Question on v brakes...

[picstloup]

Will shimano xt v brakes work with old shimano 600 road brake levers?...

over ten years ago I used these 600 brake levers with the old xt mountain brakes, the ones that are center pull, and wasn't thrilled with the stopping power...wondered if v brakes would be better...

there was something i read a long time ago about cable pull, etc...affecting the brakes, road levers/mountain brakes...

thanks for help on this...

[Peter P.]

That's right; road levers don't usually pull sufficient cable to provide adequate stopping power when paired with cantilever or V-brakes.

If you're not using integrated brake/shift levers, you can get V-brake specific brake levers for your setup. Your other alternative is to get a Travel Agent (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BR409Z01-Problem+Solvers+Travel+Agent.aspx) which will allow you to run STI, etc. with V's and cantis.

[Germany_chris]

That's right; road levers don't usually pull sufficient cable to provide adequate stopping power when paired with cantilever or V-brakes.

If you're not using integrated brake/shift levers, you can get V-brake specific brake levers for your setup. Your other alternative is to get a Travel Agent (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BR409Z01-Problem+Solvers+Travel+Agent.aspx) which will allow you to run STI, etc. with V's and cantis.

Road levers work fine with canti's (cyclocrss) but don't work with standard V's.

[veloduffer]

You need to switch to mini-V brakes, like the Tektro CX-9 and the like. They work fine with regular road brake levers, as they need less pull, and you get the same good stopping power. Plus, alot easier to set up than cantis. I use them on my cross bikes.

The downside: wheel changes more difficult since the brakes have to be close to the rim. If you use large knobbies, it might require deflating the tire some to get enough clearance.

[picstloup]

You need to switch to mini-V brakes, like the Tektro CX-9 and the like. They work fine with regular road brake levers, as they need less pull, and you get the same good stopping power. Plus, alot easier to set up than cantis. I use them on my cross bikes.

The downside: wheel changes more difficult since the brakes have to be close to the rim. If you use large knobbies, it might require deflating the tire some to get enough clearance.

these look really interesting, but expensive...anything less costly but with the same or similar function?...

i use very thin road tires, 1" hutchinsons, on a rivendell all 'rounder, for city and light trails, so not worried about the wheel changes...but the cantilevers just don't have the stopping power i remember having on my cannondole mountain bike with normal levers, not road...it had xt or deore canti's...

[Germany_chris]

these look really interesting, but expensive...anything less costly but with the same or similar function?...

i use very thin road tires, 1" hutchinsons, on a rivendell all 'rounder, for city and light trails, so not worried about the wheel changes...but the cantilevers just don't have the stopping power i remember having on my cannondole mountain bike with normal levers, not road...it had xt or deore canti's...

I had mini v's on my cross bike/all arounder and they were GREAT!!

[Chance]

these look really interesting, but expensive...anything less costly but with the same or similar function?...

i use very thin road tires, 1" hutchinsons, on a rivendell all 'rounder, for city and light trails, so not worried about the wheel changes...but the cantilevers just don't have the stopping power i remember having on my cannondole mountain bike with normal levers, not road...it had xt or deore canti's...
Tektro also makes lower cost mini-Vs. Original Tektros were all inexpensive. Many are or were also shorter than the CX-9 which requires less cable pull to close. Shorter arms don’t provide as much fat tire clearance but should be plenty for a 1-inch tire. Brake pads on cheap models are not as good as on CX-9 but easy to replace if you need more braking.

[veloduffer]

these look really interesting, but expensive...anything less costly but with the same or similar function?...

i use very thin road tires, 1" hutchinsons, on a rivendell all 'rounder, for city and light trails, so not worried about the wheel changes...but the cantilevers just don't have the stopping power i remember having on my cannondole mountain bike with normal levers, not road...it had xt or deore canti's...

Look at the Tektro RX 5 mini, about $17 each or $34/set. Note, Tektro and TRP are the same company; TRP means Tektro Racing Products and produces their higher end stuff like the CX-9, which has some titanium hardware to justify cost/weight.

[Gummee]

While the v-brakes will work with road levers, the pull is way spongy and well... kinda 'off.' IOW you always have to be careful that you're not grabbing too much cause they go from 'not enough' to 'too much' quickly.

I've done it but I wouldn't recommend it.

M

[picstloup]

Look at the Tektro RX 5 mini, about $17 each or $34/set. Note, Tektro and TRP are the same company; TRP means Tektro Racing Products and produces their higher end stuff like the CX-9, which has some titanium hardware to justify cost/weight.

oh, oh, these will do...i wonder, how efficient compared to the model, cx-9, that's like 100 dollars more money...

but honest, i'm not racing in the mud, well, some days it feels like i am, but i'm not on the bike :D

[bfd]

Tektro also makes lower cost mini-Vs. Original Tektros were all inexpensive. Many are or were also shorter than the CX-9 which requires less cable pull to close. Shorter arms don’t provide as much fat tire clearance but should be plenty for a 1-inch tire. Brake pads on cheap models are not as good as on CX-9 but easy to replace if you need more braking.

Agree, I recently did this "upgrade." I had been running Suntour xc pro canti brakes with Campy ergo shifters. Terrible combo. Braking power was minimal, fork shuddered and chattered. I installed koolstop salmon pads and that didn't help. Adjusted toe-in, that helped, but I was constantly adjusting them and still had poor braking power.

Finally decided to "upgrade" to Tektro mini-v brakes. I was looking at the TRP CX-9 brakes. But then I saw this review:

http://bikehabit.blogspot.com/2010/10/trp-cx9-and-tektro-926-mini-v-brakes.html

For about $100 less, you get basically the same performance from the Tektro 926 as its more expensive cousin. The 926 weighs the same and when you factor in shipping, my LBS sold it *cheaper* than online! ($20 versus $24).

So far, I only did the front brake, but set up was easy and the brake works great. Although I have to admit to feeling the pads fading when braking. I may *upgrade* to some kool stop pads in the future.

The one issue I have is the mini-v is a short brake, so it sits on top of my fender. Not good and I do feel a small bit of friction, but it works.

If you really must use a standard v-brake with your road lever, then you'll need to use a travel agent adapter to take up the cable slack. Get the tektro 926 and save! Good Luck!

[Chance]

While the v-brakes will work with road levers, the pull is way spongy and well... kinda 'off.' IOW you always have to be careful that you're not grabbing too much cause they go from 'not enough' to 'too much' quickly.

I've done it but I wouldn't recommend it.

M
Sheldon Brown wrote about that “spongy” feeling being due to brake levers not having enough cable pull which results in too much stopping power, not too little as previously mentioned. The main and only critical concern with too little cable pull is bottoming out brake levers and not being able to apply more brakes beyond that. To avoid bottoming levers mini-V brakes are often set up with very little pad to rim clearance which works OK as long as wheels are straight. Feel is not quite the same with mini-Vs (or shorty direct-pull as Brown calls them) because they are not fully comparable to road calipers when used with brifters. That should be expected. For feel to be similar the arms would have to be approximately 1/2 as long as standard V-brakes and they are not.


Drop-bar Workarounds
If you want to use Ergo or STI brifters with direct-pull cantis, there are two workarounds available:
•You can use a pulley-device, such as the QBP Travel Agent (Q.B.P. Photo). These are a bit of a hassle to set up, but do work. Any pulley of the small diameter commonly used on bicycles eventually leads to fatigue failure of the cable, so check the cable regularly for fraying.
•If you have a bike with skinny tires and no fenders, there are "shorty" direct-pull cantis that are more-or-less compatible with drop bar levers.
Neither of these systems is ideal, and neither is really any better than traditional center-pull cantilevers.

http://sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html

[bfd]

Sheldon Brown wrote about that “spongy” feeling being due to brake levers not having enough cable pull which results in too much stopping power, not too little as previously mentioned. The main and only critical concern with too little cable pull is bottoming out brake levers and not being able to apply more brakes beyond that. To avoid bottoming levers mini-V brakes are often set up with very little pad to rim clearance which works OK as long as wheels are straight. Feel is not quite the same with mini-Vs (or shorty direct-pull as Brown calls them) because they are not fully comparable to road calipers when used with brifters. That should be expected. For feel to be similar the arms would have to be approximately 1/2 as long as standard V-brakes and they are not.

One thing that Sheldon's article doesn't appear to address is brake shudder/chatter. With Canti brakes, I had massive amount of brake shudder/chatter. Adjusting the toe-in on the brake pads helped, but was a short term help and needed constant attention. Putting on a mini-v brake in the front stopped the shuddering and chattering.

Note, I might have been able to use a lower cable hanger like this one to stop the chattering:

http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/cable-hanger-frame-mount/15-089

However, for only $20, the mini-v works great.

I will agree that brake feel is softer than standard caliper brakes, but I can still stop.

I will admit that mini-v brakes are not compatible with some fenders like the Soma brand ones I use. It works, but the brake cable sits on top of the fender because I can't get the fender low enough. Works, but I do feel some friction.

Also, the pads on the cheap tektro are not very good as I can feel the brake fading. Still, for about the 1/2price of the brake, I can *upgrade* to some fancier kool stops that do work. Good Luck!