Can Campy Survive?

[prometheus20]

The other day I brought my Campagnolo equipped bike into the LBS to have some work done. The young mechanic said it was a good day to come in because "our Campy expert is here today. Guess which one he is."
I looked behind the counter and spotted the oldest mechanic and said "well that must be him there."
"You're right." he said with a smile.
All this has me thinking even more about something that has crossed my mind frequently. Can Campy survive? From what I see where I live in the North East, the company has essentially lost two generations of cycling enthusiasts. There's a lot of reasons for this, most recently the emergence of Sram as a major player. Anyone have thoughts on the topic...?

[Aaron O]

The other day I brought my Campagnolo equipped bike into the LBS to have some work done. The young mechanic said it was a good day to come in because "our Campy expert is here today. Guess which one he is."
I looked behind the counter and spotted the oldest mechanic and said "well that must be him there."
"You're right." he said with a smile.
All this has me thinking even more about something that has crossed my mind frequently. Can Campy survive? From what I see where I live in the North East, the company has essentially lost two generations of cycling enthusiasts. There's a lot of reasons for this, most recently the emergence of Sram as a major player. Anyone have thoughts on the topic...?

I could be mistaken, but aren't their sales up of late? Yes - they can survive. They make a price competitive product that is superior to their competitors.

[AngryScientist]

maybe it's my general mechanical background, but the idea of a campy expert mechanic is laughable. there are some intricacies, but for the most part, bicycle mechanics are by no means difficult. any competent experienced bike mechanic should be able to figure anything about a campy drivetrain out with very little effort.

in the end, mechanical systems: shifters just pull and release cable and deraillers move a chain side to side, no rocket science involved. you own a few special tools and you're golden.

[jr59]

Campy sells 100% of what the are able to make.

So without expanding their factories...

They just don't spec OEM bikes. The LBS that you were at is just to lazy to work on campy.

[Joachim]

I doubt that they can survive... Therefore I suggest that everyone send me their Campy 11 speed components. No use denying the inevitable. Resistance is futile. I'll take that no good, technologically unsound, down right dangerous components of your hands, as a gesture of good will.

[torquer]

Based upon the poll results in another thread, Campy will do just fine with this bunch, at least. We just may have to drive a bit further to a shop with the appropriate skills, tools and inventory.
Sort of like tubular tires; we don't expect them in every shop, but they remain an option for those willing to search them out.

I do disagree about the impact of SRAM, though. Based upon my own limited observations, SRAM users made the leap from Shimano, not Campy. That may be because the Japanese long ago cleaned the Italian company's plate in terms of market share, but I just don't see SRAM's appeal (low relative cost and weight-weanie bragging rights) crossing over to the $600 cassette crowd ;)

[cdn_bacon]

We elitists always survive :)

Not many shops around me deal with the "Cramp and go slow" line unless they are higher end.

my concern ( to switch subjects) is this... how can these be the same price?

Actually why is the 10spd $5 more....


2008 10 speed Campagnolo Record Ergo Shifters

Brand New in the Box New Old Stock 10 Speed Ergopower Shifters Campagnolo Cable & housing kit is Included. If you don't need cables email or...

$325.00


2010 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed Ergo Shifters

Comes new with original Box 2010 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed Ergo Shifters Genuine Campagnolo Cables and housings are included Velo Mine...

$320.00

As seen on velomine

[MattTuck]

I interviewed the head of marketing at SRAM a few years back, and he said the primary reason that they were able to steal so much market share was because they could deliver product on time to the big boys like trek and specialized. Something apparently Shimano was not good at.

I'm not sure how the market shares changed (ie. did SRAM take market share from just Shimano, or from both Shimano and Campy?) but that was his argument as to how SRAM was able to grow share.

As far as where Campy is headed, it's hard to say. I think that entry level riders are introduced to SRAM and Shimano on their bikes and there's just a comfort level there when they want to upgrade.

I've never used a high end campy group, but at the end of the day, shifting can only get so good, weights can only get so light, etc. Innovation is all good, but there are probably other factors that OEMs and end users factor when making a purchase decision. In the case of SRAM, it was timely delivery to OEMs. For campy, it might be something else... the brand could be due for a refresh.

Then again, I don't think campy wants to be the 'popular' gruppo. I think part of the allure is they're a little out of the mainstream. The question then becomes how do you grow and maintain relevance while retaining the perception of your brand...

I remember reading a story a few years ago about the Swiss watch makers basically starting a trade school (I think in West Virginia) to teach Americans how to build mechanical watches. The reason wasn't to create competition, but so that there would be a group of trained watchmakers to replace the aging population that fixed Swiss watches....

[prometheus20]

I was not aware that Campy can sell 100% of what they make or that their sales are up of late. As a devotee, that's good news!
I like what someone said about how a bike mechanic should be able to work on all brands since it isn't rocket science. Unfortunately, in my experience, I come across many who seem to cop an attitude about working on Campy. It gets an undeserved reputation for being finicky and difficult. I'm no mechanic, but can do basic stuff. And I have found that in fact Campy components have a "set it and forget it" quality, and they last a long, long time.

The fact that fewer bikes- and almost no entry level bikes- come Campy equipped can be a problem going forward for the company. I'm not sure that you can just concede the "new rider" market to other companies, because when those new riders want to upgrade, chances are they will stick to a better version of what they already know.

Yes its true that there are plenty of Campy enthusiasts on this board- but lets face it- how many of us are under 45 or even 40?

[fourflys]

so I've had the pleasure of owning all three manufacturers and can safely say all three work just as well as the other and all three are just as easy to work on as the others, assuming you have the right tools...

IF Campy starts to have problems, it will be because the diehards will start to die out... I think this will take a long time, but it could happen...

I say this because I used to do model trains and it may be a good comparative... basically the avg age of the model train enthusiasts has gone up and up... these are the people who were able to see and ride trains on a daily basis and so that's what they knew... I'm sure in areas that have large intermodal sites like San Pedro or NYC, there are still younger enthusiasts because they see the trains regularly... BTW the amount of passenger trains being modeled seems to have gone way down... can you imagine why?

the reason I say all this is since Campy is only seen on a VERY limited number of production bikes (at least here in the US), less and less riders will have been exposed to it by the time they can afford to have that custom or high-end frameset... humans are creatures of habit and comfort, we tend to go with what we know and are comfortable with...

BTW- I'd be interested to know where the information that Campy sells all they make above came from... I routinely see new Campy stuff for sale in select shops and online... doesn't seem to be a shortage...

[fourflys]

Yes its true that there are plenty of Campy enthusiasts on this board- but lets face it- how many of us are under 45 or even 40?

I am! :banana:

of course I just sold all my Campy stuff.... it's kind of funny I sold it not long after I sold my Mercedes for Toyota, kind of for the same reasons (costs and for a change...)

I think we are on the same page though... my response above just took forever to type... :D

[FlashUNC]

Yes its true that there are plenty of Campy enthusiasts on this board- but lets face it- how many of us are under 45 or even 40?

I'm well under that threshold, and am pretty much a lifetime customer for Campy now, unless someone else really comes out with some slicks stuff. Do I ride Record or Super Record? No, pretty much all Veloce and Centaur for me, but its every bit as nice as the Ultegra stuff I used to use.

I'd say contrary to the common complaint with Campy, you can get just as much value out of their groups and components than the other major manufacturers.

[Kontact]

If Campy could survive the birth of indexing in the '80s, I'm sure they can survive anything.

I do always wonder what their various forays into MTB, cheap groups, etc do to their bottom line, but as long as they tow the line on their core racing stuff, people will keep buying. Like anything that expensive, buyers are unlikely to voice their discontent when it doesn't shift perfectly, which helps preserve their status. Not having mid or lower-line parts also keeps the reputation clean.

I'd say the best thing they could do is not expand, and just keep charging all the market can bear. Exclusivity sells better than any specific real world quality.

[prometheus20]

Hi Fourflys,
That is pretty funny. But it reminds me of another myth about campy: namely the cost. Yes the Super Record is priced sky high, but unless you are a racer or weight weenie, the Athena is more than adequate and is reasonably priced. Same goes for Centaur.

Why would you get rid of your Campy stuff to save money if you've already got it? It doesn't cost nearly as much to maintain as the Mercedes:)

Flash Unc:
Good point about value in Campy's lower gruppos. Hope to hear from some other not- so -old -as- me enthusiasts too.

[FixedNotBroken]

The other day I brought my Campagnolo equipped bike into the LBS to have some work done. The young mechanic said it was a good day to come in because "our Campy expert is here today. Guess which one he is."
I looked behind the counter and spotted the oldest mechanic and said "well that must be him there."
"You're right." he said with a smile.
All this has me thinking even more about something that has crossed my mind frequently. Can Campy survive? From what I see where I live in the North East, the company has essentially lost two generations of cycling enthusiasts. There's a lot of reasons for this, most recently the emergence of Sram as a major player. Anyone have thoughts on the topic...?

Campagnolo WILL survive..I also don't believe them to be trying to be IMO the "main stream". A bit too classy for that. I couldn't agree more with the 'oldest mechanic' line though. The shop here in Seattle that I had build up the Cervelo knows Campy well, they are a Colnago, Serotta dealer and many are Campy equipped. They all could work on Campy but they sent me to a guy who had been doing it for over 30 years and he's THE BEST they say. The manager said he was one of the best on the west coast if not the best. I would pick OldPotatoe over him if I could but I don't know if Peter does bike builds then ships if you cover the shipping :p

The shop that I go to where I am from is very competent. They are my shop for life and all of them know Campy very well and set it up perfectly, they just don't have it down to an art like Peter does so I doubt they know how to rebuild shifters and what not but they do know it very well.

Yes, all three work and shift but the longevity of Campy, and how it functionally works and it's durability is the best. Yes, I guess stepping into another "Campy vs. Shimano vs. SRAM debate" but I have owned all three groups and will never switch to another. What SRAM does well is market themselves, hence why they are doing so well and sell so much. Let me ask this..can ANYONE guess how many SRAM commercials there were total in the TDF? I seemed to see one every time there was a commercial break, and it was annoying. Campagnolo still sells a lot of components and they don't have to advertise like this. I will keep repping it that's for sure..

[Pete Serotta]

And also in racing and the TDF. Shimano works well but folks like SRAM also.


In the pecking order of longevity and "quality" Shimano and Campy are normally mentioned first. It really depends on what puts a smile on your face.


The market for CAMPY in the usa is smaller than Europe, but that does not mean it is extinct.

Look at Ferrari, Porsche, Rolls, etc.......a market for a product is just that. How old the service rep is- is immaterial- and in most instances it can be a plus.


As to an older gentleman working on the CAMPY so what, and does that mean you are old also??? :D

, I have a 20 year old that is excellent on CAMPY but then he is also excellent on most mechanical bike items. (AND I am more that three times older than him.) :D

[FixedNotBroken]

I am! :banana:

of course I just sold all my Campy stuff.... it's kind of funny I sold it not long after I sold my Mercedes for Toyota, kind of for the same reasons (costs and for a change...)

I think we are on the same page though... my response above just took forever to type... :D

I am well under 40 as well..'kind of for the same reasons (costs and for a change... :D' this is what will kill Campy :crap: (just kidding). He "Made the leap", oh well :p

[fourflys]

Why would you get rid of your Campy stuff to save money if you've already got it? It doesn't cost nearly as much to maintain as the Mercedes:)
.


well, I got a bike that happened to have SRAM on it and actually like the way SRAM shifts (this was an older Force/Rival build that had been raced and is still going strong)... I had taken the Chorus 11 stuff off the Litespeed I sold... from my experience I can get components in Rival/Force or Ultegra that performs just as well as my Campy 11 did and they are much cheaper form my research... also, I do believe the consumables are a bit cheaper when not Campy... and it seems there are always so many good deals on wheels that happen to NOT be Campy...

as I said, I had no performance issues with Campy at all, but neither do I with Shimano/SRAM... I just think IF Campy eventually falls by the wayside, it will be because they don't do OEM for the most part...

but to each his own and I'm glad there are people passionate about what they ride, it makes it fun...

[fourflys]

He "Made the leap", oh well :p

I'm just as likely to leap somewhere else in a couple years... I'm kind of a manwhore when it comes to bikes... :D

[54ny77]

pasta lasts longer than sushi.

[FixedNotBroken]

well, I got a bike that happened to have SRAM on it and actually like the way SRAM shifts (this was an older Force/Rival build that had been raced and is still going strong)... I had taken the Chorus 11 stuff off the Litespeed I sold... from my experience I can get components in Rival/Force or Ultegra that performs just as well as my Campy 11 did and they are much cheaper form my research... also, I do believe the consumables are a bit cheaper when not Campy... and it seems there are always so many good deals on wheels that happen to NOT be Campy...

as I said, I had no performance issues with Campy at all, but neither do I with Shimano/SRAM... I just think IF Campy eventually falls by the wayside, it will be because they don't do OEM for the most part...

but to each his own and I'm glad there are people passionate about what they ride, it makes it fun...

Well stated..I agree with you I just love what I ride and it's comfortable and perfect for ME. And picking what you like, and not what others like is key.

[FixedNotBroken]

I'm just as likely to leap somewhere else in a couple years... I'm kind of a manwhore when it comes to bikes... :D

+1.. :banana:

And he admits his bike addiction..right there with you on my end!

[OperaLover]

But low and behold it is still alive and thriving (particularly here in the U.S. and maybe Japan). Campy users will likely still be here for a long time to come, too. Campy has that je ne sais quoi that the others don't have. Myself and others will continue to buy Campy for that reason alone.

[christian]

Campy will be fine. I'd be more worried about SRAM meeting market expectations every quarter...

Centaur 10sp, btw, is the best damn deal in the world. The stuff looks great, works great, and appears to last indefinitely.

[Germany_chris]

I was not aware that Campy can sell 100% of what they make or that their sales are up of late. As a devotee, that's good news!
I like what someone said about how a bike mechanic should be able to work on all brands since it isn't rocket science. Unfortunately, in my experience, I come across many who seem to cop an attitude about working on Campy. It gets an undeserved reputation for being finicky and difficult. I'm no mechanic, but can do basic stuff. And I have found that in fact Campy components have a "set it and forget it" quality, and they last a long, long time.

The fact that fewer bikes- and almost no entry level bikes- come Campy equipped can be a problem going forward for the company. I'm not sure that you can just concede the "new rider" market to other companies, because when those new riders want to upgrade, chances are they will stick to a better version of what they already know.

Yes its true that there are plenty of Campy enthusiasts on this board- but lets face it- how many of us are under 45 or even 40?

That would be me...I'm sure there are more of us...

as for Campagnolo they'll do fine as long as they stay interesting and keep their comfortable hood shapes.

Campy has the same issues as older/custom builders you just have to be around a bit before you even know who they are..

[Lovetoclimb]

One of the most charismatic and cheered for bike racers in recent years gave Campagnolo quite a bit of camera time during this year's TdF.

I have noticed their sponsorship of "well known" pro tour teams has gone down in recent years (Liquigas, BMC . . . ) but their sponsorship of the smaller wild-card teams seems to remain quite strong (Europcar, Movistar, Colnago CFS, Androni Giocattoli). Also they seem to be as strong as ever in their partnerships with Quick-Step, Lotto, and Lampre.

Seems like they are quite well distributed in the pro peloton getting plenty of tv time.

[FixedNotBroken]

One of the most charismatic and cheered for bike racers in recent years gave Campagnolo quite a bit of camera time during this year's TdF.

I have noticed their sponsorship of "well known" pro tour teams has gone down in recent years (Liquigas, BMC . . . ) but their sponsorship of the smaller wild-card teams seems to remain quite strong (Europcar, Movistar, Colnago CFS, Androni Giocattoli). Also they seem to be as strong as ever in their partnerships with Quick-Step, Lotto, and Lampre.

Seems like they are quite well distributed in the pro peloton getting plenty of tv time.

I agree they do get TV time..but only when there seems to be a breakaway and when Tommy had the yellow jersey it did as well but what I was talking about were the TV ads..SOOOO MANY OF THEM. Reminded me of beer commercials during the super bowl.

[yashcha]

I have Sram and Shimano, but my first real road bike was a Bianchi Trofeo with Campy Mirage, and I am feeling nostalgic and thinking about getting a 2012 Centaur group for my new Canyon Ultimate AL.

Thinking about just getting a JTEK converter since all my wheels are shimano...

Campy will be fine. I'd be more worried about SRAM meeting market expectations every quarter...

Centaur 10sp, btw, is the best damn deal in the world. The stuff looks great, works great, and appears to last indefinitely.

[palincss]

maybe it's my general mechanical background, but the idea of a campy expert mechanic is laughable. there are some intricacies, but for the most part, bicycle mechanics are by no means difficult. any competent experienced bike mechanic should be able to figure anything about a campy drivetrain out with very little effort.


Is the Ergo brifter part of the drivetrain?

[Mike748]

Is the Ergo brifter part of the drivetrain?

I think that's an unfair question. In my experience LBS techs are parts hangers and bike assy techs. To expect them to rebuild a brifter of any sort (oh, wait you can't rebuild the other guys') is too much to ask. That's a specialty skill set that you might have to go further afield for... ok, to Boulder.

[fourflys]

I think that's an unfair question. In my experience LBS techs are parts hangers and bike assy techs. To expect them to rebuild a brifter of any sort (oh, wait you can't rebuild the other guys') is too much to ask. That's a specialty skill set that you might have to go further afield for... ok, to Boulder.

even a ergo shifter rebuild isn't that big of a deal... again, if you have the tools there's a ton of videos on youtube...

as far as the other guys... not real sure how often you'd need to rebuild them short of damage.. like I alluded to above, the SRAM group on my Steelman has seen a few thousand miles and lot of it racing and it shifts just fine... :beer:

[Rueda Tropical]

I'd be more concerned about SRAM. It's rapid expansion and the debt it's taken on to make that posible could put it in a lot more precarious position then Campy. Campagnolo, having come through a near death experience has a much more conservative and modest business model. They also don't have to worry about quarterly results and investor expectations and can focus on the long term well being of the business.

I imagine Campagnolo will be around for quite a while.

[Germany_chris]

I think that's an unfair question. In my experience LBS techs are parts hangers and bike assy techs. To expect them to rebuild a brifter of any sort (oh, wait you can't rebuild the other guys') is too much to ask. That's a specialty skill set that you might have to go further afield for... ok, to Boulder.

I don't know if thats true..I can think of a couple gentlemen and their trainees that can rebuild Campy in my little area of western MI. Only one shop here I would trust (other than me) to crack open a Campy shifter.

[fourflys]

They also don't have to worry about quarterly results and investor expectations and can focus on the long term well being of the business.


only if they want to remain a healthy business...

everyone worries about quarterly results and I bet Campy has some investors they have to appease...

[dana_e]

they have done a bunch of value engineering so the mid groups are quite inexpensive

they have the best hood shape!!!

the wheels are the bomb and under rated

Nice stuff

[Germany_chris]

only if they want to remain a healthy business...

everyone worries about quarterly results and I bet Campy has some investors they have to appease...

I bet very few longterm successful companies (particularly in Europe) concern themselves with quarterly results more trends and yearly and five year results.

[eltonbalch]

I try not to be a brand slave and I don't pinch pennies when it comes to my equipment. Unfortunately, I think Campagnolo is not taking full advantage of its heritage and reputation on the marketing side. They have been slow to roll out their response to Shimano's Di2 group and their pricing structure could be more competitive. That is going to hurt at some point but I don't think they are going out of business anytime soon. Heritage and reputation are important, but value tends to trump that in the long haul,

[fourflys]

I bet very few longterm successful companies (particularly in Europe) concern themselves with quarterly results more trends and yearly and five year results.


I took the gist of the other comment as Campy doesn't need to worry about metrics... which is what I disagreed with, everyone worries about metrics whether its quarterly, yearly or ???

[Lovetoclimb]

I agree they do get TV time..but only when there seems to be a breakaway and when Tommy had the yellow jersey it did as well but what I was talking about were the TV ads..SOOOO MANY OF THEM. Reminded me of beer commercials during the super bowl.

I only had Eurosport coverage for the Giro, did not catch any of the Le Tour on EuroSport or Versus unfortunately. Was there much in the way of adverts for Campy? I remember the SRAM adverts with the various pros saying they "choose" SRAM.

Reminds me of run ins with continental pros during training camps. They often say they don't care one way or another what they ride, because it is all just given to them while they are sponsored. Unfortunately I can not hold their wheel at conversation pace long enough to ask what happen(s) before/after sponsorship?!

[Germany_chris]

I took the gist of the other comment as Campy doesn't need to worry about metrics... which is what I disagreed with, everyone worries about metrics whether its quarterly, yearly or ???

Sorry...I spend my life advocating for longer term views on business...the worst part is school teaches trend spotting quarter to quarter..3 or 3 quarters does not a trend make..

[giverdada]

after our bikes got totaled in the rear-ending a week ago, we've been in the market for replacements. my wife, a sram supporter ever since building up her felt, is going for the switch: campy. i didn't even persuade her (a relative impossibility anyway). destroyed bike. clean slate. she wants campy. awesome. my brother is building up a strong. campy. i answered some questions, focusing on what i knew about shimano and sram, and he decided on campy (mostly for being able to dump the cassette).

this is probably a typical thing for my family. my dad brought home that first beige macintosh computer back in 198-whatever, and i've been on macs ever since. he's been riding steel since before then, and now i'm on steel too. he had campy and then shimano and is now back on campy. i hope campy survives. it means something to me.

and i'm 30. and i like a few things about campy that i miss in the other groups, namely rebuildability (something i've had to make use of before), durability (wear it in, not out), and style (cables under the bar tape since the get go, these beautiful new hoods).

now if they would just stop dumbing down/screwing up the lower groups (powershift? please.)...

[ultraman6970]

This is an interesting thread because apparently many shops have no idea or havent worked with campagnolo ever, well... my only critic is, do u have to get a diploma to be able to set a campagnolo group?? Im not a mechanic but i been able to put shimano groups and campangolo groups right out the box, have the tools but is not that hard (please LBS owners and mechanics dont take me wrong), i believe many shops just avoid problems just sending works to somebody else making them more useless than what they are right now and that is pretty wrong if you have a business u know.

In the case the OP is telling us, is just a shame that a guy that is suppose to be a mechanic can't figure it out??? If I was the shop owner I would fire the guy because is simply useless, how u cant know how to read or even know how to adjust any FD or RD? besides that set up campy is piece of cake to set up for god sake. As for the OP i would advice him not to go back to that shop ever, just shame of them.

Campagnolo have been rolling here from the beginning, and they will for sure for many more years. Another issue is that many shops have problems with campagnolo in warranties, even help from the USA rep because looks like the community knows more than they do. Have a friend with an LBS in Colorado and he dropped campy years ago more than nothing because of those two problems. shimano costumer service apparently is flawless, sram aswell and because costumer service coming from campy sucks. In a matter of fact when he has a problem he cant figure it out or want to perform a mixing group parts to fix a problem he almost all the time just call me. The weird thing is that he was a campy user years ago, shimano fever maybe? :D

[Rueda Tropical]

only if they want to remain a healthy business...

everyone worries about quarterly results and I bet Campy has some investors they have to appease...

I'm sure they sweat the numbers monthly but that's different from trading long term health and investment to meet short term growth and profit expectations from investors. I am not saying SRAM does that but they are playing in a different game and subject to different outside pressures then Campagnolo and I expect they are carrying a lot more debt

[branflakes]

+1 on the sub-40 crowd and i anticipate raising another 3 that appreciate substance over, well, volume i guess.

so, i'm doing my part to keep campy alive as best i can.

[uber]

I am a long time Campy fan, and agree that the product requires little maintenance once set up. With the consensus that all three groups work well, I am trying SRAM on my new bike based on cost, weight and the fact it is American made. At my LBS, the cost difference was significant. If cost were not an issue, I would probably get a bunch more bikes and put SR on everything.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I am a long time Campy fan, and agree that the product requires little maintenance once set up. With the consensus that all three groups work well, I am trying SRAM on my new bike based on cost, weight and the fact it is American made. At my LBS, the cost difference was significant. If cost were not an issue, I would probably get a bunch more bikes and put SR on everything.

Though the company (SRAM) may be American, the parts certainly are not.

[Vientomas]

I am a long time Campy fan, and agree that the product requires little maintenance once set up. With the consensus that all three groups work well, I am trying SRAM on my new bike based on cost, weight and the fact it is American made. At my LBS, the cost difference was significant. If cost were not an issue, I would probably get a bunch more bikes and put SR on everything.

I built up a Turner mountain bike (American made) with SRAM because I assumed SRAM was American made. When I looked at the packaging for each component I was surprised to learn that none were made in the USA. SRAM maybe and American company but I don't believe they manufacture any components in the USA.

[forrestw]

I am a long time Campy fan, and agree that the product requires little maintenance once set up. With the consensus that all three groups work well, I am trying SRAM on my new bike based on cost, weight and the fact it is American made. At my LBS, the cost difference was significant. If cost were not an issue, I would probably get a bunch more bikes and put SR on everything.
By the mid 90s half of SRAM's workforce were located in asia, I doubt that trend has changed.

[jamesutiopia]

My perception is that things have been pretty static in the drivetrain market for a few years. SRAM took a chunk out of Shimano and Campy with the 10/11s transition (especially in OEM) and is compelled/motivated to bite off even more.

For better or worse I agree with the demographic observation about Campy. It's not an immediate threat to C, but should underline the need to not become further marginalized in the next round of product refreshes (looks to be electronic shifting, but could also be disc brakes for road bikes or something else).

Would not be at all surprised to see carbon frames with internal electronic shift wiring/batteries be incompatible between Shimano, Campy, and SRAM. A wireless system (more reliable than Mektronic) might also be practical and could still be designed to force lockstep parts upgrades (as in IT: v3.0 parts may not be fully backwards compatible with v1.0, so replacing a RD on a five year old v1.0 bike could be expensive) and prevent mix-and-match across brands. Sounds pessimistic, but look at the photography world...

All these systems manage to move the chain around just fine (S, C, and SRAM), so whichever company resists the temptation to be evil will earn my upgrade dollars. It wasn't Campy last time around (e.g. cost of the 11s chain tool at launch), but I am still hopeful...

[oldpotatoe]

The other day I brought my Campagnolo equipped bike into the LBS to have some work done. The young mechanic said it was a good day to come in because "our Campy expert is here today. Guess which one he is."
I looked behind the counter and spotted the oldest mechanic and said "well that must be him there."
"You're right." he said with a smile.
All this has me thinking even more about something that has crossed my mind frequently. Can Campy survive? From what I see where I live in the North East, the company has essentially lost two generations of cycling enthusiasts. There's a lot of reasons for this, most recently the emergence of Sram as a major player. Anyone have thoughts on the topic...?

Campagnolo's sales have remained fairly constant over the years and in 2011 has seen a fairly large increase.

I don't think comparing a company hugely invested in OEM should be compared to one that is not. Compare sram and shimano, who are targeting each other in the OEM 'wars'.

'Lost 2 generations of cycling enthusiasts'??

2 generations is how many years? Campagnolo came back from the brink in 1992/3/4. That's less than 20 years ago.

Campagnolo is like Rolex, Ducati, Audi. Not like Seiko, Yamaha, Toyota. Altho cycling 'stuff', their focus is different than the other 2 guys.

As they say, the stories of Campagnolo's demise are hugely exaggerated.

[oldpotatoe]

only if they want to remain a healthy business...

everyone worries about quarterly results and I bet Campy has some investors they have to appease...

Campagnolo is a private company. They may have investors but they are not public like sram.

[oldpotatoe]

I am a long time Campy fan, and agree that the product requires little maintenance once set up. With the consensus that all three groups work well, I am trying SRAM on my new bike based on cost, weight and the fact it is American made. At my LBS, the cost difference was significant. If cost were not an issue, I would probably get a bunch more bikes and put SR on everything.

NOT 'American made', American company. Nothing sram makes is made in America.

[weiwentg]

There was a thread on the 'other' forum, with the same title and about the same conclusions. I think that cycling is a growing sport. As long as Campy can keep its market share at least steady, it has a future.

I put SRAM on my wife's commuter bike. I won't comment about the shifting until it has at least a few thousand miles on it, but the ergonomics of the shifters were quite impressive. However, it just doesn't have the same style as Campy, which I have on my main bike (steel).

[nova]

I’m one of the younger guys who hangs around the forum, look a lot, post infrequently. I’ve rode campy record this season (the red stuff from ‘08). I race collegiate and the guys on my team think the stuff is awesome, the biggest problem is racing with it, if you need a wheel change from a teammate, good luck. I think the interest among young guys is there, the problem is money. Anyway, I’m stuck on the stuff and I’m ordering anthena CX this week, they’ve got the shifting dialed and

Oh, and sram spends a boat load on advertising and at this point has ended up oem on SOME ‘dales, treks and cx bikes in NA. From what I hear sram is more just smoke and mirrors at this point, they’ve only taken like 10% of shimano’s market share, but with the pro tour teams, and constant advertising you’d think it was an even split.

[dana_e]

light shifters

excellent hood shape

I burned through some Shimano shifters to the point they did not work

the only Campy shifters I have been able to get to the point that they are in need of a rebuild, I got well used from another guy

My last Shimano outing was Ultegra 9 speed, after that I got some super cheap used 8 speed campagnolo stuff

I liked the shift feel, the multiple dump (2 at a time is nice) of Campy

[Germany_chris]

light shifters

excellent hood shape

I burned through some Shimano shifters to the point they did not work

the only Campy shifters I have been able to get to the point that they are in need of a rebuild, I got well used from another guy

My last Shimano outing was Ultegra 9 speed, after that I got some super cheap used 8 speed campagnolo stuff

I liked the shift feel, the multiple dump (2 at a time is nice) of Campy

I like the analogy I read in here a while back that compared them to car shifters.

Shimano is like Honda

Campy is like BMW

Honestly both shift well I like the hood shape and the feel. Campy just feels more solid.

[dana_e]

running 10 speed campy on a bunch of bikes

2nd gen shape, and current 3rd gen hood shape

no quickshift or powershift

even a bike on downtube friction 10 speed

Cammpa rocks

The wheels are over looked and very nice

sometimes they value engineer a bit

Chorus is the cat's meow

[Chance]

For now why not? Expected Italian economic austerity may make Campy products more affordable in US. Perhaps not so in Europe if economic decline pushes cyclists towards less expensive products.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Campy is and will do just fine. They are very much in the game, and doing it without a mountain group. The big set back with SRAM, IMO, is that even Red seems cheap looking and feeling, even Mirage doesn't feel or look "cheap". I like how the reason SRAM is gaining market share is because they can deliver, not because of innovation, or offering something different. And, how long did it take Shimano to do carbon levers, something Campy has been doing since at least 2000. I''m sure Shimano and SRAM are great to some folks, just not me. I prefer Campy, as many of us here do.

[Bob Loblaw]

There are a couple of things you need to service Campy 11 speed. Replacing a chain pin requires a special chain tool (a *ahem* different special tool than the ten speed pin requires, incidentally)...though you just can use the KMC link. They are also now using the T25 torx bit in several (but not all) parts, so it pays to have a pretty complete set of bits for your torque wrench if you have a Campy bike in the stand.

BB cups go in with the same tool as SRAM/Shimano, and the same cassette lockring tool fits all three manufacturers too. Several of the torque specs are dramatically different between the big three, so you do have to pay attention to what you're doing.

But as has been pointed out, ain't none of it brain surgery. The thing that sets a good mechanic apart, IMO, is not knowhow as much as thoroughness, experience and care.

Of the big three Shimano seems to require the fewest specialized tools. The "Campy Expert" is probably just the guy who knows where the tools are ;)

BL

[QUOTE=ultraman6970]This is an interesting thread because apparently many shops have no idea or havent worked with campagnolo ever, well... my only critic is, do u have to get a diploma to be able to set a campagnolo group?? Im not a mechanic but i been able to put shimano groups and campangolo groups right out the box, have the tools but is not that hard (please LBS owners and mechanics dont take me wrong), i believe many shops just avoid problems just sending works to somebody else making them more useless than what they are right now and that is pretty wrong if you have a business u know.

[Bob Loblaw]

I was surprised at the number of shops that don't do ergo rebuilds. One guy told me they'd send the shifter out for rebuilding, overnight it both ways, and it would work like new for $150. The parts are $30 (including shipping and the instruction manual...$5 and well worth it). Took me and youtube an hour and a half the first time, 40 minutes the second time.

BL

In my experience LBS techs are parts hangers and bike assy techs. To expect them to rebuild a brifter of any sort (oh, wait you can't rebuild the other guys') is too much to ask. That's a specialty skill set that you might have to go further afield for... ok, to Boulder.

[yashcha]

I find the opposite trend here(northern ireland). Shimano and Sram are VERY expensive and considered really exotic, while no one really cares that you have campy. If you have Di2, you are like a god.

[fourflys]

The big set back with SRAM, IMO, is that even Red seems cheap looking and feeling

I see this posted here and there and, IMHO, don't get it... as I said earlier, I just got rid of Chorus 11 and it was a fine group for sure... I currently have an Apex bike and an alloy Force/Rival bike and neither one feels any cheaper than my Chorus 11 stuff... of course I don't think I would "feel" the difference between my Timex and a Rolex either since both tell time just fine...

again, I don't think Campy is going under anytime this decade, but I do feel they should broaden their horizons in regard to OEM stuff... at least from the perspective of living in the US... it does seem from a comment above that Campy is more ubiquitous in Europe then here...

oh and the comment that SRAM is all smoke and mirrors and only has about 10% of the OEM market.... Um, not sure where you're looking at, but the LBS's here in SoCal have a TON of SRAM bikes... seems about 50/50 when it comes to OEM... I will say Shimano seems to have a better hold on the lower end (<$1000) road bikes, but I bet Apex might change that...

[oldpotatoe]

I see this posted here and there and, IMHO, don't get it... as I said earlier, I just got rid of Chorus 11 and it was a fine group for sure... I currently have an Apex bike and an alloy Force/Rival bike and neither one feels any cheaper than my Chorus 11 stuff... of course I don't think I would "feel" the difference between my Timex and a Rolex either since both tell time just fine...

again, I don't think Campy is going under anytime this decade, but I do feel they should broaden their horizons in regard to OEM stuff... at least from the perspective of living in the US... it does seem from a comment above that Campy is more ubiquitous in Europe then here...

oh and the comment that SRAM is all smoke and mirrors and only has about 10% of the OEM market.... Um, not sure where you're looking at, but the LBS's here in SoCal have a TON of SRAM bikes... seems about 50/50 when it comes to OEM... I will say Shimano seems to have a better hold on the lower end (<$1000) road bikes, but I bet Apex might change that...

The sram outside guy just told me sram has 15% of the road bike market right now.

Until sram makes a road triple(and they won't) they won't have the low end road bike market. yes, yes, I know the 11-36 has the range but it sure looses a bunch of interior cogs. AND now that shimano has their own 11-36...put on a MTB 9s RD, a triple and get VERY low gearing.

[mgd]

I find the opposite trend here(northern ireland). Shimano and Sram are VERY expensive and considered really exotic, while no one really cares that you have campy. If you have Di2, you are like a god.

in europe you all see much more lower-end campag on bikes, correct? from the press i've seen it's not all record/chorus over there.

remember the chris king campy hub thread with the mirage on the display bike? at least one commenter noted that it was mirage and not some more blingy stuff.

[firerescuefin]

I was surprised at the number of shops that don't do ergo rebuilds. One guy told me they'd send the shifter out for rebuilding, overnight it both ways, and it would work like new for $150. The parts are $30 (including shipping and the instruction manual...$5 and well worth it). Took me and youtube an hour and a half the first time, 40 minutes the second time.

BL

I've sent my Record 10 shifters to Peter (Vecchios) twice and the turnaround was quick...certainly didn't miss it the week they were gone in the middle of the winter. Price was reasonable and the turnaround was quick...certainly another option if your not so inclined to do it yourself and your LBS is not competent or is going to outsource it anyway.

[steampunk]

for service just take yours to a local Campy pro shop if there is one.

http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/proshop/index.jsp

i do and have zero issues with parts & service ever.

[FixedNotBroken]

Campy seems to come on the Colnago's, Pinarello's, Willier's, Focus, etc. Unless you buy the highest end frame, what seems to come on the bike is Chorus, Athena. Both good working stuff but when it comes to OEM stuff, Shimano seems to have the majority with their Tiagra, 105, Ultegra..

[fourflys]

The sram outside guy just told me sram has 15% of the road bike market right now.


I wonder if that's because Shimano seems to get all of the Sora level bikes since SRAM didn't really have a Sora level... I think Apex is still a notch above Sora, at least on Tiagra level (especially not that Tiagra is 10sp)...

[yashcha]

I am not sure in other parts of europe, but here the guys with the blingy bikes have ultegra 6700 or if they are really wealthy, dura ace mechanical. I have seen one DI2 bike. I haven't seen too many Sram equipped bikes, and have seen even fewer campy bikes.

One guy showed up with a new scott isp bike with campy record and I was surprised to hear his mate comment "why did you get campy for racing?". I would have killed for that bike.

Campy just doesn't have that mythical aura that it has in the US. I think some people in the US have this belief that things made in Italy are of a far better quality than something made in the far east, just because it is made in italy. I get the sense that people here just don't feel that way.

I looked through a bunch of magazines tonight and I did notice that bikes that came with mid range campy stuff were predominantly from italian bike companies like De Rosa and Colnago.


in europe you all see much more lower-end campag on bikes, correct? from the press i've seen it's not all record/chorus over there.

remember the chris king campy hub thread with the mirage on the display bike? at least one commenter noted that it was mirage and not some more blingy stuff.

[dbh]

While I doubt Campy's near term financial health is an issue, I do have to wonder about future generations of riders. As a relatively young cyclist, I'm hard pressed to think of any of my peers who ride Campy. I have two bikes with Centaur ultrashift groups on them, and couldn't be happier -- but I had to piece those groups together on my own. I can't think of a shop around where I can find a midlevel ride with Campy on it. What concerns me is that with riders of my age in the US simply not having experience with Campy coupled with boomers who did grow up with Campy aging and eventually hanging up their bikes, what market share will they have in the future? Hard to keep innovating on nostalgia alone.

[fourflys]

What concerns me is that with riders of my age in the US simply not having experience with Campy coupled with boomers who did grow up with Campy aging and eventually hanging up their bikes, what market share will they have in the future? Hard to keep innovating on nostalgia alone.


that's the point I was trying to make earlier with my model train analogy... I think you hit the nail on the head...

[Seott-e]

Yes it will. SRAM is very hip and the rage but it's built like crap (IMO) ....Shimano will always around as well.

:beer: to Campagnolo.

[pavel]

I was surprised at the number of shops that don't do ergo rebuilds. One guy told me they'd send the shifter out for rebuilding, overnight it both ways, and it would work like new for $150. The parts are $30 (including shipping and the instruction manual...$5 and well worth it). Took me and youtube an hour and a half the first time, 40 minutes the second time.

BL

Can you link to where to find rebuild kits for 10sp?


running 10 speed campy on a bunch of bikes

2nd gen shape, and current 3rd gen hood shape

no quickshift or powershift

even a bike on downtube friction 10 speed

Cammpa rocks



I am dying to know how you did this!

[oldpotatoe]

I wonder if that's because Shimano seems to get all of the Sora level bikes since SRAM didn't really have a Sora level... I think Apex is still a notch above Sora, at least on Tiagra level (especially not that Tiagra is 10sp)...

I guess YMMV. The 2 Apex bikes I have seen already had lots of play in the RD top bolt/pivot and the FD shifting was awful. No amount of new cabling or housing could make it be a less effort. I don't see small handed people(women?) liking the FD shifting. It's just seems really cheap. Tiagra, same price points, looks/works better, IMHO.

[fourflys]

true, YMMV... guess I'm not that sensitive to shifting as some... all I know is I push the paddle and the chain goes to a different cog or chainring... :beer:

of course, I can't speak for the new 10sp Tiagra from experience...

[retrogrouchy]

I see this posted here and there and, IMHO, don't get it... as I said earlier, I just got rid of Chorus 11 and it was a fine group for sure... I currently have an Apex bike and an alloy Force/Rival bike and neither one feels any cheaper than my Chorus 11 stuff... of course I don't think I would "feel" the difference between my Timex and a Rolex either since both tell time just fine...

again, I don't think Campy is going under anytime this decade, but I do feel they should broaden their horizons in regard to OEM stuff... at least from the perspective of living in the US... it does seem from a comment above that Campy is more ubiquitous in Europe then here...

oh and the comment that SRAM is all smoke and mirrors and only has about 10% of the OEM market.... Um, not sure where you're looking at, but the LBS's here in SoCal have a TON of SRAM bikes... seems about 50/50 when it comes to OEM... I will say Shimano seems to have a better hold on the lower end (<$1000) road bikes, but I bet Apex might change that...

I think you (and several others, just picked you as an example) may be confusing gross sales with net profits. What Campagnolo wants is net profits, and there are various ways to do that. You can almost always get more gross sales via lower gross profit margins and tons of marketing expenses (that lower net profit even further), like SRAM is apparently doing. Also, Campagnolo is not a publicly-traded company, so they don't have to worry about appeasing the analysts in the next quarter or two (thank goodness). Campagnolo ain't going anywhere, anytime soon. As others have mentioned, they survived the death of their iconic founder in 1983, as well as the move to indexed shifting in the 1980s. 1993 was the beginning of their comeback from all of that. Valentino had to figure out how to get out from under his father's shadow and run the company 'his own way' (and be successful at it). Their business model since 1993 seems to be quite sound.

[retrogrouchy]

in europe you all see much more lower-end campag on bikes, correct? from the press i've seen it's not all record/chorus over there.

remember the chris king campy hub thread with the mirage on the display bike? at least one commenter noted that it was mirage and not some more blingy stuff.

This brings up an interesting point. Think about Mercedes Benz. In most of the rest of the world, they are primarily taxicabs and trucks. In the USA, they are a premium luxury brand. Big difference, and one that has been carefully cultivated. I would posit that Campagnolo has done a similar thing in the USA....

[retrogrouchy]

true, YMMV... guess I'm not that sensitive to shifting as some... all I know is I push the paddle and the chain goes to a different cog or chainring... :beer:

of course, I can't speak for the new 10sp Tiagra from experience...

Do you own SRAM stock (just wondering...). :rolleyes:

[Bob Loblaw]

Branford Bike (http://branfordbike.com/articles/campagnolo-ergo-lever-parts-1998-2008-pg71.htm) (with whom I have no affiliation or relationship) has just about everything you'd need. I've heard people say you can get the parts cheaper, but their service is good and they are cheap enough.

Most levers (YMMV) need only parts #9, 4, and 25.

BL

Can you link to where to find rebuild kits for 10sp?

[pavel]

most excellent, thank you.

[oldpotatoe]

Branford Bike (http://branfordbike.com/articles/campagnolo-ergo-lever-parts-1998-2008-pg71.htm) (with whom I have no affiliation or relationship) has just about everything you'd need. I've heard people say you can get the parts cheaper, but their service is good and they are cheap enough.

Most levers (YMMV) need only parts #9, 4, and 25.

BL

Many of us 'bike shops' have ERGO innards and I sure haven't ever seen #25 'wear out'..it's just a thin metal washer.

http://www.vecchios.com

since we're including websites.

[fourflys]

Do you own SRAM stock (just wondering...). :rolleyes:

nope, not at all... I just ride a bike... they are all fine groups...

and as I said earlier.. everyone worries about profits, regardless of if they are publicly traded or not... I'm pretty sure Campy has investors... as far as SRAM's health, according to some quick internet research they are second to Shimano with around 15% of the market and last year had net earnings of $50 million... not bad for a company that just filed for an IPO... hard to compare SRAM or Campy with Shimano though since neither one has to file a 10k report with the SEC, difficult to get hard numbers...

[oldpotatoe]

nope, not at all... I just ride a bike... they are all fine groups...

and as I said earlier.. everyone worries about profits, regardless of if they are publicly traded or not... I'm pretty sure Campy has investors... as far as SRAM's health, according to some quick internet research they are second to Shimano with around 15% of the market and last year had net earnings of $50 million... not bad for a company that just filed for an IPO... hard to compare SRAM or Campy with Shimano though since neither one has to file a 10k report with the SEC, difficult to get hard numbers...

Sram and all they include is a $500,000,000 gross company, just filed the IPO this year. shimano and Campagnolo are private companys.



shimano is about $1.2-$1.4 Billion, Campagnolo is about 1/10 shimano..$150,000,000 gross or so.

[Peter B]

Sram and all they include is a $500,000,000 gross company, just filed the IPO this year. shimano and Campagnolo are private companys.



shimano is about $1.2-$1.4 Billion, Campagnolo is about 1/10 shimano..$150,000 gross or so.


Is that $1.5M?

[yashcha]

Sram and all they include is a $500,000,000 gross company, just filed the IPO this year. shimano and Campagnolo are private companys.



shimano is about $1.2-$1.4 Billion, Campagnolo is about 1/10 shimano..$150,000 gross or so.

Is this profit based on just cycling goods? Shimano is hugely popular in fishing too.

[fourflys]

Sram and all they include is a $500,000,000 gross company, just filed the IPO this year. shimano and Campagnolo are private companys.



shimano is about $1.2-$1.4 Billion, Campagnolo is about 1/10 shimano..$150,000 gross or so.

Shimano is not a private company...

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/shmdf

never said Campy wasn't a private company, just that I'm sure they have people that have invested in the company (not all investments are in public traded stock)... and SRAM is not currently a public traded company yet, although they did file for an IPO as I mentioned above...

just sayin'...

[fourflys]

Is this profit based on just cycling goods? Shimano is hugely popular in fishing too.

I would think that total would be the corporation as a whole...

here are Shimano's financials, in case you're wondering...
http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_corp/en/us/index/financial_information/financial_results.html

[retrogrouchy]

Is that $1.5M?

No, that would be about $150 Million for Campagnolo.... He just left off one set of three zeroes (and corporate stuff is often reported in thousands, like that, btw, so no real biggie there...).

[oldpotatoe]

No, that would be about $150 Million for Campagnolo.... He just left off one set of three zeroes (and corporate stuff is often reported in thousands, like that, btw, so no real biggie there...).


oopps..

[R2D2]

Many of us 'bike shops' have ERGO innards and I sure haven't ever seen #25 'wear out'..it's just a thin metal washer.

http://www.vecchios.com

since we're including websites.

Well oldpotatoe would get my money as the knowledge he shares means a lot to me.

[dana_e]

and lasts a good long time

[ridemoreoften]

From what I hear, Campy is just breaking in when Shimano is breaking down. Also, Campy is rebuildable vs SRAM.

[fourflys]

Also, Campy is rebuildable vs SRAM.

you know I hear this over and over... my question is how many people have thrown away Shimano or SRAM shifters because they needed rebuilt and couldn't? I know people riding first gen 105 shifters still...

[oldpotatoe]

you know I hear this over and over... my question is how many people have thrown away Shimano or SRAM shifters because they needed rebuilt and couldn't? I know people riding first gen 105 shifters still...

Wall, got a box of busted shimano STI, sram will warranty anything then they throw them away. 8s shimano was very durable, 9s less so, 10s seems pretty reliable. If I see a Campag lever that's busted, well, I fix it.

[fourflys]

Wall, got a box of busted shimano STI, sram will warranty anything then they throw them away. 8s shimano was very durable, 9s less so, 10s seems pretty reliable. If I see a Campag lever that's busted, well, I fix it.

well, you would know for sure and I trust your assessment... I just know for me I never seem to keep a bike around long enough to wear anything out on it... :D also, I'm not riding 10k miles a year either... so far, I like the feel/fit of the SRAM hoods best with Campy 11 being a close second (didn't care for Campy 10 hoods)... there was nothing wrong with my Campy stuff (other than the FD clamp issue, fixed under warranty), I just wanted to try something different... I wouldn't have any issue going back to Campy but I think Shimano is out unless they make a hood for smaller hands... guess I don't have "man hands"... :cool:

[oldpotatoe]

well, you would know for sure and I trust your assessment... I just know for me I never seem to keep a bike around long enough to wear anything out on it... :D also, I'm not riding 10k miles a year either... so far, I like the feel/fit of the SRAM hoods best with Campy 11 being a close second (didn't care for Campy 10 hoods)... there was nothing wrong with my Campy stuff (other than the FD clamp issue, fixed under warranty), I just wanted to try something different... I wouldn't have any issue going back to Campy but I think Shimano is out unless they make a hood for smaller hands... guess I don't have "man hands"... :cool:

'member that Centaur and Veloce are 10s and new shape, same shape as '11s' levers.

[fourflys]

'member that Centaur and Veloce are 10s and new shape, same shape as '11s' levers.

well, when I come back from Alaska (prob where I'm headed this summer for 3 yrs) I plan to have me a nice custom built by someone like Hampsten and may very well go back to Campy... who knows...

Thanks Peter!

[dana_e]

is a big deal

the new Campy hood shape is the best IMHO

[modernfuturist]

I'm a big fan of Campy but I'm not too thrilled that they have done away with ultra shift for Athena and below.

Good thing I grabbed me some ultra shift Centaur shifters that should last me a good while.

[Joachim]

Has anyone ever made use of the Campy 4 year warranty? Just curious, since we often hear of SRAM being warrantied....

[fourflys]

Has anyone ever made use of the Campy 4 year warranty? Just curious, since we often hear of SRAM being warrantied....


just when my FD clamp snapped... I had no issues getting it fixed through my local Pro Shop... and I did have to show a receipt I had bought the parts from an approved shop...

[dana_e]

Ultra Shift Veloce ones with the new shape, nice

I went through multiple nine speed STI levers and then went to campy

I got 8 speed ergos for free and a bunch of cogs and rear mech.

I was hooked

I passed by nine speed campy and then went 10.

[rain dogs]

I personally believe Campagnolo will be just fine for 3 reasons.

1. They market intentionally or otherwise to emotion. So there is a 'aura' amongst their market, and that is very difficult to have evaporate, especially vs 'low-cost' competition.

2. They make very high quality, and repairable/serviceable products, so they market-in longevity to the brand, and sell to a strong niche market.

3. The business model of lowest cost/low value competition has saturated today's market and is hobbling along with the impression that it works, but it's not a sustainable business model. Campagnolo designs, manufactures and distributes in the heart of the biggest performance cycling market in the world (Southern Europe) and that provides long-term economic sustainability.

[fiamme red]

Nov 7 launch date set for Campagnolo Super Record Electronic (http://road.cc/content/news/46352-nov-7-launch-date-set-campagnolo-super-record-electronic)

[ultraman6970]

heard something about 4000 bucks or more. If shimano makes it good it will position in the market again lowering prices.

Just wonder when campy will come up with centaur or athena electronic.

[oldpotatoe]

heard something about 4000 bucks or more. If shimano makes it good it will position in the market again lowering prices.

Just wonder when campy will come up with centaur or athena electronic.

Like shimano now you could do the electronic mini group-shifters, ders, and the rest any group, like ALU Athena. Chorus cogset, chain, any brakes, crank/BB. Doesn't have to be SuperRecord.

Gonna be expensive, but remember Di2 was north of $4000 when first introduced.

[edward12]

I use Campy on 3 of my 4 bikes. I simply prefer the feel, percieved difference in performance, etc.

Shimano also makes a fine product and I definately wouldn't shy away from Dura Ace (or Ultegra) if given a choice.

But what I don't understand is the move towards electronic shifting. I just don't see the cost benefit in terms of performance and reliability.

I'm not trying to be facetious, but I would be grateful if someone could explain the advantges of such a system, as the point is clearly lost on me.

[rain dogs]

I use Campy on 3 of my 4 bikes. I simply prefer the feel, percieved difference in performance, etc.

Shimano also makes a fine product and I definately wouldn't shy away from Dura Ace (or Ultegra) if given a choice.

But what I don't understand is the move towards electronic shifting. I just don't see the cost benefit in terms of performance and reliability.

I'm not trying to be facetious, but I would be grateful if someone could explain the advantges of such a system, as the point is clearly lost on me.

I once brought this up in another forum and nearly got death threats. Electronic (either from Campy OR Shimano) has no appeal to me, and in fact I think it better suits Shimano vs Campy from a "designed for disposal/non-serviceable sti's" standpoint.

However, the two advantages I can think of are 1. Cable routing 2. Multi shift position options for TT.

Pretty specialized, and I doubt 80%+ of the consumers are using it for that. (only the pros)