.

[cat6]

The Gateway District is a large open air retail, residential and office complex in Salt Lake City, Utah, United States. The complex is centered around the historic Union Pacific Depot in downtown Salt Lake City. It currently contains over 105 stores and restaurants.

[palincss]

I tried friction shifting Hyperglide 8 and found it disappointing due to too many ghost shifts. I am using the same shifters on Hyperglide 7 and love it, no ghost shifts. I believe it's because the difference is the wider spacing of the 7 speed.

Now as to why some in Riv-world prefer 7 speed freewheels, that's a different story having a lot to do with the quest for dishless wheels. Some believe dishless is very important. Others don't care.

[Gummee]

I started riding on 6sp FWs. Then 7, then 8, then well you get the idea.

IMO the shifts on a 7sp cluster are about perfect IF you're not racing. Them 2-tooth jumps seem about right for JRA.

M

[Frankwurst]

I friction 9 all the time on my Atlantis, 8 on my RB-T and 7 on an older Riv. It's all good. :beer:

[dlbracey]

I've run 8 and 9 speed friction without any problems, you do have to be precise with your shifts. I've got a like new 8 speed cassette I could sell you for $20 if you are interested. Good luck with the build. I love my a homer hilsen.

[Louis]

you do have to be precise with your shifts

I gave up on 9-spd friction for this very reason. I spent too much time trimming. 6-spd is no big deal. 9-spd was a hassle, and retro-grouch that I am, I had to admit that indexed is better. For me. YMMV

[bigflax925]

I'm all about friction. For me, seven speed (and 8, too) friction is sublime. I like indexing, too; don't get me wrong. But there's just something about the art of friction shifting that I really enjoy.

As Steve mentioned, a lot of folks are in search of a dishless wheel. I have also heard that the seven speed freewheel hub/spacing is stronger and less likely to bend or break an axle...

...Besides not having to worry about mixing and matching components, housing lengths or cable tension. The beauty is it all works.

In my Rivendell "family" I've got three (soon to be two) and a Heron that are all friction. I wouldn't have them any other way.

[stephenmarklay]

I have the same feeling Gummee. I think the point and click many cog systems work well for racing. The one tooth jumps are nice.

I have been doing about 100 miles a week on my 6 speed friction Schwinn and I have no desire for more cogs in that environment. I have a fast little one and a big climbing one. Actually I find that I leave the it on the middle two almost always and shift the in the front as much as the rear.

Now friction in the front I do like. I never worry about dropping a chain. Engagement is great (a lot less grief than my SRAM front end)

The new, to me, RB-1 is going 7!

[froze]

I like both friction and index, but I give the nod to friction because it can't go out of adjustment except for the hi and lo adjustment, with index it has to be adjusted right on or it will shift like crap if at all.

Index is a tad faster though, but Suntour Superbe Tech system gives it a run for it's money, my Tech derailleur snaps gears even when climbing mountains, yeah occasionally I screw a shift up by moving the lever a tad to far or not enough but once your use to it you can grab gears right on most of the time, but I've had index do that too once in awhile.

If your thinking about a 8 speed freewheel stay far away from those, they had issues with the hubs snapping, but 7 or less is fine. I personally like the 7 speed but have bikes with 6 as well. The wider chains used on the older freewheel systems last far longer then the newer narrower chains found on cassette systems today. And the gear teeth on the older freewheels wear far longer. On the forums I visit the average life expectancy of a chain and cassette seems to be 3,000 to 4,000 miles (though on my newer bike I've gotten a bit more), whereas with the freewheel system 12,000 miles is about average (again I tend to get a bit more).

More gears doesn't mean a darn thing, I use to race the mountains of So Calif with just a 10 speed had no desire for more. The more gears just allow you to stay in a higher rpm longer but they don't give you any lower or higher gearing just more choices in between.

IRD currently makes the best freewheels on the market if your interested, or you can go on E-Bay and find new in a box vintage brands of freewheels.

All in all I think the old school friction systems are far more reliable.

[cp43]

You can still buy 7 speed cassettes. My vote would be to get a 135mm cassette hub, and try running 9spd friction. If it's too much of a hassle, get a 7 speed cassette, and try that. You just need a spacer behind the cassette if you're putting it on a 9 spd freehub body. This way you also have the option of going to 7/8/9/10 speed indexed if it turns out friction shifting isn't for you.

FWIW, I ran my TT bike as 9spd friction for a while, when I was too lazy to adjust the indexing. 90% of the time it was great. The other 10% I'd think I was right on in a particular gear, only to find out I wasn't when I put some power down. YMMV.

Hope this helps,

Chris

[hankchong]

You can still buy 7 speed cassettes. My vote would be to get a 135mm cassette hub, and try running 9spd friction. If it's too much of a hassle, get a 7 speed cassette, and try that. You just need a spacer behind the cassette if you're putting it on a 9 spd freehub body. This way you also have the option of going to 7/8/9/10 speed indexed if it turns out friction shifting isn't for you.

FWIW, I ran my TT bike as 9spd friction for a while, when I was too lazy to adjust the indexing. 90% of the time it was great. The other 10% I'd think I was right on in a particular gear, only to find out I wasn't when I put some power down. YMMV.

Hope this helps,

Chris

What thickness spacer do you use when you go 7spd on a 8/9/10spd hub?

[stephenmarklay]

What thickness spacer do you use when you go 7spd on a 8/9/10spd hub?

4.5mm

[goonster]

upon further research some of the BOBish community believes in 7spd exclusively, hence hubs like these:

http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/phil-rivy-hubs/18-259
I don't think there is an orthodoxy toward 7sp friction, but the setup has certain advantages that appeal to BOB's:

1. Less offset for stronger wheels
2. Cheap freewheels
3. Cheap chains
4. Wider cog spacing for easier friction shifting

BOB's also embrace a "run what you brung" aesthetic, and going out of your way to buy 7sp parts when you have 9sp components available in your parts box runs against the core BOB value of thriftiness.

I enjoy friction shifting 9sp just fine.

[stephenmarklay]

I like both friction and index, but I give the nod to friction because it can't go out of adjustment except for the hi and lo adjustment, with index it has to be adjusted right on or it will shift like crap if at all.

Index is a tad faster though, but Suntour Superbe Tech system gives it a run for it's money, my Tech derailleur snaps gears even when climbing mountains, yeah occasionally I screw a shift up by moving the lever a tad to far or not enough but once your use to it you can grab gears right on most of the time, but I've had index do that too once in awhile.

If your thinking about a 8 speed freewheel stay far away from those, they had issues with the hubs snapping, but 7 or less is fine. I personally like the 7 speed but have bikes with 6 as well. The wider chains used on the older freewheel systems last far longer then the newer narrower chains found on cassette systems today. And the gear teeth on the older freewheels wear far longer. On the forums I visit the average life expectancy of a chain and cassette seems to be 3,000 to 4,000 miles (though on my newer bike I've gotten a bit more), whereas with the freewheel system 12,000 miles is about average (again I tend to get a bit more).

More gears doesn't mean a darn thing, I use to race the mountains of So Calif with just a 10 speed had no desire for more. The more gears just allow you to stay in a higher rpm longer but they don't give you any lower or higher gearing just more choices in between.

IRD currently makes the best freewheels on the market if your interested, or you can go on E-Bay and find new in a box vintage brands of freewheels.

All in all I think the old school friction systems are far more reliable.


I am thinking about building up a 10 speed racer. When did 6 speeds (12) come into vogue?

[staggerwing]

What thickness spacer do you use when you go 7spd on a 8/9/10spd hub?

Thickness is 4.5mm. Most any LBS or online retailer should be able to provide for about a fiver.

Note: The spacer is just an aluminum ring, and the surface of the largest cog needs to fit flush with its surface. The 7-speed Shimano cassette I'm using on one of my rigs had several of the largest cogs screwed to a carrier, and the screw heads interfered with proper cassette seating. Ended up notching the spacer with a file, and all is well.

[hankchong]

Thanks for the spacer replies and details.

[oliver1850]

Unless you're going to build a new wheel low dish, I see no advantage to 7 speed. Eight speed spacing is the same, you might as well have 8 cogs on a 135 spaced frame, assuming you buy a built wheel.

[palincss]

Unless you're going to build a new wheel low dish, I see no advantage to 7 speed. Eight speed spacing is the same, you might as well have 8 cogs on a 135 spaced frame, assuming you buy a built wheel.

I disagree.

To begin with, the available 8 speed cassettes have shrunk to a few, far fewer than 7, and none that I like. My favorite 7s are the 13-30, the 13-34 and the 14-32. These days, all the wide range 8s begin with 11, and although I use an 11-28 on my Moulton (which has 17" wheels) for all other purposes I find 11T sprockets useless.

What's more, this is a clear case of when less is more. With a 7spd cassette on a 135 hub, using the large chainring/large sprocket combination doesn't cause a very extreme chain angle. It's perfectly usable, provided your chain is long enough. Add one [useless 11T] sprocket and now you can't use that big-big combination any more. So you traded away a useful combination for a useless one.

If that's not enough, the available 8spd cassettes now aren't even customizable any longer.

[oliver1850]

You can grind the heads off the riveted cassettes and take them apart. I took an 11-30 8 speed cassette apart and used all but the 11 and 30 cogs to make a 13-26 7 speed for my NHX. I happened to have a loose 13 on hand, but I wouldn't think it's too hard to find them.

I don't know what's currently produced in 8 speed, but there's surely NOS of most things still available if you look.

[dana_e]

I use campy ten speed and old record friction shifters

It works great, why use 7 when you can use 8, 9 or 10

The sweet spot in my mind is nine speed.

[bobswire]

Well right now I have a 10 speed cassette on my friction bike but I can just as easily switch over to a 9/8 speed cassette with only having to make sure the derailleur stop screw it set correctly or even throw on a 6-7 speed wheel.
Whats not to like about friction?
http://i55.tinypic.com/jaapfd.jpg

[froze]

What thickness spacer do you use when you go 7spd on a 8/9/10spd hub?

Most of my bikes are old school bikes that came with 5 or 6 speed freewheels originally from the factory. I replaced one of those with a 7 speed and all I needed to do was have the rear wheel redished a tad and they put a washer in...I don't know what size the washer is because I took it to an LBS since I thought the stays would need to be spreaded, but they didn't so they did it that way. The washer is maybe about 2cm thick, but I would assume the thickness used would be dependent upon the rear stay of that particular bike.
The LBS said that the bike I did it on, a 84 Trek 660 was the simplest one they did in a while.

My newer bike a 07 Mercian I bought for touring purposes has been left as it was when I received it new. I was going to convert it from a 9 speed to a 7 but then I bought a 85 Schwinn LeTour Luxe with a 6 speed freewheel system and decide to use it as my touring bike.

[froze]

I am thinking about building up a 10 speed racer. When did 6 speeds (12) come into vogue?

Back before you were born!! Seriously, 10 speed were out for a very long time then in rapid succession 12 then 14 then very briefly 16 speed friction came along. 12 speed dominated the racing and bike world from around 83 till about 88 or 89 then 14 speeds dominated until about 90 when cassettes changed the world of cycling. Some companies trying to compete with the cassette system attempted to do a 8 speed freewheel but it put so much stress on the axle that bigger guys were breaking them. 10 speed systems were around the longest when they came out in the early 40's in Europe, but it wasn't until early 70's that America got them! I can't believe America was so backwards with cycling technology.

[stephenmarklay]

Back before you were born!! Seriously, 10 speed were out for a very long time then in rapid succession 12 then 14 then very briefly 16 speed friction came along. 12 speed dominated the racing and bike world from around 83 till about 88 or 89 then 14 speeds dominated until about 90 when cassettes changed the world of cycling. Some companies trying to compete with the cassette system attempted to do a 8 speed freewheel but it put so much stress on the axle that bigger guys were breaking them. 10 speed systems were around the longest when they came out in the early 40's in Europe, but it wasn't until early 70's that America got them! I can't believe America was so backwards with cycling technology.

Ok settle down, I was born in the Woodstock times :)

[Frankwurst]

I use campy ten speed and old record friction shifters

It works great, why use 7 when you can use 8, 9 or 10

The sweet spot in my mind is nine speed.

Agreed. I can't speak for ten though. I refuse to go there simply because I don't need or desire it. :beer:

[Gummee]

I am thinking about building up a 10 speed racer. When did 6 speeds (12) come into vogue?
Somewhere around 85-86-87 if I'm not mistaken. My first C-dale had blue 6sp 105 parts on it.

I still remember a few firsts: the first time I went on a ride with dual pivot brakes and almost launched myself over the bars cause I grabbed a handful of brake like I did on my single pivot brakes. The first time I went sprinting on a Syncros stem. (that was later in the mid 90s) and darn near levered my bike out from under me. First time falling cause of my new clipless pedals. Ahhh memories!

M

[froze]

Ok settle down, I was born in the Woodstock times :)

Groovy man! Hmm, well anyway I have you beat by 16 years thus I remember Woodstock very well, wish I could have gone but my parents would not let me, nor would my finances since I lived about 550 miles from there and tickets cost was a $24 and there was no place around where I lived to get advance tickets for less. $24 was a lot of money back then, plus gas. I would have loved to seen Jimi Hendrix play the Star Spangled Banner...he did that on a first take, never practiced it, his band members had no clue what he was doing, and if you listen to that recording you can tell the drummer is just drumming without any clue as to where to go. see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JbKimTdMg

[palincss]

10 speed systems were around the longest when they came out in the early 40's in Europe, but it wasn't until early 70's that America got them! I can't believe America was so backwards with cycling technology.

Not true. I bought a cheap Dunelt in 1964 in Buffalo NY to use as a commuter that had two chain rings and a five speed freewheel. What's more, every derailleur bike in the store had a 5-speed freewheel. My first encounter with derailleur gearing was in the 7th grade in the Bronx, probably 1955 or 1956, and that was a Bianchi city bike that belonged to a friend of mine, and that had a 5-speed freewheel, too.

[palincss]

Somewhere around 85-86-87 if I'm not mistaken. My first C-dale had blue 6sp 105 parts on it.


I bought a Santana Sovereign in 1983, the first year of the direct lateral design for Santana, that had a full-width 6-spd Sun Tour freewheel + Stronglight triple crank.

[stephenmarklay]

Groovy man! Hmm, well anyway I have you beat by 16 years thus I remember Woodstock very well, wish I could have gone but my parents would not let me, nor would my finances since I lived about 550 miles from there and tickets cost was a $24 and there was no place around where I lived to get advance tickets for less. $24 was a lot of money back then, plus gas. I would have loved to seen Jimi Hendrix play the Star Spangled Banner...he did that on a first take, never practiced it, his band members had no clue what he was doing, and if you listen to that recording you can tell the drummer is just drumming without any clue as to where to go. see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JbKimTdMg

That is a neat story. Thanks for sharing that.

[stephenmarklay]

Not true. I bought a cheap Dunelt in 1964 in Buffalo NY to use as a commuter that had two chain rings and a five speed freewheel. What's more, every derailleur bike in the store had a 5-speed freewheel. My first encounter with derailleur gearing was in the 7th grade in the Bronx, probably 1955 or 1956, and that was a Bianchi city bike that belonged to a friend of mine, and that had a 5-speed freewheel, too.

Sounds like there were some early adopters and imports of this NEW technology. Glad your still riding!

[palincss]

"New" in the mid 1950s? Not really. I remember when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade - make that sometime around 1950-1951 - seeing a peloton of roadies in Pelham Bay Park.

As for the technology itself, the modern derailleur bike basically dates to the 1930s. Bikes of the 1920s looked more like turn of the 20th century, but by late 1930s looked very much like something you'd see on a custom frame builder's web site today with only minor changes to the shifters (downtube, "suicide" lever operated front), brake levers (non-aero, no hoods) and possibly derailleurs (touring derailleurs like the Nivex & Cyclo didn't look much like today's rear derailleurs). Geometries also became recognizably "modern" by the late 1930s.