Thoughts on RB-1 build

[stephenmarklay]

I posted a thread on model years for RB-1's and had great feed back. I was lucky enough to purchase a frame/fork in my size that I am very excited to build up.

This is a the RB-1/8 (130mm spacing) version. I would like to keep the bike simple. I don't think carbon hanging this one is right and campy is just not right either (Japanese tubes need Japanese bits :D )

I also think that simple down tube shifters would be fine (even though the bike was spec'd with Brifters).

My problem is that it seems like it is a lot more cost effective to just go buy new. Prices for nice older bits like 8 speed DA are pricey. I have even thought I would go backwards and do 6-7 speed but I would then have to space out the rear hub.

I would also do a group of Suntour, Sugino Dia Compe etc and be fine.

The use of the bike will be group riding, centuries/gran fondo.

*Thanks so much everyone for helping me move forward on this bike/project. A very special thanks goes out to the seller of the frame in the first place :cool:

[rccardr]

Do a full Shimano 600 tricolor build. Works great as an 8-speed, and if you can't find a set of DT shifters there are still new R400L ones banging around out there for under $40.

PM me if you're having a hard time finding pieces, I have quite a few laid aside.

[stephenmarklay]

Thats a solid recommendation. Not so pricey as DA and not as rare as a lot of groups like Suntour.

[sailorboy]

mine built up for commuting will have dura ace 9-speed with DT shifters, (simplicity is key with an all-rounder like this) cane creek silver brake levers, a close ratio crankset with 39-48, the outer ring is a TA specialties, and I have a ritchey compact crank I can switch to in case I will be climbing a lot. Probably some silver fenders and nitto noodle bars with a pearl or technomatic stem and probably a 27.0 ritchey seatpost. Oh and the best part is a set of wheels built with shimano 7400 series hubs. The noise they make is sublime.

I agree that silver bits are a must and preferably japanese in origin

most of the parts are at home waiting to go on.

[spacemen3]

I have an RB-1 in the project queue right now, too. I'm still debating what's going on it, but I wouldn't be too concerned about matching components. I have a nice Univega from the early 80's that I've rebuilt with Suntour Superbe derailleurs, Shimano Dura-Ace downtube friction shifters, Shimano InteractiveGlide cassette and chain, Gipiemme Strada crankset, and Nitto stem. It always fetches compliments and rides wonderfully. Whatever you choose, an RB-1 is too cool for brifters. ;)

[gdw]

Another vote for 8 speed Ultegra. It's easy to find the components and they usually are reasonably priced. For brakes single pivot Dia Compe Royal Gran Compe brakes with Tektro/Cane Creek levers are classic and work great.

[rccardr]

Or, perhaps consider Doc's All Time Favorite Combo: Ultegra hubs laced to Open Pro rims, 9 speed 12/25 cassette, D-A dt shifters, 5600 series 105 FD and RD, Truvativ square taper compact crankset, Tektro 530 brakeset and Tektro R200L levers. Your choice of BB depending on whether you prefer loose ball or cartridge.

Everything works super-well together, very durable (some would say bombproof), and not overly expensive if you shop wisely. The FD/RD/brakeset and brake levers are available in either polished or black, so you can match the components to the bike.

I have that setup on two of my favorite riders- an '85 Merckx Corsa Extra and an '87 Schwinn Tempo. Both are...sublime. And fast.

[lhuerta]

Suntour Superbe Pro!!!

Someone had a gruppo for sale recently...will try and dig up the ad.
Lou

[Ken Robb]

I really like my Rambouillet with 9 spd Ultegra triple group and 32 hole Open Pros.

[stephenmarklay]

Now that would be sweet.

Suntour Superbe Pro!!!

Someone had a gruppo for sale recently...will try and dig up the ad.
Lou

[stephenmarklay]

Are and of you running an older 6-7 speed freewheel on a 130mm spaced bike?

[soupless]

I think that bike is definitely a great place for a mish mash of cool stuff. Grant would like it that way, i'd bet....

Congrats on the rad bike.

[John H.]

Careful with the headset.
I don't know if the RB-1 had a slightly oversized headtube, tended to ovalize, or the steel headset that it comes with damaged the frame, but usually when you put an aftermarket headset in they are only hand tight.

[Frankwurst]

[QUOTE=gd For brakes single pivot Dia Compe Royal Gran Compe brakes with Tektro/Cane Creek levers are classic and work great.[/QUOTE]

I can help you out with these if you're so inclined. I was holding on to them for a build I had in mind that isn't going to happen. ;) :beer:

[oliver1850]

You can run a 7 speed cassette on a 130 mm hub. Just add a spacer under the large cog. I haven't had much luck finding 8 speed DT shifters, 7 are much easier to find.

[mike p]

Stephen, your right about old DA stuff being pricey, double so for NOS. What I've done on some similar projects is to use current or late md# DA but use DT shifters. Shimano still makes DT 10speed shifters! It gives the bike a retro feel while being pretty modern ( like new mustangs ). Also wheels will be interchangeable between your other bikes.

Mike

[RFC]

I concur with the opinion that part of the RB-1 mystic is that it is a great platform for a mishmash of intelligently selected components.

My 1989 came to me stock about 6 months ago with Suntour GPX, including DTs. Now it wears Suntour friction barend shifters, DA 7400 RD, GPX FD, 1O5 levers and brakes, 9-speed cassette, and a Deore XT crank with the small ring removed to create a 46/34 compact. The carbon fork is a replacement because, believe it or not, steel forks do crack.

Because of the friction barends, I can run 7, 8, and 9-speed cassettes. Again, mix and match versatility.

Vintage DA is particularly pricey because of it's cult status, which is probably why I have hoarded two sets of 7400 just waiting for the right projects. Also, old DA RDs and shifters are problematic because, in index mode, it is not compatible with other non DA components.

I consider Tricolor to be a wonderful workhorse group and have it on several bikes, running a range of 7-9 speed drivetrains. It works every bit as good as DA and, I think, is quite attractive.

[Germany_chris]

I'm all about new meets old...I would go SRAM on the RB1 more because grant wouldn't pick it..like a V-8 in a 240z..unique..

[RFC]

I'm all about new meets old...I would go SRAM on the RB1 more because grant wouldn't pick it..like a V-8 in a 240z..unique..


Reason enough for me. ;)

[Peter P.]

I'd say skip the vintage mish-mash stuff like the original; it's too much of a hassle to source parts and then worry about replacements.

Throw some modern stuff on there and if you want to tip your hat to the "old" RB-1, shift with barcons; more than 6 gears on a downtube shifter is too much work constantly reaching for the lever. Another barcon tip to keep the bars looking proportionate-I cut a length off the ends of the bars roughly equal to the length of the shifter pod.

As for the mention of the possible ovalized headtube: Use Loctite 680 Retaining Compound, the green stuff.

[stephenmarklay]

That is certainly not a bad idea. Lighter likely too.

Stephen, your right about old DA stuff being pricey, double so for NOS. What I've done on some similar projects is to use current or late md# DA but use DT shifters. Shimano still makes DT 10speed shifters! It gives the bike a retro feel while being pretty modern ( like new mustangs ). Also wheels will be interchangeable between your other bikes.

Mike

[stephenmarklay]

I really appreciate all of this very good -no great input. I am not at all against new although I would prefer and aluminium group not carbon.

The 600 group would be good and very affordable best I can tell.

I am eyeing an "off brand" 90's crank right now so we will see how that goes.

[PJN]

Make sure you get the proper size seatpost, 27.0mm and don't over torque the binder bolt. The RB's have a nice weak point at the seatpost collar and like to snap when over tightened.

[stephenmarklay]

Make sure you get the proper size seatpost, 27.0mm and don't over torque the binder bolt. The RB's have a nice weak point at the seatpost collar and like to snap when over tightened.

Thank you very much for this tidbit. Maybe I should use some carbon paste even though I won't be using carbon?

[Marcusaurelius]

I would use either 9 or 10 speed dura ace shifters downtube shifters. If you can find good 9 speed parts use them--if not 10 speed would work just as well. I found the prices on nos parts to be very high so that's why I lean towards more recent parts.

[mgd]

last generation superbe pro derailleurs, suntour power ratchet or simplex retro shifters, those awesome dia-compe brakes with the hidden spring in either dia-compe or suntour flavor, shimano aero brake levers (dura ace or those generic shimano-labeled from a decade ago), tange or superbe pro headset, superbe pro, dura-ace, or ritchey logic japanese cranks, phil wood bb, nitto crystal fellow seatpost, nitto stem, nitto bars, turbo saddle, dura-ace or superbe pro fw hubs, dura-ace or 600 twist tooth freewheel, bright silver chain, mks rx-1, suntour superbe pro track or cheapo mks sylvan campy-copy track pedals.

easy!

[stephenmarklay]

That would be a lot easier if I had it all already! I do have the pearl stem and it looks perfect l on it. Peter white has the correct size nitto post long enough to be useful for me and a nitto mark's bar will round it out. I have a super be pro FD. I also think my beater set of wheels are going to be some older mavic askiums. They are in good shape and just collecting dust. They don't look half bad with it either. It has a 7400 DA headset that spins smooth so it will stay. I guess I need to decide if I want indexing or not. 6/7/8 speeds are fine but 7 or 8 lets me do cassette.


last generation superbe pro derailleurs, suntour power ratchet or simplex retro shifters, those awesome dia-compe brakes with the hidden spring in either dia-compe or suntour flavor, shimano aero brake levers (dura ace or those generic shimano-labeled from a decade ago), tange or superbe pro headset, superbe pro, dura-ace, or ritchey logic japanese cranks, phil wood bb, nitto crystal fellow seatpost, nitto stem, nitto bars, turbo saddle, dura-ace or superbe pro fw hubs, dura-ace or 600 twist tooth freewheel, bright silver chain, mks rx-1, suntour superbe pro track or cheapo mks campy-copy track pedals.

easy!

[Fivethumbs]

I gathered up a full 8 speed 105sc group on ebay (piece by piece) some used, some NOS Model Nos (1055 and 1056). That stuff works flawlessly. It's not as sought after so it's easier to get at a good price.

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks for all of these really good suggestions. It has been a little funny as I am so non-committal on which way to go that I am just buying cool stuff, from the period, and now the bike is starting to take a little form.

I noticed a NOS Ritchey Road Logic crank on Ebay and decided that this bike NEEDED that crank. It's the old Sugino 110BCD with a square taper. I picked up the BB for it as well.

Since I have not decided on gearing or allied myself with party lines (shimano, everything else) I am having a bugger of a time making a move.

However, I decided to buy some hubs last night from a forum member. They are Mavic 501's (36h for the durability). I also bought a Sachs Aris 7-speed freewheel with the gearing I wanted (12-28) as I have a few good local climbs and I will challenge myself with some hard centuries (gran fondo types too). I think I am going to go neo-retro here and use a new wide rim like the A23 or HED C2 as I will have at least a 25 or maybe a 28 tire on the bike.

From the little I read it looks like the freewheel can index with most systems (although I am not sure how well) but I already have a Supurbe Pro FD so it might make sense just to pick up matching rear and shifters to match. Although DA 7400 would be nice too (already have the matching headset).

[Tony Edwards]

I gathered up a full 8 speed 105sc group on ebay (piece by piece) some used, some NOS Model Nos (1055 and 1056). That stuff works flawlessly. It's not as sought after so it's easier to get at a good price.

I kind of like that era of 105 better than Ultegra since it's silver - if memory serves all the Ultegra stuff was painted gray.

When I was working in a shop I sold a young man a 1993 RB-1 and he showed up at the shop a couple of months later with the same frame bearing full Record Ergo. Worked for me!

I love the idea of Superbe Pro on an RB-1. An early-90s Mavic group would also be an interesting choice, even if it's not Japanese. The same era MB-0 had Mavic cranks and BB, so it's not without precedent.

[stephenmarklay]

Mavic group -hmm. Did they work well? I have only seen a few and then that electronic one.

[Tony Edwards]

Mavic group -hmm. Did they work well? I have only seen a few and then that electronic one.

http://www.tearsforgears.com/2009/11/bicycle-guide-on-1990s-mavic-group.html

Honestly I've never used this stuff - my only experience with non-wheel Mavic components was with the cranks and BB on my MB-0. I always liked the engineering behind it - the Mavic stuff seemed to be the best-built components of that era (though I have no doubt that the contemporary Shimano parts were the best-shifting).

[stephenmarklay]

Does anyone have experience trying to fit long reach brakes 47 min reach to an RB-1 (mine is the 93 with Ritchey crown).

[stephenmarklay]

I finally decided what I wanted to do with this bike for now. I picked up a nice period 7 speed 105SC group. Its all NOS so it will be a nice looking and function well. It may weigh a pound or so more than going high end but the price was reasonable (275 - shipped) and for a bike like this it will be perfect.

Here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320758382351&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

I need to get a few odds and ends like a nice seatpost, seat, tires (want some conti GP4 seasons in 28) pedals, and decide what I will do with wheels. I have some newer Mavics for now and some Mavic 501 hubs that I will likely build up with some Velocity A23's.

This out to be a fun ride pretty soon.

[jr59]

I built my new to me trek 620 with;

Campy record BB and crank
nito stem, and mustache bars
Phil Woods hubs 40 spoke rear and 32 front
7 speed mega shift freewheel
Sachs-huret front and rear d-rails
Sun Tour brakes, levers, and bar shifters.
Tubus rear rack
Oh yea, handlebra wrap.

It rides SWEET!

I think Grant Peterson would be proud!

Sorry no pics yet!

[stephenmarklay]

I built my new to me trek 620 with;

Campy record BB and crank
nito stem, and mustache bars
Phil Woods hubs 40 spoke rear and 32 front
7 speed mega shift freewheel
Sachs-huret front and rear d-rails
Sun Tour brakes, levers, and bar shifters.
Tubus rear rack
Oh yea, handlebra wrap.

It rides SWEET!

I think Grant Peterson would be proud!

Sorry no pics yet!

Got me the Handlebra as well :) Wrapping up the Nitto dreams that flow to the nitto pearl.

I just couldn't do the eclectic. My personality just doesn't allow it :)