, no loss to me. As to the loss of the man, I can't say, but I've heard more bad than good over the years....

Too soon? No time like the present!

Now back to your worship

[firerescuefin]

Welcomed? Not always. There are practical limits even within forum rules. It comes down to whether different opinion adds or contributes to forum's value.

Steve Jobs was/is a polarizing figure...yet is being eulogized worldwide like he was an altruist. I am not throwing stones, but am neither surprised nor offended that some have another opinion of the man....and it is not for me to criticize the timing of their opinions. We all have a life to live, decisions to make, and in the end stand tall...owning the good and the bad. SJ is no different, just lives on a much larger stage...Extrapolating on your post, no comment is worth making on this thread other than one that edifies SJ...To that, I disagree.

[William]

I see. To exploit your workers is just human.

I promise not to kill myself: Apple factory workers 'asked to sign pledge' (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/i-promise-not-to-kill-myself-apple-factory-workers-asked-to-sign-pledge-20100526-wddd.html)

Meet the workers dying to meet your iPad 2 demand (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/meet-the-workers-dying-to-meet-your-ipad-2-demand-20110509-1ef68.html)


I'm just going to point out here that if you buy almost anything coming from Chinese mfr's, you are supporting sub-standard working conditions, unsafe exposure to chemicals/pollutants, and exploitation of workers.



William

[forrestw]

Apparently you are as old school as I am. We appear to be in the minority.

Get the eff off your high horse already. You're hardly alone in this forum in having claim to old-schoolness. I've coded in everything from assembly to hex to C, Basic, Lisp, FORTRAN, Perl ... on platforms from Honeywell to DEC, Prime, Zilog, IBM and once they put BSD Unix inside, yes even Apple. I build my own frames of steel and silver solder and sometimes even do my own welding.

Your comparisons of Jobs to Gates, Rockerfeller and Carnegie are telling. While Jobs may be no paragon of business virtues, Carnegie paid Pinkerton's to brutalize his own employees; G and R were monopolists who took decades to be brought down by the Feds. Gates in particular proffered shoddy, poorly engineered products while undertaking all manner of underhanded practices to control the actions of his competitors (some of which were particularly aimed at Apple). Gates managed an empire that did more to hold back advancement in computing than it did to add to it.

(/flame)
I'll remember Steve Jobs as many here and elsewhere have said as a guy who was singularly successful in advancing technologies that served his customers well and in setting a high bar of design and user-experience for others to learn from and live up to. I'm saddened that he suffered from a difficult cancer for so many of his later years and will be sure to do my bit next year in the PMC to help fund cancer research.

[climbgdh]

RIP Mr Jobs.....

I normally REALLY like this place..... except when things get nasty ...... & especially when we're talking about the death of a fellow human being to cancer nonetheless..... sad really. I've had a work colleague die a miserable death to cancer @ 43 YO within the last few months. Another work colleague is battling pancreatic cancer now @ 52 YO. Not pleasant to see.

Comments like "Sit at a red light waiting for it to change and watch the number of distracted drivers playing on their "smartphones". How many have been killed already because of this "important innovation"? are just eff'n ridiculous.

Steve Jobs has nothing to do with the actions of the idiots on the road that choose to use their phones or any other device. Give me a break.......

[Chance]

Steve Jobs was/is a polarizing figure...yet is being eulogized worldwide like he was an altruist. I am not throwing stones, but am neither surprised nor offended that some have another opinion of the man....and it is not for me to criticize the timing of their opinions. We all have a life to live, decisions to make, and in the end stand tall...owning the good and the bad. SJ is no different, just lives on a much larger stage...Extrapolating on your post, no comment is worth making on this thread other than one that edifies SJ...To that, I disagree.
The reply was not specific to Steve Jobs but rather to your belief that differing opinions are welcomed. No need to extrapolate when it doesn’t apply. Simple facts confirm that differing opinions are often not welcomed. That was the only point.

In any case he lived a good although short life and one that accomplished much. Perhaps not a saint but who is. His passing is (should be) a sad event for all. RIP.

[MadRocketSci]

"by the definition I referenced" . . . and there is the rub . . .

First of all, the definition you quoted is not a definition of a "visionary" - the word is not even mentioned once in the Widipedia article ("Technology Adoption Lifecycle") you cite. Your citation "describes the adoption or acceptance of a new product or innovation" but not the visionary precursor.

Second, even if that article does somehow define a visionary, it defines one only in the world of technology, since that was the exclusive focus of your citation.

Even the "Diffusion of Innovations" theory (that is one of the main theories behind your citation . . . and the subject of a book I have read) does not address the full spectrum of human visionary history, only the world of material innovations.

I don't argue Jobs' impact, but he doesn't belong among the world's greatest visionaries, IMO. da Vinci (and many others throughout history) was a visionary far above & beyond Jobs in ways either much broader than, or exclusive or, technology.

Good morning.

As you pointed out, the particular article i sited about the TALC does not specifically link early adopters to visionaries. it was late, i was lazy, and just plopped the first wikilink to technology adoption life cycle that came up.

If you're still interested - the link between visionary and the TALC was made specifically by Geoffrey Moore in the book "Crossing the Chasm", which describes the process through which an innovation moves into the mainstream. The work starts with the ideas presented in "Diffusion of Innovations" and lays the claim that:

The most difficult step is making the transition between visionaries (early adopters) and pragmatists (early majority)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm

This is where Steve was, I claim, the best the world has ever seen. The early adopters/visionaries are the torch bearers of innovation into the mainstream.

Jobs didn't invent much stuff per se, but once he saw something, he was able to see its place in the world and society in a much clearer, expansive, and accurate way than the inventor/innovator.

Woz was the innovator of the pair - the classic garage tinkerer and creator.

I put da Vinci in this mold also, due to his work in aeronautics. But of course da Vince was also in many other bins - world class scientist for his work in human anatomy, and of course, his art.

I'm curious how you see da Vinci as a visionary. Freakily talented genius, yes, but one who saw the possibilities of the future in technology, art, science, politics, religion, whatever? Edumacate me if you desire. What is your definition of "visionary?"

p.s. that PC World list is a joke....seriously, Sergey/Larry at #2? #1 Robert Noyce? Steve Jobs doesn't really belong on a list with those people...completely different set of abilities. Neither does Bill Gates...

[tannhauser]

Get the eff off your high horse already. You're hardly alone in this forum in having claim to old-schoolness. I've coded in everything from assembly to hex to C, Basic, Lisp, FORTRAN, Perl ... on platforms from Honeywell to DEC, Prime, Zilog, IBM and once they put BSD Unix inside, yes even Apple. I build my own frames of steel and silver solder and sometimes even do my own welding.

Your comparisons of Jobs to Gates, Rockerfeller and Carnegie are telling. While Jobs may be no paragon of business virtues, Carnegie paid Pinkerton's to brutalize his own employees; G and R were monopolists who took decades to be brought down by the Feds. Gates in particular proffered shoddy, poorly engineered products while undertaking all manner of underhanded practices to control the actions of his competitors (some of which were particularly aimed at Apple). Gates managed an empire that did more to hold back advancement in computing than it did to add to it.

(/flame)
I'll remember Steve Jobs as many here and elsewhere have said as a guy who was singularly successful in advancing technologies that served his customers well and in setting a high bar of design and user-experience for others to learn from and live up to. I'm saddened that he suffered from a difficult cancer for so many of his later years and will be sure to do my bit next year in the PMC to help fund cancer research.

I guess you missed my point, being on your own high horse.

Two titans of industry decided to give money.
One, apparently, feels no need to publicize it if, in fact, he did or will give.


This is a discussion about philanthropy and how it's important to not deify anyone, as I see it.

[tannhauser]

The reply was not specific to Steve Jobs but rather to your belief that differing opinions are welcomed. No need to extrapolate when it doesn’t apply. Simple facts confirm that differing opinions are often not welcomed. That was the only point.

In any case he lived a good although short life and one that accomplished much. Perhaps not a saint but who is. His passing is (should be) a sad event for all. RIP.

Even though I don't agree with your earlier comment this one I certainly do. I used to be on the board but it did get like this a lot. As soon as the talk of carbon wheels is over topics like this reveal who a person really is.

We're not brothers in cycling arms; we're just people.

[tannhauser]

A guy just died. He was human and flawed, but he wasn't Hitler or Bin Laden and the level of judgement of his character flaws before the body's even had a chance to go cold is a bit much. I don't spend nearly the time here I used to because cycling (and more so the obsession with bikes) has taken on a much smaller role in my life. But I still consider a lot of folks here online friends and I've met and ridden with many of you. But the way threads like this can turn nasty on a dime make this a much less appealing place...

-Ray

It is ok to judge Jobs. It's not ok to do so at a funeral of a family member, for Jobs was extremely private and is being lionized in the press. How many, "Steve Jobs is a God" stories can one read before the proverbial elephant in the room is addressed?

This guy used the media to the advantage of his company; the media, and everyone, have a right to ask valid questions about the dispensation of his wealth.

Some guys here take this kind of discussion very personally for some odd reason.

[Climb01742]

a wise man once said, 'be kind whenever possible.







it's always possible.'

we're all human, we're all flawed.

[Ray]

How many, "Steve Jobs is a God" stories can one read before the proverbial elephant in the room is addressed?

Every room has its elephants. But the elephants are not invited to the funeral. For a public person, this sort of thing is the equivalent of a public funeral. This is EXACTLY the time to ignore the elephants. Maybe even the only time that one really SHOULD ignore them.

-Ray

[JMerring]

The media used the guy and his company to its advantage, too. While it would be nice to know that a really really rich person did 'good' by giving to charity, it isn't required and the dispensation of his wealth is none of our business.

Rip, Steve. You may or may not have been a "good human," but there's no doubt you were a great and legendary man. You made a positive contribution to humankind and will be missed.

[vjp]

We don't know if he "gave" in private do we? Why does it have to be in public?

"The Pharisees prayed in public to be righteous in mans eyes ... "

So many corporations use philanthropy as a marketing tool yet many of these same captains of industry wouldn't be kind to an individual person in need who is standing right next to them.

We don't know, and it is between Mr. Jobs and his maker.

Leave it alone.

It is ok to judge Jobs. It's not ok to do so at a funeral of a family member, for Jobs was extremely private and is being lionized in the press. How many, "Steve Jobs is a God" stories can one read before the proverbial elephant in the room is addressed?

This guy used the media to the advantage of his company; the media, and everyone, have a right to ask valid questions about the dispensation of his wealth.

Some guys here take this kind of discussion very personally for some odd reason.

[witcombusa]

The reply was not specific to Steve Jobs but rather to your belief that differing opinions are welcomed. No need to extrapolate when it doesn’t apply. Simple facts confirm that differing opinions are often not welcomed. That was the only point.

In any case he lived a good although short life and one that accomplished much. Perhaps not a saint but who is. His passing is (should be) a sad event for all. RIP.

I love these type of comments. It may well be true enough for yourself but amazing that you think all feel that way.

[tannhauser]

Every room has its elephants. But the elephants are not invited to the funeral. For a public person, this sort of thing is the equivalent of a public funeral. This is EXACTLY the time to ignore the elephants. Maybe even the only time that one really SHOULD ignore them.

-Ray

Perhaps.

As I mentioned earlier, stories of Jobs' philanthropy have popped up everywhere since his most recent announcement of departing Apple. No one said anything when his obit was being written even though he was alive.
That I found reprehensible.

The writing has been on the wall for so long, his spirit has left his body. I can respect the feelings of those who viewed him as family, but at the same time no one will want to talk about him in a few months time.

I can say I'm saddened by his death, but the media blitz is blind to the full picture of the man. Of course he's flawed, that's why he was interesting.

[tannhauser]

The media used the guy and his company to its advantage, too. While it would be nice to know that a really really rich person did 'good' by giving to charity, it isn't required and the dispensation of his wealth is none of our business.


It's certainly is my business. It's anyone's business who would like to know. It informs which charities are worth looking at from my standpoint. It gives a fuller picture of this very private man; believe me the bio pics and book deals are in full swing right now. This kind of stuff will come out.

[rugbysecondrow]

It is ok to judge Jobs. It's not ok to do so at a funeral of a family member, for Jobs was extremely private and is being lionized in the press. How many, "Steve Jobs is a God" stories can one read before the proverbial elephant in the room is addressed?

This guy used the media to the advantage of his company; the media, and everyone, have a right to ask valid questions about the dispensation of his wealth.

Some guys here take this kind of discussion very personally for some odd reason.

It is not personal, just manners.

Thread Title was: OT: R.I.P. Steve Jobs


Thread Title was not: OT: Tell me why you think Steve Jobs is a douche

Start your own thread if you like, but if folks want to expound on positive highlights of the mans life in an RIP thread, let it be cathartic for them and let them do so. Not sure why folks feel the need to argue about it. It is just a dick move.

[tannhauser]

We don't know if he "gave" in private do we? Why does it have to be in public?

"The Pharisees prayed in public to be righteous in mans eyes ... "

So many corporations use philanthropy as a marketing tool yet many of these same captains of industry wouldn't be kind to an individual person in need who is standing right next to them.

We don't know, and it is between Mr. Jobs and his maker.

Leave it alone.

If you had read my earlier links, you'd see that no one really knows.

Why should I leave it alone - it's a discussion. You can either contribute or not read the thread.

[tannhauser]

It is not personal, just manners.

Thread Title was: OT: R.I.P. Steve Jobs


Thread Title was not: OT: Tell me why you think Steve Jobs is a douche

Start your own thread if you like, but if folks want to expound on positive highlights of the mans life, let it be cathartic for them and let them do so.



Too late for that, isn't it.
If I had the cathartic guys would've come over and got agro on me anyway.

Poor manners? Hardly. No one in the room knew the guy.

[DWebb]

A more subtle version of what has already been posted.

[Ahneida Ride]

He thought outa the box. I have to respect the guy,

God Bless Steve ....

[JMerring]

Too late for that, isn't it.
If I had the cathartic guys would've come over and got agro on me anyway.

Poor manners? Hardly. No one in the room knew the guy.

the outpouring of emotion from across the globe would tend to suggest that, notwithstanding the fact that millions didn't actually know him, he and what he created nonetheless had a positive and meaningful impact on peoples' lives.

yes, as a general matter, peeing on the dead is poor manners. there are exceptions, but steve jobs isn't one of them.

i didn't want to jump into this thread and am now leaving.

[tannhauser]

the outpouring of emotion from across the globe would tend to suggest that, notwithstanding the fact that millions didn't actually know him, he and what he created nonetheless had a positive and meaningful impact on peoples' lives.

yes, as a general matter, peeing on the dead is poor manners. there are exceptions, but steve jobs isn't one of them.

i didn't want to jump into this thread and am now leaving.

If you call questioning his philanthropy peeing on his dead body, that's a huge stretch.

Goodbye.

[MadRocketSci]

why has everyone been feeding the troll?

[tannhauser]

why has everyone been feeding the troll?

If by troll you mean someone who has brought out some others who have opinions that are similar to mine and not with most, I fit that description.

It's a simple moniker to hang on someone. Feel free to use it on anyone who doesn't agree with you.

[93legendti]

We don't know if he "gave" in private do we? Why does it have to be in public?

"The Pharisees prayed in public to be righteous in mans eyes ... "

So many corporations use philanthropy as a marketing tool yet many of these same captains of industry wouldn't be kind to an individual person in need who is standing right next to them.

We don't know, and it is between Mr. Jobs and his maker.

Leave it alone.
Very true. The Bible states that the best form of charity is that which is given anonymously.

[CunegoFan]

If by troll you mean someone who has brought out some others who have opinions that are similar to mine and not with most, I fit that description.

It's a simple moniker to hang on someone. Feel free to use it on anyone who doesn't agree with you.
I think by troll he means someone who is using a thread about lamenting the death of someone many admired to wage a personal crusade about how much he thinks other people should give to charity, and it is being done to the degree that it now dominates the thread with what most consider crap that is inappropriate at this time.

Why don't you create another thread to tell people how to spend their money?

[tuxbailey]

I think by troll he means someone who is using a thread about lamenting the death of someone many admired to wage a personal crusade about how much he thinks other people should give to charity.

+1

[tannhauser]

I think by troll he means someone who is using a thread about lamenting the death of someone many admired to wage a personal crusade about how much he thinks other people should give to charity.

That's reductionist in a bad way, meaning not accurate at all. Not other people, Steve Jobs specifically.

Yes, there is a difference.

Can't play nice, can you?

[JMerring]

If by troll you mean someone who has brought out some others who have opinions that are similar to mine and not with most, I fit that description.

It's a simple moniker to hang on someone. Feel free to use it on anyone who doesn't agree with you.

troll = is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted". While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, mass media uses troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[5][6]

these are examples of troll:
[if it turns out he wasn't a philantrhopist] "he will epitomize the heartless tech geek"

"BTW as an aside many of his employees hated him, but deified him also. He was booted once as Apple CEO for being belligerent with them. [FACTUALLY INCORRECT, BY THE WAY]] The press is going gaga over him now. In some sense if the fandom is repeated enough it becomes truth. The truth is complicated."

"The pure, heartless entrepeneur seems to be the person a lot of people aspire to these days. So sad."

"The writing has been on the wall for so long, his spirit has left his body" [[APPARENTLY ENOUGH SPIRIT WAS LEFT FOR THE IPAD]]


btw, i'm both a 'libral' and someone who has previously expressed anti-apple sentiment here and elsewhere (tho i've since come around - on the apple side of things, at least :)), so aspersions such as 'heartless wench' and 'fanboy' don't apply.

[DWebb]

(still feeding the troll)

[DWebb]

(the only way to kill a troll is by starvation)

[Iowegian]

Sad news. He was a classy guy to the end and we're all a bit poorer for losing him. RIP

[CunegoFan]

Your comparisons of Jobs to Gates, Rockerfeller and Carnegie are telling. While Jobs may be no paragon of business virtues, Carnegie paid Pinkerton's to brutalize his own employees; G and R were monopolists who took decades to be brought down by the Feds. Gates in particular proffered shoddy, poorly engineered products while undertaking all manner of underhanded practices to control the actions of his competitors (some of which were particularly aimed at Apple). Gates managed an empire that did more to hold back advancement in computing than it did to add to it.

Amen.

I like the way the Jobs summed up Microsoft and its products:

"The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste, they have absolutely no taste, and what that means is - I don't mean that in a small way I mean that in a big way. In the sense that they they don't think of original ideas and they don't bring much culture into their product ehm and you say why is that important - well you know proportionally spaced fonts come from type setting and beautiful books, that's where one gets the idea - if it weren't for the Mac they would never have that in their products and ehm so I guess I am saddened, not by Microsoft's success - I have no problem with their success, they've earned their success for the most part. I have a problem with the fact that they just make really third rate products."

Jobs said this in various ways over the years. I think I even remember a line in Pirates of Silicon Valley where the charge is made. It is interesting that taste is what ultimately made Apple's products so sought after and lifted its market cap above MSFT while Microsoft was left floundering in a morass of shoddy me-too-ism.

[tannhauser]

Amen.

I like the way the Jobs summed up Microsoft and its products:

"The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste, they have absolutely no taste, and what that means is - I don't mean that in a small way I mean that in a big way. In the sense that they they don't think of original ideas and they don't bring much culture into their product ehm and you say why is that important - well you know proportionally spaced fonts come from type setting and beautiful books, that's where one gets the idea - if it weren't for the Mac they would never have that in their products and ehm so I guess I am saddened, not by Microsoft's success - I have no problem with their success, they've earned their success for the most part. I have a problem with the fact that they just make really third rate products."

Jobs said this in various ways over the years. I think I even remember a line in Pirates of Silicon Valley where the charge is made. It is interesting that taste is what ultimately made Apple's products so sought after and lifted its market cap above MSFT while Microsoft was left floundering in a morass of shoddy me-too-ism.

I completely agree with this.

[MadRocketSci]

Gates was a better businessman...Jobs the better designer...both were visionaries, though I give the advantage to Jobs there.

[false_Aest]

Sad that the dude died:

But Fred Shuttlesworth died too. How much coverage has he gotten?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Shuttlesworth

[Fixed]

thanks for the lesson on f. s. sorry he died glad he lived
cheers

[tannhauser]

thanks for the lesson on f. s. sorry he died glad he lived
cheers

+1 Embarassed to say I didn't know who he was.

[slowgoing]

I think by troll he means someone who is using a thread about lamenting the death of someone many admired to wage a personal crusade about how much he thinks other people should give to charity, and it is being done to the degree that it now dominates the thread with what most consider crap that is inappropriate at this time.

Why don't you create another thread to tell people how to spend their money?

+2

[jasond]

I completely agree with this.

I think you should get back to work, take a ride on your bike, or just go and do something else.

27 out of your 54 total posts have been made in this one thread. All in less than 17 hours.

[rugbysecondrow]

Sad that the dude died:

But Fred Shuttlesworth died too. How much coverage has he gotten?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Shuttlesworth


I started a new thread so you could expound on the life of Mr. Shuttlesworth.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1010900#post1010900

[tannhauser]

I think you should get back to work or take a ride on your bike.

26 out of you 53 total posts have been made in this one thread. All in less than 17 hours.

It's interesting, what can I say.

Rode 2.5 hrs. in the cold rain today - sweet!

[slowgoing]

Don't forget the ignore list. Works great. Go to person's profile page to find ignore button.

[tannhauser]

Don't forget the ignore list. Works great. Go to person's profile page to find ignore button.

Thanks for the tip.

[JMerring]

/\/\/\ i'm not sure it was posted for your benefit ;)

[tannhauser]

/\/\/\ i'm not sure it was posted for your benefit ;)

Ya think I didn't know that

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

"You can't seriously blame the product, it is the people that make the decision"

+1 effing trillion!!!!

[norcalbiker]

Very sad indeed.

I am not a big Apple fan (I do have Iphone though)

Still very sad to lose a guy as creative as he is.

RIP

[rice rocket]

What did Steve Jobs see when his life flashed before his eyes?








Nothing, it's not supported.

[paulh]

Q:Why didn't the Challenger astronauts take a shower that morning.

A:They figured they'd wash up on shore anyways.

[rice rocket]

http://i.imgur.com/0Vv1j.jpg

[DWebb]

The Onion's take on Jobs passing is here. (http://origin.theonion.com/section/apple/)

Pretty funny.

David

[Germany_chris]

in all of this lets not forget he was Dad, Spouse, and Son..like most of us

all of those people had to say good bye far too soon.

[Ahneida Ride]

Maybe time to close this thread ...

[Pete Serotta]

What happened to manners and respect? Chill please or leave. Thanks