new wheelset... clincher or tubs?

[pavel]

I really dont want to spark a clincher vs tubs debate, but I would like some input on my next wheel build.

I am trying to decide between using clinchers (velocity a23 24/28h) or tubular (32h). The hubs will be white industries.

The tubies are 385g each, the a23s are 426. The weight saving in in the tubies is obviously offsett by the higher spoke count. From a _very_ rudimentary calculation (not taking into account spoke length, and basically just going by using sapim cx-ray spokes and nipples for both) it actually looks like the clincher set would come in at a lower weight.


hubs: 325g

Tubies: 770g

Clinchers: 852g

CX-ray spokes and nipples, assuming 5.5g/spoke (source:
Sapim CX-Ray 264 mm 144 g 32 pcs.

Sapim Polyax Brass nipples 2.0 mm/14G 12 mm90 g 100 pcs., nickel plated)

24/28 = 234g

32/32 = 352g.


Clincher weight: 1411
Tubies weight: 1447.

Can this be true? The big unknown here is the spoke / nipple weight, but I just used an assumption to see the difference between the two sets.


Thoughts? Corrections? will tires make enough of a difference to justify this?

Even if I do end up with a wheelset that is 100grams lighter because of using tubular tires, will I regret the decision because of the inconvenience of repairs/flats/installations?

Help a tubie newbie!

[oldguy00]

Well it seems your primary concern is the weight...
I can tell you that 100 grams give or take, you aren't going to notice at all while riding.
So really, you need to decide whether you want clinchers or tubulars, for all the reasons -other- than the weight.

[ultraman6970]

+1 with oldguy... 100 grams is not a big deal, besides you can get them off your body going to take a good dump before going riding :D


As for the flats with tubulars is a thing of luck too. I use tubulars because back in the day the riding was way better than clinchers, now a days clinchers ride pretty similar to tubulars but i still prefer them. But in my case I'm using them since i was 13 y/o so it comes natural the use of them.

Whatever u use just pick the thing u are more comfortable with i guess

Good luck.

[eddief]

I just bought a set of A23 24/28 rims, C4 hubs, Sapim Laser Spokes, alloy nipped wheels. Came in right at 1500 grams the set without skews. They go good and I think with wider tires 25c they may be better descenders than narrower ones, but not sure yet I can feel that. But light is good too.

Never done tubies, and can't imagine why I would.

[pavel]

ooops - in my haste I accidentally posted in classified instead of general.


Sorry, guys.... mods, feel free to move or close.

[oldpotatoe]

I really dont want to spark a clincher vs tubs debate, but I would like some input on my next wheel build.

I am trying to decide between using clinchers (velocity a23 24/28h) or tubular (32h). The hubs will be white industries.

The tubies are 385g each, the a23s are 426. The weight saving in in the tubies is obviously offsett by the higher spoke count. From a _very_ rudimentary calculation (not taking into account spoke length, and basically just going by using sapim cx-ray spokes and nipples for both) it actually looks like the clincher set would come in at a lower weight.


hubs: 325g

Tubies: 770g

Clinchers: 852g

CX-ray spokes and nipples, assuming 5.5g/spoke (source:
Sapim CX-Ray 264 mm 144 g 32 pcs.

Sapim Polyax Brass nipples 2.0 mm/14G 12 mm90 g 100 pcs., nickel plated)

24/28 = 234g

32/32 = 352g.


Clincher weight: 1411
Tubies weight: 1447.

Can this be true? The big unknown here is the spoke / nipple weight, but I just used an assumption to see the difference between the two sets.


Thoughts? Corrections? will tires make enough of a difference to justify this?

Even if I do end up with a wheelset that is 100grams lighter because of using tubular tires, will I regret the decision because of the inconvenience of repairs/flats/installations?

Help a tubie newbie!

Weight savings or weight 'disadvantages' is not the reason to use tubulars.

Ride comfort, safety, cornering, all reasons for that great tubular ride. Learn to glue them, it's really easy, not a multi day exercise, put some stan's or cafee-latex and flats on a system that doesn't get many flats(no pinch flats) are essentially non existent.

But if ya want to save those 100 grams or so...which you won't notice on your 85,000 or so gram 'package of rider and bicycle and stuff.

Been using tubulars for over 25 years, can't imagine using clinchers, don't see why. Besides, clinchers are for nancys.

[cmg]

the A23 clincher will be heavier at the rim than the tubies. The majority of the weight difference will be at the rim and that is without tire selection thrown in the mix. If you go with a 25mm clincher tire you'll be at around 250g per tire plus inner tube 70g plus rim strip 17g whereas the tubie would be 260g total (continental sprinter) per tire so there would more of a weight difference at the rim. i bring this up because i believe additional weight at the rim is evil. rotating mass and all.

[CPP]

[QUOTE=oldpotatoe

Been using tubulars for over 25 years, can't imagine using clinchers, don't see why.[/QUOTE]

My sentiments exactly. (I'm an old also)

[Aaron O]

Weight savings or weight 'disadvantages' is not the reason to use tubulars.

Ride comfort, safety, cornering, all reasons for that great tubular ride. Learn to glue them, it's really easy, not a multi day exercise, put some stan's or cafee-latex and flats on a system that doesn't get many flats(no pinch flats) are essentially non existent.

But if ya want to save those 100 grams or so...which you won't notice on your 85,000 or so gram 'package of rider and bicycle and stuff.

Been using tubulars for over 25 years, can't imagine using clinchers, don't see why. Besides, clinchers are for nancys.

+1...I never thought I'd be promoting tubulars, but I'm really glad I have a couple of bikes in the stable that have them. I'd never use them for a primary rider...or commuter...but having the option is fantastic. They almost feel like they float across the road.

[Tommasini53]

Well it seems your primary concern is the weight...
I can tell you that 100 grams give or take, you aren't going to notice at all while riding.
So really, you need to decide whether you want clinchers or tubulars, for all the reasons -other- than the weight.

+1 with the oldguy00, Both types of tires have pluses and minuses, and you will hear all of those with this posting. and both builds look very nice.

I used both tubular and clinchers for many years. Nothing beats the ride quality of tubulars so you have to weigh in you own needs with all this advice.

I recently changed my clinchers to Tubeless and was sold on the first ride. I'd compare Tubeless clinchers to a mid-quality tubular tire. that's my 2-cents...good luck on the decision.

[crossjunkee]

Tubulars, owned them, I get it, they ride nice. But who really wants to carry an extra tire with glue along with them? That was the pain in the butt for me. I grumble about carrying a small tube. If it's a race set, then go tubies, for everyday riding, clinchers.

[Ralph]

I rode tubulers for more than 30 years. A few years ago switched to clinchers. Glad I did. I don't race.

Never minded the gluing. In case of flat, Allways thought it was easier to slap on a used tubular in a few seconds than put a tube in a clincher. Still think so. Never really minded carrying a spare tubular in an old sock under seat with inflator, held on with old toe strap. LIked everything about a tubular except:

I just didn't like buying a new expensive tire every time I got a flat. Never was much good at repairing tubulars. Much prefer a $5-6 clincher tube. Also don't like riding cheap tubulars. Also think hi end clinchers are better quality and run straighter than good tubulars. Don't see much of a weight or ride difference anymore either. If you are a racer, you probably need a set of hi end tubular race wheels and tires.

So take your pick. Neither will hold you back. Don't be afraid of glue. Get an old rim to practice on, and to stretch new tires over.

[marle]

Get both. I find that it takes me a week or so to mount a replacement tubular tire - it's a weekend job. I ride my other bikes that don't need repair. But if you only have one bike you could be be riding the clincher until you get around to the job.

[oldguy00]

Get both. I find that it takes me a week or so to mount a replacement tubular tire - it's a weekend job. I ride my other bikes that don't need repair. But if you only have one bike you could be be riding the clincher until you get around to the job.

A week to mount/replace a tubular? What the hell are you doing??
I put two layers of glue on (10 minutes apart), stretch the tire on, inflate, leave overnight.
On the road, any old (or new) tubular stretched onto the wheel will get you through your ride no problem. People seem to have this idea that a tubular without 17 layers of glue on it are going to just spontaneously fly off the rim... :crap:

[ultraman6970]

1 week???? or you are doing something really wrong, or you are super lazy or the guy from u got instructions how to this was in dope and worse u were listening to him.

Change this things is super fast, 5 mins in putting the glue, 30 secs streching the tubby a little bit, 5 more minutes in mounting them, 30 secs in putting air and 30 mins to dry and yo uare ready go and i'm being generous with the time because take way less than that when u know what are u doing.



Get both. I find that it takes me a week or so to mount a replacement tubular tire - it's a weekend job. I ride my other bikes that don't need repair. But if you only have one bike you could be be riding the clincher until you get around to the job.

[Gummee]

Back when there were more tubular riders than clincher riders, having more flats than you brought extra tires (IOW 2 flats!) was a non-issue. You just borrowed a spare from a buddy and rode it home.

Nowadays?

I'll train on clinchers. I *know* I have N flats available (the # of patches or CO2 cartridges whichever's less) before I have to do the dreaded 'call of shame.'

I still love the way tubulars ride and am in the process of figgering out a hubset for a 28h set of Escapes I've been sitting on for years.

M

[Dorman]

Which ever way you go you could save 50ish more grams by using alloy nipples if weight is a big concern to you. Figure brass is about 1 gram each vs. alloy at .1 gram each. Your CX-Rays will most likely come in a little under 5 grams each and I believe the A23 rims have been running a little higher than their advertised weight. Rumor has them closer to 450g.

[pavel]

Thanks for the tips everyone -

This wont be on a daily rider, and I do have everyday riding clinchers, so replacement is not really an issue unless I am alone, 25 miles away from civilization with no cell signal.

As far the alloy vs brass recommendation - In my understanding, its significantly safer to use brass rather than aluminum on aluminum, which may fuse.


Also thanks for reminding me about rotational weight, that's definitely more important than a few spokes and nipples.

This probably wont be done for months, but i'll dig up the thread when I have it ready.

[oldpotatoe]

Which ever way you go you could save 50ish more grams by using alloy nipples if weight is a big concern to you. Figure brass is about 1 gram each vs. alloy at .1 gram each. Your CX-Rays will most likely come in a little under 5 grams each and I believe the A23 rims have been running a little higher than their advertised weight. Rumor has them closer to 450g.

I'll weigh a brass nipp but I don't think they are 1 gram each for brass. BUT regardless, aluminum nipps on a non eyeleted rim is not a good idea, IMHO.

I see no eyelet rims with ALU nipps with failing/cut nipps all the time. My normal solution is brass nipps all around, and viola, the wheel stays healthy.

[Gummee]

I'll weigh a brass nipp but I don't think they are 1 gram each for brass. BUT regardless, aluminum nipps on a non eyeleted rim is not a good idea, IMHO.IME neither are AL nipples on the drive side in the rear.

YMMV

M

[Dorman]

Well, I just weight 32 brass DT 14 gauge 12mm nips and they were 32 grams. 32 alloy DT 14 gauge 12mm nips were 10 grams, so I the alloy are actually .3125g each vs. .1g. I wouldn't use alloy nipples on a non-eyeletted winter beater that is going to see a lot of salt, but otherwise I've never had a problem. Seeing as how the op said it wasn't for a daily driver this shouldn't be the case. Alloy on drive side? Guess it depends on a lot of factors including weight, strength and spoke count. I've once again never had an issue.

Cheers,

Chris