I think I killed my Serotta

[crupshaw]

So I bought a Serotta CSi (1997 year model) on craigslist a few months ago, and just about everything was in tip-top shape, except for a slight wobble in the chain ring while pedaling. Being a person who fancies himself pretty hand (as well as being cheap) I decided to try and fix it myself. The Bike came with all DA 7400 series stuff, and is really in good shape. I took the crank arms off and tightened the bottom bracket cups (I am pretty sure this was the problem), and then tightened everything back up.

I rolled out my driveway and started down the road, looking down to see if the chain ring was still out of plane with the front derailleur. Next thing I know, I am doing a somersault over the handlebars. I ran into a parked car. Talk about feeling terrible; not only was my hand all bloodied from basically punching the tail light at about 12 miles an hour, but I also put a kink in the down tube right at the lug. I feel terrible, not because of the bloody hand, or the busted car, but because this bike is a classic.

Is this bike dead? Do I now have an expensive piece of mantle art, a constant reminder of my shameful accident?

[flydhest]

Dude, sympathies. I have no idea about the bike's long-term condition, but it is a great, classic bike and I feel for you if it is seriously damaged.

[Germany_chris]

It looks wrong...sorry....

[Pete Serotta]

and maybe the down tube by fork has a buckle. It can be repaired and repainted to look like new BUT,,,,,,,,,it is a very personal decision and if sent to SEROTTA, it will be repaired and look as new,


Hit very hard and you are very lucky to not be hurt worse :)

[crupshaw]

Yea, the local bike shop I took it to said the fork was a little messed up, but probably pretty easily fixable. This got my hopes up, thinking maybe everything would be alright. Then he noticed the buckled down tube, and said to quote "oh yea, this frame is totally F#@*ed". Heart breaker.

But Serotta could theoretically repair this? I thought I read somewhere they stopped doing repairs of lugged steel frames. It was on the internet, so I assumed it was true...

[David Kirk]

Bummer - You should know you are not alone. I remember many years ago a friend I worked with did the same thing (parked car) with a brand new bike he'd just assembled. Poop happens.

As for the bike - it's hard to say with certainty but I'd guess the damage is serious. The down tube has a ripple at the lower edge of the lug and the fork is bent. It's hard to tell if the top tube is also damaged.

I suspect that you will find that the fork needs to be replaced (no one likes repairing forks for safety reasons) and the down tube will need to be replaced. If the top tube is also rippled then you'd be looking at a top tube/down tube/head tube replacement.

FWIW this kind of repair is done all the time and the bike can be made to ride and look like new.

Sorry.

dave

[the night owl]

I really feel for you about your bike. It's a classic frame and fixing it is going to be expensive. However, think about how badly you could have been hurt and it puts the damage to the bike in perspective. People have suffered really severe injuries from lesser crashes. The bike can be fixed or replaced; that's not always the case to your person. Again, sorry it happened it was really bad luck but it could have been much much worse.

[lhuerta]

Time of death....Sunday, September 4, 10:49 AM....your frame and fork are toast and headed to the eternal heap of scrap metal.
Sorry.
Lou

[Smiley]

and maybe the down tube by fork has a buckle. It can be repaired and repainted to look like new BUT,,,,,,,,,it is a very personal decision and if sent to SEROTTA, it will be repaired and look as new,


Hit very hard and you are very lucky to not be hurt worse :)


I pretty sure Serotta refers these repairs direct to Kelly Bedford. I don't think they work on luggged bikes anymore.

[crupshaw]

The bike is also made from Serotta's Colorado Concept tubing, so I am assuming that it would not be a straightforward repair.

I am very thankful that I did not severely injure myself, or do this into an oncoming moving car.

And although the bike is toast, I can now lust after new bikes. Although I need to wait until I figure out how much damage I did to the car...

[bike22]

it is repairable but the repair+repaint will likely cost what you paid for the bike, or even double

that said, i'd ride it as is.

[thwart]

Since it's an otherwise mint CSI (likely the most desirable steel Serotta), it might be worth the cash to repair it and have it repainted.

A lot of builders can do this kind of work well. I suspect you're correct in that the CC tubing will make the replacement downtube a bit more pricey, but would still be a small addition to the total cost of the repair.

Good luck!

[buldogge]

Do you want it to be perfect, or do you want it to be rideable?

The frame can be straightened easily (there is even a Park frame tool) but the cracked paint will remain of course.

If the DT if rippled then the TT most likely is as well.

The tool goes thru the HT and positions in relation to the BB shell...kinda like a mini auto frame straightening machine.

Forks are usually easy, although what Dave said about feelings of liability may well be true...

-Mark in St. Louis

[bike22]

is the CSI tubing available for aftermarket repairs?

[Terry312]

I checked the Kelly Bedford and Joe Bell sites and of course, it can be repaired. If you send it to Kelly, he's going to send it out for paint. I'd look into it if I were you. Ball park, I'd estimate it to end up around $1,500.

It's going to be the right season for repair soon, better get in the cue and have it ready for spring.

[sailorboy]

I dunno, I just don't think the repair costs are worth it. After a paint job that you will feel lives up to the original finish, I would bet you will have well-more than what you initially spent on it in the full repair/re-finish.

These things or something like them come up all the time on ebay or c-list, so just enjoy the process of fishing for a replacement and hang this one on the wall as a good story and don't forget to be thankful you came out of it relatively un-scathed. If you want my opinion, get a CRL, they ride a bit less harsh than the CSI in my experience and share most of the same attributes with the CC tubing etc.

[ButtedMoron]

it can be repaired
so it all matters, fix this or buy another
if you choose the latter, give this to someone who will repair it and ride it

[Gothard]

It is either fork out for a repair, or fork out for another frame.
I doubt you'll find a frame of the same quality for the price of a repair, which will get you a repainted frame as well; so if it fits you, it is a no-brainer.

[DfCas]

I had a bent fork once and the builder would not starighten and return it. They cut it up. The liability risk of a fork failure is too high.

My steel fork was on a cross bike and was not crashed, just rough cross riding bent it backwards.

[Jeff N.]

In insurance lingo, it's totalled (cost of repair is likely more than frame is worth). It's now yard art, IMO. So sorry.

[stephenmarklay]

I dunno, I just don't think the repair costs are worth it. After a paint job that you will feel lives up to the original finish, I would bet you will have well-more than what you initially spent on it in the full repair/re-finish.

These things or something like them come up all the time on ebay or c-list, so just enjoy the process of fishing for a replacement and hang this one on the wall as a good story and don't forget to be thankful you came out of it relatively un-scathed. If you want my opinion, get a CRL, they ride a bit less harsh than the CSI in my experience and share most of the same attributes with the CC tubing etc.

I can't compare them but my 1996 CR was a dreamy ride :). I believe it had a thicker gauge top tube (heavier) than the crl but very similar.

[Louis]

The cheapo way to fix it (bending the fork back into position) will work for a short period of time, until you get an actual fork or frame tube failure. (That's what happened to me after I performed a similar repair - the DT failed just below the HT-DT lug)

The expensive way to do it (tube replacement and new fork, new paint job) isn't worth it.

Write this one off to experience, get another one and be more careful next time.

Louis

[Marcusaurelius]

Well I do know of one or two places who might repair and paint for about $300-400. This was a little while ago so it might have gone up a little. The paint was $200 and replacing a tube was $150.

[crupshaw]

I paid $900 for it on CL, so it was a comparatively small loss compared to if I had bought it new. I am wondering about the thickness of the tubing, and what the original owner had is spec'd for. I hit pretty hard (obviously), but not hard enough to bend the wheel (near as I can tell) or flat the tire or anything.

As far as whether or not to repair it, I will probably try and find someone with a better camera to take some good shots of it, and then email around to try and get an idea as to possibility/ballpark price.

It is a very pretty bike, so the thought of wall mounting it as art is not so terrible; fine art in other media cost just as much.

If anyone has an awesome 59 (+-)cm frame that they are wanting to get rid of, let me know.

[Pete Serotta]

among others can also do a frame. David Kirk (Kirk frame works), Ellis frames (Dave Wages), Tom Kellogg (SPECTRUM) among others would be able to make as new. but quality is not cheap.... PETE

[nighthawk]

I know Chris and Brian at Circle A do tube replacements... and they could build you a new fork, and repaint, etc. etc.

Contact them for a quote. http://www.circleacycles.com/

And ask around to other builders, too. Nothing wrong with having a clear idea of the cost of the repair before you make a decision.

If you end up wall-mounting it.. put it somewhere where you'll see it every time you go out for a ride. :)

[sjpitts]

Go take a look at this BF thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/639840-The-most-elusive-Park-Tool-has-surfaced.-Bent-headtubes-take-note.?highlight=park%20tool%20frame%20headtube

It seems that Park has a tool for the job. I am not sure if it is good enough for your bike, but it would be better than not ever riding it again.

http://www.jaysmarine.com/parkframestraightener2.jpg

[Peter P.]

Go for the repair; it'll still be less than a NEW lugged steel frame from virtually any builder, and it will still be a Serotta.

The only problem I foresee is is the frame repairer sourcing the Colorado Concept tubes, if any. To confirm the ability of the shop you choose, ask if they have access to those special tubes.

You should be excited about your accident because now you have a chance to pick ANY new colors you want!

[crupshaw]

I will have to think for a little while about getting it repaired. I think it would easily be twice what I paid for it when its all said and done, but I also would hate for that to be its last ride. Being able to pick the colors this time around would be nice; as much as I love the in-your-face boldness of the yellow and red, I would like to see it in a vibrant burnt orange (I am a student at Texas).

[Dekonick]

Go for the repair - but have S&S couplers installed at the same time. You can also have the head tube changed to 1 1/8 if you want... may as well...

I am having Kelly Bedford do this to my Hors Categorie as we speak. It will make the cost of repair a much more worthwhile expense.

:)

Belienky can also do it...

http://www.bilenky.com/Repairs.html

http://www.bilenky.com/retro_prices.html

http://www.bilenky.com/retro_paint_options.html

[saab2000]

1. Repair it. It can be done by a competent builder. And example of this would be Serotta. They have done bikes like this in the past. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Fork too.....

2. Get rid of that stem and bars. Get a Cinelli 1A or comparable Nitto and get some proper round bars.... :rolleyes:

3. Enjoy that first ride back on your pride and joy.

Been there, done that.

EDIT 2: fix that front brake pad.... :no:

[Dekonick]

So for a repair with S&S you are looking at probably $1400. If you want a fork, waltworks can make you a steel replacement for ~300, or you can get Bedford, Kirk, etc... to make one. If going repair and keeping 1", I would buy a serotta fork used on the forum and have it painted to match. Plenty of steel forks out there... or just get a carbon fork.

:)

Glad you are ok!

[crupshaw]

The idea of getting S&S couplers installed while repairing it is an intriguing idea I hadn't thought of, although I don't know if those would work with the Colorado concept tubing, since it's a non-constant diameter.

So many possibilities, so little money.

[Mike748]

Go take a look at this BF thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/639840-The-most-elusive-Park-Tool-has-surfaced.-Bent-headtubes-take-note.?highlight=park%20tool%20frame%20headtube

It seems that Park has a tool for the job. I am not sure if it is good enough for your bike, but it would be better than not ever riding it again.

http://www.jaysmarine.com/parkframestraightener2.jpg

Around 1980 when I was working in a bike shop we had a giant spike that we'd mount in a giant bench vise. Invert and insert the headtube and pull to straighten. I recall a hi-ten frame could be straightened with about the effort needed to raise a beer. A chro-mo frame would take several of us hanging from it!

Unless annealed (new paint) it will eventually crack. Probably will anyway. Only real solution is replacing the tube.

[stephenmarklay]

I hate the idea of the frame not being able to run wild again but...

You can likely replace the entire bike for $1000.00 Give or take. One sold on the forum for less with full Record.

[Dekonick]

I hate the idea of the frame not being able to run wild again but...

You can likely replace the entire bike for $1000.00 Give or take. One sold on the forum for less with full Record.

Yes - but you can probably get it repaired with S&S for close to the same. Call Kelly Bedford - can't hurt to ask. They are going to replace the tubing if they repair it. I believe there is a stash of tubing for repair, but why not just have them repair the tubes with straight guage steel? My Bedford Touring bike is straight guage steel and it is a sublime ride. I also own a colorado CR (lovely ride too!) Nothing wrong with the new steel tubes... I am sure KB, Kirk, etc... can tell you more. Don't forget you have the option to go to a 1 1/8 head tube if you do the S&S conversion and you still have a Serotta... that by itself will make the frame more 'valuable' as you have many more fork options...

Bilenky offers similar services, but to keep your Serotta a Serotta I would have KB do it if he can fit you into the schedule...

Colorado concept tubing can be converted, but the couplers may not be where you typically see them... as they need to go where the steel can take 'em. If it were me I would just replace the tubes, get 1 1/8 HT, and S&S with straight guage tubes. Single color paint and call it a day. They might even be able to do your orange... and all of this at a fraction of the cost of a new lugged bike.

Good luck!

[slowandsteady]

Time of death....Sunday, September 4, 10:49 AM....your frame and fork are toast and headed to the eternal heap of scrap metal.
Sorry.
Lou

TOTALLY disagree!

Dave Kirk says "FWIW this kind of repair is done all the time and the bike can be made to ride and look like new."

If DAVE KIRK tells you this then believe him.

[bike22]

is the CSI tubing available for aftermarket repairs?
?

[crupshaw]

This bike will live again someday, but it'll probably have to wait until spring, when I will hopefully have a few k$ (kilo-dollars) to have it done completely right (and get a really sweet new lugged fork). I too trust Dave Kirk on the repair-ability of the bike. I think I would want it repaired with CSI tubing to keep it as original as possible, but I will deffer to what the repairer recommends when the time comes.

In the mean time, I will probably start stripping the parts off it today. It has 8-speed Dura Ace with the STI levers and 7410 crank, all of which made it through completely fine, aside from a few scratches. I think I have to keep this group for when its repaired, if it doesn't get put on an equally awesome frame in the mean time.

[roguedog]

Hey I see you're in TX. Maybe take it by Daltex (http://ridedaltex.com/) and see what he thinks. Don't know much bout him but he has open shop night on Mon if you're in the area.

I think that Alan Wanta does a lot of refurb'ing.

Also, Spectrum Cycles does repairs (http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/images/downloads/repair.pdf) .


Bummer man...

[crupshaw]

I am in Austin, which is a several hour jaunt from Dallas. However, that does remind me that the Texas Custom Bike Show (http://texascustombicycleshow.ridedaltex.com/index.htm) is coming up next month, so I will definitely have to go by that and ask around for some opinions.

[bicycletricycle]

i was also wondering if the appropriate tapered tubing was available.

[nighthawk]

If you want to see what some tube replacements look like:

http://www.circleacycles.com/brian/category/bike-repairs/
http://www.circleacycles.com/brian/2007/04/09/completed-casati/

There's even a serotta in there:

http://www.circleacycles.com/brian/2010/05/24/saved-serotta/

*edit: they used Columbus SL for the Serotta tube replacement*

I'm not trying to sell you on Circle A doing the work, any builder will be able to do this... but the pictures can give you hope that you'll get to put some more miles on that frame.

Still very curious as to whether or not Serotta tubes are available to other builders to do replacements. Can anyone confirm this?

[stephenmarklay]

For sure post an add for a fork as I bet there are some in a members stash.