Curved forks versus Straight bladed...is there a difference???

[SoCalSteve]

Hi all,

I mean, given the fork rake is the same on both...Is there a difference in the way the bike handles, feels, etc., given one over the other (and all other things being completely equal)?

As always, thank you all in advance,

Steve

PS: If there is a difference, please explain it to me without using any geometry formulas, algebraic equations or anything else that has to do with MATH!...Thanks.

[rice rocket]

They're different, just like how sloping and level top tubes are different.

[thwart]

I think Colnago did some work that debunked (that seems to be the word of the day... :rolleyes: ) the notion that curved forks ride better than straight ones, IIRC.

[SoCalSteve]

They're different, just like how sloping and level top tubes are different.

The only thing different between a level top tube bike and a sloping is aesthetics. Is that what you meant?

Thanks,

Steve

[witcombusa]

Of course there is a difference, straight forks look like crap :no:

[rice rocket]

The only thing different between a level top tube bike and a sloping is aesthetics.


Depends who you ask. :confused:

[thwart]

Of course there is a difference, straight forks look like crap :no:

I beg to differ.

[flydhest]

Yeah, straight blades look cooler, except when curved ones do.

[thinpin]

Good question. Was just chewing on that the other day. Llewellyn seem all straight these days.

[SoCalSteve]

Is the reason no one is giving me an answer regarding the ride differences is because there are none????

[rice rocket]

The reason is because there's no definitive answer.

Ask an engineer to design a straight bladed fork and a curved, and he'll give you two solutions that will ride differently. Then ask him to design a curved fork that rides like his first fork, and a straight bladed one that rides like his second. And you'll have 4 forks, that all ride differently and all weigh different amounts. :p

[happycampyer]

Steve,

This was discussed at length here several years ago. The topic came up again not so long ago on vsalon:

Serotta Competition Bicycle Forums - Steel forks: straight blade vs. curved (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=34268&page=3&pp=15)

Velocipede Salon - Steel Fork Question for frame builders (http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/steel-fork-question-frame-builders-20798.html)

[eddief]

you decide.

In designing the our first compact prototype back in mid '98, we wanted to discover what if any the real world differences there would be between traditional and compact frame designs. Our first compact frame (still my favorite frame) was an exact replica of my then current titanium frame in materials and geometry save for the sloping top tube. I designed it with a severe (17 degree) slope to ensure that any differences would be as obvious as possible. We had assumed that the new frame would be somewhat stiffer and lighter. It was lighter (about 4 ounces) but it was not appreciatively stiffer. Although we were able to measure a slight increase in stiffness, it was too slight to feel. The big change came when I stood to accelerate or climb. As I stood up, the bike appeared to loose three pounds. The inertia of the bike as I rocked it back and fourth was reduced so much that I felt as though I was on a twelve-pound bike. Interestingly, when seated, a compact frame feels exactly like a traditional design. The compact design has no effect on handling beyond the increases responsiveness during climbing and accelerating.



The only thing different between a level top tube bike and a sloping is aesthetics. Is that what you meant?

Thanks,

Steve

[eddief]

e-RICHIE11-14-05, 02:58 PM
there is no difference if the offsets are equal.
straight bladed forks are a manufacturing option
which affords the maker efficiency and productivity.
it's easier to cant two straight blades into, say, a
45mm rake, than it is two rake two singular
blades into matching and parallel sets for a
curved build.
e-RICHIE©™®

-----------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmg
from the colnago web site on the precisa straight fork orgins.

Why does Colnago use a straight blade fork design?
Colnago’s straight blade fork was born in 1987 in collaboration with Ferrari engineers during a discussion about cold setting fork curvature. Ernesto Colnago and the Ferrari engineers discovered that while the curved fork didn’t absorb road vibrations and shocks, while the straight bladed fork did. From that testing, Colnago’s PRECISA fork was born, and subsequently, many of Colnago’s competitors adopted a straight blade fork.


------------------------------

David Kirk circa 2007

That is the exact opposite results of all the testing I've ever done...........and I've done more than I want to remember.

A curved blade absorbs more shock and the testing I did leads me too this conclusion. Some folks might feel the difference and some might not.

Dave

[cmg]

Colnago also discovered that the straight blades were able to be produced at a lower cost and help distinquish them from their competitors. I thought they looked odd when i first saw them back in the day but have gotten to favor them.

[Louis]

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Italian/PMPcrnkL.jpg

[pdmtong]

cosmetics.....

I like sloping TT (6-8d) and straight forks (Z3c, SSR. ottrott).

Exception is my incoming lugged vanilla (1d, slight curved fork)

[Ken Robb]

I think Grant Petersen (who loves the look of curved forks) wrote that if the curved parts of forks really flexed to absorb shock the paint would flake off and it doesn't. It would seem that a designer can achieve similar performance either way so the choice is mostly based on aesthetics.

[rice rocket]

I think Grant Petersen (who loves the look of curved forks) wrote that if the curved parts of forks really flexed to absorb shock the paint would flake off and it doesn't. It would seem that a designer can achieve similar performance either way so the choice is mostly based on aesthetics.

Urethane based paints are flexible.

Does your car bumper lose all it's paint when you lean on it?

[false_Aest]

IIRC from my thread on VSalon

Sachs says no difference.
Kirk says curved = more shock absorbing.

at least with steel.


For CF . . . it seems that you can purchase a fork that has the right compliance. Whether its straight or curved shouldn't matter if the CF layup is done right.

Quote from the VSalon thread that was quoted from another thread

"It's an aesthetics thing. If you can feel the difference, you should get a job as a human-mammographer."

Makes me giggle

[ultraman6970]

human-mammographer <- how the guy knows which was my nick name at the school?? :rolleyes:

[Kontact]

I think Grant Petersen (who loves the look of curved forks) wrote that if the curved parts of forks really flexed to absorb shock the paint would flake off and it doesn't. It would seem that a designer can achieve similar performance either way so the choice is mostly based on aesthetics.
Sometimes I have to wonder where GP gets some of this stuff. Bikes visibly flex all over, without shedding paint. And forks do flex, but the flex is distributed across a pretty long span.

The question of curved blades could be interesting, if any steel fork actually flexed much at all. But steel forks do not deflect as much as carbon or aluminum ones, so comparing the ride of one very stiff fork to another very stiff fork doesn't seem very useful.

I would think that a curved fork could change where the fork flexes, and maybe change the feel or durability of the fork, but not the total amount of deflection. I really have to wonder if any conservatively curved part of a bicycle (like seat stays) could possibly have enough offset to act any different than a straight one. (Kirk's design would be the obvious exception.)

[Peter B]

The straight fork Dazza built rides real nice.

The curved fork Steve Rex built rides real nice too.

It's more a function of tube shape, diameter, wall thickness/butting than blade curvature (or lack thereof).

Now what about equivalent trail arrived at via different HTA and rake? Do they both feel the same??

There's a question to bake your noodle.

[Ken Robb]

Urethane based paints are flexible.

Does your car bumper lose all it's paint when you lean on it?

True but does Joe Bell or any other bike-painting master use urethane paint? I know my JB paint jobs look a lot better than my car bumpers. :)

[duke]

Colnago also built those goofy chain stays with the holes in them and claimed they solved all problems short of global warming, right up until they didn't, and they went away...
duke

[Smiley]

Is the reason no one is giving me an answer regarding the ride differences is because there are none????


Kelly and I pondered this question when we designed Rugby's second bike and no ride differences just looks different and you have less LUG choices with straight bladed forks.

[e-RICHIE]

Colnago also built those goofy chain stays with the holes in them <cut>


you have a picture of these atmo?

ps

arrange disorder

;) ;) ;)
;) ;) ;)
:rolleyes: ;) ;)

[ORMojo]

you have a picture of these atmo?

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/navigators_colnago_lagutin/2007TdGStage7-Atlanta_GlennKalnins022.jpg

[e-RICHIE]

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/navigators_colnago_lagutin/2007TdGStage7-Atlanta_GlennKalnins022.jpg






whoa it just stopped raining here atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:cool: :) :)

[happycampyer]

whoa it just stopped raining here atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:cool: :) :)Come to think of it, have you noticed how the the weather has gone to h@ll since Colnago discontinued the C-50?

[e-RICHIE]

Come to think of it, have you noticed how the the weather has gone to h@ll since Colnago discontinued the C-50?



why yes, bill - i have atmo. it's freezing here so i better plug in my gaulzetti and warm up.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool: :cool: :cool:
:cool: :cool: :cool:
;) :cool: :cool:

[ButtedMoron]

easier to make and cheaper
that's about it
from an armchair engineer's perspective I'd say vibrations travel quickest/easiest in a straight line and that springs have a curve in them for a reason but I didn't sleep well last night

[malcolm]

True but does Joe Bell or ny other bike-painting master use urethane paint? I know my JB paint jobs look a lot better than my car bumpers. :)


I think a lot of JB paints are imron or a version of that and it is a urethane type of paint

[Rueda Tropical]

I'd bet you would be able to feel the added flex with the fork to the right with it's low and large bend. Between the older curved Colnago blades and the later straight blades maybe not so much.

[michael white]

I'd bet you would be able to feel the added flex with the fork to the right with it's low and large bend. Between the older curved Colnago blades and the later straight blades maybe not so much.

would be interesting if there were a tester without an agenda to test such a thing. if there were . . .

[Len J]

I've never wondered....but then again, I think straight bladed forks are fugly and wouldn't own a bike with them.

Ymmv.

Len

[palincss]

would be interesting if there were a tester without an agenda to test such a thing. if there were . . .

So you're saying you dismiss the tests Jan published in BQ demonstrating fork flex because you believe he has an agenda?

[e-RICHIE]

I'd bet you would be able to feel the added flex with the fork to the right with it's low and large bend. Between the older curved Colnago blades and the later straight blades maybe not so much.

i dunno if it's a valid comparison to take a fork with 45mm of rake and judge it with one
which has an additional 20mm atmo. also, the dropouts on the colnago are vertical to the
ground, as they should be for efficient wheel insertion; the touring fork has parts that lean
forward, a detail whose origins i am not to sure about. it all matters.

ps

arrange disorder

:p :p :p
:p :p :p
:D :p :p

[Pete Serotta]

Is the reason no one is giving me an answer regarding the ride differences is because there are none????


Ask :D MIke Lopez or David Kirk

[eddief]

of bike fanatics who own thousands of dollars worth of fine bikes and noone so far can even fart a fact in the direction of answering the question. i love this place.

[palincss]

i dunno if it's a valid comparison to take a fork with 45mm of rake and judge it with one
which has an additional 20mm atmo. also, the dropouts on the colnago are vertical to the
ground, as they should be for efficient wheel insertion; the touring fork has parts that lean
forward, a detail whose origins i am not to sure about. it all matters.


If fork blades were rigid and did not bend at the tip (but only at the fork crown/steerer, as some have argued on rec.bicycles.tech) what difference would the amount of fork rake make? It seems to me an additional 20mm could only make a difference if the fork did indeed bend at the tip. I'm not sure how the orientation of the dropouts would make a difference WRT bending at the fork tip, though.

[Chance]

Yes, there has to be some difference because two things that are not the same can’t be "identical". The only issue is to what degree they are different under varying circumstances. But most people know that already. The question is then whether you will feel or perceive the difference and not whether there is a difference.

PS: If there is a difference, please explain it to me without using any geometry formulas, algebraic equations or anything else that has to do with MATH!...Thanks.
Excluding math and its application in all forms basically limits feedback to opinions, doesn't it? Some experts say there is a difference and others say no. Obviously some experts must be wrong if they disagree. In order to move beyond personal opinions don’t you have to be open to math at some level? Without math how can anyone explain potential differences; not to mention trying to quantify them to see if they should matter?

Or you could just ask the Miss America contestants. :)

[David Kirk]

Ask :D MIke Lopez or David Kirk

This is the age old question isn't it? Here is what I know -

* the load path on a road fork falls on a line that pretty much goes straight from the front axle to the FCR (fork crown race). So as bumps/buzz are encountered they want to make the axle move up toward the FCR.

* forks also flex fore-aft. This can be seen by sitting on the bike, locking the front brake, and then rocking the bike back and forth. You'll see the blades flex back and forth. They are acting like a cantilevered beam - think diving board.

* so forks can move in two different ways - they compress end to end and they also flex fore-aft. In the real world, on the road, they combine these behaviors, to varying degrees, all the time......... a little of this and a lot of that or visa versa.

* A good comparison test can be done if you make two identical forks (same span and rake) using the same steerer/blades and tips and the only difference is that one crown is at 0° (requiring the blades to be curved to get the given rake) and the other is angled to allow a straight blade. I've done this test using a Henry James crown which is available in both styles so you can build two forks in which the only difference is the curve, or lack thereof, of the blades.

* since the load path puts the blades in an end-end compression they end up acting like a column. A straight blade does a very good job of acting like a column and it resists compression (think of a column that holds up your front porch). The curved blade becomes a curved column and works less well is resisting the end-end compression. Take something like a drinking straw and compress it end-end between your fingers - if the straw is straight it will resist the compression very well but once you put any curve into it it becomes noticeably softer. This is why buildings are built with straight and not curved columns holding them up.

* if you take the pair of test forks and test them under load for compression along the load path you will find they are different. For a given load the curved blade will flex more. Not a big surprise. If you test fore/aft flex at a given load they will be very much the same. This is because the effective length of the lever (or blade) is the same and the cross section of the tube is the same so they end up acting pretty much the same.

* so how does this affect the feel on the road? It depends. One can put the two different forks into a test rig and test them and plainly see the difference in both the numbers and the way the forks move under load. You can see the difference while it is happening on the plate in front of you. But can you feel the difference? I feel I can - at least when comparing the two otherwise identical forks. But frankly all bets are off if the straight fork is a Colnago and the curved is a Serotta. They will no doubt feel different but it's hard to tell why they feel different. It could be that the blades are different walls/tapers/lengths etc.......... It becomes all the more difficult to compare apples to apples if the forks are different materials - say a curved carbon fork compared to a straight steel.

* I think all things being equal a curved fork rides better as it absorbs road shock better - but all things are almost never equal. If you were to tell me Serotta offers both curved and straight forks out of the same materials and then ask me what I'd recommend I'd say the curved fork for sure. But they don't offer that and I can't think of anyone that does. I offer curved blades only because I feel I can make the best riding fork I can doing it this way.

* the last thing I consider is personal preference. I'll bet that if you were to make otherwise identical forks for 10 riders and then send them out on back to back test rides on the same bikes with just the forks swapped I'll bet some would prefer the straight fork. Some will like the additional road feel or vibration that a straight fork gives. Some folks like their tires with 150 psi in them too - that's just the way it works in my opinion. This doesn't make either fork better or worse - just different.

How's that for an answer? - it might be long but at least it's inconclusive.

Dave

[e-RICHIE]

If fork blades were rigid and did not bend at the tip (but only at the fork crown/steerer, as some have argued on rec.bicycles.tech) what difference would the amount of fork rake make? It seems to me an additional 20mm could only make a difference if the fork did indeed bend at the tip.
i was inferring that a comparison should at least be made with forks of two equal offsets, not with 45mm versus one with 65mm atmo. further to this, are you, steve, saying that you have had two like offset-ed forks, each with a different bend radius, and could feel the difference?
I'm not sure how the orientation of the dropouts would make a difference WRT bending at the fork tip, though.
it was an unrelated editorial comment.

ps

arrange disorder

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :)
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

[eddief]

thanks for the explanation.

Richard Schwinn offers both curved and straight bladed forks.

[rugbysecondrow]

I think we should let the ladies settle this.

Ladies, do you like it to be curved or straight?

[rice rocket]

Curved!

:eek:

[palincss]

further to this, are you, steve, saying that you have had two like offset-ed forks, each with a different bend radius, and could feel the difference?


No, I make no such claims. I would have no basis, since I have no personal experience at all with straight forks.

[e-RICHIE]

No, I make no such claims. I would have no basis, since I have no personal experience at all with straight forks.


reread my text - the question was not about straight blades; it was about two
forks having the same offset but with each set having a different radius atmo.
can you, steve, notice a difference?

ps

arrange disorder

:D :D :D
:D :D :D
;) :D :D

[palincss]

reread my text - the question was not about straight blades; it was about two
forks having the same offset but with each set having a different radius atmo.
can you, steve, notice a difference?


Again, no personal basis for comparison. But if you were going to notice a difference in that situation, it would surely be more evident in the most extreme case -- straight fork, i.e., one with no bend at all other than at the steerer, vs one with "French style bend" at the fork tip -- than with something in between.

However, BQ in the Spring 2008 issue (Vol. 6 No. 3) did some testing and -- if I recall correctly -- found a difference in the amount of bending at the tip for forks of the same offset but different bend. http://www.bikequarterly.com/BQ63.html Not positive about the article, though, it's been some time since I last read it.

[Rueda Tropical]

All things being equal I'd expect to measure more vertical flex with the fork on the right.

[redir]

Intuition tells me that the curved fork would absorb more shock. But then an ounce of intuition is worth a pound of tuition.

[e-RICHIE]

All things being equal I'd expect to measure more vertical flex with the fork on the right.


i think at the core of subjects like this is whether a user feels it rather than does he know about
it intellectually atmo. i maintain that it's an aesthetic choice for the user and a commercial one
for the maker.

ps

arrange disorder

;) ;) ;)
;) ;) ;)
;) ;) :rolleyes:

[Pete Serotta]

Appreciate your time with the forum and the value you provide. PETE

i think at the core of subjects like this is whether a user feels it rather than does he know about
it intellectually atmo. i maintain that it's an aesthetic choice for the user and a commercial one
for the maker.

ps

arrange disorder

;) ;) ;)
;) ;) ;)
;) ;) :rolleyes:

[Lionel]

This is the age old question isn't it? Here is what I know -

* the load path on a road fork falls on a line that pretty much goes straight from the front axle to the FCR (fork crown race). So as bumps/buzz are encountered they want to make the axle move up toward the FCR.

* forks also flex fore-aft. This can be seen by sitting on the bike, locking the front brake, and then rocking the bike back and forth. You'll see the blades flex back and forth. They are acting like a cantilevered beam - think diving board.

* so forks can move in two different ways - they compress end to end and they also flex fore-aft. In the real world, on the road, they combine these behaviors, to varying degrees, all the time......... a little of this and a lot of that or visa versa.

* A good comparison test can be done if you make two identical forks (same span and rake) using the same steerer/blades and tips and the only difference is that one crown is at 0° (requiring the blades to be curved to get the given rake) and the other is angled to allow a straight blade. I've done this test using a Henry James crown which is available in both styles so you can build two forks in which the only difference is the curve, or lack thereof, of the blades.

* since the load path puts the blades in an end-end compression they end up acting like a column. A straight blade does a very good job of acting like a column and it resists compression (think of a column that holds up your front porch). The curved blade becomes a curved column and works less well is resisting the end-end compression. Take something like a drinking straw and compress it end-end between your fingers - if the straw is straight it will resist the compression very well but once you put any curve into it it becomes noticeably softer. This is why buildings are built with straight and not curved columns holding them up.

* if you take the pair of test forks and test them under load for compression along the load path you will find they are different. For a given load the curved blade will flex more. Not a big surprise. If you test fore/aft flex at a given load they will be very much the same. This is because the effective length of the lever (or blade) is the same and the cross section of the tube is the same so they end up acting pretty much the same.

* so how does this affect the feel on the road? It depends. One can put the two different forks into a test rig and test them and plainly see the difference in both the numbers and the way the forks move under load. You can see the difference while it is happening on the plate in front of you. But can you feel the difference? I feel I can - at least when comparing the two otherwise identical forks. But frankly all bets are off if the straight fork is a Colnago and the curved is a Serotta. They will no doubt feel different but it's hard to tell why they feel different. It could be that the blades are different walls/tapers/lengths etc.......... It becomes all the more difficult to compare apples to apples if the forks are different materials - say a curved carbon fork compared to a straight steel.

* I think all things being equal a curved fork rides better as it absorbs road shock better - but all things are almost never equal. If you were to tell me Serotta offers both curved and straight forks out of the same materials and then ask me what I'd recommend I'd say the curved fork for sure. But they don't offer that and I can't think of anyone that does. I offer curved blades only because I feel I can make the best riding fork I can doing it this way.

* the last thing I consider is personal preference. I'll bet that if you were to make otherwise identical forks for 10 riders and then send them out on back to back test rides on the same bikes with just the forks swapped I'll bet some would prefer the straight fork. Some will like the additional road feel or vibration that a straight fork gives. Some folks like their tires with 150 psi in them too - that's just the way it works in my opinion. This doesn't make either fork better or worse - just different.

How's that for an answer? - it might be long but at least it's inconclusive.

Dave
Wow Dave, thanks for typing that. it may be inconclusive but it's really well thought out and explained.

[Pete Serotta]

Wow Dave, thanks for typing that. it may be inconclusive but it's really well thought out and explained.


and it would be less without him......... I hope to hoist drinks with him soon :beer: PETE

[Rueda Tropical]

Lots of things that can be measured in a lab can't always be felt on the road. But I think if you compare two extremes like 2 bikes with a trail of 50 and 25-28c tires but one with a straight blade and one with a fork with a low French curve - that is probably big enough a measurable difference to actually be felt in real world use.
i think at the core of subjects like this is whether a user feels it rather than does he know about
it intellectually atmo. i maintain that it's an aesthetic choice for the user and a commercial one
for the maker.

ps

arrange disorder

;) ;) ;)
;) ;) ;)
;) ;) :rolleyes:

[Doug Fattic]

It seems most preferred differences in the bicycle world are based on logic and reasoning or manufacturing ease and profit (and then marketed as an advantage) rather than empirical testing. And if major testing is done, it is from major companies that keep that information to themselves. We are like Greek philosophers debating subjects on the acropolis steps rather than making two options and trying them out on the road. And if we do test them out, any differences are decided by “feel” rather than data.

I remember the master builder I learned from in England, Jack Briggs, telling me the closer the curve of the rake was towards the bottom of the fork blade, the easier it would flex and absorb road shock. That seemed logical to me so I never asked him if that opinion was based on reasoning alone or if Ellis-Briggs did any testing of different fork rakes.

One of my earlier European made frames was a straight stay Hetchins. Later I got one with curly stays. I thought I could tell some difference. Maybe.

[e-RICHIE]

Lots of things that can be measured in a lab can't always be felt on the road. But I think if you compare two extremes like 2 bikes with a trail of 50 and 25-28c tires but one with a straight blade and one with a fork with a low French curve - that is probably big enough a measurable difference to actually be felt in real world use.


>>> of 50 and 25-28c tires but one with a straight blade
are there people actually making these atmo? also, i am assuming that you're making
a point about the curved fork in your post; that has to have 60mm of offset minimum.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:) :) :p

[witcombusa]

It seems most preferred differences in the bicycle world are based on logic and reasoning or manufacturing ease and profit (and then marketed as an advantage) rather than empirical testing. And if major testing is done, it is from major companies that keep that information to themselves. We are like Greek philosophers debating subjects on the acropolis steps rather than making two options and trying them out on the road. And if we do test them out, any differences are decided by “feel” rather than data.

I remember the master builder I learned from in England, Jack Briggs, telling me the closer the curve of the rake was towards the bottom of the fork blade, the easier it would flex and absorb road shock. That seemed logical to me so I never asked him if that opinion was based on reasoning alone or if Ellis-Briggs did any testing of different fork rakes.

One of my earlier European made frames was a straight stay Hetchins. Later I got one with curly stays. I thought I could tell some difference. Maybe.

If the fork blades were cut from the top thus leaving a longer run of the smaller diameter tube then it would flex more. This ain't rocket science here.
Assuming steel fork tubes of the same dia. and wall thickness the longer tube will always flex more. Since a straight tube is the shortest distance between the two points (crown to dropout) the curved fork will be longer. I am leaving out the obvious point of equal clearance beneath the crown or stating that identical tube cross sections are being used.

Bottom line is that either could be made stiffer or more flexible depending on the builders choices. Just choosing what blades to start with. How much to trim from which end? So many variables to let the artisan tune the ride to the cyclist delight.

[Rueda Tropical]

The curved blue fork does have an offset around 60. That is off a Terraferma Corsa GT. Mike also offers that model with a trail of 50 and a fork more like 52 offset (for 25-28c tires + no front load). That would be close but still more then the 43-45 of most straight blade forks.

I doubt you could find an apples to apples comparison in any production bikes.


>>> of 50 and 25-28c tires but one with a straight blade
are there people actually making these atmo? also, i am assuming that you're making
a point about the curved fork in your post; that has to have 60mm of offset minimum.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:) :) :p

[e-RICHIE]

The curved blue fork does have an offset around 60. That is off a Terraferma Corsa GT. Mike also offers that model with a trail of 50 and a fork more like 52 offset (for 25-28c tires + no front load). That would be close but still more then the 43-45 of most straight blade forks.

I doubt you could find an apples to apples comparison in any production bikes.

no - my point (question) was this: are there folks who are really making forks with that much offset and using straight blades atmo?

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:p :p :p
;) ;) :D

[Rueda Tropical]

I don't know of any.

no - my point (question) was this: are there folks who are really making forks with that much offset and using straight blades atmo?

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:p :p :p
;) ;) :D

[e-RICHIE]

I don't know of any.


right - that's why my comment that comparing a straight bladed fork that has 45mm of rake
with a curved one with 60mm is not a comparison at all atmo. it wouldn't help SoCalSteve
find an answer to his OP.

ps

arrange disorder

:D :D :D
:D :D :D
:D :D :cool:

[Rueda Tropical]

point taken.

A straight blade fork with sloping fork crown (like the Colnago) and flat fork crown and blade with low French curve. The curved blade / flat crown will be longer and flex more but at 45mm offset maybe not a noticable real world difference (especially with a shallower fork bend).

You could go with slacker head angle and bigger offset and get an even longer blade and bigger curve with the same trail for more flex but then you have a longer wheel base and front center which may or may not be good depending on your application. So I guess for the sort of bikes that straight blades are used on it maybe a case of more looks than function (curved or straight)

right - that's why my comment that comparing a straight bladed fork that has 45mm of rake
with a curved one with 60mm is not a comparison at all atmo. it wouldn't help SoCalSteve
find an answer to his OP.

ps

arrange disorder

:D :D :D
:D :D :D
:D :D :cool:

[ergott]

i maintain that it's an aesthetic choice for the user and a commercial one
for the maker.:

Has anyone ever requested a straight blade fork from you? Have you ever obliged?

[bicycletricycle]

can any frame builders say exactly how much shorter a set of straight blades is on an average road fork?

[e-RICHIE]

point taken.

A straight blade fork with sloping fork crown (like the Colnago) and flat fork crown and blade with low French curve. The curved blade / flat crown will be longer and flex more but at 45mm offset maybe not a noticable real world difference (especially with a shallower fork bend).

You could go with slacker head angle and bigger offset and get an even longer blade and bigger curve with the same trail for more flex but then you have a longer wheel base and front center which may or may not be good depending on your application. So I guess for the sort of bikes that straight blades are used on it maybe a case of more looks than function (curved or straight)


i think it's all looks (folks who arrived after the late 80s got used to colnago and all his copycats have different aesthetic sensibilities than others who remember how his fork really came into being...), and it's all function (both ways work well atmo). it boils down to what the market bears. at the end of the day, if someone can feel the difference and also say that, even blindfolded, he could tell which fork he had ridden, more power to that man. but to me, it reminds of Volant's (i think it was his) powerful comment about being a human mammographer.

can any frame builders say exactly how much shorter a set of straight blades is on an average road fork?
it's not shorter at all - the same offset and span makes it the same fork though with blades reaching the tips via a different route.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:D :) :)

[bobswire]

Originally Posted by witcombusa
Of course there is a difference, straight forks look like crap


I beg to differ.

Me Too!

http://i53.tinypic.com/2vmeb61.jpg

[Doug Fattic]

can any frame builders say exactly how much shorter a set of straight blades is on an average road fork?

i add about 5mm of length to a fork blade when it requires 45mm of rake. if the rake is 50mm the extra length is about 7mm.

[zank]

can any frame builders say exactly how much shorter a set of straight blades is on an average road fork?

With the crowns I use, the straight blade forks end up being about 3-4 mm shorter because of the way the caliper is canted out to follow the blades. For an average rake of 45 mm and the fork long enough so that the pads are at the bottom of the slots, a curved blade fork is around 365-366 mm and a straight blade fork is around 361-362 mm. The blade is also a couple of mm shorter due to the straight line.

For what it's worth, I took those two cross bikes referenced in the other thread from 07 (identical except for one fork was curved and the other was straight) out on the road with 23 mm tires (same wheels switched over) and I couldn't tell a bit of difference. I gave each of them a very fair shake and tried to find areas that might make any differences noticeable. We have some really bad pavement around here, so it wasn't difficult to do. It all felt the same to me. On the trail with fat tires at low pressures, it was the same.

Go with what makes you want to get out and ride.

[witcombusa]

Originally Posted by witcombusa
Of course there is a difference, straight forks look like crap




Me Too!

http://i53.tinypic.com/2vmeb61.jpg

So long as you are happy with it is all that matters...

[Chance]

I remember the master builder I learned from in England, Jack Briggs, telling me the closer the curve of the rake was towards the bottom of the fork blade, the easier it would flex and absorb road shock. That seemed logical to me so I never asked him if that opinion was based on reasoning alone or if Ellis-Briggs did any testing of different fork rakes.


Makes a lot of sense for two reasons. The finished fork is slightly longer which will flex slightly more. Also, more load is placed on the thinner end of the fork blades causing them to deflect more. It seems so obvious that lab testing would be wasteful unless the amount of difference was to be measured for some reason.

[Chance]

All things being equal I'd expect to measure more vertical flex with the fork on the right.
If vertical “flex” is indeed good and was an important objective then we’d all be riding carbon forks. When was the last time someone marketed a carbon frame with a steel fork? We see carbon forks on ti, aluminum, carbon and steel frames but the opposite is not so common. And it’s not entirely due to cost. If the decision was strictly based on performance and ride quality then we’d have to expect many more carbon bikes with steel forks or steel frames with carbon forks. Unless someone can show why a steel frame benefits more from a steel fork than frames made of other materials we can safely conclude forks are specified and purchased based on aesthetics or some other expectation.

[e-RICHIE]

If vertical “flex” is indeed good and was an important objective then we’d all be riding carbon forks. When was the last time someone marketed a carbon frame with a steel fork? We see carbon forks on ti, aluminum, carbon and steel frames but the opposite is not so common. And it’s not entirely due to cost. If the decision was strictly based on performance and ride quality then we’d have to expect many more carbon bikes with steel forks or steel frames with carbon forks. Unless someone can show why a steel frame benefits more from a steel fork than frames made of other materials we can safely conclude forks are specified and purchased based on aesthetics or some other expectation.


if you can for a moment take the hand-made niche out of the equation (owing to the infinitesimal numbers we produce in the scheme of things atmo...) the reason you see the fork you do see as often as you do is because, in the industry, the part has become an aftermarket accessory that is no longer a driver for folks who manufacture frames en masse (that's french...). all of this is a stepchild to the post MTB era when that market tanked and big makers veered into the road market they knew far less about. while conventions and styles simultaneously broke down and changed, one result is that now forks are bought from a fork vendor. it's cheaper, more profitable, and easier to market when these vendors choose a nonferrous material. the problem - for lack of a better word - is that the framebuilding niche falls prey to this and many folks on the left side of the evolutionary timeline came into the trade without even knowing they could supply the forks too, since the parts all seem to come from 4-5 big macher (yiddish...) vendors who have made the market.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool: :cool: :cool:
:cool: :cool: :cool:
:rolleyes: ;) :cool:

[happycampyer]

With the crowns I use, the straight blade forks end up being about 3-4 mm shorter because of the way the caliper is canted out to follow the blades. For an average rake of 45 mm and the fork long enough so that the pads are at the bottom of the slots, a curved blade fork is around 365-366 mm and a straight blade fork is around 361-362 mm. The blade is also a couple of mm shorter due to the straight line.

For what it's worth, I took those two cross bikes referenced in the other thread from 07 (identical except for one fork was curved and the other was straight) out on the road with 23 mm tires (same wheels switched over) and I couldn't tell a bit of difference. I gave each of them a very fair shake and tried to find areas that might make any differences noticeable. We have some really bad pavement around here, so it wasn't difficult to do. It all felt the same to me. On the trail with fat tires at low pressures, it was the same.

Go with what makes you want to get out and ride.Oh well, Mike, there goes your second career as a human mammographer. ;)

[zank]

Practice makes better. I'd be willing to practice.

[erolorhun]

I am fond of the functionalistic, pragmatic look of straight blades. Like so:
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m338/erolorhun/11-09-04031.jpg

[palincss]

"Say, man, how'd that fork get bent that way? Drive into your garage with the bike on a roof rack?"

;)

[Chance]

if you can for a moment take the hand-made niche out of the equation (owing to the infinitesimal numbers we produce in the scheme of things atmo...) the reason you see the fork you do see as often as you do is because, in the industry, the part has become an aftermarket accessory that is no longer a driver for folks who manufacture frames en masse (that's french...). all of this is a stepchild to the post MTB era when that market tanked and big makers veered into the road market they knew far less about. while conventions and styles simultaneously broke down and changed, one result is that now forks are bought from a fork vendor. it's cheaper, more profitable, and easier to market when these vendors choose a nonferrous material. the problem - for lack of a better word - is that the framebuilding niche falls prey to this and many folks on the left side of the evolutionary timeline came into the trade without even knowing they could supply the forks too, since the parts all seem to come from 4-5 big macher (yiddish...) vendors who have made the market.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool: :cool: :cool:
:cool: :cool: :cool:
:rolleyes: ;) :cool:
The cost rationality is hard to follow because steel forks can be made as cheap as any when mass produced. China and Taiwan could crank those out for $20 to $50 easily which would put them in direct competition with cheap carbon forks. Just look at big box retailers selling $200 bikes. There is almost no practical limit to cheap anything (carbon or steel). And if steel forks offered improved ride and other performance advantages at the other end of the spectrum expensive carbon frames that often cost above $3,000 could be specified and built with expensive handmade custom steel forks. No doubt cost plays a role in many decisions but it doesn’t explain why steel frames end up mostly with steel forks and carbon frames end up with carbon forks. If there were tangible advantages $200 or so either way wouldn’t stop most cyclists from buying what they want.

The question of curved versus straight blades seems meaningless to discuss anyway without taking into account a myriad of other factors that make bigger differences.

[e-RICHIE]

The cost rationality is hard to follow because steel forks can be made as cheap as any when mass produced. China and Taiwan could crank those out for $20 to $50 easily which would put them in direct competition with cheap carbon forks. Just look at big box retailers selling $200 bikes. There is almost no practical limit to cheap anything (carbon or steel). And if steel forks offered improved ride and other performance advantages at the other end of the spectrum expensive carbon frames that often cost above $3,000 could be specified and built with expensive handmade custom steel forks. No doubt cost plays a role in many decisions but it doesn’t explain why steel frames end up mostly with steel forks and carbon frames end up with carbon forks. If there were tangible advantages $200 or so either way wouldn’t stop most cyclists from buying what they want.
i guess we'll have to disagree atmo. i think of expensive carbon forks from taiwan and china costing the $20 to $50 you cite above.

The question of curved versus straight blades seems meaningless to discuss anyway without taking into account a myriad of other factors that make bigger differences.
that could have been the first reply to SoCalSteve. he started the thread and is also a mod here.

ps

arrange disaster

:D :D :D
:o :o :o
:p :p :p

[Peter B]

The cost rationality is hard to follow because steel forks can be made as cheap as any when mass produced. China and Taiwan could crank those out for $20 to $50 easily which would put them in direct competition with cheap carbon forks. Just look at big box retailers selling $200 bikes. There is almost no practical limit to cheap anything (carbon or steel). And if steel forks offered improved ride and other performance advantages at the other end of the spectrum expensive carbon frames that often cost above $3,000 could be specified and built with expensive handmade custom steel forks. No doubt cost plays a role in many decisions but it doesn’t explain why steel frames end up mostly with steel forks and carbon frames end up with carbon forks. If there were tangible advantages $200 or so either way wouldn’t stop most cyclists from buying what they want.

The question of curved versus straight blades seems meaningless to discuss anyway without taking into account a myriad of other factors that make bigger differences.


The reason you don't see mass produced steel forks on 'performance oriented' bikes has more to do with marketing and buyer perceptions than performance. The primary quantifiable difference is weight. Carbon forks are generally 1lb lighter and we have been told lighter is better. Carbon can be shaped in cool ways to match the visual appeal of the latest FEA-influenced frame, again appealing to consumer perceptions. Does the Pinarello superslide shape really make the fork outperform steel (straight or curved) or any other carbon design?

I do agree with your last statement, however the OP specifically phrased his question in a way that attempted to isolate to this one variable.

To paraphrase ATMO, the bicycle is the bicycle. ATMO.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

To paraphrase ATMO, the bicycle is the bicycle. ATMO.

And the fork is the fork...... I love tautologies.

[SoCalSteve]

The reason you don't see mass produced steel forks on 'performance oriented' bikes has more to do with marketing and buyer perceptions than performance. The primary quantifiable difference is weight. Carbon forks are generally 1lb lighter and we have been told lighter is better. Carbon can be shaped in cool ways to match the visual appeal of the latest FEA-influenced frame, again appealing to consumer perceptions. Does the Pinarello superslide shape really make the fork outperform steel (straight or curved) or any other carbon design?

I do agree with your last statement, however the OP specifically phrased his question in a way that attempted to isolate to this one variable.

To paraphrase ATMO, the bicycle is the bicycle. ATMO.

Maybe I should have been more specific as what I had in mind was VERY specific...

That being a Serotta F3 curved fork, 43mm rake, 8.5 stiffness...comparing it to an Enve 2.0 straight bladed fork with the same 43mm rake.

I had no idea this would cause such a ruckus! But, maybe that's a good thing as it got people thinking, talking and NOT using much math... :crap:

Thanks for all the responses...I still feel like there is no definitive answer... :confused:

[ergott]

Maybe I should have been more specific as what I had in mind was VERY specific...

That being a Serotta F3 curved fork, 43mm rake, 8.5 stiffness...comparing it to an Enve 2.0 straight bladed fork with the same 43mm rake.


The carbon layup differences will be the biggest differences between the two.

[DHallerman]

Interestingly, when seated, a compact frame feels exactly like a traditional design. The compact design has no effect on handling beyond the increases responsiveness during climbing and accelerating.

Fascinating.

Is that why my only road bike with a compact design -- a steel Burley, with a straight-blade Alpha-Q carbon fork -- is my best climbing bike?

The Burley may not be my lightest road bike (although on the light side in my collection), but I tend to climb hills best on that one.

[e-RICHIE]

Maybe I should have been more specific as what I had in mind was VERY specific...

That being a Serotta F3 curved fork, 43mm rake, 8.5 stiffness...comparing it to an Enve 2.0 straight bladed fork with the same 43mm rake.


you're a mod, here - on the serotta forum. get the serotta fork atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:cool: :cool: :cool:
:D :D :D

[SoCalSteve]

you're a mod, here - on the serotta forum. get the serotta fork atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:cool: :cool: :cool:
:D :D :D

I have a few Serotta forks and few Serotta bikes. Was thinking of branching out a bit. I'm sure Ben and company will understand!

[rounder]

To paraphrase ATMO, the bicycle is the bicycle. ATMO.[/QUOTE]

I thought it was the frame is the frame. I want to get one of those shirts.

[Frankwurst]

Maybe I should have been more specific as what I had in mind was VERY specific...

I had no idea this would cause such a ruckus!

Thanks for all the responses...I still feel like there is no definitive answer... :confused:

I don't believe you caused a ruckus but rather, were the stimulus for an interesting conversation for which there seems to be no definitve answer. That's what makes it interesting. :beer:

[jbay]

I'm late to the party, but I have a couple of random comments/observations to throw in:

A straight blade fork with sloping fork crown (like the Colnago) and flat fork crown and blade with low French curve.[...]While a certain magazine may have you believe otherwise, French framebuilders did not have exclusive rights on curves low in the fork blade. For example:

Gillott (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Gillot/Gillot_PN.html)
Colnago track bike (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Italian/Colnago/59_pista/full_rh.html)

Also, more load is placed on the thinner end of the fork blades causing them to deflect more. It seems so obvious that lab testing would be wasteful unless the amount of difference was to be measured for some reason.For something so obvious, I think you have cause and effect reversed. A fork blade is smaller in cross section at the dropout end because the stress experienced there is much smaller than at the fork crown. Where do fork blades fail? At the rear of the fork blade, at the fork crown, because that is where the highest loads are seen.

[shankldu]

I like strait blades as well, they look more modern, to each his own.

[Villgaxx]

I'm late to the party, but I have a couple of random comments/observations to throw in:

While a certain magazine may have you believe otherwise, French framebuilders did not have exclusive rights on curves low in the fork blade. For example:

Gillott (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Gillot/Gillot_PN.html)
Colnago track bike (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Italian/Colnago/59_pista/full_rh.html)

For something so obvious, I think you have cause and effect reversed. A fork blade is smaller in cross section at the dropout end because the forces experienced there are much smaller than at the fork crown. Where do fork blades fail? At the rear of the fork blade, at the fork crown, because that is where the highest loads are seen.

many times when this flexy fork blade/straight vs. curved discussion flares up, frame builders and frame painters amongst others speak up and say that if those long, low, extreme french fork blades were flexing, you would see the paint crack on the curvy part in normal use, and you don't so...

pointy-headed engineer types say the fork blade is a cantilevered beam and flexes (mostly) at the anchor point i.e. the fork crown.

[palincss]

Bicycle Quarterly Spring 2008 (Vol 6 No 3), p. 24 "Measuring the Flex of Fork Blades"

It's pretty clear the pointy heads are wrong in this case.

[e-RICHIE]

[cut] pointy-headed engineer types say the fork blade is a cantilevered beam and flexes (mostly) at the anchor point i.e. the fork crown.
Bicycle Quarterly Spring 2008 (Vol 6 No 3), p. 24 "Measuring the Flex of Fork Blades"

It's pretty clear the pointy heads are wrong in this case.

i thought the writing staff there was comprised of engineer types atmo?

ps

arrange disorder

;) ;) ;)
:p :p :p
:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Villgaxx]

Bicycle Quarterly Spring 2008 (Vol 6 No 3), p. 24 "Measuring the Flex of Fork Blades"

It's pretty clear the pointy heads are wrong in this case.

where's the paint damage, then?

i read that article online a while ago, but iirc, there was no measurement of flex, only measurement of fork blades and rakes along with heine's opinions and subjective feelings. i guess it's possible the version i read was incomplete. however, most pointy-headed dweebs would not agree with heine. engineering doesn't change just cuz he's currently got an alex singer fetish.

[Chance]

For something so obvious, I think you have cause and effect reversed. A fork blade is smaller in cross section at the dropout end because the forces experienced there are much smaller than at the fork crown. Where do fork blades fail? At the rear of the fork blade, at the fork crown, because that is where the highest loads are seen.
What exactly are you disagreeing with? How can you disagree on the basis of cause and effect when no such claim was made?

Why a builder builds a fork a certain way is irrelevant as to what it will do. It will deflect based on what it actually is and not on what someone thought it should do or wanted it to do. How it deflects also has little to do with how it may or may not fail.

It’s obvious you are disagreeing but not so much why?

[Louis]

pointy-headed engineer types say the fork blade is a cantilevered beam and flexes (mostly) at the anchor point i.e. the fork crown.

I agree that that's where the moment is greatest, but I decreases as you move toward the tip, so it's not quite that simple.

(I don't think I'm pointed-headed, but I may at times act that way...)

[jbay]

What exactly are you disagreeing with?I disagreed with what I quoted. Pardon the repetition, but that was:Also, more load is placed on the thinner end of the fork blades causing them to deflect more. It seems so obvious that lab testing would be wasteful unless the amount of difference was to be measured for some reason.When riding, a load, or force, is applied to the dropouts. However, the stress (force per unit area) seen at the lower end of the fork blade is low. Therefore, the lower end of the fork blade can be made of small diameter ("thinner") tubing.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying the opposite.

[jbay]

However, BQ in the Spring 2008 issue (Vol. 6 No. 3) did some testing and -- if I recall correctly -- found a difference in the amount of bending at the tip for forks of the same offset but different bend. http://www.bikequarterly.com/BQ63.html Not positive about the article, though, it's been some time since I last read it.That article compared four forks on "several bikes":

(1) a "heavy" gauge Kogswell curved fork with a large offset.
(2) a "heavy" gauge Kogswell curved fork with less offset.
(3) a "lighter" gauge Kogswell curved fork with the same offset as (2) but with a bend closer to the dropouts.
(4) an Alex Singer fork with beaucoup d'offset on its curved blades.

The article doesn't mention the steerer tube diameter but it's probably safe to assume a 1-1/8" steerer on the Kogswell fork and a 1" steerer on the Singer fork.

Fork (4) was the most flexible.
Fork (3) was next.
Forks (1) and (2) were quite similar, with (1) being slightly more flexible.

From that, I think it's reasonable to deduce that:

(a) some forks are more flexible than others
(b) light gauge forks are more flexible than their heavy gauge peers and
(c) longer forks (i.e. those with more offset) are more flexible than shorter ones.

However, with regard to the shape and placement of the bend, there was no apples-to-apples comparison made, so no conclusion can be drawn.

[bicycletricycle]

If this thread was started by someone else I bet socalsteve would have locked it already.

[happycampyer]

If this thread was started by someone else I bet socalsteve would have locked it already.The funny thing is that he wasn't even intending to reopen this debate, but was pondering the difference between the F3 and the Enve 2.0! Go figure.

[palincss]

That article compared four forks on "several bikes":
<snip>
Fork (4) was the most flexible.
Fork (3) was next.
Forks (1) and (2) were quite similar, with (1) being slightly more flexible.

From that, I think it's reasonable to deduce that:

(a) some forks are more flexible than others
(b) light gauge forks are more flexible than their heavy gauge peers and
(c) longer forks (i.e. those with more offset) are more flexible than shorter ones.

However, with regard to the shape and placement of the bend, there was no apples-to-apples comparison made, so no conclusion can be drawn.

Other conclusions can be drawn: that bending did indeed occur, that it was not confined to the steerer/fork crown junction, and no paint was cracked while all this bending was going on, contrary to assertions attributed to "pointy-headed engineers." (I've seen those conclusions in print on rec.bicycles.tech, and I think it's likely that many of the posters are indeed pointy-headed, but many have their heads so far up their a$$es it's really impossible to tell if they're actually engineers or just play them on the internet.)

[Rueda Tropical]

i read that article online a while ago, but iirc, there was no measurement of flex, only measurement of fork blades and rakes along with heine's opinions and subjective feelings. i guess it's possible the version i read was incomplete. however, most pointy-headed dweebs would not agree with heine. engineering doesn't change just cuz he's currently got an alex singer fetish.

Actually he set up a rig with a weight and measured the deflection. He used a load of 64 ibs. and in a second test a load of 101.5 lbs versus no load. The differences were quite large.


where's the paint damage, then?


As someone else pointed out bikes flex all over and I've never heard of the paint flaking off of even the noodliest of bikes because of flex. Motorcycles vibrate even more, automotive paints don't easily crack from flex and vibration. I've seen forks re-raked without damaging the paint.

[Rueda Tropical]

While a certain magazine may have you believe otherwise, French framebuilders did not have exclusive rights on curves low in the fork blade.

A certain magazine has never made that claim and has published many pictures of English and Italian bikes with low large offset bends. However now a days that bend is associated with French inspired Rando bikes so you often hear it referred to as a French bend.

Coppi's Bianchi:

[Villgaxx]

Actually he set up a rig with a weight and measured the deflection. He used a load of 64 ibs. and in a second test a load of 101.5 lbs versus no load. The differences were quite large.



As someone else pointed out bikes flex all over and I've never heard of the paint flaking off of even the noodliest of bikes because of flex. Motorcycles vibrate even more, automotive paints don't easily crack from flex and vibration. I've seen forks re-raked without damaging the paint.

2 things: that test as described is not good science. he was not testing otherwise identical forks with the only difference being the bend (or not) in the blade.

and: frames do flex all over the place but only a fork is a cantilvered beam, and that kind of movement would be many many orders of magnitude higher than for example the bottom bracket or head tube or rear dropouts. if you rerake a fork 100,000 times i bet you get paint cracks.

neither of your examples was a valid, apples to apples comparison.

[Chance]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying the opposite.
No, you don't understand the proper meaning of the post at all.

The post was in reference to which fork has more flex in the vertical direction: one with the curve lower or higher.

Stress and possible failure as you brought up has little to do with flex because it's dependent on so many other factors. They are related but not dependent.

A curve higher up on the fork makes the fork act more like straight blades compared to one with fairly straight blades most of the way down and then having sudden curve near the dropouts. This is a math-less thread so it's not worth getting into why that's the case. It just is.

[Villgaxx]

irregardless (sic) of anyone's particular fetish, it's fair to say that straight-bladed steel forks were used to make it quicker and cheaper to make forks in a factory setting, and that they look cool. they also look kinda like a weapon so they must be harsher riding.

it's also fair to say that those long, loopy bends on some of those french-style bikes look really classic and proper on those bikes, and they look very springy so they must give more shock absorption than any other fork.

so if you got a fork that's working for ya', it must be the best fork ever.

[Louis]

and that they look cool.

Including Wound-Up forks? :p

[merckx]

In most States now it is legal for curved folks to marry where it has always been legal for straight folks. Is there anything else to discuss?

[e-RICHIE]

forks are interesting, 'cause, you know, it's - it's a new art form,
and a, uh, a set of aesthetic criteria have not emerged yet atmo.

http://www.cinemaaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/anniehall_300x29812349317121.jpg

ps

arrange disorder

:eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek:

[happycampyer]

forks are interesting, 'cause, you know, it's - it's a new art form,
and a, uh, a set of aesthetic criteria have not emerged yet atmo.

http://www.cinemaaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/anniehall_300x29812349317121.jpg

ps

arrange disorder

:eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek:I wonder what that fork looks like unpainted?

[rounder]

My unscientific observation is that it is all about aesthetics. I have two bikes with curved forks and two bikes with straight forks. They all were made by the builders and they all handle reasonably well (definitely beyond the limit that i could make them go). I think they all look good.

[bigbill]

I have two road bikes. One is a Pegoretti Big Leg Emma with a Reynolds carbon fork. The other is a custom Argonaut built with Max stays and a Max straight blade fork. If I didn't look down, the only way I would know I was on the Argonaut is that it has more spring to it. Otherwise, they handle the same.