Wheel Questions...

[slowandsteady]

Wondering about a new set of wheels and with all the options am trying to decide what would be "best"...

I am 175lbs, tall and thin. 48 yr old average rider with average watts output. 3-4 hundred miles a month when I have time. Ride recreationally in the northeast and do not race (though I used to). Most of my riding is flat to rolling hills. Rarely on steep stuff but enjoy it when I get a chance. Predominantly looking to keep my rides smooth and comfy, speed is second to comfort.

I know each has it's own design and feel but trying to see what the forum preferences and thoughts are on each...

Road Tubeless: I have a set and like them very much. Limited tire selection and mostly 23mm width. I have to say only marginally smoother than my 32 hole mavic OP, 3x wheels with 25c tires

New "wide rim" Clinchers like Hed C2 or Velocity A23 rims. These look fantastic and all reports seem to really like them. Wondering if anyone can compare them to road tubeless?

Tubular: If i go this route I would strongly consider a very light pair so that i have a "different" wheel in the stable. I rarely if ever ride in the rain.

I know the lighter par of Tubies will give me the very best acceleration and hill climbing ability but will a 11-1200gm wheel be durable and last? and will the ride be that much more noticeable over my 1500 gram tubeless set up?

All thoughts appreciated

[Kontact]

Have you considered adapting an A23 to tubeless? Seems like the best of both worlds, since the A23 will spread the 23c tubeless tire out for a larger contact patch and more tubie feeling ride.

I have not ridden tubeless yet, but it would be my inclinanation to try different standard clincher tires and exotic tubes before I made the leap.


We spend so much time mounting tubulars the right way, I would never bother with them for myself.

[Germany_chris]

I have Centaur hubs laced to Omega rims (tubular) and they feel lighter than the 1250gm clinchers they replaced. I think it's the tires not the wheels especially since I have Tufo S33's glued on now..

[oldpotatoe]

Have you considered adapting an A23 to tubeless? Seems like the best of both worlds, since the A23 will spread the 23c tubeless tire out for a larger contact patch and more tubie feeling ride.

I have not ridden tubeless yet, but it would be my inclinanation to try different standard clincher tires and exotic tubes before I made the leap.


We spend so much time mounting tubulars the right way, I would never bother with them for myself.

I use them myself, tubulars, and not trying to start another this vs that argument but if you mount tubulars 'the right way', you know it's really not a big deal. About 20-30 minutes to 'do it right'. Been doing it this way for 25 years, have never had a tubie roll, on my wheels nor any customer's wheels.

BTW, altho as a wrench, yes I know those who have converted a standard clincher rim to tubeless but as a bike shop, I don't advocate it, don't so it in the shop. In a liability sense, tubeless specific tires onto tubeless ready rims/wheels, thanks. IMHO.

[oldpotatoe]

Wondering about a new set of wheels and with all the options am trying to decide what would be "best"...

I am 175lbs, tall and thin. 48 yr old average rider with average watts output. 3-4 hundred miles a month when I have time. Ride recreationally in the northeast and do not race (though I used to). Most of my riding is flat to rolling hills. Rarely on steep stuff but enjoy it when I get a chance. Predominantly looking to keep my rides smooth and comfy, speed is second to comfort.

I know each has it's own design and feel but trying to see what the forum preferences and thoughts are on each...

Road Tubeless: I have a set and like them very much. Limited tire selection and mostly 23mm width. I have to say only marginally smoother than my 32 hole mavic OP, 3x wheels with 25c tires

New "wide rim" Clinchers like Hed C2 or Velocity A23 rims. These look fantastic and all reports seem to really like them. Wondering if anyone can compare them to road tubeless?

Tubular: If i go this route I would strongly consider a very light pair so that i have a "different" wheel in the stable. I rarely if ever ride in the rain.

I know the lighter par of Tubies will give me the very best acceleration and hill climbing ability but will a 11-1200gm wheel be durable and last? and will the ride be that much more noticeable over my 1500 gram tubeless set up?

All thoughts appreciated

'Best acceleration' is most likely due to the stiffness of carbon rims, not the weight differences, the only way you are going to get a reliable wheelset in the 1150 gram range.

I doubt saving a pound, 454 grams on a 190-195 pound, 86,000 gram or so 'package(rider/bike/stuff) will have a significant impact on hill climbing ability.

If you want to spend the $, I'd say a set of carbon tubulars.

[FlashUNC]

Just got a set of HED C2's laced to a pair of Chorus hubs I had lying around. Really fantastic rims. Can't recommend them highly enough.

[Kontact]

I use them myself, tubulars, and not trying to start another this vs that argument but if you mount tubulars 'the right way', you know it's really not a big deal. About 20-30 minutes to 'do it right'. Been doing it this way for 25 years, have never had a tubie roll, on my wheels nor any customer's wheels.

BTW, altho as a wrench, yes I know those who have converted a standard clincher rim to tubeless but as a bike shop, I don't advocate it, don't so it in the shop. In a liability sense, tubeless specific tires onto tubeless ready rims/wheels, thanks. IMHO.
I don't know how you manage to saturate the tape and get adequate tack in one application. I guess there's lots of definitions of 'right', but the last time a customer did it themselves in one day he rolled a tire in the Pyrenees.

I would strongly suggest that anyone doing it themselves get at least two layers of glue on rim and tire, with drying time between.


If Stan's, tubeless rim maker and tubeless advocate, thinks it is okay to use non-tubeless rims for tubeless tires, I'm not going to pretend to know better.



I think it is sometimes very strange what you are, and are not, conservative about.

[Kontact]

On acceleration:

One can definitely feel a lighter wheel, even from departing a traffic light. But being able to sense the difference in accelerating mass isn't the same thing as it actually impacting your race times. Human senses are really amazing, but not always useful for detecting important differences.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't know how you manage to saturate the tape and get adequate tack in one application. I guess there's lots of definitions of 'right', but the last time a customer did it themselves in one day he rolled a tire in the Pyrenees.

I would strongly suggest that anyone doing it themselves get at least two layers of glue on rim and tire, with drying time between.


If Stan's, tubeless rim maker and tubeless advocate, thinks it is okay to use non-tubeless rims for tubeless tires, I'm not going to pretend to know better.



I think it is sometimes very strange what you are, and are not, conservative about.

I use Panaracer glue almost exclusively and IMHO, it doesn't take hours to let the glue dry between applications. I guess the test is whether or not a tire rolls. I use 3 layers, tire-rim-tire-rim-tire-----rim, mount, let set for 24 hours.

As for tubeless, the rim makers don't advocate using their rims for tubeless. Stan's knows about his products and I'm not telling you what to do, I'm saying what I do in my shop.

Always wanted to be strange and what I'm conservative about makes me pretty comfy in my own skin. How I glue on tubualrs isn't radical at all(if that's what you are referring to). How my teacher in 1985 taught me, how I've done it for 2.5 decades, works...

And lastly, I still think the 'acceleration' somebody feels is more due to a very stiff, most times, carbon rim rather than a result of weight.

From a 1400 gram aluminum wheelset vs a 1200 gram carbon wheelset. The carbon wheelset 'feels' like it is accelerating better/faster/easier. Doubt it's because of 200 gram difference, at least in MHO.

[Germany_chris]

I use Panaracer glue almost exclusively and IMHO, it doesn't take hours to let the glue dry between applications. I guess the test is whether or not a tire rolls. I use 3 layers, tire-rim-tire-rim-tire-----rim, mount, let set for 24 hours.

As for tubeless, the rim makers don't advocate using their rims for tubeless. Stan's knows about his products and I'm not telling you what to do, I'm saying what I do in my shop.

Always wanted to be strange and what I'm conservative about makes me pretty comfy in my own skin. How I glue on tubualrs isn't radical at all(if that's what you are referring to). How my teacher in 1985 taught me, how I've done it for 2.5 decades, works...

And lastly, I still think the 'acceleration' somebody feels is more due to a very stiff, most times, carbon rim rather than a result of weight.

From a 1400 gram aluminum wheelset vs a 1200 gram carbon wheelset. The carbon wheelset 'feels' like it is accelerating better/faster/easier. Doubt it's because of 200 gram difference, at least in MHO.

+1

[trevorluke]

I'd stear you away from tubulars. I've riden them in the past, but gave them up for clinchers till recents. They do ride great, but the questions is if the time and effort of gluing is worth it. Really it depends how lucky you are with flats and how much free time you have.

[dd74]

I as well believe acceleration/lightness has to do with stiffness of the wheel. It's the flex that makes for a slow-feeling climb.

[forrestw]

I say yes to tubulars, worth the slight extra effort.

At 215# I found that a Mavic Reflex rim (36H) didn't hold up well enough on the rear but the one I've got mounted on the front has been fine. At your weight, the Reflex should work fine on the rear.

I have to agree with comments in this and other recent threads that carbon rims make a huge difference in feel and that this comes along with a degree of 'chattery' on the road surface that you may or may not like. Mavic Reflex rims weigh about the same as the Zipp 404 tubular rim and feel hugely different.

[Kontact]

I have all alloy wheelsets. The two lightest are an 1700 gram alloy wheelset and a 1400 gram alloy wheelset made from Kinlin XR-200s and Revolution spokes. I doubt it is stiffer, but it does accelerate quicker.

I don't doubt that the relative stiffness of some wheelsets can affect this feeling, but my example shows that a lighter, more flexible wheelset can definitely have this quality.

And, as I said, it doesn't affect anything much in the real world. But it can be detected.