how do (did) you select a custom builder?

[Climb01742]

for those of you who have selected (or are in the process of selecting) a custom builder, what factors were most important in your final choice? what finally sold you? what floated your boat? was it:

reputation?
seeing the builder's work?
talking with the builder?
the builder worked in the frame material or style of frame you wanted?
price?
delivery lead time?
aesthetics?
you related to the builder's story, history or philosophy?
you'd heard all the 'stories' and wanted to see if the buzz was real?
or was it something else?

and one more question: had you heard about the builder before or did you search them out or hear about them on a forum like this?

a custom bike is such a personal thing. as someone involved in marketing, i'm just always curious about how we each arrive at our personal choice and what influences it. thank you in advance.

[rugbysecondrow]

I shopped price first and was burned by that builder. I should have listened more to rep than price.

I didn't want to be burned again so for my next three frames (2 for me and 1 for my wife) I went with the guy who has a reputation for building the best riding frames in the country, Kelly Bedford. Ask Bedford owners and they consistently say the Bedford is the one bike in their stable they would not part with, that is some witnessing. It helps that his work is second to none, his delivery times were 8 weeks (TIG FRAMES) and the price was very reasonable. In addition, he was good to work with, honest and open to discussion about ideas. Even knowing Kelly's reputation for building great riding frames, somehow he exceeded my expectations.

[oldpotatoe]

for those of you who have selected (or are in the process of selecting) a custom builder, what factors were most important in your final choice? what finally sold you? what floated your boat? was it:

reputation?
seeing the builder's work?
talking with the builder?
the builder worked in the frame material or style of frame you wanted?
price?
delivery lead time?
aesthetics?
you related to the builder's story, history or philosophy?
you'd heard all the 'stories' and wanted to see if the buzz was real?
or was it something else?

and one more question: had you heard about the builder before or did you search them out or hear about them on a forum like this?

a custom bike is such a personal thing. as someone involved in marketing, i'm just always curious about how we each arrive at our personal choice and what influences it. thank you in advance.

I'm a little biased as I own a bike shop so I like the 2 custom builders we have had. Nobilette(decided to go direct) and Waterford. I also have the fit done here with a fit person, then those measurements go to the builder. I know some builders do formulaic type sizing, long distance, that results in a frame.

All 3 frames I have had/have rode really nice, were beautiful, well made.

I have had only 3 frames I will not part with. A Ciocc from 1985, 2 Merckx(MXLeader and Corsa). These ride great and have stories attached.

Altho it is 'personal', a custom frame, it's just a tool. It's not like your grandmother's wedding ring or something.

I think just about any builder who has a good rep can do the job. I know this doern't answer your question but I don't think it's really that complicated.

IMHO, of course.

[eddief]

He was within ok driving distance, pricing was fair, known for great work, known for being a really excellent fitter. Glad I got to work with him face to face. Been through a lotta bikes in the last 10 years. His still fits the best.

[Dekonick]

I like having a relationship with the individual who fits you (if that is the builder even better...) and they should have a close relationship with the builder. I chose Kelly Bedford because I have seen his work for years... how many of you own a CSI? Chances are he or possibly Dave Kirk built it...

I lusted for a Bedford build CSI but at that time it wasn't in the cards... glad I waited because I ended up with the perfect utilitarian touring bike. It has Bedford on the frame, but it has 20+ years of Serotta history built into her as well. For me, I am content with my Bedford tourer and my soon to be returned to me Hors Categorie. Both bikes have different purposes, both bikes are loved. Both bikes encompass Serotta history. Both bikes have been touched by Kelly Bedford. :banana:

If I ever go carbon, it will be a Serotta. For Steel, it will be KB for me.

FWIW - if you can work with Smiley, he and KB together create a ride second to none. If you want Serotta, Smiley can set you up. Want Bedford? Same deal. If you are in the DC area, he is worth the trip.

:)

[weiwentg]

Vanilla bicycles - saw his work on <a href='http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/probikes/?id=skerritt_vanilla'>Cyclingnews</a>. Browsed some forums for reviews (I think mainly this one). Heard he was pretty good. Got on the waitlist.

[Ti_on_Steel]

I went with a fitter/bike shop first, and then talked to them about who they had good relationships with. I wanted to work with a fitter who had a close working relationship with a builder. After that, turn around time was a priority for me.

[Smiley]

I lusted for a Serotta cause at the time when I was a consumer I really dug the Colorado Concept tubing and wanted a bike in this motif. During my working relationship with Serotta I got to know a guy named Kelly Bedford and I quickly learned how brilliant the guy was in working behind the scenes making fitters like me look good by keeping us out of trouble.

It was at our Serotta Tour Du Toga event that Pete, SPOKE and myself dined with Kelly and we told him the day he decides to go at it solo to call us for our deposits. I still remember Pete calling me and saying send Kelly a check for $1000 as he and SPOKE got ahead of me in line for their Bedford's. A few other friends quickly lined up their deposits cause we all knew a good thing when we saw it and the birth or re-birth of K Bedford Customs was born.

This year alone I will have delivered 8 new frames plus two chopped Serotta Legends that Kelly is now working on (I hear you Mike :) )

So for me Kelly's bikes are FANTASTIC riding machines and a great value too boot. Lead times of 8 weeks on Ti road and Steel tig road and 6 months for Fillet or Lugged is a great deal to own a bike built by a MASTER.

my Bedford sport tourer is a life time keeper

[mike p]

First go to builders that build the type of bike you want. If I want an all out touring bike I'm not going to Primus Mootry, not that Joe couldn't build a touring bike but racing bikes are his thing not tourers. Once you have a list of builders that build the style of bike you want go through the other filters, reputation, price, lead-time, and looks. Then talk to the builders left and get a feel for who you gel with. Works for me.

Mike

[bart998]

[QUOTE=rugbysecondrow]I shopped price first and was burned by that builder. I should have listened more to rep than price.

I recently got a frame by a new builder who had broken off from a large frame operation. He offered me a great price and his frames looked good so I ordered the frame. I told him exactly what I wanted but his initial drawings were completely off. I should have listened to the warning signs. The bike I received had several major problems. (touring frame and the canti-mounts too high, cable hangar too low, triple won't clear the stays, etc.) I sent it back with the assurance they would be fixed promptly. After two months he was no longer returning my emails and his phone only gave the fax tone. I thought he had gone belly-up and taken my frame with him. Then UPS showed up at my door. Problems not fixed and I am out the return shipping cost as well. I will never use price as a basis for ordering a frame again. Customer service and workmanship is everything. Lesson learned.

[BengeBoy]

When I was starting to look at custom frames I realized that here in the Pacific Northwest I was surrounded by custom builders. I liked the idea of working w/someone local, so both of my custom frames were made in Seattle. One from a very established veteran with a long history and great reputation. The 2nd by a guy just starting out. I like the mix.

[1centaur]

My customs are Crumpton, Parlee and Moots.

The first two were easy: material was the first screen and that eliminated nearly all the competition. For the Moots, that was my big custom year and Moots had a great rep, the Ti finish I preferred, and a really small upcharge from stock. They made it easy, and that's what won the business (I knew the measurements I wanted and had on other bikes). The LBS worked with Moots to get the frame to Hot Tubes for some custom paint touches. Very much got the feeling it was a high touch small company.

The Crumpton choice the first time around was the hardest because it was my first custom and he had not been out there for very long. I wanted Colnago angles but a longer top tube and my own paint scheme. I had to figure out if he'd build something I'd be afraid to ride, because he cost less than the competition. I read all his stuff and talked to him and I got the feeling he knew his stuff. It did not hurt that he said he liked 7.5cm drops even before I could say that's exactly what I was thinking of. His communication thereafter was fantastic, and of course the product was excellent so it was easy to go back for the next two. Some combination of luck and instinct was involved in that choice.

The Parlee - he was emerging as the highest reputation custom CF builder at the time (pre-Meivici IIRC) and I wanted to see what the fuss was about, post Crumpton 1. I did not worry he'd build something that would not ride well, I worried that his instincts were for steeper angles than I wanted and I'd have to fight for my preferences. He was also a little tougher to deal with on paint colors than Nick, who sent me paint chip books. With Parlee I had to go to the LBS (I'm local to Parlee and the LBS) to look at paint colors and the choice was not voluminous (at that point he was using a motorcycle painter in Wakefield and one almost never saw a painted Parlee). There were a couple of other annoyances along the way to the Zx1, but ultimately it is a great bike and I got what I wanted. I would be happy to repeat as a custom customer with them because they seem very attuned to the process at this point.

In all three cases, my key consideration was whether I could afford to make a mistake (yes) and then could I get what I wanted without a lot of difficulty - transaction ease and perfect execution were what I sought. That meant I knew what I wanted and was not looking for a builder to tell me what I was supposed to want, which differentiates my search from most I see discussed on the Web.

[rounder]

for those of you who have selected (or are in the process of selecting) a custom builder, what factors were most important in your final choice? what finally sold you? what floated your boat? was it:

reputation?
seeing the builder's work?
talking with the builder?
the builder worked in the frame material or style of frame you wanted?
price?
delivery lead time?
aesthetics?
you related to the builder's story, history or philosophy?
you'd heard all the 'stories' and wanted to see if the buzz was real?
or was it something else?

and one more question: had you heard about the builder before or did you search them out or hear about them on a forum like this?

a custom bike is such a personal thing. as someone involved in marketing, i'm just always curious about how we each arrive at our personal choice and what influences it. thank you in advance.

I considered all offthe above and weny with Kelly and Smiley. I had considered getting in line for an R. Sachs bike because I liked the way they looked, his reputation and price. But I did not know whether I would still be riding bikes after being on the wait list for eight years. I then was seriously considering a D. Kirk bike based on his reputation, testamony of others, and pictures from his website. I am sure that I would have been happy with bikes from either of those builders.

2010 NAHBS was held in Richmond and was in reasonable driving distance, so I went. I got to see every bike at least twice and lots of them were beautiful. I also got to meet with many of the builders (Kelly Bedford, Smiley, Karen Kirk, e-richie, Tom Kellogg, and Dave Wages' brother and others). I did not go to NAHBS to buy a bike, I just wanted to see them. But after meeting Kelly and Smiley and seeing the bikes, I knew what I wanted to do.

I mailed the deposit and got fit. The whole process was fun and went exactly as described and there were no ugly surprises along the way. I ended up with a beautiful bike and met two frends.

[Joachim]

I would first select on material, then lugged, TIG or fillet brazed. Order from a veteran with a great reputation. Some builders are also known as great fitters (Tom Kellogg comes to mind, but there are of course others out there), some work with fit centers (ie Serotta) and others will take a fitters recommendations. Your custom needs to fit well and everything else comes second. Once you settled on a few builders, call them to get a feel for what they are all about. Finally ask previous customers about their experience.

[Z3c]

I have ordered frames from Roland Della Santa, Parlee, Calfee, Hampsten and Joe Depaemelare(Primus Mootry). First, you need to decide what you really want; if you ask for stiff and light, be careful as you will probably get what you ask for. Purely IMHO, but I think you can see what builders seem to be in line with the theme you are envisioning such as a 'cross bike or whatever. Next, within that group, which builders make bikes that catch your eye when you see pics. To me, that is a large part of what it is about; this will be a custom bike for you so it should seem exciting to you. At that point I would make contact with those on your short list and see what kind of "vibe" you take away from those conversations. I wanted certain things and Joe was absolutely willing to do whatever I wanted. I love the resulting bike and he charged me next to nothing for my specifics. Steve Hampsten has a theme/vision for their frames and so was politely limiting but I love the classic roots my bike has. Dive in and trust your instincts. When you have a short list, ask here and across the hall for references.

Have fun with it!

Scott

[JLNK]

Richard Sachs - a no brainer, a functional work of art.
Habanero - excellent welds, service, price, and communication. Have two custom road frames and really like them. Probably not a choice if you have to have a status name builder.
Tim Neenan (Lighthouse) - ordered a Columbus Max frame which is in paint, good communication and feedback.
Unnamed builder - first frame was beautiful and so ordered a second, was told frame was ready for delivery almost a year ago, poor to no communication, have asked for money back, will never use again.

[rugbysecondrow]

Somebody else said it, but don't be shy about asking builders. Folks are hesitant to post negative experiences, but if you ask the flood gates will open!

[jr59]

I wanted another Ti bike.

I needed/wanted a custom.

I look at almost every builders web site, sent way to many emails, and talked to many different builders.

I also made a list of what they told me, how long, cost, their ideas about bikes.

Then I cut the list down to 4-5. Ericksen, Moots, Serotta, Spectrum, Holland.

I recalled all these people, some got off the list, because they had NO dealer in the area. ( can you hear me Serotta), some were set up at a shop that I won't spend .01 in.

That cut it down to Holland, Ericksen, and Spectrum.

It was just a coin flip then, until I thought, Tom Kellogg designed my old merlin, then it was over.

Spectrum built me a great bike that I love.

[mgd]

height.

[znfdl]

Back in 1987 I was riding a Cannondale which did not fit. I did not know anything abut the custom bike builders. A friend of mine was riding a Spectrum. I now have had five Spectrum's built for me that are incredible handling bikes. Two steel and 3 Ti.

My other custom is a Coconino which is a do everything type of road brake with disc brakes. I bought from Steve due to his reputation. I am as comfortable taking the bike in in 29 mph pacelines as I am going 40 mph downhill on gravel roads.

I would buy again from iether builder in a heartbeat.

[oldpotatoe]

I wanted another Ti bike.

I needed/wanted a custom.

I look at almost every builders web site, sent way to many emails, and talked to many different builders.

I also made a list of what they told me, how long, cost, their ideas about bikes.

Then I cut the list down to 4-5. Ericksen, Moots, Serotta, Spectrum, Holland.

I recalled all these people, some got off the list, because they had NO dealer in the area. ( can you hear me Serotta), some were set up at a shop that I won't spend .01 in.

That cut it down to Holland, Ericksen, and Spectrum.

It was just a coin flip then, until I thought, Tom Kellogg designed my old merlin, then it was over.

Spectrum built me a great bike that I love.

What is your area?

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I am a sucker for nice guys. They, of course, have to have good reputations for delivering solid product, but that really doesn't narrow the field down much. I decided on Steelman, Kirk, Hampsten, and Zanconato mostly because I clicked with them and their enthusiasm for cycling and getting you on something great to ride.

I chose Nick Crumpton based exclusively for his reputation for building a phenomenal custom carbon fiber frame. That is not to say Nick isn't a nice guy...he is. I just didn't base my buying decision factoring that in. Also, that was my first custom bike, so I didn't have much knowledge/rapport with custom builders.

[dave thompson]

I've had 3 terrific customs and 1 that was so-so. The builders of the terrific bikes I fortuitously 'bumped into', either in person or because of foreknowledge of their "creds", though I met them all personally before I committed to them.

I've never shopped by price but time, at my age is somewhat important to me.

I think the greatest insight to choosing a builder that I've drawn from my experiences is not whether or not I like the guy (it helps though) but does he; listen to me, understand what I'm saying, ask a zillion questions, if necessary, so he's clear on what I want/need/desire.

[steampunk]

In a nutshell, pick someone that resonates with what you are really looking for.

The long story is that I went to NAHBS when it came to town. Talked to a lot of people, looked at their wares in person, asked many questions and took plenty of photos. Admittedly, that was information overload. So I just stepped back a bit and let it simmer for a while, and in the interval really thought about what I wanted in a custom, both performance and aesthetics.

About a month or so ago, I was seriously back to my photos and notes from NAHBS and spent lots of hours on the internet and peeking at VS, and checking out local options. I kept circling back to Hampsten. The clean aesthetic, a design philosophy - both just matched what I like. So I gave Steve a call. Many emails, and a few conversations later...order placed just last week. Can't wait to see the final product.

[Bruce K]

My customs are Serotta, Zanconato, and Bedford

The first Serotta was based on fitter/dealer suggestion. The others were based on my live of the ride feel and quality plus company philosophy.

The Zanconato single speed cross bike purchase was based on the fact he was a local, up and coming builder (at the time) who was doing really nice work, gaining a great reputation, and was very easy to deal with in producing s unique bicycle.

My Bedford choice was based on a past relationship, the fact that Kelly was willing to work with me on a beautiful set of custom carved lugs, the ability to get a high quality (Keith Anderson) custom paint job, and delivery time.

BK

[Mudbug]

My first custom was from Rivendell. I liked Grant Petersen's Bridgestone road bikes. When Bridgestone closed it's US bike operations and Grant started out on his own, I ordered a Rivendell without hesitation. At that time Waterford built them to Grant's specifications. In 2000, I ordered another Rivendell called a Custom by then, since Grant started offering other frames. The second Rivendell was built by Joe Starck and painted by Joe Bell.

Somewhere in between the two Rivendell's, I learned of Richard Sachs. I kicked around a few names, Eisentraut, Spectrum, Della Santa, and Sachs. I was looking for another steel, lugged frame. Grant and Richard had good things to say about each other, so I went with Richard Sachs. It seems that Richard's reputation has grown as time has passed.

[Fishbike]

I somewhat hate to admit this, but I initially chose my first artisan frame and only custom frame because the name is the same as mine -- Davidson. But I did do my homework -- read all I could about Bill Davidson and Elliot Bay Bicycles and spoke to them. The bike looks and rides great and the fit is perfect. The communication was teriffic, turnaround was a reasonable two months and the price very fair. Early in the year I rescued and rebuilt another Davidson from Ebay. It's kinda fun tooling around with my name on the downtubes.

[steampunk]

It's kinda fun tooling around with my name on the downtubes.

Hey that's as good a reason as any. And a great conversation starter I bet.

[DHallerman]

I decided on Steelman, Kirk, Hampsten, and Zanconato mostly because I clicked with them and their enthusiasm for cycling and getting you on something great to ride.

Same here.

One of the reasons we went with Dave Kirk for my wife's custom was the initial phone call, where Dave spent time, went into details and the reasoning behind details (such as Terraplane stays), talked about bike stuff more generally, was open to hearing about her needs and our thoughts about bikes.

Real communication is rare in this world. So, to find that with someone you're going to give thousands of dollars to makes communication an absolute necessity, I'd say.

Dave, who gets pleasure from the great pleasure Cathy has while riding her Kirk frame which fits her better than any bike she's ever owned which you see here: Kirk (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=904750&highlight=kirk#post904750)

[weiwentg]

He was within ok driving distance, pricing was fair, known for great work, known for being a really excellent fitter. Glad I got to work with him face to face. Been through a lotta bikes in the last 10 years. His still fits the best.

Although Sacha White was known as an excellent fitter, when I got a Vanilla I went with a local Serotta dealer for the fit (Sacha sent a fit sheet), as it wasn't practical to go out to Portland. I was in grad school and quite busy. I'm completely satisfied with my fit. However, next time I'm getting a custom, I will most likely get fit at the builder. Best that the person building the bike sees you, imo.

As to how I decided on a Vanilla, I saw Sacha's work on Cyclingnews (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/probikes/?id=skerritt_vanilla). He built a bike for the US Mastes cyclocross champ. I did some searching on the forums. I decided.

[jr59]

I somewhat hate to admit this, but I initially chose my first artisan frame and only custom frame because the name is the same as mine -- Davidson. But I did do my homework -- read all I could about Bill Davidson and Elliot Bay Bicycles and spoke to them. The bike looks and rides great and the fit is perfect. The communication was teriffic, turnaround was a reasonable two months and the price very fair. Early in the year I rescued and rebuilt another Davidson from Ebay. It's kinda fun tooling around with my name on the downtubes.

I'm glad you had a good time with Davidson.

I love my Impulse, it's a really great bike, even for 20 years old or so.
So I ordered another frame from Davidson. Big mistake.

Wrong fork, wrong paint, no rear fender mountings.
I have not even built it up yet, because I am so disappointed.
I don't really even want to look at it.

So I guess everybodys experiences will be different!

I'll figure out what to do with this frame in a LONG while!
Right now I feel like running over it with a car!

[jr59]

What is your area?

I'm in The Big Easy, New Orleans baby!

[EricEstlund]

I am so disappointed.


Have you spoken about this with the folks at Davidson?

I'd hate to send a bike to a customer and have them feel this way- but I'd want to know about it to make it right.

You may have already spoken with them, and there are always two sides, of course, but if one asks for specific things and they are missed there should be a polite conversation to try to get things on track.

[Kontact]

I think that this decision is essentially aesthetic in nature. Once you've eliminated the builders who's reputation or construction are NOT what you want, what you are left with is the look, details, paint, logo and philosophy of the builder.

No one is seriously going to argue that a Vanilla is vastly superior to a Spectrum or a Kirk. But all three have different approaches to the look of lugged steel, and one of them will grab you a little more.

I don't think there's anything wrong with picking the builder who makes what you consider to be the best looking bicycle, as long as the builder has a reputation for building quality bikes of the style you want. Otherwise you'll argue yourself into buying based on criteria that aren't really what makes you happy - and happy is really what a custom bike is about.

[rustychain]

I talked to many people but in the end I had a mechanic/ fitter that I had a long standing relationship with. He worked with several custom builders in the past. Based on what I needed and his having a successful relationship with that builder I went with his suggestion. He measured me every way possable and asked lots of questions about how i ride and what traits i considered important. The finished bike exceeded all my expectations in quality and the fit wad perfect. I did not need to adjust anything after the finished bike was delivered or in the thousands of miles after.
My friend had a less then perfect outcome. He choose a builder based mostly on price and looks. He told the builder specifically what he wanted, not in terms of how the bike would ride or what his needs as a cyclist were but a checklist of features such as BB30, ISP and other so called improvements. He also dictated the geometry based on what he considered his best judgment. The result is he now is far less satisfied then me

[Bob Ross]

I've ordered (2) custom bikes. One of them -- a Richard Sachs -- I have yet to take delivery of (my name's still at least a year or 2 away from coming to the top of his queue). But I ordered a Sachs in part because of his reputation, but mostly because of the way Sachs owners describe riding one of Richard's bikes. There's very little of the "Vertically Stiff While Laterally Compliant" tech talk when Sachs owners describe the ride; instead, it's more akin to poetry. I wanted to experience poetry.

My other custom bike is a Carl Strong, which I took delivery of just after last Christmas. And, in addition to Carl's reputation, it was his attention to detail and dedication to precision fabrication that swayed me. Reading his self-described history and process in the V-Salon's Smoked Out section made me realize that I wanted a bike built by the guy for whom those things were important. If Carl was an architect or a luthier or a shoemaker or a lawn mower builder I would want a house/guitar/loafer/ride-on mower built by him, because the things that are important to him really resonate with me.

[jr59]

Have you spoken about this with the folks at Davidson?

I'd hate to send a bike to a customer and have them feel this way- but I'd want to know about it to make it right.

You may have already spoken with them, and there are always two sides, of course, but if one asks for specific things and they are missed there should be a polite conversation to try to get things on track.

Yes I have and I did not like the prospect of them doing anything more for me EVER!!!!

In so far as I gave away a Davidson impulse I had and really liked.

I will never again speak well of Davidson, or again on this! As I was reluctant to post about this. Something in me just sort of kind of boiled over this morning.
This is not like me at all. As people on this forum should remember, I'll not bitch in an open forum, mostly!

I am sorry for hijacking this thread, I meant no offense.
I'm sure that all custom builders have their bad deals, where the customer is not always pleased.

So what, for me, it's a lesson learned! And when I replace this POS Davidson frame, I'll have another builder make it. Come to think of it, I should have had Tom Kellogg build it from the start. He did such a great job on my Ti.

If anyone has questions about this for me. I will not respond on this thread, nor any other on any open forum. I will be more than happy to respond via PM here or any other bike forum. I use the same name in all of them.

Again I am very sorry.
jr59

P.S. I should feel lucky. There are more than a few that have paid for, or given deposits for frames that never have gotten ANYTHING!
At least I got something, even if it is WRONG!

[Aaron O]

I spoke to quite a few builders...Bilenky, Hetchins, some less known locals. I was going to Italy for my honeymoon and a member at Bike Forums offered his expertise. This particular gentleman knows as much about Italian builders as pretty much anyone I've spoken with and he worked in the industry for quite a few years. When we spoke and he asked me what I wanted, he recommended Daniele Marnati, and after seeing photos of his work, I thought it sounded like a great suggestion. The final decider was when he suggested I go with a lugged MAX tubeset.

Anyway, he linked me up with Stefano, known here as slotcar, who helped to facilitate the deal. Marnati was a VERY reasonably priced, his expertise and pedigree were superb and picking it up in Milan and seeing where it was built added some magic to the honeymoon.

[Minstrie]

I was kind of clueless at the outset, had ridden enough miles and bikes to know I'd benefit from a custom build. Carl Strong kept getting good reports on the various forums, and after he and I emailed back and forth a few times, I ordered a frame from him, and the bike was/is perfect for me. I now have four Strongs (original, S&S, all-arounder, cross). I've got a bunch of lugged frames including old Italians plus a new Kirk I'm still building up (using Carl's geo), but if I had to trim the stable, last bike left would be my first Strong. I suppose if I were ordering a custom frame first time, my order of priorities would be: material, lugs/fillet vs TIG, purpose. Not that I ever need another bike, but if someone were to offer, fit to me, a lugged steel cross frame by Sachs or Zank, or a fillet Terraplane by Kirk, or a rando by Ellis (Dave Wages) or Weigle, or a carbon by Crumpton or Strong, or a Ti coupled round the world self supported touring Strong or Alliance (Eric Rolf), well, I certainly wouldn't refuse the offer.

Minstrie

[Frankwurst]

I just returned from the Heartland Velo show and had the pleasure of talking with Chris Kvale and looking at some of his work. I'm sending him a frame for a repaint and fork to be reraked this next week. Well worth a look if you're in the market. :beer:

[Jeff N.]

Bill Holland. All of the above. To see one is to want one, IMO. Having him here in San Diego certainly helped too. Jeff N.

[Jeff N.]

Yes I have and I did not like the prospect of them doing anything more for me EVER!!!!

In so far as I gave away a Davidson impulse I had and really liked.

I will never again speak well of Davidson, or again on this! As I was reluctant to post about this. Something in me just sort of kind of boiled over this morning.
This is not like me at all. As people on this forum should remember, I'll not bitch in an open forum, mostly!

I am sorry for hijacking this thread, I meant no offense.
I'm sure that all custom builders have their bad deals, where the customer is not always pleased.

So what, for me, it's a lesson learned! And when I replace this POS Davidson frame, I'll have another builder make it. Come to think of it, I should have had Tom Kellogg build it from the start. He did such a great job on my Ti.

If anyone has questions about this for me. I will not respond on this thread, nor any other on any open forum. I will be more than happy to respond via PM here or any other bike forum. I use the same name in all of them.

Again I am very sorry.
jr59

P.S. I should feel lucky. There are more than a few that have paid for, or given deposits for frames that never have gotten ANYTHING!
At least I got something, even if it is WRONG!
I've had issues with a certain custom builder as well, one with an extremely glowing, well-known, enviable reputation. Couldn't give me what I requested (a very reasonable request, mind you) and sniveled HARD when I wanted my deposit back. Hey, stuff happens, ya know? Live and learn. Jeff N.

[fogrider]

I agree that it would be great to get a frame built locally, but that is not always possible. here are some other names to consider:
rock lobster
mikkelsen
della santa
curtlo

[Peter P.]

I've had a handful of steel frames built.

Around 1979, I had a Richard Sachs built. Richard was relatively new, working in CT, which is where I live, and the local shop was a fan of his work. At the time, I was also interested in price and delivery times, which were reasonable then. I trusted the shop's reviews and of course, saw the frames in person, but I knew nothing of frames, framebuilders, and whatnot. I will say Richard delivered exactly what I wanted.

In 1990, I had a then Sterling (Now Bilenky) built. I had never seen his work; all I had to go on was a brief description from a listing in a Bicycling Magazine Annual Buyer's Guide. Again, I was looking at price and delivery. At the time, I think the blurb said he had built 750 frames, which also factored into my decision. He delivered on time and just what I wanted.

In 1997, the Sterling was stolen and I ordered another Bilenky as a replacement because I liked the first one so much. Other than a mismatch in the color, the bike was just as ordered and there was barely a phone call between us the entire time.

In 2008 or so, I ordered a custom ATB frame and fork from a framebuilder who will go unnamed because it was a disaster. If you want the details, PM me. I chose him because he had a large number of frames under his belt, had a good reputation on at least one forum, and the price was reasonable-I couldn't see paying big bucks for a mountain bike frame when they get trashed anyway. Fortunately, we reached an amicable dissolution to a bad situation and I received a reasonable refund. In that respect he was a good businessman and I tried to treat him fairly too, even though I was cross-eyed about the situation.

I still needed an ATB frame after that, so I chose Rock Lobster. After reading both of Paul Sadoff's blogs I felt here was a truly honest individual with a long standing reputation in the business. One e-mail and one phone call was all it took for him to win me over that he knew what he was doing, was a sound business person, and would get the frame constructed correctly. My only regret is I am a person who likes variety because if I didn't, I'd go back to order another Rock Lobster in a heartbeat.

[Aaron O]

I've had a handful of steel frames built.

Around 1979, I had a Richard Sachs built. Richard was relatively new, working in CT, which is where I live, and the local shop was a fan of his work. At the time, I was also interested in price and delivery times, which were reasonable then. I trusted the shop's reviews and of course, saw the frames in person, but I knew nothing of frames, framebuilders, and whatnot. I will say Richard delivered exactly what I wanted.

In 1990, I had a then Sterling (Now Bilenky) built. I had never seen his work; all I had to go on was a brief description from a listing in a Bicycling Magazine Annual Buyer's Guide. Again, I was looking at price and delivery. At the time, I think the blurb said he had built 750 frames, which also factored into my decision. He delivered on time and just what I wanted.

In 1997, the Sterling was stolen and I ordered another Bilenky as a replacement because I liked the first one so much. Other than a mismatch in the color, the bike was just as ordered and there was barely a phone call between us the entire time.

In 2008 or so, I ordered a custom ATB frame and fork from a framebuilder who will go unnamed because it was a disaster. If you want the details, PM me. I chose him because he had a large number of frames under his belt, had a good reputation on at least one forum, and the price was reasonable-I couldn't see paying big bucks for a mountain bike frame when they get trashed anyway. Fortunately, we reached an amicable dissolution to a bad situation and I received a reasonable refund. In that respect he was a good businessman and I tried to treat him fairly too, even though I was cross-eyed about the situation.

I still needed an ATB frame after that, so I chose Rock Lobster. After reading both of Paul Sadoff's blogs I felt here was a truly honest individual with a long standing reputation in the business. One e-mail and one phone call was all it took for him to win me over that he knew what he was doing, was a sound business person, and would get the frame constructed correctly. My only regret is I am a person who likes variety because if I didn't, I'd go back to order another Rock Lobster in a heartbeat.

Peter...a 54cm Sterling, a Sports Tourer, ended up on Philly CL last year. There's a thread about it on BF's...I recall swapping messages with the guy who bought it. AMAZING bike.

[jlwdm]

I think that this decision is essentially aesthetic in nature. Once you've eliminated the builders who's reputation or construction are NOT what you want, what you are left with is the look, details, paint, logo and philosophy of the builder.

...


I disagree. Fit and ride -top factors.

Jeff

[Kontact]

I disagree. Fit and ride -top factors.

Jeff
Okay, of the three in my example, which ones are not going to give you a good fit or ride?

And how did you determine that, since riding someone else's custom Kirk is not going to tell you anything about how YOUR Kirk will ride or fit?

[JohnHemlock]

I got drunk and took my own measurements and sent them to a builder whose bikes I had never ridden or even seen in person. Worked like a charm, love my bike.

[jlwdm]

Okay, of the three in my example, which ones are not going to give you a good fit or ride?

And how did you determine that, since riding someone else's custom Kirk is not going to tell you anything about how YOUR Kirk will ride or fit?


Your first paragraph did not refer to just the three builders in the second paragraph.

I had faith in getting the right ride and fit of my custom Serotta and custom Spectrum based on the individuals involved in the process. People I trusted to do the job.


Jeff

[mister]

Yes I have and I did not like the prospect of them doing anything more for me EVER!!!!



so your saying you won't let them fix their mistakes?

what was their response when you told them of the problems?

how did you get the wrong fork? is it a bike with a carbon fork?

[geopedler]

Have not read all of the posts before me here, but...

Any builder worth your money should be willing to spend lots of time with you on the phone and back and forth with your CAD drawings until you are happy. I talked with 4 different builders before deciding to go with Kent Eriksen. Honestly they were all great to deal with but Kent was a cut above.

If nothing else give Kent a call to see what how he treats a customer, he may be a great fit for you too.

[erolorhun]

I went with a bulider whose past work and a good price made me choose them and here I am with 50% payed and two passed delivery dates wondering If the`ll ever answer my e-mails. Originally quoted march 1st then late june

[Peter B]

The process often takes longer than expected/estimated. Lots of small builders are one man shops. So many things can derail a schedule:
Hurricanes, wives, kids, illness, other revenue-producing work, holiday, death, birth, new roof, new plumbing, new sparks, new house, materials/tooling issues, sudden influx of orders, computer crash, cash-flow issues, trade show or team support wrok, and many others.

Try contacting them for a simple status update w/o hanging up on dates. Use email, phone, text, FB, skype, snail mail, drop off a 6-pack whatever tech your tech is hip to.

This too shall pass and you'll have years of enjoyment ahead! So go ponder paint. :beer:

[erolorhun]

Yes, I understand all that. What bugs me is that this firms communication is seriously below par, a simple e-mail to get everyone on the same page would and will alleviate a lot of frustration.

It`s ti by the way so no paint, going for the industrial look

[Peter B]

Yes, I understand all that. What bugs me is that this firms communication is seriously below par, a simple e-mail to get everyone on the same page would and will alleviate a lot of frustration.

It`s ti by the way so no paint, going for the industrial look

Beaded, brushed or peened? What about etching??

I understand your frustration and have learned to accept varying levels of communication related to initial impression, when it changed, cash outlay and status of completion, knowledge of the builder and their style and current condition of the product. Cross-country radio silence can be troubling.

Find patience. ;)

[erolorhun]

Beaded, brushed or peened? What about etching??

Like so

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m338/erolorhun/11-09-04031.jpg