TdF Helmet Rule?

[OnceFast]

I thought the rules allowed the riders to take off their helmets for the climb to mountain top finish. Has this rule been repealed this year as it looks like all the lids were on at Courchevel?

[paulh]

Yup, rule changed this year.

The International Cycling Union (UCI) at the start of the year amended the rules(helmets now on all stages)regarding the wearing of helmets, a rule which has been compulsory since shortly after the accidental death of Kazakh rider Andrei Kivilev in the race a few years ago.

I guess Axel Merckx was DQ'd at Paris-Nice for taking his helmet off at the base of a final climb.

[jerk]

stupid rule.

jerk

[coylifut]

stupid rule.

jerk

I bet the helmet sponsors like it.

[Sandy]

Smart rule.

Sometimes Smart Sometimes Stupid Serotta Sandy

[jerk]

I bet the helmet sponsors like it.


bet the riders don't.

[coylifut]

bet the riders don't.

Oh, I'm sure they wouldn't put on that Darth Vader looking thing by Specialized unless it was mandatory.

[97CSI]

bet the riders don't.Bet the one's that crash certainly do.

[jerk]

there aren't a lot of high speed dangerous crashes on a hors categorie climb.
plus, it's not like the rider couldn't wear a helmet if he wanted to.

jerk

[RichMc]

Buzz off you helmet Nazi's! BTW, I almost always wear one but when I don't I feel wonderful, free and stupid at the same time. It should always be the rider's free choice. I understand the safety arguments. I understand race rules for liability reasons. I've helped draft such rules for other sports. I still think free choice is the way to go.

[gasman]

I bet if it wasn't mandatory nobody would wear a helmet,ever.

[97CSI]

Couldn't care less if you or anyone else makes the choice to not wear a helmet.......except I have to pay for it. When you crash and become a vegatable then my insurance has to help pay for it and, thus, my insurance rates. And I don't like to pay for your choice. Helmets should always be manditory for those who don't sign away everything they and their family own in the event of a vegatative result when riding without a helmet. Wish they would write insurance in that manner. Same for seatbelts. No seatbelt..its all on you.

[dirtdigger88]

Couldn't care less if you or anyone else makes the choice to not wear a helmet.......except I have to pay for it. When you crash and become a vegatable then my insurance has to help pay for it and, thus, my insurance rates. And I don't like to pay for your choice. Helmets should always be manditory for those who don't sign away everything they and their family own in the event of a vegatative result when riding without a helmet. Wish they would write insurance in that manner. Same for seatbelts. No seatbelt..its all on you.

ok dude- then is big brother going to tell you what to eat- more people die in the us from being over weight than cycling- how about where you live - is your water quality up to par- oh and your job- too much stress- you are going to have medical conditions from that- you have to quit- do you talk on your cell phone while you drive- oh and speaking of driving- too dangerous- you must walk every where you go-

See how silly your statement really sounds?

Jason

[alembical]

This is a topic that I just can't decide my stance on. In general, I am kind of from the belief that mind your own business and let each of us decide ourselves. If I ran the Tour, though, I would also require helmets. The question is why (I am sure that all riders have signed some waiver) and where does it end?

Seat belts in cars most people agree are helpful (some like my dad still won't ever wear them), most people agree that helmets on motorcycle riders (or bike, although it is not required in any states I am aware of) help some (or at least don't hurt), but why don't we also require everyone in cars to wear helmets if we do of motorcycle riders? There is no doubt that requiring helmets when riding in cars (when used correctly with seatbelts and airbags....you can already hear the commercials) would save lives (same argument as motorcycles), but where we would stop? Real slippery slope. I think I would be real scarred if lining up at the next crit race, the guy next to me is wearing a full face helmet and body armor...but it would be safer.

Alembical

[97CSI]

See how silly your statement really sounds? JasonDoesn't sound any sillier now than when I wrote it. Reads just fine and very reasonable. Don't make me pay for your choices. I have no problem with throwing all fat people in jail and feeding them a reasonable diet until they weigh a reasonable amount. And we need more mass transit and a more bicycle friendly attitude. But....seriously. There are reasonable actions that can be taken and wearing helmets is one of them. Western Europe is a close approximation of the USA. And they seem to do pretty well with some reasonable restrictions on things like helmets, etc. Gotta go. My 13th pistol just arrived (S&W Model 19, 357 magnum). :D

[erty65]

I think Beltran was going uphill when he crashed and landed on his head!

[dirtdigger88]

I dont think I want to live in the police state that you call home- I wear a helmet- I just dont want big brother- or you- telling me how to live me life- I carry enough insurance that if I am hurt or killed- my family will not be asking you for any assistance-

Jason

[erty65]

I dont think I want to live in the police state that you call home- I wear a helmet- I just dont want big brother- or you- telling me how to live me life- I carry enough insurance that if I am hurt or killed- my family will not be asking you for any assistance-

Jason

premiums will rise!

[JohnS]

premiums will rise!
Premiums ALWAYS rise, just like taxes. If we all wore helmets and didn't do anything stupid, do you think they would go down? I don't think so...

[dirtdigger88]

Premiums ALWAYS rise, just like taxes. If we all wore helmets and didn't do anything stupid, do you think they would go down? I don't think so...

thank you!!

Jason

[bcm119]

Premiums ALWAYS rise, just like taxes. If we all wore helmets and didn't do anything stupid, do you think they would go down? I don't think so...

Yeah but you need someone to blame...how about that idiot with no helmet? Hes basically sucking the money right out of your account! :rolleyes:

[dirtdigger88]

here- you want to find the real person responsible for all of your financial problems-

jason

[William]

Premiums ALWAYS rise, just like taxes. If we all wore helmets and didn't do anything stupid, do you think they would go down? I don't think so...

As someone who's S.O. has been involved in the Health Insurance industry, and in recent years in Medical Malpractice Insurance, the reason they continually raise the premiums is because.....they can.


William

Though this past year my S.O. has gone into a totally different line....the "Cowboys" of the insurance industry.

[Fixed]

I sure don't want any of the guys to get hurt, but in the old days it sure was easy to spot riders.Let the rider decide.

[ClutchCargo]

thank you!!

Jason

JohnS is a fatalist, Dirt's a libertarian (no prob with that, Dirt, so long as we don't end up seeing your house on the news, referred to as a "compound," :D ), and we've gotten ourselves into never-ending-debate land. I can't resist.

so, just a couple of things:

-- society will always impose rules. hardly anyone would seriously debate the proposition that it's ok to live by rules that we believe to be reasonable for our peace, health, well-being, etc. for example, how about a rule saying it's illegal to carry firearms around with you on the street, is that one OK? ( I know, I know, bad choice, cuz someone will argue that one, too! ok, how about, no unprovoked killing of others?) so, is it reasonable to require a racer (any rider?) to wear a helmet? it's the cost (inconvenience) vs. benefit question, isn't it? I'd say it's pretty small cost, potentially pretty large benefit. others may disagree. but basically, Dirt, it's a matter of degree, no? the jackboots and goose-steppers are not just around the block, marching for your door.

-- on this point, what someone finds to be reasonable reflects, to a large extent, their experience. 30 (40?) years ago, many hockey goalies laughed at those who chose to wear a mask. those laughing were Gump Worsley (sp?) and his buds (by the way, ever take a look at Gump's mug?) within 10 years, though, before any rule changes, it was hard to find a goalie who was not wearing one. Gump and his buds never wore a mask growing up, so they thought they were silly and inconvenient. maybe because they started playing hockey before masks (at least ones not made of iron!) were invented. the generation that replaced him didn't have that experiential bias; masks seemed ok to them, especially after Gary Cheevers started painting zipper-marks on his mask for every hit by a puck that would've put him in stitches. oh, and how about baseball players and batting helmets? catchers and face masks ... shinguards ... cups!

-- this strikes me as one of those rules the debate of which will fall by the wayside rather quickly. helmets today are light and comfortable, and to anyone who has grown up wearing a lid when they bike, it's second nature (just like clipping the seat belt in the car). my kid looked at me cross-eyed when I mentioned not wearing a helmet when I was his age and after he asked "why not?" I told him they basically didn't exist at the time!

my 2 cents

[dirtdigger88]

I grew up in a farming community- everyone lived on a "compound" :p

[William]

I grew up in a farming community- everyone lived on a "compound" :p

Did you mean "compost"? :p


William ;)

[dirtdigger88]

Did you mean "compost"? :p


William ;)

no you are thinking of the "out house"

Jason

[William]

no you are thinking of the "out house"

Jason

There aren't really any "out houses" at the compound is there. :no:

http://www.surfinside.com/Pic's%20Link/Digi%20Pic's/baja%20skunk/dirt%20road%20time%20out.jpg



William ;)

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=ClutchCargo]JohnS is a fatalist, Dirt's a libertarian (no prob with that, Dirt, so long as we don't end up seeing your house on the news, referred to as a "compound," :D ), and we've gotten ourselves into never-ending-debate land. I can't resist.

so, just a couple of things:

-- society will always impose rules. hardly anyone would seriously debate the proposition that it's ok to live by rules that we believe to be reasonable it's illegal to carry firearms around with you on the street, is that one OK? ( I know, I know, bad choice, cuz someone will argue that one, too! ok, how about, no unprovoked killing of others?) sofor our peace, health, well-being, etc. for example, how about a rule saying , is it reasonable to require a racer (any rider?) to wear a helmet? it's the cost (inconvenience) vs. benefit question, isn't it? I'd say it's pretty small cost, potentially pretty large benefit. others may disagree. but basically, Dirt, it's a matter of degree, no? the jackboots and goose-steppers are not just around the block, marching for your door.

I wonder if Keith Haring would agree with you I see you are a fan of his so am I.Cheers

[dirtdigger88]

I just saw the part about carrying fire arm- In the state of Mo. I CAN carry a fire arm on the street-- I can even keep it hidden from site- All I had to do is get my permit-

Jason

[JohnS]

I just saw the part about carrying fire arm- In the state of Mo. I CAN carry a fire arm on the street-- I can even keep it hidden from site- All I had to do is get my permit-

Jason
Same here in the Great (Lake) State of Michigan. Sure am glad that I don't live in an "enlightened" state like CA, IL, NY or MA. We all know how much safer it is to live there with their stricter gun laws. I hear that none of the felons there can even get guns. :banana:

[93legendti]

Couldn't care less if you or anyone else makes the choice to not wear a helmet.......except I have to pay for it. When you crash and become a vegatable then my insurance has to help pay for it and, thus, my insurance rates. And I don't like to pay for your choice. Helmets should always be manditory for those who don't sign away everything they and their family own in the event of a vegatative result when riding without a helmet. Wish they would write insurance in that manner. Same for seatbelts. No seatbelt..its all on you.

I agree. I wore a helmet when I climbed Alpe D'Huez in '98 on a record temperature day (it was over 90 degrees) and did not melt. You can suffer a head injury from a slow speed fall, not just from high speed falls. In fact, when I was five years old I fell off my bike (at a slower speed than pros climb) and split my head open. It was the 60's and no one wore helmets.

If you're too cool to wear a helmet, that's fine. Just make sure your hospital bills can be paid 100% from your own pocket, not by insurance companies those of us smart enough to wear a helmet also happen to be insured by.

[93legendti]

:)

[dirtdigger88]

Send your kids to school? Vacinate them? Wear a seat belt? Stop at red lights? Pay property and income taxes? Got a permit for your gun? Do you have a business license? Drive on the road? Does your home have side and front/rear set backs from your property line? Do you keep a minumum level of car insurance? The Gov't tells you how to run your life every day. That is not a police state. The state you seem to desribe --if you truly mean "I just dont want big brother- or you- telling me how to live me life" would be anarchy, where everyone could do what they want, where they want and when they want.

But if you truly do not want "...big brother- or you- telling me how to live (your) life", make sure you don't call the police or fire department when you need help or drive on the roads, don't use city water and septic/sewer systems, make sure you home school your kids, etc...Just be consistent...

I thought you and I agreed not to debate issues?

Jason

[Sandy]

I said that I thought the helmet rule on the Tour was a good rule. Actually, in most instances I believe that one should make their own choice (I also think that the choice of not using a helmet when riding is a foolish one). However, not wearing a helmet on the Tour goes beyond an individual's choice, in that there are so many kids watching the Tour and so many young adults and so many newbies that can be greatly influenced by what the pros do. Just look at the sale of bicycles and how so many cyclists do what the pros do.

So I guess if I were really pushed, I am not sure what I would say about mandating helmets on the Tour (I know that I already said it). It would be difficult in choosing whether to mandate using helmets or not, based on my thinking that each individual should make his own choice and my thinking that a lot of individuals would probably not use helmets simply because they see the pros not using them.

I am so confused- I think that I will wear half a helmet,

Sandy

[93legendti]

I thought you and I agreed not to debate issues?

Jason


Did we? Don't recall! If we did, and I was debating you, I apologize and will delete my posts...

[Tom]

When I was a kid I never wore a helmet, never hit my head. Except for the time my mom dropped me out the second floor window but that's a story for another time. These days I put one on without even thinking about it even though I would rather ride without one. It's just that these days I can't keep track of enough things at one time so if I do fall over I know I'm going to forget the part about not bouncing the noggin off something hard.

Besides, I saw somebody having an epileptic fit one time. It sucks to have a whole group of people standing around you, one half of them yelling "Grab his tongue so he doesn't swallow it!" and the other half laughing uncontrollably.

[Sandy]

The other half were primarily insensitve, non-understanding, non-caring people.

Sandy

[Kevin]

Sandy,

Will you stop talking as though I am not in the room. I may be insensitive, non-caring and non-understanding, but I do have feelings. ;)

Kevin

[csb]

cranium condom

[JohnS]

Doesn't sound any sillier now than when I wrote it. Reads just fine and very reasonable. Don't make me pay for your choices. I have no problem with throwing all fat people in jail and feeding them a reasonable diet until they weigh a reasonable amount. And we need more mass transit and a more bicycle friendly attitude. But....seriously. There are reasonable actions that can be taken and wearing helmets is one of them. Western Europe is a close approximation of the USA. And they seem to do pretty well with some reasonable restrictions on things like helmets, etc. Gotta go. My 13th pistol just arrived (S&W Model 19, 357 magnum). :D
To carry this argument one, stupid step farther, I don't like where some people live and I think they shouldn't be allowed to. Look at all the idiots living on barrier islands in Florida who keep rebuilding using government (my) money. Look at California, millions living on an earthquake fault. Yet most of these people don't have proper insurance so I have to bail them out. Why can't more people be like us Midwesterners? We have a flood, so what. We have a snow blizzard, we dig out. We don't need (or want) any stinking help. Just my two cents!

[Don]

As a former Midwesterner now living in Florida, let me ask what happens when tornados strike? Kind of recall federal assistance during these disasters!

[csb]

To carry this argument one, stupid step farther, I don't like where some people live and I think they shouldn't be allowed to. Look at all the idiots living on barrier islands in Florida who keep rebuilding using government (my) money. Look at California, millions living on an earthquake fault. Yet most of these people don't have proper insurance so I have to bail them out. Why can't more people be like us Midwesterners? We have a flood, so what. We have a snow blizzard, we dig out. We don't need (or want) any stinking help. Just my two cents!

czec +

[JohnS]

As a former Midwesterner now living in Florida, let me ask what happens when tornados strike? Kind of recall federal assistance during these disasters!
The dollar amounts don't even compare. Mobile home parks are much cheaper to replace than beachfront villas. :)

[97CSI]

Should we evacuate the midwest (that includes MI)? Can't compare mostly random events (tornado) with folks who choose to live in harms way (barrier islands). I agree. Insurance should not be offered to those who choose to rebuild in known dangerous areas (barrier islands, flood zones, etc.) and second homes should not be covered at all. Only primary residences. And helmets should be manditory. :D

[Louis]

Yeah, guys, this is one argument we will be able to resolve! If you aren’t willing to wear a helmet I see only one solution:

We all go back to living in caves, and only the strongest survive. The big hairy guys with big clubs get all the good-looking women and the warm caves, and anarchy rules. No rules, other than might makes right, and everyone for him/herself.

[JohnS]

Yeah, guys, this is one argument we will be able to resolve! If you aren’t willing to wear a helmet I see only one solution:

We all go back to living in caves, and only the strongest survive. The big hairy guys with big clubs get all the good-looking women and the warm caves, and anarchy rules. No rules, other than might makes right, and everyone for him/herself.
Are you Dirtdigger's chimeric twin? :D