huge "lawyer tabs" on serotta fork

[jabbahop]

I have a 5 year old Ottrott and a 2011 Ready custom HSG and it seems like the tabs on the front fork for the HSG are significantly deeper than those on my Ottrott. Has anyone else noticed it?

It takes a full 4 revolutions of the quick release to remove the front wheel on the HSG vs less than one on the Ottrott.

Anyone know why so large?

[Ahneida Ride]

Litigious Society.

[CPP]

Get a bigger file!

[ergott]

My F2 with ti dropouts never had tabs. I should sue them.

[dekindy]

My Serotta F3 fork has no lawyer tabs, 2007 model vintage. I am fairly certain that my 2006 vintage Fierte with a Kestral fork did not have them either. It would be a real pain to deal with as I take the front wheel off to transport my bike every time I ride. Recently I helped a lady change a front flat and was very annoyed when I had to deal with those darn things.

[Ken Robb]

I think I remember reading that the law was and may still be that lawyer lips were required on the forks of complete bicycles when sold but not required on forks sold as separate components. If so, I surmise that a person sophisticated enough to be assembling his own bike would know how to use a quick release skewer.

[avalonracing]

It would be a real pain to deal with as I take the front wheel off to transport my bike every time I ride.

Look at it as your upper-body workout.

[gone]

I think I remember reading that the law was and may still be that lawyer lips were required on the forks of complete bicycles when sold but not required on forks sold as separate components.
I don't know whether it's the law or not but I've purchased an F3 and an Enve as separate components in the last 12 months and both had lawyer tabs. I suspect the cost of building with/without depending on whether it's a separate component or going on a bike (in the case of Serotta) would be prohibitive and more of a hassle than it's worth.

[witcombusa]

It is an easily fixed problem....

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . crashing and breaking my neck because my front skewer was not tight, I see the need for lawyer tabs even with experienced cyclists. We all forget sooner or later. If my F1 fork had lawyer tabs I would not have crashed.

If I had a race bike, then yeah, I'd file them off. Otherwise leave them on, take a few more seconds to mount or remove the wheel--and maybe save your own life.

BBD

[avalonracing]

After doing LOTS of races on bikes with and without lawyer tabs I can honestly say that I, nor anyone I ever saw, ever won or lost a race because of lawyer tabs.

[JMerring]

my reynolds ouzo pro circa 2006 has such small lawyer tabs that i have never once even so much as thought to think they're a pita. could be the old school record skewers or could be that they're just not that big.

[witcombusa]

. . . crashing and breaking my neck because my front skewer was not tight, I see the need for lawyer tabs even with experienced cyclists. We all forget sooner or later. If my F1 fork had lawyer tabs I would not have crashed.

If I had a race bike, then yeah, I'd file them off. Otherwise leave them on, take a few more seconds to mount or remove the wheel--and maybe save your own life.

BBD

Or not...

[oliver1850]

. . . crashing and breaking my neck because my front skewer was not tight, I see the need for lawyer tabs even with experienced cyclists. We all forget sooner or later. If my F1 fork had lawyer tabs I would not have crashed.

If I had a race bike, then yeah, I'd file them off. Otherwise leave them on, take a few more seconds to mount or remove the wheel--and maybe save your own life.

BBD


Your incident was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. I think of the pic you posted nearly every time I look down at the front skewer.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=77938

[fogrider]

first, we all need to pay attention and make sure all our equipment is adjusted correctly. I think intentionally installing quick releases loose is careless...I mean it an easy flip to tighten and release purposely putting them in the closed position loose is miss using them. use them correctly and you don't need lawyer tabs. I regularly put my bike in my trunk and take both wheels off. no roof rack means no one can tell that I have an expensive bike to steal, no worries about rain, bugs, etc. one hand on the bike, one hand on quick release, flip and pull the bike and then put it in the trunk. and to install, put bike on wheel and flip and ready to go. not put wheel on bike, bend down and with two hands spin, flip, oh not tight enough, loosen spin some more, too tight, flip spin back, flip. I file all my forks.

[DRietz]

Let's just say this - if you are competent with your quick release operation abilities, and feel the need to file off the lawyer tabs, you can. It won't affect the structure of the fork, even on forks with carbon dropouts (evidenced to me by a certain ENVE engineer's filed fork tabs).

If you are paranoid, aren't racing, or aren't bothered by the not-so-quick release operation accompanied with lawyer tabs, then don't bother.

It's really that simple.

I file my tabs, as I do race and I HAVE lost a race due to a wheel change fumbled by the lawyer tabs. I was the other man in a two man break, got a flat, pulled over and installed the new wheel as fast as I could. Looked up and the other kid was nearly a quarter mile down the road with half a mile to go.

At least second is better than third.

[bzbvh5]

Litigious Society.
Is that why they are called lawyer tabs?

[Chad Engle]

4 full revolutions just to get the wheel out? Who has that kind of time...

[TAW]

I don't like them, and file them whenever I can. However there are certain bike companies (Specialized for example) that will void your warranty if you file them.

[Ralph]

Back in the 70's, as I recall (before "lawyer tabs"), I decided to do a bike ride with a group over in Daytona Bch, FL. I'll never forget that ride. While in a pace line, one of the riders front wheel pops out, he goes down immediately, and is run over by several cars, and does not survive. I remember seeing him rolling over and over under several cars. Not a pretty sight.

How did that happen? Obviously rider error when putting his bike together for the ride. Could a freak accident like that happen to one of us? You decide. But I tolerate and leave my "lawyer tabs" on.

[jabbahop]

It is my race bike so am more sensitive. Also I live on an unridable (steep, gravel) driveway so end up having to remove my wheel on both ends of a ride. I tried shortening them but the combination of the size and the fact they are Ti, make it more work than I thought even with a dremel.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Could a freak accident like that happen to one of us?

It happened to ME. It's no different than all those poor guys who hve driven into their garages with the bike on the roof. Sooner or later you WILL forget.

It's a shame they've gotten that name "lawyer tabs" because it simply misrepresents the reason they are there and contributes to bad stereotypes for lawyers all at the same time.

If you want to file them off, well, go ahead . . . and skip that sign you have hanging from the inside of your garage door that flops down every time it opens and says "Got bike?" . . . You'll never forget you have the bike on the roof, right?

Oh, and those silly helmets? Naah, don't need 'em. They're just there to limit liability. I'll NEVER crash . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

[Mike748]

None of my road bikes came with lips. Without them, I never have to readjust my skewer, so its either open or closed. Pretty easy to tell. I can't imagine how/why it would be in closed and loose. But I still check now and then.

I've kept them on my wife & daughter's bike because they are likely to be beyond my control and stuff happens and people mess with other people's stuff.

One thing I like about lips is they keep the fork from walking out of my Thule roof rack mounts. And they are good insurance on my disc brake MTB where I have had skewers loosen themselves courtesy the brake.

[Matt-H]

Last week on a very rocky and fast trail descent, my friend's front skewer came loose. I don't know why, don't really care. I do know it would've been bad if he didn't have those tabs. Everyone's got the right to do what they want, but I'll keep mine on all of my bikes.

[Ahneida Ride]

Suppose you are company X ..

You get hauled into court cause someone forgot to check their skewers.

In front of you is a Jury and a very injured person.

Guess what will happen.

Guess what you will do in the future.

----------------------

Recently I went riding with friend of a friend. I just happened to check
their skewers. They were as loose as a goose. Thank God in this case
for lawyers lips.

-----------------------

In a race, I can fully understand why one would not appreciate them.
But for normal riding?

----------------
Finally .... how many people riding Sergio Walmarto specials check
their skewers ?

How many of us do ?????

[thinpin]

I dont see how they can help. A loose, wobbling wheel on the front will end in disaster lips or no lips.

[rustychisel]

I dont see how they can help. A loose, wobbling wheel on the front will end in disaster lips or no lips.


not true. A wobbling wheel is a bad thing, to be sure, but in most cases it will give time time react, slow down, stop and look for a problem. At least the wheel will not eject from the forks cleanly, cause if that happens you have no chance.

Having said that, I hate the things and file them off.

[19wisconsin64]

i ride fixed gear bikes. they bolt the axles to the frame. wheels stay put. no problem.

so i rode my first "road race" a week ago, on sort of a "rough" course. it was on an old abandoned airfield. my bike was a road bike with all the extra parts..."brakes" and "gears", etc.

on the way home i heard some loud noises going over bumps. it seems like the front skewer came loose, even though tightly wrenched down.

those lawyer tabs saved my ass for sure during the race, and i've never once had a skewer come undone at any other time in my life.

used to hate them, now think they are a good idea.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . before every ride. I learned the hard way.

BBD

Suppose you are company X ..

You get hauled into court cause someone forgot to check their skewers.

In front of you is a Jury and a very injured person.

Guess what will happen.

Guess what you will do in the future.

----------------------

Recently I went riding with friend of a friend. I just happened to check
their skewers. They were as loose as a goose. Thank God in this case
for lawyers lips.

-----------------------

In a race, I can fully understand why one would not appreciate them.
But for normal riding?

----------------
Finally .... how many people riding Sergio Walmarto specials check
their skewers ?

How many of us do ?????

[bobswire]

What gets me is some guys who wouldn't know a wrench from a corkscrew will grab a hand grinder and grind away the tabs (and ruin the drop out) because it is the thing racers "do". Hey while you're at it get a tat and don't forget nose ring it's what the "cool" guys are doing.

[Nooch]

Hey while you're at it get a tat and don't forget nose ring it's what the "cool" guys are doing.

Nothing wrong with tattoos. :fight:

Nor do I mind lawyer lips. the ones on my cross fork are small to non-existant, and I always get worried when the bikes on the roof...

[sg8357]

Those skewers that vibrated loose, were they Shimano or Brand X open cam ?

[AngryScientist]

i actually like the lawyer lips, as i often put my bike on the fork mounted roof rack. in this case the tabs give me a little extra security that my bike is safe from the fork pulling out at 70mph

[Nooch]

i actually like the lawyer lips, as i often put my bike on the fork mounted roof rack. in this case the tabs give me a little extra security that my bike is safe from the fork pulling out at 70mph

+1, except add the occasional bursts to 80-90 to pass...

I pulled 90 for a good 2-3 mile stretch on my way to philly last year, both mine and my wife's bikes on the roof, and felt comfortable the whole way. Don't think I would have felt that good without the tabs.. I also crank my racks down pretty hard and lock them to make sure they don't come undone, so..

[AngryScientist]

+1, except add the occasional bursts to 80-90 to pass...



definitely. i've driven thousands of miles with my bike on the roof racks, and they always feel super secure.

[BumbleBeeDave]

definitely. i've driven thousands of miles with my bike on the roof racks, and they always feel super secure.

. . . with "Garage Door Angst?" :rolleyes:

BBD

[AngryScientist]

. . . with "Garage Door Angst?" :rolleyes:

BBD

by having my garage so full of crap that there is no way my car fits into it anymore :D

[happycampyer]

What i REALLY care about is the extra weight that the huge "lawyer tabs" on my Serotta forks add to my bikes.

[Ahneida Ride]

because it is the thing racers "do".


Normal every dad to day riding is NOT racing and it should be treated
as such.

I don't have a chase car behind me if I run into problems.
Thus my bike is heavier then others, cause I ride with stuff I
may need in a breakdown.

2 water bottles .
Dinotte front and tail lights
Tool kit
Rain jacket
Rain cover for Brooks Saddle
Glasses
Wallet
Car keys
C02 inflation + spare cartage
Frame Pump
spare tube + patch kit
small rag
rosary




Why do we always integrate riding/training with racing?
Are they not two separate operations ?
Don't they necessitate different equipment ?

[Ahneida Ride]

by having my garage so full of crap that there is no way my car fits into it anymore :D

and that is the ONLY way that works !!!!

[Keith A]

I have a 5 year old Ottrott and a 2011 Ready custom HSG and it seems like the tabs on the front fork for the HSG are significantly deeper than those on my Ottrott. Has anyone else noticed it?

It takes a full 4 revolutions of the quick release to remove the front wheel on the HSG vs less than one on the Ottrott.

Anyone know why so large?Back to the OP's question, I have an F3 fork from a couple of years ago and it doesn't have the tabs on it. However, my most recent F3 from Serotta does have them. These tabs seem only slightly larger than the ones on an older carbon fork from Trek, but not by much.

BTW, the Star carbon fork on my Colnago C-50 does not have the tabs.