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dvs cycles
08-27-2011, 08:29 PM
Got this from a group mailing to my club today

All:

Yesterday I had a car purposely cut in front me in Venice along the narrow road we ride on Sundays shortly before the Rose Cafe. Prior to cutting me off, I was going the 25 mph speed limit through a narrow area with a center tree median (undrivable) to my left and the park to my right. Shortly after passing the tree center median, there is a stop sign. The car that was behind me swerved around me when he could pass and cut in front of me about 10 feet before the stop sign driving me just short of running into the curb. There is no painted bike lane in this area as the road is so narrow.

After the stop sign, I continued on the right side and the driver cut me off again driving me towards the curb so I went to the center median, which after the last stop sign, is paved so I could ride on it. The driver then looked and me through his car window, flipped me off and yelled "funken bike rider" and I yelled back what is your problem. The driver then speed up and I speed up too going about 25 mph again, but staying in the center median planning on passing the driver at the upcoming stop sign where he should stop. But, rather than stopping at the stop sign, the driver, yelled something to me like "no passing" and cut about 30 feet before the stop sign from the southbound lane he was in through the center medium at a hard left turn crossing all the way over to the north bound traffic. As I was going 25 mph and he cut at the last second in front of me, I crashed into the hood of his car and went flying to the street.

The driver then jumped out of his car and started accusing me of running into him and was trying to draw a fight. Luckily, two bystanders witnessed the accident and quickly ran up to the drive and told him "if you want to get to the bike rider, you have to go through us first." They were truly heroic.

Attached is the video I took from my cell phone after the accident.

I was then transported to the hospital.

The driver has been booked (Santa Monica police incident #11-89776) for assault with a deadly weapon and is currently residing in county jail. This is a very similar case to the doctor who stopped in front of two cyclist in Brentwood and is now in prison. The difference is I went over the hood instead of the back windown. You will see via the attached youtube link this driver has no remorse or concern for me and instead is challenging everyone to a fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqjkAcLHtr8

veloduffer
08-27-2011, 08:38 PM
That rider is either very brave or very foolish. He's lucky to be alive and instead, should have taken the license plate down after the first incident. Bike vs multi-ton vehicle is a no-win situation.

Glad the rider is seemingly ok, but I hope that he gets some perspective. Uttering "I was right" or "I had the right of way" is not the last words you ever want to speak.

thegunner
08-27-2011, 08:47 PM
i'm not sure i'd ever try to get in front of a vehicle if the driver has already shown the lack of mental prowess to run me into a curb. that just spells disaster to me, but glad he seems to be okay, and glad that the asshole in question has some time to reflect on his actions in jail.

Wilkinson4
08-27-2011, 09:02 PM
i'm not sure i'd ever try to get in front of a vehicle if the driver has already shown the lack of mental prowess to run me into a curb. that just spells disaster to me, but glad he seems to be okay, and glad that the asshole in question has some time to reflect on his actions in jail.

Exactly what I was thinking. You will loose every time.

mIKE

d.vader123
08-27-2011, 09:07 PM
As I was going 25 mph and he cut at the last second in front of me, I crashed into the hood of his car and went flying to the street. I wasn't able to understand this sentence too clearly. But I think I get the gist. I also wish to make a few comments/opinions.

1. This is definitely the driver's fault. No excuse.
2. However, it looked like this could have been avoided if the cyclist just let the driver pass. I know that people have to preserve their honor, but is it worth it to stick it to the guy?

I watched the whole video. Pretty intense. The driver is taking his own youtube video of the whole thing.

thwart
08-27-2011, 09:22 PM
Just glad no one had a gun there...

And I agree that you'd be a fool to mess with a nutty driver like that. Get the license number and get away.

JD Smith
08-27-2011, 09:40 PM
He's probably still looking for somebody to listen to his story, and if they disagree, it's "GO TIME".

PacNW2Ford
08-27-2011, 09:41 PM
I am trying to figure this out: "planning on passing the driver at the upcoming stop sign where he should stop." Was he planning to blow through the stop sign at 25 mph?

texbike
08-27-2011, 09:47 PM
It seems that there was an incredible level of stupidity on both sides of this situation. However, the driver was way over the top. I wouldn't have had the self-control to not have been all over the guy.

Texbike

d.vader123
08-27-2011, 09:48 PM
I am trying to figure this out: "planning on passing the driver at the upcoming stop sign where he should stop." Was he planning to blow through the stop sign at 25 mph? The writing was a little hard to understand, but I think that's what happened. The driver didn't stop at the sign and even went across the median line into the other lane just to hit the cyclist.

gdw
08-27-2011, 10:00 PM
"It seems that there was an incredible level of stupidity on both sides of this situation."

+1 The incident should never have occured.

beeatnik
08-27-2011, 10:14 PM
So, I was talking to this girl at a club and bought her a drink. She didn't like the Mai Tai and she didn't like my suggestion that she have sex on the beach with me instead. She got all stupid and sassy. Anyway, I slapped her and knocked out 4 teeth. The whole thing was recorded by her friend's iphone. When the cops arrived, I told them that she should have known better because it's like a bike taking on a car. The bike will always lose. Later, her friends posted about the incident online but a bunch of females put the blame on the victim for being sassy with me. Ya, never take on a drunk or belligerent idiot because you'll always lose. And never feel compassion for the victim as well so guys like me can continue to act like turds.

Not a true story, btw.

dekindy
08-27-2011, 10:25 PM
Dare I say it, but in this incident the cyclist was even more stupid than the driver. Aren't there enough cycliste being injured and killed when they don't have a choice than choosing to escalate a situation unnecessarily?

Charles M
08-27-2011, 10:39 PM
A$$hole driver...

Idiot Rider...

dekindy
08-27-2011, 11:48 PM
So, I was talking to this girl at a club and bought her a drink. She didn't like the Mai Tai and she didn't like my suggestion that she have sex on the beach with me instead. She got all stupid and sassy. Anyway, I slapped her and knocked out 4 teeth. The whole thing was recorded by her friend's iphone. When the cops arrived, I told them that she should have known better because it's like a bike taking on a car. The bike will always lose. Later, her friends posted about the incident online but a bunch of females put the blame on the victim for being sassy with me. Ya, never take on a drunk or belligerent idiot because you'll always lose. And never feel compassion for the victim as well so guys like me can continue to act like turds.

Not a true story, btw.

Are you condoning the cyclist's escalation of the situation?

Let's say that they were both driving cars and take the vehicle out of the equation. What would your opinion be? The guy that was cut off chases down the other car but is injured when the aggressive driver crashes into him on purpose, is a victim? What if a third party were injured because of the cyclist's actions?

Louis
08-28-2011, 12:06 AM
It's kind of tough to criticize the cyclist too much, since you never really know how you'll react when provoked, but trying to take on a driver while you're on the bike and he's in his car is a bad idea.

If the driver stops, gets out of the car, and you feel like fighting him, then by all means, as long as the driver's not Bruce Lee or William, you might have a chance. But car vs bike, car nearly always wins.

Finally, the cyclist was pretty stupid to put that in writing and distribute it for the whole world to see. Good luck in court, buddy.

JD Smith
08-28-2011, 12:19 AM
Finally, the cyclist was pretty stupid to put that in writing and distribute it for the whole world to see. Good luck in court, buddy.

No luck needed. The cyclist could have flipped him off, insulted his mother, or begged him to hit. The court doesn't rule two wrongs excuse a third, life threatening wrong. Once the driver crossed the line, in front of witnesses, and further proved he was more than eager to assault someone, anyone, he dug his grave. And in court, he'll probably still stick to his conviction that when your ahead of someone, you are totally absolved of any accidents that occur behind you. He's completely oblivious to the concept of fault in "cutting someone off." To him, the only crime is letting someone get ahead of you.

d.vader123
08-28-2011, 12:43 AM
No luck needed. The cyclist could have flipped him off, insulted his mother, or begged him to hit. The court doesn't rule two wrongs excuses a third, life threatening wrong. Once the driver crossed the line, in front of witnesses, and further proved he was more than eager to assault someone, anyone, he dug his grave.I'm no lawyer, but that makes sense to me. I mean, the driver hit the cyclist...on purpose! I can't imagine anyone but the driver getting punished for that.

Louis
08-28-2011, 12:49 AM
I hope the driver gets what he deserves, sounds like he's a kook, but some folks may agree with him if he claims that he was provoked by a crazy cyclist.

JD Smith
08-28-2011, 12:57 AM
I'm no lawyer, but that makes sense to me. I mean, the driver hit the cyclist...on purpose! I can't imagine anyone but the driver getting punished for that.

Just to be clear, I realize the cyclist could very well be at fault for putting himself in the position to get hit by a person who was willing to cut him off. But saying "shoot me" doesn't absolve the shooter.

To be truthful, I've done the same thing-sped up, knowing legally, I'm not at fault, but ignoring the fact that some drivers will take it up a notch, and their concern with winning or teaching a lesson will trump any small concern they have for a fellow human's life. By setting up a race to reach a certain point or turn, I'm purposefully setting the driver up to perform an illegal action, taking advantage of the driver's competitive nature, douchebaggery, and lack of self-control.
It's weird when it happens. In my mind, I'm almost saying, "This douche is probably willing to do this. Lets just see if I can tempt him into doing it." Maybe it's about getting satisfaction out of feeling like you can direct another's actions, set them up for failure.
I like to think as I get older, I'm better able to think rationally and weigh the benefits of winning the mind game versus losing the life game.

d.vader123
08-28-2011, 01:03 AM
Just to be clear, I realize the cyclist could very well be at fault for putting himself in the position to get hit by a person who was willing to cut him off. But saying "shoot me" doesn't absolve the shooter.

To be truthful, I've done the same thing-sped up, knowing legally, I'm not at fault, but ignoring the fact that some drivers will take it up a notch, and their concern with winning or teaching a lesson will trump any small concern they have for a fellow human's life. By setting up a race to reach a certain point or turn, I'm purposefully setting the driver up to perform an illegal action, taking advantage of the driver's competitive nature, douchebaggery, and lack of self-control.
It's weird when it happens. In my mind, I'm almost saying, "This douche is probably willing to do this. Lets just see if I can tempt him into doing it." Maybe it's about getting satisfaction out of feeling like you can direct another's actions, set them up for failure.
I like to think as I get older, I'm better able to think rationally and weigh the benefits of winning the mind game versus losing the life game.Good point, but you know what will stop me from goading an insane driver? Knowing that I don't want to wreck my nice, expensive bike.

(I know, I should be worried about my life more than a little bike.)

JD Smith
08-28-2011, 01:18 AM
Good point, but you know what will stop me from goading an insane driver? Knowing that I don't want to wreck my nice, expensive bike.

(I know, I should be worried about my life more than a little bike.)

If concern for the safety of your bike translates into safety for yourself, it's all good. After taking the time to find the right frame, research and spend money on parts, built up the wheels, and get everything just right, I should be that smart.
As a cyclists, I know I have rights. But I have to realize sometimes other won't respect those rights, and at that exact moment, I can't force them to respect them, or dole out punishment for not respecting them. And it's always in that exact moment when feelings of justice are strongest. Those feelings are strong enough for us to risk our lives. We have to swallow our ego, take down a plate number, and seek justice off the bike.

Marcusaurelius
08-28-2011, 01:32 AM
Well I believe bicycles have the same rights as automobiles and I hesitate to say I do not react well to someone who tries to bully me because he drives a car.

leooooo
08-28-2011, 07:56 AM
Driver at fault, but cyclist is an idiot for even bothering to confront.
Bike vs car, like bringing butterflies to a gunfight.

laupsi
08-28-2011, 08:50 AM
this incident is very unfortunate and really needs very little commentary. steps should have been taken to avoid this "accident".

toaster
08-28-2011, 09:29 AM
What the hell are you doing!

Why not let the guy get up the road and out of your life. 25 mph after the first minor incident tells me the bike rider's chasing for a fight.

mike p
08-28-2011, 09:51 AM
X2..... Not that I haven't pulled some dumbass stunts before!

Mike

A$$hole driver...

Idiot Rider...

rugbysecondrow
08-28-2011, 10:00 AM
What the hell are you doing!

Why not let the guy get up the road and out of your life. 25 mph after the first minor incident tells me the bike rider's chasing for a fight.


Bingo and I think he found one.

Joachim
08-28-2011, 10:03 AM
Recently becoming a dad makes me think twice before pulling stunts like this. There are other (more intelligent) ways to prove your point.

firerescuefin
08-28-2011, 10:06 AM
Recently becoming a dad makes me think twice before pulling stunts like this. There are other (more intelligent) ways to prove your point.

Can't say I wouldn't have been capable of this before...that's why it's called the heat of the moment, but after having kiddos, you realize there's too much to lose....for what? To say I won a pissing contest with a complete loser...Yippee

dekindy
08-28-2011, 10:25 AM
I just read the story again. By my estimation the cyclist is admitting that he was trying to cut the car off at the next intersection by intentionally running the stop sign, at least that is the way I interpret his commentary. Wouldn't it be illegal for the cyclist to ride in the median?

The cyclist seems rational on the video but was incredibly stupid in his actions and even more stupid for putting it in writing. It is going to be interesting at trial to say the least. Please post to this thread again when there is a result. If I were on the jury or the judge, I would assign some, not sure what percentage because I don't have any experience with these cases, of the blame to the cyclist.

I just cannot imagine a cyclist trying to cut off a motorist that had already cut him off twice. I thought California was extremely pedestrian and cyclist biased in their rules and laws, especially in the area that this incident occurred.

rugbysecondrow
08-28-2011, 10:30 AM
Yep. There is a whole lot of stupid involved with this incident.

dekindy
08-28-2011, 10:40 AM
Watching the video, I am even more glad that I have a road ID that displays most of the basic information that would be needed if I were not conscious.

eltonbalch
08-28-2011, 10:54 AM
Quitw a few years ago, a driver tried to run me off the road on West Circular Street in Saratoga, NY. I was able to catch up to him a short distance later as he was just going into his apartment. We exchanged a few pleasantries but when he started reaching for something just inside the door, I ended the conversation and went right to the police station in town. They ran his plate number and their interest escalated considerably. They immediately drove to his apartment (two cops) and I followed on my bike. They asked me to wait a short distance away and i could see the discussion was pretty animated. They then called me over and the driver began apologizing profusely. I learned later from a good source that he was "well known" to the police and had there been a witness he was heading for a jail visit.

The moral here is that many of these drivers have a history and the police WILL act in those situations. I freely admit I wanted to punch his lights out but I received greater satisfaction after turning him in. You will too :) .

Rueda Tropical
08-28-2011, 02:23 PM
While the cyclist probably broke some traffic laws in his pursuit of the driver that may warrant a ticket, the driver assaulted the cyclist with his car. That's an offense considerably more grave then breaking a traffic law, or several traffic laws and no behavior on the victim's part no matter how stupid gives the driver a pass for assault with a deadly weapon.

The driver will will find lots of willing takers for his invitations to kick everyone's ass in jail.

rugbysecondrow
08-28-2011, 02:54 PM
While the cyclist probably broke some traffic laws in his pursuit of the driver that may warrant a ticket, the driver assaulted the cyclist with his car. That's an offense considerably more grave then breaking a traffic law, or several traffic laws and no behavior on the victim's part no matter how stupid gives the driver a pass for assault with a deadly weapon.

The driver will will find lots of willing takers for his invitations to kick everyone's ass in jail.

Yep. I wonder how that cyclist feels about being "right" this morning? A lot of good it did him to push the issue with an assuole driver. Sure, the driver was wrong but the cyclist was a flipping moron and almost nominated himself for a Darwin award. Definition of lose/lose result.

Rueda Tropical
08-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Yep. I wonder how that cyclist feels about being "right" this morning? A lot of good it did him to push the issue with an assuole driver. Sure, the driver was wrong but the cyclist was a flipping moron and almost nominated himself for a Darwin award. Definition of lose/lose result.

It looks like both parties will be wishing they acted more rationally in the morning.

rugbysecondrow
08-28-2011, 03:05 PM
It looks like both parties will be wishing they acted more rationally in the morning.
:beer:

gdw
08-28-2011, 03:12 PM
.