Montana: cycling and other info

[William]

Can anyone who lives, has lived, or has vacation property in Montana share some information about the State (publicly or privately)?

Pros and cons.
Current real estate climate
Economic climate
cycling scene
Overall attitude toward cyclists in general.
Good towns or cities to live in or near.
Good rural areas to live in or near.

I know I can look some of this up but if anyone can lend some first hand experience it would be much appreciated.


Thanks,
William

[gearguywb]

You should contact Carl Strong or Dave Kirk and get some local color from them.

[Bradford]

I have ridden in Montana on a tour I did from Missoula to Steamboat...which puts the Montana (and Montana-like riding) from Missoula through Jackson WY.

I loved the riding in Montana. Real Rocky Mountain climbs, great scenery, not a ton of cars on the road, good camping for touring, and nice folks along the way. The problem I had is the same as Colorado, the wind can kick up and make you feel like a hero or a schmuck, depending which way it is going. I had one day coming down off of Chief Joseph Pass through Big Hole National Battlefield with a 35 mph tailwind and had the best day of my life. The next day the wind had switched and I felt like I was towing a boat.

I have really come to love the riding out west; multi-hour climbs followed by 20-30 minute descents. It is a great place for long days in the saddle and multi-day tours. You may have to drive a little longer to get to all the rides you would want to do around the state, and eventually around the entire west, but it is worth it.

It is a lot different than the rolling hills around The State of Rhode Island and the Providence Plantations, so it takes a while to get use to it. But, the more I ride in the Rockies, the more I like it.


P.S. The skiing is better than the skiing in RI.

[jr59]

Dave Kirk is your friend on this!

[HenryA]

Have you ever visited? Compared to the eastern U. S., Montana is pretty rural most anywhere you go. Even in the cities you're not but 15 or 20 minutes from middle of nowhere - I love that part. And it snows out there -- it really snows.

I'm not that hot on road riding out west, usually I ride off road when I go there because the off road riding is simply spectacular and I live in a place that has pretty wonderful road riding. But that's just my preference.

IMO, Bozeman would be good place to live and there's tons of riding all around. As mentioned by others, the Kirks are an expert source of advice on Montana.

[Karin Kirk]

OK, here's my take:

Pros and cons:
Pros - it's really empty!
Cons - ditto.
To be more specific, you gotta like rural and small town life to be happy here. You won't find great shopping, symphony or world class dining. But if you like your spaces wide open then you may find yourself happy here. Cracks me up when people complain of the traffic in town because they had to sit through a red light.

The other con is the weather. Winter is super cold and long. Spring is just an extension of winter. Summer begins 4th of July and is hot and dry. September is the sweet spot and then winter comes again.

Current real estate climate
Definitely a buyer's market still. Places like Bozeman and ranches with riverfront property are not all that cheap. Outlying areas are a good buy.

Economic climate
Decent, I'd say better than the US average. Unemployment is better than US average, as are foreclosure rates. But even the good times here are not all that good. Income is generally low compared to the coasts. Professional jobs are hard to come by. The successful people bring their jobs with them and/or are very creative in making a way for themselves.
The MT economy is dominated by agriculture, tourism and extractive industries. So that's where the jobs are.

There is some resentment toward people who come here with pocketfulls of money earned elsewhere and drive up real estate prices and live conspicuously. There is a strong gradient between people who have a 2nd home here and those who are living on scratch. That said, you are likely to find both types of people sharing the same chairlift at Bridger Bowl.


cycling scene
Decent. Actually I think New England has better road riding. There simply are not that many roads here and many of the nice cycling roads have 70mph speed limits. There is certainly a limited number of good routes. But those routes are lovely indeed.
The MTB and fire road potential is huge. But mud season is long so that riding doesn't start until July.


Overall attitude toward cyclists in general.
Generally good.

Good towns or cities to live in or near.
Kalispell, Bozeman, Helena.
I'm not too keen on Missoula but others will disagree.
Definitely avoid Billings (sorry Billings!)

Good rural areas to live in or near.
Red Lodge, Churchill, Flathead Lake, Paradise Valley... geez this is a tough question. There are a million rural places. Describe what you like and maybe I can narrow it.

Hope that helps! And all of this is just my own take on things!

[Louis]

The other con is the weather. Winter is super cold and long. Spring is just an extension of winter. Summer begins 4th of July and is hot and dry. September is the sweet spot and then winter comes again.

One of the first things I would do when considering a permanent move (or buying a second home) is get a bunch of NWS data on temp, humidity and precip, decide what ranges I wanted to live in, and look for locations that maximized the good stuff. (I guess that's how folks end up in Santa Barbara.)

Tools like this are also fun: http://www.findyourspot.com/

[Birddog]

Karin pretty much nailed it but I'd include Missoula. Pick an area that isn't far from a ski area or you'll hate the winter. Huckleberries are a nice bonus. Polson on the S end of Flathead Lake is another nice place, but smaller than the others.

[Climb01742]

is there some big sky in big willie's future? here is an interesting op-ed piece from today's nyt written by montana's governor:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/opinion/cutting-costs-the-montana-way.html?ref=opinion

i've spent more time in wyoming than montana but the vibe is similar i think. for me, william, the vibe in the pacific northwest is more to my taste, as is the weather. the weather on the northern plains can be brutal (like in eastern oregon in winter, but more.) it certainly would offer you a contrast to what you probably experienced in oregon.

[jr59]

Ok William!!!!

Whats up? Are you thinking about becoming Dave Kirks helper? Or what?

[grateful]

I spent time in Billings (yuck, 3 month stay), Bozeman and Missoula. By far my favorite was Bozeman.

The winter is long but dry (low humidity). The summer can't be beat.

The wonderful thing about Bozeman (and Missoula to a lesser extent) is the amount of culture offered in such a rural area. Because both cities are home to a large university you limit the narrow mindedness of most rural environs.

The disadvantage is the cost of living. You would think that a rural community will be relatively low in comparison but, in this case, it is not.

Good luck.

[Birddog]

Because both cities are home to a large university you limit the narrow mindedness of most rural environs.
That's a pretty telling statement.

[Louis]

That's a pretty telling statement.

True. Plenty of narrow-mindedness in big cities also.

It's just that in a larger populated place you're more likely to find a critical-mass of whatever social affinity group turns you on.

[William]

Thank you for all the replies folks. The long range goal of the William Clan has always been a return to Oregon at some point in the future. We have of late been talking about the possibility of an alternative location and Montana has been coming up a lot in conversations. We both have been through the State numerous times, but not for long periods, and not long enough to get a true feel of residency vs Touring.

We like people. We enjoy interacting with our friends. But when it comes to our home we are more comfortable with our neighbors being at least a half mile away... or more. We're not antisocial, just enjoy our privacy. With that in mind a rural area is more our preference. Wooded mountain areas or an area where the mountains meet the plains would be ideal. Nearby lakes would be considered. Close but not in a University town would be a plus. As Karen mentioned, careers not dependent on specific geographic location is pretty much our situation at this time. I remember the attitude of many Oregonians toward Californians moving into the State and driving up property values so it wouldn't surprise me to get a bit of that moving into another State. No big deal there.

At this point it's just discussions and long term planning, unless of course Dave wants to hire me to weld pipe. I can do it, but I don't think he would want to put his name on anything I touch. ;)



William

[sam.g]

I just returned from a self-contained tour from Missoula to Frisco with a leg through Jackson following Adventure Cycling's Trans America Bike route. So my comments are from a touring perspective, I only spent two nights in Missoula, everywhere else was just an overnight.

Overall I liked cycling Montana, nice shoulders, limited traffic, generally polite drivers, good scenery, low humidity and some serious climbs (Chief Joseph Pass). Not much in the small towns along the way but people seemed generally friendly, easy to strike up a conversation in a bar. I also happened to like Missoula, gave me a Portland-like feeling.

The downside were headwinds, big sky open range means serious winds if luck isn't on your side that day. Our last day in Montana we rode ~73 miles from Ennis to West Yellowstone, which took nearly the entire day due to strong southerly 20-30 mph winds. In fact the first 25 miles took me almost 3 1/2 hours! Panniers also seemed to act as drag chute, making any kind of forward progress into the wind worse.

Overall I like Montana and much better than Wyoming especially east of Togwotee Pass.

Sam in Cincy

[William]

I just returned from a self-contained tour from Missoula to Frisco with a leg through Jackson following Adventure Cycling's Trans America Bike route. So my comments are from a touring perspective, I only spent two nights in Missoula, everywhere else was just an overnight.

Overall I liked cycling Montana, nice shoulders, limited traffic, generally polite drivers, good scenery, low humidity and some serious climbs (Chief Joseph Pass). Not much in the small towns along the way but people seemed generally friendly, easy to strike up a conversation in a bar. I also happened to like Missoula, gave me a Portland-like feeling.

The downside were headwinds, big sky open range means serious winds if luck isn't on your side that day. Our last day in Montana we rode ~73 miles from Ennis to West Yellowstone, which took nearly the entire day due to strong southerly 20-30 mph winds. In fact the first 25 miles took me almost 3 1/2 hours! Panniers also seemed to act as drag chute, making any kind of forward progress into the wind worse.

Overall I like Montana and much better than Wyoming especially east of Togwotee Pass.

Sam in Cincy

Sounds like a great time. I spent the night in Missoula once as well. Met some nice people and had a good time. A buddy and former team mate of mine from Wyoming always talked about the wind.... and he was one strong rider because of it.



William

[beungood]

Thank you for all the replies folks. The long range goal of the William Clan has always been a return to Oregon at some point in the future. We have of late been talking about the possibility of an alternative location and Montana has been coming up a lot in conversations. We both have been through the State numerous times, but not for long periods, and not long enough to get a true feel of residency vs Touring.

We like people. We enjoy interacting with our friends. But when it comes to our home we are more comfortable with our neighbors being at least a half mile away... or more. We're not antisocial, just enjoy our privacy. With that in mind a rural area is more our preference. Wooded mountain areas or an area where the mountains meet the plains would be ideal. Nearby lakes would be considered. Close but not in a University town would be a plus. As Karen mentioned, careers not dependent on specific geographic location is pretty much our situation at this time. I remember the attitude of many Oregonians toward Californians moving into the State and driving up property values so it wouldn't surprise me to get a bit of that moving into another State. No big deal there.

At this point it's just discussions and long term planning

William

Thought I had logistics for private training worked out, this will really challenge me now!

[William]

Thought I had logistics for private training worked out, this will really challenge me now!

Down the road Bro. You've got time for good training. :)



William