New Build: What did i do wrong?

[giverdada]

hey friends:

i got my new custom frame after much ado, built it up halfway through the night, deciding to sleep at 3am before i screwed anything up, then cabled it and figured out the headset adjustment and whatnot the next day. front derailleur was sourced the day after that. awesome.

i did the build. this makes me hyper sensitive to any quirks the bike may give away, as i am highly critical of it all and want to make sure i did a good job. i mostly did, but i am not perfect or practiced, so i may mess things up. for example: i installed the lower headset bearing (cane creek s-3) upside down without knowing. headset preloads to the point of binding, but doesn't turn. i figured it out in my head as i walked to my lbs, and they confirmed and reinstalled it correctly. nice.

one thing remains that has me concerned. now, i premise this whole concern with the fact that i spent august completely off the road bike. cross bike and road bike were destroyed in a car collision, so i had only my tiny (dirt-jumping) mountain bike to ride. not exactly fitness-oriented, other than its behemoth weight. so i lost all fitness. i also lost fitness for a couple weeks in july when i fork steerer on the serotta was cracked. it's been a rough summer. anyway, i know i'm not as strong in the legs as i was in, say, june, and i know that coming to a pure road bike from a pure mountain bike leaves a huge comparison gap and a lot for my body to get used to.

that being said, the bike doesn't seem to want to go.

it flies when pointed down the road, it's awesome on gravel, i got over 50mph on the weekend's 212k epic last saturday, but it doesn't seem to want to ride off without me. my serotta seemed to do that, at least until i broke the carbon fork and put in a steel one. i'm convinced that this lack of 'pep' or pick-up is a combination of my lack of fitness, and something i did to screw up the build. i'm thinking the crankset mostly. it's a Campagnolo Chorus UT 39-53 172.5mm carbon on Super Record cups. i followed written, graphic, and video instructions on installation to a t. it's in there and solid, without lateral movement of any kind. but without a chain on it, it will not spin forever. it's almost reluctant to spin much. i think without a chain on, it spins about as long as my mountain bike spins backwards with a chain on. this seems wrong. i was hopeful that it's just a break-in thing, but maybe i did something wrong? the clip is still in there. it doesn't make noise. i don't know.

other possibilities:
crappy, micro-bent wheels/wheel bearings? (they seem to spin fine though)
chain too short/sticky? (haven't lubed it since new, but only ridden in dry)
cups in wrong side? (don't think so, but would this do it?)
wave washer in wrong side?
BB cable guide screw in too far and hindering axle movement? (reaching here)

i don't know. any help is greatly appreciated. maybe i just need to eat my wheaties...

n. :crap:

[4Rings6Stars]

Wheels would be my first guess? Maybe the frame isn't as stiff as your Serotta?

[giverdada]

The frame is the only thing right about the whole thing. Stiff and strong and smooth, which is why I'm curious about the lack of pep. Stiff means go, right? At least, unless it's on a fatigued cannondale from the 80's.

[dhoff]

i followed written, graphic, and video instructions on installation to a t. it's in there and solid, without lateral movement of any kind. but without a chain on it, it will not spin forever. it's almost reluctant to spin much. i think without a chain on, it spins about as long as my mountain bike spins backwards with a chain on. this seems wrong.:

seems wrong to me as well. I am not bike mechanic, but I have a lot of mechanical experience and one of the things I would be checking is the alignment of the bottom bracket. For quality components like that to not spin seems to indicate a problem.

[alexstar]

Were both sides of the BB shell faced properly? If they are not perfectly parallel to each other, the cups will not be parallel and the bearings could bind.

[clweed]

You will notice a difference If you are coming from a square taper to cups. Campy square taper spin forever, i took the rings off of two chorus 11 cranksets and put them on record ST cranks.

[Peter P.]

Drive train and bearing friction only account for 3-5% of power loss in a bicycle.

There's practically no way you can adjust a ball bearing system so tight as to notice it while riding a bike. For example, consider cheapo department store bikes which are virtually guaranteed to have poorly adjusted bearings. Also, I hate to say it, but when most bike shops assemble their low end bicycles, they almost never touch the front hub bearings. As a result, they are usually rough when twirling the axle with your fingers, but you wouldn't notice a thing once the bike is rolling down the road.

Different bikes just "feel" different i.e., some people have described certain carbon frames as feeling "dead" and they subsequently don't like them.

I think you're over analyzing your new frame. By the way; is it a steel frame? Is it your first steel frame? Could be you're used to lighter frames. And the stiffness you mentioned-isn't everything.

[LouDeeter]

Sounds to me like you are looking at the usual suspects. No brake rubbing, frame rubbing, front der cable rubbing on the rear tire--all sources that you would think would be easy to detect. When you spin the wheels, do they go on "forever"? I would lube the chain. But, that crank not spinning "forever" would make me want to understand why. After that, I would start to look at the fit issues, particularly saddle height and saddle fore/aft position. By the way, I've had plenty of bikes that should be "go" bikes but weren't. Always disappointing, but when you find one that is ready to roll, it is a pleasure to saddle up on it. Good luck.

[ultraman6970]

IMO It could be the frame itself. Frames behave differently one from another. Maybe the one u have now is not as aggressive as the Serotta, then a difference, maybe the new one has longer wheelbase, long chainstays and longer fork trail and basically drives and ride like an 18 wheeler truck, no matter how stiff it is it won't ride as the serotta ever, if the serotta u had was one of the racy ones even more noticeable.

If the new one is custom made who knows what u got or what serotta frame u had (havent heard model of any of the bikes), and people tend to like stiff frames and price that feature but if the frame is made for touring and old guys that never had used racing frames the feature you miss wont be there at all and old farts that never raced before have no idea about snappy and fast bikes at all, is not important for them.

Would be nice to know what you got now and what u had, as the geometries as well.

For the record I hope that when U say custom is not a stock frame from ebay with pieces picked one by one, yes that makes a custom made bike but the frame is not. The word custom can be interpreted in several ways, marketing maybe?

[John M]

I would vote for lost fitness. That said, maybe it is just stiffer than you are used to. Some bikes are so stiff that they don't have that springiness that some riders like.

[wtex]

I would get someone else to ride it, new perspective might help.

[Lifelover]

I can almost guarantee it has nothing to do with the build. Most likely you loss of fitness and not being used to a road bike.

People over estimate the loss when going to a mtb and likewise over estimate the gain when going to a road bike.

Could be tires if they are something you have not used before.

Every single time I have switched my main road bike, the new one has felt slow.

Ride it for a month without concern of feel and see if you perception changes.

[Black Dog]

I am very sure that super record cups are only to be used with super record UT cranks. The record cups are to be used for every other
UT crank. That could be the issue with drag.

[sokyroadie]

I am very sure that super record cups are only to be used with super record UT cranks. The record cups are to be used for every other
UT crank. That could be the issue with drag.

That would actually work the other way as far as drag is concerned - SR cups do not have a seal (it can be added) and Record cups do. Either way the drag is minimal.

You do need to switch cups or add the seal unless you have ceramic bearings on your crank.

JB

[oldpotatoe]

I am very sure that super record cups are only to be used with super record UT cranks. The record cups are to be used for every other
UT crank. That could be the issue with drag.

Sorry, but nope, you can use SR cups with other UT cranks and vice versa.

Small seal inside of Record cups(which I recommend for SR cranks) but no rider is going to be able to notice that.

I agree with others that fitness and new frame. I got a new Waterford stainless that 'felt' sluggish until I lost 10 pounds, then it 'felt' very 'bright'.

BTW-I grease the crappola outta all UT cranks, around the bearings(Yes, to the cult, ESB as well), inside the cups and if the bearings give up, I then use Wheels bearings that have seals on both sides of the bearings. Grease to protect and additional seal makes for longer lasting UT bearings, which aren't sealed well at all.

Nobody will 'feel' a difference. Ceramic, like 'lighter/stiffer' is the stuff of the marketing department, not the racing department.

[rugbysecondrow]

since the op said the crankset doesn't spin well on its own either, I would check the bb crankset install again paying attention the bb cable guide screw which might be too long and interfering. If that doesn't work, I would try another B2B cranked combo to see if that worked.

[ultraman6970]

Campagnolo UT cranks are not famous for spining a lot when new or used either. My best guess is that the OP has differences in the frames and that is messing him around. Is really hard to get a campagnolo set up wrong, even it it is wrong it wil lride ok but with creaks and noises but not slower.

[rugbysecondrow]

Campagnolo UT cranks are not famous for spining a lot when new or used either. My best guess is that the OP has differences in the frames and that is messing him around. Is really hard to get a campagnolo set up wrong, even it it is wrong it wil lride ok but with creaks and noises but not slower.

The OP says that even when not riding it the cranks don't spin. Sure the bike feels different to him, but if they aren't spinning the stand then something is not correct, something more than just the frame feeling different or him being out of shape.

[giverdada]

So thanks to everyone who has offered advice and hypotheses on the potential problem and solution. I took the chain off the rings and spun the crank last night. It spins as well or better than my wife's FSA gossamer that is 1 month old. So I guess anything regarding the crank is not the problem. I also checked the cable guide bolt and it has no effect on the assembly, screwed in or out all the way. The wheels spin forever. No brake or other rub of any kind. I'm pretty sure that I'm just slow. The base fitness may still be there, albeit latent, but any kind of flashy, top-end, panache fitness is gone. Time to get back to intervals and hills. The more I ride the bike, the better it feels and the less suspect of it I am. I did the build so am always on the lookout for errors, but when I just ride the thing, it's pretty great. Hopefully I can get my fitness more worthy of it before the snow hits Toronto. Btw: it's custom to my style and measurements and weight, built to order. It's steel. It's beautiful. It weighs more than my serotta ti but I could flex the serotta in an uphill burst of effort; this thing just goes forward. Still railing the turns. Working on figuring out some nicer wheels for it (hed Ardennes CL?) but enjoying the present ride as well. It seems the recommendation is to get record BB cups asap instead of super record. And then grease the hell out of it all. Alright. Thanks again for all the help. Once I train up, I'll let you know how it really rides!

[victoryfactory]

removed by author

[130R]

I think it's you.

I had the same thing happen to me (except getting a new bike). I was off the bike for almost 2 months due to a neck injury.

The day I got back on the bike, it sucked. I was at least 3-5 mph off my usual pace. I almost fainted trying to push my sprints where I had them before. I didn't ride for a week after that because I was so disappointed.

I re-motivated myself to get back on the bike and just kept riding. The ride got better with time and I hope yours does too.