OT: '08 BMW M5 advice

[legacysti888]

I have an opportunity to buy a very, very low miles, mint condition, bone stock but extremely optioned out M5 manual. It stickered at over $100k new.
The price is very attrctive and all services are done by the the local BMW.

I've never owned a BMW and would like to hear from anyone here who owns one if you would advise on such a purchase or pass on it.
I've done some online research over the weekend and heard about the problems with the SMG but not too much on the manual.

I've driven both 2011 M3 manual and SMG and like it a lot and I am assuming the M5 is more luxurious in ride quality and less sharp on the handling and suspension of the current M3.

This car will be out of warranty in less than a year and would like to know what the cost of ownership after warranty will be. I have read a new clutch installed by dealership is under $3k and a new trans under $5k. I don't plan on abusing it but will be driving it like it's meant to be driven whenever possible. It will also be my daily driver.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any input and help.

[AngryScientist]

i've got nothing but good things to say about BMW, my owning experience thus far has been excellent. i agree that the manual trans is the way to go, less gadgetry to go wrong in the long run.

i do all my own maintenance, and have not found it to be any more expensive than other cars requiring synthetic oil, which i've been using for years.

go for it!

[FlashUNC]

Tried Truedelta for their survey results? That'll give you a pretty good idea of ownership experiences with the car, from actual people.

I send in my monthly and quarterly foilbles with my GTI.

[Ken Robb]

BMW manual transmissions are tough and routinely go 200,000+ miles with no problems provided the owner ignores the ridiculous "lifetime fill" story BMW now puts out. Change the fluid in it and the differential.at 30,000 mile intervals. Clutches that are not abused will go 100,000-150,000 miles.

The M5 has amazing handling and doesn't really give up much if anything to an M3 except on the tightest courses. There is no way to come close to using this car's potential on the street.

All of those horses have to be fed so the fuel consumption is HIGH.

Call my pal Carl Nelson who owns a BMW repair shop and ask him what to expect in repairs and perhaps he can recommend a private warranty company he knows to be good. 858-488-1555. You will want to find a GOOD independent shop to look after this baby when the warranty/free service runs out.

[FixedNotBroken]

You will have fun with the manual..enough said so be ready to drop $$$$ eventually. I am an M3 owner (2007) and it's a lot of fun and much lighter than the M5. You will go through tires more often as well but the ride quality is butter :) enjoy it!

[Gummee]

If that car's anything like my Dad's S-class, be prepared to maintain it like it was a $100k car.

I miss my 3-series... The M5 should be a hoot to drive!

M

[Mike748]

I'd buy it and abuse the heck out of the remaining warranty. Research the common faults and make up symptoms if needed to get those fixed under warranty. BMW will fix just about anything if you ask them too (ie complain), but in my experience won't actively seek out things to fix...

BMW extended warranties are expensive but may be worth it on that complex a car.

[AngryScientist]

remind me, what motor are we talking about here?

[FixedNotBroken]

remind me, what motor are we talking about here?

The 2008 I believe is the 5.0L V-10 7 speed.

[crownjewelwl]

if so, original owner usually has the option to extend the warranty. i don't think it is as robust as the original, but better than nothing. we keep getting reminders in the mail for my wife's 2008 bmw.

you might want to consider asking the original owner to buy it as part of the deal. peace of mind is worth a couple of Gs in my book.

also some dealers will "buy" the car, put it through the CPO process, and "sell" it back to you for the price of the extended warranty + some margin. just something to consider.

but back to your original question...BUY IT

[nahtnoj]

I would buy the best E39 I could find and put the rest in a money market account to pay for maintenance.

[legacysti888]

I am buying from the orignal owner and so far I have checked on line that there have been zero recalls or TSB on this particular model and year.

Do BMW manual transmissions have the hill 'hold' option/capability for their manuals?

Are there anything specific I need to know about this car other than it is a switch or something to unleash all 500bhp. I also hear the iDrive is a real pain and there are just so many suspension/handling electronic options that it can be confusing.

I'm sorry. I'm coming from a traditionally equipped but a very modded 2005 Subaru Legacy and not at all familiar with all the electronic wizardry of current BMWs.

I am not going to mod the M5 if I do decide to purchase it, though.

[FixedNotBroken]

I am buying from the orignal owner and so far I have checked on line that there have been zero recalls or TSB on this particular model and year.

Do BMW manual transmissions have the hill 'hold' option/capability for their manuals?

Are there anything specific I need to know about this car other than it is a switch or something to unleash all 500bhp. I also hear the iDrive is a real pain and there are just so many suspension/handling electronic options that it can be confusing.

I'm sorry. I'm coming from a traditionally equipped but a very modded 2005 Subaru Legacy and not at all familiar with all the electronic wizardry of current BMWs.

I am not going to mod the M5 if I do decide to purchase it, though.

You don't need to mod it at all. You will get used to it..and once you do you'll be a wizard. If it's the original owner, all the history is there, clean inside/out, mechanic has run through it and clears it along with low miles..go for it if you can afford it.

[avalonracing]

My neighbor had one and let it go at the end of the lease instead of buying it at a great price. He regrets it every day.

[Elefantino]

Buy it as is, drive it as is. You'll have a wider grin than Smilin' Bob and you won't have had to take male enhancement pills.

[Nautilus]

It's going to be very expensive to maintain, it's usually not unrealistic to figure that you'll spend about a 50-100% more to insure, maintain, and drive an M compared to the non M version.

Having said that, your grin will be about double what it would be when you get the hear that V10 rip to life every time it starts.

Check out www.bimmerforums.com it's a great resource.

[verticaldoug]

You have been infected with car lust. The only cure is to buy a totally over powered car and drive it. Otherwise you never get it out of your system.

You are buying a M5 which is totally impractical. If you are worried about insurance, warranties and other costs, don't get the car.

As soon as the novelty is gone, flip it, and cross it off your bucket list.

p.s. high-end cars are never a good deal, so stop kidding yourself. It's a toy and you want to have fun.

[Fixed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk
cheers

m3 wins

[Pete Serotta]

on the miles of smiles and life that you want. Yes I have had M3s for a long time. The seat folds down for bike and it is fun :D :D :D :D.

Putting a financial hat on will never justify a M or even many German cars.

Maintenance and gas miles.....get the Honda Accord :beer:

Otherwise I use my Honda PILOT and just put gas in it....great transportation

- and for sane folks that is what folks want a vehicle for....BUT I was never accused of being sane. :no: :no:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk
cheers

[legacysti888]

You have been infected with car lust. The only cure is to buy a totally over powered car and drive it. Otherwise you never get it out of your system.

You are buying a M5 which is totally impractical. If you are worried about insurance, warranties and other costs, don't get the car.

As soon as the novelty is gone, flip it, and cross it off your bucket list.

p.s. high-end cars are never a good deal, so stop kidding yourself. It's a toy and you want to have fun.

Car lust, bike lust.. it's all the same... :beer:

I do drive a very, very fast sedan right now - 435whp actually, which is about the same as what this M5 puts out but it's about 700lbs lighter.
Not worried about insurance and warranty... just reliability if driven properly.
AND it rides sooo much better than my car. :D

[Mike748]

Do BMW manual transmissions have the hill 'hold' option/capability for their manuals?



No, you have to have skill to drive it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[hookookadoo]

I would buy the best E39 I could find and put the rest in a money market account to pay for maintenance.

+1.

Unless you can't live without the pure speed and handling of the M5 I'd get the regular 5 series(aka E39). The ride is incredible, handling is sweet and speed is as you please from a 528 to a 550...the last two digits being the engine size in litres. So the question for you is the incremental price and higher maintenance costs worth the incremental speed and handling? For me personally it is not. The traditional 5 series is perfection as is. But if you pull the trigger...amen brother. I like the gusto and we all want to see pix! :banana:

[legacysti888]

No, you have to have skill to drive it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yeah... I figured. Wishful thinking.

I thought with all the German engineering put into the car, I was hoping for something easy like this mode. I hate balancing the clutch on a parking ramp when there's grid lock traffic. :crap:

It shouldn't be too bad on the stock BMW M clutch though cos it's sooooo light compared to my clutch designed to hold up to 500 ft/lbs awtq....

[edl]

I have an opportunity to buy a very, very low miles, mint condition, bone stock but extremely optioned out M5 manual. It stickered at over $100k new.
The price is very attrctive and all services are done by the the local BMW.

I've never owned a BMW and would like to hear from anyone here who owns one if you would advise on such a purchase or pass on it.
I've done some online research over the weekend and heard about the problems with the SMG but not too much on the manual.

I've driven both 2011 M3 manual and SMG and like it a lot and I am assuming the M5 is more luxurious in ride quality and less sharp on the handling and suspension of the current M3.

This car will be out of warranty in less than a year and would like to know what the cost of ownership after warranty will be. I have read a new clutch installed by dealership is under $3k and a new trans under $5k. I don't plan on abusing it but will be driving it like it's meant to be driven whenever possible. It will also be my daily driver.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any input and help.

I had a 2006 M5 with 7-speed SMG for awhile. It was okay. Yes, it was extremely fast in a straight line once you were rolling (not fast from a stop). It carried four people in comfort. Had tons of gadgets inside. But I prefer driving pure sports cars, like a Porsche 911 Turbo, so I sold it.

The other issue - gas mileage. It is horrendous. Expect 12, maybe 13mpg if you are light footed. I never saw more than 220 miles of range out of a tank.

Any reason you want the 6-speed manual, which is a performance downgrade over the SMG? If you track, definitely get SMG as that's where it shines. Especially when you're threshold braking.

Long story short, from my experience with the E60's I feel the 550i with sport package offers the best balance of performance, price, and fuel economy. The 550i's are 95% as good as the E39 M5, which was a nearly perfect car. The E60 M5 is a bit too much.

I still own a 550i with sport pack, and also have a 535xi wagon for my wife. Both are great cars. The 550i gets about 17mpg, the 535xi gets 22mpg. (The 535xi is chipped, and it's faster than the 550i btw)

Get a warranty if you can.

Here's my "pics or it didn't happen" pic :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2139/2475786414_07a49c877d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edlouie/2475786414/)
BMW M5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edlouie/2475786414/) by eddymundy (http://www.flickr.com/people/edlouie/), on Flickr

[edl]

+1.

Unless you can't live without the pure speed and handling of the M5 I'd get the regular 5 series(aka E39). The ride is incredible, handling is sweet and speed is as you please from a 528 to a 550...the last two digits being the engine size in litres. So the question for you is the incremental price and higher maintenance costs worth the incremental speed and handling? For me personally it is not. The traditional 5 series is perfection as is. But if you pull the trigger...amen brother. I like the gusto and we all want to see pix! :banana:

E39 is the older model which lived up to 2003.
E60 is the previous gen, which was 2004 to 2010.
F10 is the current gen, 2010+.

All models have their + and -. From my experience, the sweeties in the lineup are the E39 M5, and E60 550. If you're on a budget, a E60 535 with some tuning is good too.

If you can find a clean E39 M5, that's my favorite one. Yes, had one. Very torquey V8, lovely power oversteer just about anywhere you wanted it. Great sideshow car.

[crownjewelwl]

You have been infected with car lust. The only cure is to buy a totally over powered car and drive it. Otherwise you never get it out of your system.

You are buying a M5 which is totally impractical. If you are worried about insurance, warranties and other costs, don't get the car.

As soon as the novelty is gone, flip it, and cross it off your bucket list.

p.s. high-end cars are never a good deal, so stop kidding yourself. It's a toy and you want to have fun.

the lust never ends...dont kid yourself

[Ken Robb]

No, you have to have skill to drive it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

The new BMW manual cars have hill holders but I'm not sure about the M5. The ones I have driven all had SMGs (the work of the Devil).

[Charles M]

Great car and you can grab the 08 with relatively low miles AND GET CPO for the mid high 40's if you hunt...

The manuals are strong in that car but who knows.


Personally I wouldnt touch a used BMW tat wasnt CPO unless it was 5 figures below CPO cost for a comp car.


People (like me) drive the crap out of them... Relatively agressive drivers in M cars are the norm rather than the exception.

[tuxbailey]

Just

Do

It.

I am biased since I am a happy E36 M3 owner for over 156K miles.

[velosport]

I've never regretted my 06 M roadster, no problems at all.

A legacy to a M5 will be a big boy jump in performance and refinement.

[PoppaWheelie]

I've owned two M cars (M3 and MCoupe), both purchased from the original owner...and HELL yes I extended the warranties. Not as robust as the original, but better than nothing. Both are gone now (kids) but we have an X3 as our daily...that car pretty much lived at the dealer service for the first few years we owned it. However now that it has settled down it drives as well at 100k as the day we took it off the lot. Given our experiences and those of a few friends with X5's there's no way I'd want a new whiz-bang M5 without some umbrella.

What fun that must be to drive though...nice to have such a choice to make! I'm shocked I made it through that part of my life w/o losing my license to the CHP.

[CDM]

I almost bought a 2006 m5 two years ago. The price seemed too good to be true. The car was low milage cpo with good warranty. I had just sold an e46 m3 and decided I had had enough so I decided not to buy the car. The dealer called me back numerous times with even better offers which I am glad I resisted. That car was eventually sold for 8,000 less than the great price I turned down. Prices have tumbled from then till now. So, be sure the great price you refer to is what you think it is. This car also had the original sticker showing 96000!!

[slowgoing]

Do BMW manual transmissions have the hill 'hold' option/capability for their manuals?

2007 335i came with it. Don't know about the 2008 M5 though.

[djg]

The voice of ignorance, as I've never even driven that car . . . but with the stick, I'd say that if the car is clean, the records are good, and the price is right, then buy it. You want it? You can afford it? Buy the car. You'll like it. A good aftermarket warranty extension as mentioned above might help with peace of mind if it's not too dear.

My 2006 M3, with almost exactly 30k miles, was half the original sticker, and way below half of the current model (different car, obviously). Not one second of regret. My wife ruined a tire -- a little twinge at the price -- but no regrets, and no hassles either (although, as you know, the e46 is a different car).

[cuda2k]

Don't know if it's been already mentioned but I will state it again in case it has:

DO NOT LET IT GO OUT OF WARRANTY.

My boss has owned several BMWs since I've started working here. Namely a 04 M3 and a couple of 7-series. Each seems to start costing a lot of $$$ in repair as soon as the warranty runs out. Buy an extended service contract through the dealership. My boss has kicked himself every single time he hasn't.

[zap]

BMW manual transmissions are tough and routinely go 200,000+ miles with no problems provided the owner ignores the ridiculous "lifetime fill" story BMW now puts out. Change the fluid in it and the differential.at 30,000 mile intervals. Clutches that are not abused will go 100,000-150,000 miles.



True for all vehicles.

Also, if you have a garage, after each trip pop the hood on hot day's to let the heat escape.

I've been looking at M6's (svelte M5) and info posted here and on bimmer forums is good.

[nahtnoj]

+1.

Unless you can't live without the pure speed and handling of the M5 I'd get the regular 5 series(aka E39).

I meant get an E39 M5, not a 528 or 540.

[palincss]

Give some thought to the driving conditions where you drive. I don't know what it's like where you are, but around here performance above the level of a Honda Fit is mostly unusable, and manual transmissions can be a torment in highly congested stop-and-go traffic.

That blazing performance, cruising down the interstate at 120 mph, hitting the M button to jack the HP up to 500 -- it's all a thrilling erotic fantasy, but the reality is if you try driving like that you won't get far before you get ticketed or even arrested.

What's more, an M5 is going to cost a lot more to own and operate than a Subaru. There's a lot of difference between ~25 mpg of 87 octane for the Subie and 13 mpg of 93 octane for the M5, especially at $4.25 a gal for 93 octane, and the cost of service is going to be a lot more as well - perhaps twice as much for an ordinary 5 series with a 6 cyl engine as you've been paying for the Subie, and service cost for the M5 will probably be twice that of an ordinary 5 series.

Are you up for that, or is it going to be a shocking, horrifying surprise?

[bfd]

Give some thought to the driving conditions where you drive. I don't know what it's like where you are, but around here performance above the level of a Honda Fit is mostly unusable, and manual transmissions can be a torment in highly congested stop-and-go traffic.

That blazing performance, cruising down the interstate at 120 mph, hitting the M button to jack the HP up to 500 -- it's all a thrilling erotic fantasy, but the reality is if you try driving like that you won't get far before you get ticketed or even arrested.

What's more, an M5 is going to cost a lot more to own and operate than a Subaru. There's a lot of difference between ~25 mpg of 87 octane for the Subie and 13 mpg of 93 octane for the M5, especially at $4.25 a gal for 93 octane, and the cost of service is going to be a lot more as well - perhaps twice as much for an ordinary 5 series with a 6 cyl engine as you've been paying for the Subie, and service cost for the M5 will probably be twice that of an ordinary 5 series.

Are you up for that, or is it going to be a shocking, horrifying surprise?

I do agree that the gas mileage on an M5, especially an E60 with the V10 is going to be horrendous. Further, maintence is definitely going to be more than an *ordinary* 5 Series.

However, as an owner of an *ordinary* 5 Series (1990 E34 535i, 5spd), the one question I have is have you driven a BMW? Sorry, but unless you driven a BMW, it is hard to accept comparing one to a Subaru. Don't get me wrong, Subies are great and with 4 wheel drive, are fantastic in the snow. I would get one if I lived in snow country.

However, very few cars drive like a BMW. Drive one. If you can't tell the difference, stay with the Subaru.

Finally, the maintenace on my 535i is not that bad. It does require more attention than my Toyota minivan, but parts are not too outrageous. With a regular maintenance schedule, i.e., change diff & tranny oil every 30K; coolant and brake fluid every 2 years; filters every 30k, it will run for a very long time. Good Luck!

[dd74]

Are you up for that, or is it going to be a shocking, horrifying surprise?
I lived with this "surprise" for ten years with a Porsche. One of the best days of my (driving) life was the day I sold it.

These days, I want simple and strong (aka diesel). The raciest I'll go is a manual transmission.

If I want all-out speed, I can rent a spec-Miata for an afternoon at the local race track.

[Ken Robb]

I think the Subaru of the OP is a turboed hot rod so he's used to buying premium gas and quite a bit of it at that. :banana:

[davidlee]

If his Subaru really has 435 ponies, I don't think that they just sip the gasoline!!

[bfd]

I think the Subaru of the OP is a turboed hot rod so he's used to buying premium gas and quite a bit of it at that. :banana:

Duh, forgot about the Subaru WRX! Those things are fast and still get decent mpgs - probably 16/17 city; 25+freeway. Of course, the Subie is about 1000 pounds lighter than the M5, which probably get somewhere around 10-12 city; 16-18 freeway.

Still, for a big car, BMW M5s are the best handling. Yes, there are several others that come very close like the Audi RS, Cadillacs V-Series and AMG Mercedes. Good Luck!

[maunahaole]

I know Simon a little bit and I get the desire for this car. Dude does like his bib boy toys.....That said, it is waaaaay too much car to enjoy in the density of Honolulu. This is from someone who trolls around on an 1100cc moto on mostly the same streets (too much bike for here as well). His Subaru is probably too much car for the same thing, but it is super stealthy and you would not know what lurks under the hood aside from the subtle growl from the tailpipe.

In any event, if you get it, I want a ride.

[edl]

So, be sure the great price you refer to is what you think it is. This car also had the original sticker showing 96000!!

Here are the latest prices on the wholesale market for 2008 M5's, sorted by mileage so the OP can compare how good his deal is. Add about $750 in auction fees and maybe another $750-1250 for transporter if you feel like being realistic about fees.

PS: Don't ask me to find or buy a car for you. Thanks :)

***************************

Vehicle Identification

Search: Select Country: US
Year: 2008 Select Region: National
Make: B M W Seasonal Adjustment: No
Model: M SERIES
Style: M5 4D SEDAN

Transactions

Date Auction Sale Type Price Odometer Cond Color Eng Trans In Sample
07/07/11 NEVADA Lease $50,000 22,910 Above BLACK SA 10G A Yes
07/14/11 RIVRSIDE Lease $48,000 23,006 Above BLACK SA 10G 6 Yes
07/12/11 ORLANDO Lease $47,600 25,962 Above SPACE GR 10G A Yes
07/12/11 ORLANDO Lease $45,600 30,624 Avg LT BLUE 10G P Yes
07/27/11 PALM BCH Lease $44,000 34,325 Avg BLACK SA 10G A Yes
07/07/11 PA Lease $43,250 37,603 Avg MONACOBL 10G 6 Yes
07/14/11 RIVRSIDE Lease $44,500 44,797 Avg WHITE 10G P Yes
07/14/11 TX HOBBY Regular $36,500 47,924 Below GRAY 10G 3 No
07/12/11 NYMETSKY Regular $39,250 52,608 Avg GRAY 10G Yes
07/07/11 PA Regular $37,300 57,347 Below BLACK 10G 6 Yes
07/07/11 ATLANTA Regular $41,375 57,370 Avg Black 10C A Yes
07/14/11 RIVRSIDE Lease $39,000 60,740 Avg ALPINE W 10G A Yes
07/20/11 NJ Regular $37,100 70,629 Below WHITE 10G M Yes

[legacysti888]

The BMW M5 in question is about $50k and has less than 3,000 miles.

My Subie gets about 15mpg in mixed urban (80%)/freeway spirited driving. It has 850cc injectors. 435whp actually translates to about 517bhp if you factor a @ 19% drivetrain loss for the AWD. Torque is 467 at the wheels which is @ 555 ft/lbs. The Legacy weighs 3300lbs. It's a fun car to toot around.

If you want power, you gotta give up something and for cars over 400bhp, it's poor MPG. Less power, better MPG. Let's not include hybrids here.

I have driven the 5 series up to a 535 but not the new F10 body. It's so much nicer than the 3 series or maybe I like it because it's just sooo smooth in the ride. I have also driven the CTS-V and it rides very nice too but doesn't have the BMW FEEL.

I understand the cost of ownership will be higher than a normal BMW, but from what actual BMW M owners are saying, if you take care of it, it's not too bad.

Paul, you are right. It's too much car for Honolulu and I may come to my senses before I pull the trigger. I have to make the decision by Thursday before my trip to the CONUS.

[palincss]

As long as you've got your eyes open wide and you understand what you're getting (and getting yourself into) fine. Enjoy. I guess if you've still got your license you've either mastered self control or have a special relationship with the police; either way, it will stand you in good stead.

[verticaldoug]

It has 850cc injectors. 435whp actually translates to about 517bhp if you factor a @ 19% drivetrain loss for the AWD. Torque is 467 at the wheels which is @ 555 ft/lbs. The Legacy weighs 3300lbs. It's a fun car to toot around.
.

You took your STI and further tuned it? Sick bastard!

As I said in my first post, you have car lust. You want this toy. Get the car, tear it up, and when you are sick of it, flip it.

After you finish with the M5, I suggest a RS4 tuned by Sportec in Switzerland.

[Ken Robb]

where on Oahu can you use more than 200HP for 5 seconds??

[maunahaole]

There are only a couple of spots. H1 between Waikele and Kapolei. Up the hill on H2. H3 between town side and the tunnel. Pali Hwy between Kailua and the tunnel. Back roads between Wahiawa and North Shore. That's about it that I can come up with right now.

[palincss]

Maybe he can get a part on Hawaii Five O, they drive like that all the time, everywhere.

[dhoff]

It is among the finest cars ever built. If you can handle the cost of ownership, have a blast! There is nothing, but nothing like a modern M5. They do everything well. And of course there are many cars that do one or more of the things better. I am a long time owner of Audi S's and RS's, have owned them as is and aken them apart and beefed them up and all. If what you want is one of the greatest sprts sedans ever built and you can handle the burdens that come with owning such a magnificent beast; do it.

[pegdrgr]

I can say with first hand experience that Simon's car is stupid fast, and way too fast for Honolulu. While most people think the M5 will be a "faster" car it will actually be a step down in acceleration. It will definitely be a step up in the ride department. If you think the M5 is a waste in the daily driving routine in Honolulu a high strung 4 cylinder making 467 ft lbs has to be even worse. That being said I don't believe you can have too much power in a car :)

The only way I would personally own a BMW is with a warranty. I totally agree so long as you go into it with your eyes open there is nothing wrong with the car. If you think you are going to get Accord maintenance costs and reliability you are going to be very disappointed. If you are looking for a car that has exceptional over all performance, has a feel to it, and ultimately makes you believe a car can have a soul then the BMW is one of the better choices. The last four times we bought new cars we looked at BMW, but ultimately decided on the better value options. That is more based on my perception that we don't make enough money to truly afford the BMW. It sounds like in this case my biggest objection has already been over come, as I doubt the car will depreciate that much more in the next couple years, especially if you do not put that many miles a year on it.

Look into the extended warranty, my friends who love BMWs all purchase those and have yet to regret it. Basically look at it as part of the purchase price, if you can get the warranty and still afford it then do it!

[mister]

a $50k car that everyone keeps saying be sure to buy the extended warranty with...
lol
go for it dude!
i bet it'll be a blast to drive when it's actually running :p

[legacysti888]

I went to the BMW dealership after work to inquire about the extended warranty of this particular M5.

The BMW Platinum extended warranty with the extended maintenance program will cost me $10,000.

Just wow.

[Louis]

As I look around for a car to replace my '97 Integra I gradually ratchet up the price I'm willing to pay and get into nicer and nicer vehicles. Then at some point the sanity check portion of my brain kicks in and reminds that the primary purpose of the car is to transport me reliably from point a to point b. Everything else is gravy. At that point I come back down to earth and repeat the process.

I have little experience with Bimmers, but from what I can tell, they are great cars to drive, but not long-term keepers if you factor in maintenance costs. Right now where I am in life I can afford a pretty wide range of vehicles, but balancing what I want from a car with what I'd need to pay, it just doesn't make sense to spend big wads of cash. YMMV

Buy the car that gives you what you need and some of what you want.

[pegdrgr]

I went to the BMW dealership after work to inquire about the extended warranty of this particular M5.

The BMW Platinum extended warranty with the extended maintenance program will cost me $10,000.

Just wow.


Remember to look at it like this, you are paying about 60K for a car with a sticker price of over 100K. This means the major depreciation hit has already been taken. You will be covered for all warranty issues till X miles(100K?). If that is a deal you like and can afford go for it. If the added 10K pushes the car out of your budget, then you can't afford it at 50ish K.

As I recall you can also sell back the remainder of the warranty if you decided not to keep the car long term.

Good luck!

[AngryScientist]

I have little experience with Bimmers, but from what I can tell, they are great cars to drive, but not long-term keepers if you factor in maintenance costs.

i totally disagree with that with respect to more pedestrian BMWs. Naturally aspirated, moderately tunes BMWs generally just go and go.

more than a handful of people in my office have 325s with well over 200k on the clock, and they still run as nice and tight as new. manual cars in particular are pretty reliable. a sensor here and there may go, but no more so than any other modern car in my experience.

[fuzzalow]

$10,000 for a warranty with the extended maintenance program. Just incredible.

IMO, High performance cars like M5s, 911s, etc are great fun only for a little while if used primarily on the street. They can't be driven hard enough on the street to get a thrill. If you get this car, you will soon learn every cloverleaf on & off ramp in your area - you will go at speeds exiting on the off ramp faster than cars traveling in the right lane of the highway you were just on. Fun but not enough. And the law will eventually catch you.

If you haven't experienced a car like a M5 before and you don't mind the expense, go for it. Once you've had it a while, you will know what it can do and whether it is worth it to you to have so much untapped reserve in a car.

BTW, if you get it, get the manual transmission, paddle shifting is for wussies.

[FlashUNC]

BTW, if you get it, get the manual transmission, paddle shifting is for wussies.

I can think of a few Formula 1 drivers who might disagree.

[Ken Robb]

I can think of a few Formula 1 drivers who might disagree.

They're still wussies---just really fast wussies. :)

[JMerring]

I can think of a few Formula 1 drivers who might disagree.

they drive what they're paid to drive. i'd imagine they all have at least 1 car in their private stable with a manual transmission.

[edl]

Who knew Serotta forums is a car forum :)

i totally disagree with that with respect to more pedestrian BMWs. Naturally aspirated, moderately tunes BMWs generally just go and go.

more than a handful of people in my office have 325s with well over 200k on the clock, and they still run as nice and tight as new. manual cars in particular are pretty reliable. a sensor here and there may go, but no more so than any other modern car in my experience.

To add to AngryScientist's comment - my brother owned a 1993 E36 M5 that we purchased used from a BMW CCA member with 85K on the clock for $19K. We sold it with 235K miles. Original engine, original transmission. One clutch change, tie-rods, water pump, oil pump, t-stat, valve adjustment, a few sets of rotors, pads. Nothing more than what you should expect for the mileage. And it did not live an easy life. That car saw redline on a daily basis.

BMW's are generally very reliable. Okay, they're not as reliable as a Lexus. But your Lexus doesn't rev to 8K, does it?

IMO, High performance cars like M5s, 911s, etc are great fun only for a little while if used primarily on the street. They can't be driven hard enough on the street to get a thrill. If you get this car, you will soon learn every cloverleaf on & off ramp in your area - you will go at speeds exiting on the off ramp faster than cars traveling in the right lane of the highway you were just on. Fun but not enough. And the law will eventually catch you.


I disagree with this comment. A true sports car will provide a superior driving experience even for a trip to the grocery store. It's not all about speed. Steering feel, cornering response etc all matter. Then there's the appearance and customization options. The OP is familiar with that obviously.


If you want power, you gotta give up something and for cars over 400bhp, it's poor MPG. Less power, better MPG. Let's not include hybrids here.


I get 18mpg in my 911 Turbo, which is lightly tuned to 450rwhp. I'm telling you, as someone who's owned/owns enthusiast cars (Supra TT, Evo, M5, 996TT)...the M5 gets horrendous fuel mileage. That's why I sold mine, honestly. Good thing you live on an island, not many places to go :)

I won't deter you from getting an M5, but have you considered a 911 Turbo? The 996 Turbos have depreciated so much that you can buy a 03-04 for around 50K. Put 10-15K in and you have 600rwhp + AWD + 3400 lb curb weight (if performance is your goal).

[Ken Robb]

My opinion on BMW's SMG transmissions: they are faster on a track and remove the possibility of a missed shift when the driver is under pressure. They are lousy "automatic transmissions" for the street. I have never found any setting of their many choices that is as good as I can shift a manual. The shifts are either very slow and drawn-out not nearly as nice as a regular automatic or really quick and rough. When I select one of the middle programs and try to time throttle lifts with the programmed shifting I can emulate a mediocre driver with a manual tranny. Bleh!

[verticaldoug]

and sadly, someone like Jenson Button not only drives faster than all us, he rides his bike faster than most of us.

[edl]

I have driven the 5 series up to a 535 but not the new F10 body. It's so much nicer than the 3 series or maybe I like it because it's just sooo smooth in the ride. I have also driven the CTS-V and it rides very nice too but doesn't have the BMW FEEL.


soooo smooth. That's exactly why I sold my Evo 9 and kept the 550i. For practical purposes it was every bit as fast when needed but much more comfortable. I drive SF to OC a lot (400 miles) and I feel fresh when we take either the 550i or the 535xi. I guess you could call the 5 series the perfect "endurance road" machine :)

[edl]

My opinion on BMW's SMG transmissions: they are faster on a track and remove the possibility of a missed shift when the driver is under pressure. They are lousy "automatic transmissions" for the street. I have never found any setting of their many choices that is as good as I can shift a manual. The shifts are either very slow and drawn-out not nearly as nice as a regular automatic or really quick and rough. When I select one of the middle programs and try to time throttle lifts with the programmed shifting I can emulate a mediocre driver with a manual tranny. Bleh!

100% agree. SMG is the hot stuff for track, period. A good manual driver will always be able to operate the car smoother on the street (and probably have a more rewarding driving experience).

[zap]

cut

The BMW M5 in question is about $50k and has less than 3,000 miles.

That could be a problem. Potentially not enough regular use to keep critical parts lubed.

[fuzzalow]

A true sports car will provide a superior driving experience even for a trip to the grocery store. It's not all about speed. Steering feel, cornering response etc all matter. Then there's the appearance and customization options. The OP is familiar with that obviously.

Most posters seem to like cars as much as bikes, so no argument to justify the performance envelope of a M5 is needed. Overkill is good. :)

But there is not a whole lotta difference between a M5 and a pedestrian 5 series that becomes evident for a car driven at street velocities. Steering feel for both is very good (albeit quicker lock-to-lock on the M5) and different spring/shock rates don't mean a thing for cornering in street driving. On the street, both cars feel pretty good, so save the cash and drive for less.

But perfectly understandable that if you've not had a overkill streetcar experience, then you gotta try it at least once.

I will concede that in the street car world, nothing turns in like a Porsche.

[legacysti888]

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/cto/2515509238.html

Not getting more than 200 miles to a tank of gas may be a nuisance enough to be the deal breaker. I can see myself getting real tired of looking for a Chevron gas station (local BMW approved gas only) often.

[tuxbailey]

i totally disagree with that with respect to more pedestrian BMWs. Naturally aspirated, moderately tunes BMWs generally just go and go.

more than a handful of people in my office have 325s with well over 200k on the clock, and they still run as nice and tight as new. manual cars in particular are pretty reliable. a sensor here and there may go, but no more so than any other modern car in my experience.

+1

If you are the types who has to take your car to the dealer or the shop to have routine brake jobs done or oil change, then don't buy an expensive car.

With all the information available from the internet, it is very easy to do DIY maintenance if you are willing to invest in some tools and time, which is not unlike working on your bike.

I got my car (E36 M3) with 34K miles. It has 156K now. I do all the brake works, oil changes, etc, myself. The car is reliable and drive it to work 505/50 mix of highway/city use. It gets average of 22 mpg, which is pretty decent for a higher performance car from that era.

It brings a smile everyday when I drive it through some nice, twisty roads in Rock Creek park in DC.

[Louis]

i totally disagree with that with respect to more pedestrian BMWs. Naturally aspirated, moderately tunes BMWs generally just go and go.

Perhaps, but the extended warranty cost quoted above suggests otherwise for the vehicle in question here. (Or else the warranty is a massive, massive rip-off.)

[dd74]

So is the 335i that much more of a performance car than the 330i? I would think a 330i manual with a sport suspension, and normally aspirated engine would put up quite a fight to the 335i.

[FlashUNC]

My opinion on BMW's SMG transmissions: they are faster on a track and remove the possibility of a missed shift when the driver is under pressure. They are lousy "automatic transmissions" for the street. I have never found any setting of their many choices that is as good as I can shift a manual. The shifts are either very slow and drawn-out not nearly as nice as a regular automatic or really quick and rough. When I select one of the middle programs and try to time throttle lifts with the programmed shifting I can emulate a mediocre driver with a manual tranny. Bleh!

Before I bought my GTI, I test drove a 2008 VW R32. Was my first exposure to VW/Audi's DSG gearbox, and I very nearly bought the car even though it wasn't a stick.
Just a fantastic transmission on the test drive.

Then I read about the $400 fluid changes every 20,000 miles, and the R32's AWD system being very, very expensive to replace should anything go wrong.

Needless to say, I went with the 6-spd GTI.

[edl]

Most posters seem to like cars as much as bikes, so no argument to justify the performance envelope of a M5 is needed. Overkill is good. :)

But there is not a whole lotta difference between a M5 and a pedestrian 5 series that becomes evident for a car driven at street velocities. Steering feel for both is very good (albeit quicker lock-to-lock on the M5) and different spring/shock rates don't mean a thing for cornering in street driving. On the street, both cars feel pretty good, so save the cash and drive for less.

But perfectly understandable that if you've not had a overkill streetcar experience, then you gotta try it at least once.

I will concede that in the street car world, nothing turns in like a Porsche.

I think we agree more than we disagree. I do think in recent years, as cars in general have gotten faster and sportier as a whole, there is a smaller performance spread nowadays between the "standard" car and the "performance" version.

That being said, a short wheelbase, properly suspended low weight sports car will always be amazing to drive. And if you like Porsche, you'll love Ferrari. :beer:

[zap]

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/cto/2515509238.html

Not getting more than 200 miles to a tank of gas may be a nuisance enough to be the deal breaker. I can see myself getting real tired of looking for a Chevron gas station (local BMW approved gas only) often.

You can go to other retailers as well.

http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

[edl]

So is the 335i that much more of a performance car than the 330i? I would think a 330i manual with a sport suspension, and normally aspirated engine would put up quite a fight to the 335i.

In a straight line, a stock 335i is much faster than a 330i. A chipped 335i is much much faster. Watch Youtube below:

335i with a chip versus V10 M5 (http://youtu.be/9qFJj2U84LY)

My wife's 535xi chipped wagon only loses 1 car length to a stock 996TT on a 70-120mph freeway pull.

[Ken Robb]

Before I bought my GTI, I test drove a 2008 VW R32. Was my first exposure to VW/Audi's DSG gearbox, and I very nearly bought the car even though it wasn't a stick.
Just a fantastic transmission on the test drive.

Then I read about the $400 fluid changes every 20,000 miles, and the R32's AWD system being very, very expensive to replace should anything go wrong.

Needless to say, I went with the 6-spd GTI.

I think that was a dual clutch not SMG and I love those: quick shifts, no pumping losses, and quite smooth in automatic mode.

[mister]

my brother has an R32 and holycrap does that car have some badass brakes on it...

[edl]

I think that was a dual clutch not SMG and I love those: quick shifts, no pumping losses, and quite smooth in automatic mode.

Yep, A3 and R32 have DSG. Great transmission, smoother than SMG for daily driving.

[Pete Serotta]

SMG is not one I like and have stick in everyone over the last 20 plus years.


SMG might be wonderful on race tracks but in day to day it is more a negative than a positive on many avenues. The VW trans is a very good one in the AUDi and if I was to get an AUDI or probably a VW it is a "top list" item to see if he meets your requirements, I have never seen a negative or heard of one. SMG, for me at least is not a option for the road driver.

[slowgoing]

So is the 335i that much more of a performance car than the 330i? I would think a 330i manual with a sport suspension, and normally aspirated engine would put up quite a fight to the 335i.

335i IS that much better. Had a 2005 330Ci stick performance package, now have 335i. No comparison right off the line, 335i is much faster. I liked the handling of the 330 better though, but that was probably because of the performance package. Now you can get a 335i with performance package.

[bfd]

335i IS that much better. Had a 2005 330Ci stick performance package, now have 335i. No comparison right off the line, 335i is much faster. I liked the handling of the 330 better though, but that was probably because of the performance package. Now you can get a 335i with performance package.

Actually, what you want is the 335is:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/07/08/bmwblog-on-track-comparison-m3-vs-335is-bmw%e2%80%99s-sibling-rivalry/

The 335is is only offered as a two-door coupe. However, if you need 4 doors, BMW is now offering the "limited performance edition" for its sedan:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/07/20/august-2011-bmw-performance-edition-parts-available-to-135i-and-335i-customers


Good Luck!

[legacysti888]

for all the help, information and definitely education on BMWs.

I will be test driving and taking a very close look at the car 8hrs from now.

Will make my decision then.

I hope I come to my senses. :rolleyes:

It is not all about raw performance for me. I seek the perfect balance of a super sport 4-door sedan daily driver.

[dd74]

What's the 335i get mpg wise?

[Pete Serotta]

What's the 335i get mpg wise?

Kelly BB and others have the official MPG but my guess is low of 18 and high of 25 (steady cruise on highway)


Get better than an M3...My high is about 22 on highway and under 20 on "fun" rides :no: :D

[Dlevy05]

for all the help, information and definitely education on BMWs.

I will be test driving and taking a very close look at the car 8hrs from now.

Will make my decision then.

I hope I come to my senses. :rolleyes:

It is not all about raw performance for me. I seek the perfect balance of a super sport 4-door sedan daily driver.


If this is really what you seek, I fear you may be looking at the wrong car.

If I were you, and I know this may just be too tall an order to fill, but DRIVE the following cars -

1. 1995 Alfa Romeo 164Q - It is a four door Ferrari in every sense of the word. Maintenance and Reliability will match, if not better, the BMW. This is not the fastest, but definitely the most sporty, sedan I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know.

2. 2004 and up Audi S4, or RS4, if it falls in your budget.

3. A 2007 M3 sedan, with a manual transmission, of course.

If you're looking for anything more substantial, you'd be better off with a Maserati Quattroporte, Audi S8, or even the bulbous panamera

[maunahaole]

Simon is buying a car today.

[Pete Serotta]

Simon is buying a car today.


Wish him a smile and a ride he wanted. Pete

[19wisconsin64]

Hi, the M5 of that year is quite an amazing car. It's a very heavy, very very powerful car...will cost huge amounts to repair and keep on the road.

I'd go for the M3, but I'm biased, because I've had several perfect years with my 335i.

The 5 series is a lot larger inside.

In the price range you are looking for my only advice is to only buy exactly what you ..... in this economy you can find it at a very low price.

Cheers from the 0-60 in the 4 something seconds or less club....enjoy!!

[Louis]

Simon is buying a car today.

Did he finally settle on the Dodge Caravan, or did he get the Aerostar? :p

[pegdrgr]

Cheers from the 0-60 in the 4 something seconds or less club....enjoy!!

You realize he is already in the 3 second 0-60 club with his lowly Subaru, right?

[erolorhun]

So did our fellow forumite get M5'd?

[drock]

Warranty is a big issue as nothing is cheap to fix on it.

[slowgoing]

What's the 335i get mpg wise?

Coupe, stick, cruising 70 on flat freeways and not spooling up the turbos, the MPG ranges from 26 to just over 30. Light wind was with me today from San Bernadino to the coast and I got 34 mpg, not uncommon.

[Ahneida Ride]

First car was a BMW 2002 .....

Just be aware of the dealer charges for maintenance.
They can be brutal.

[ThasFACE]

I fully endorse any M5 purchase since I'm an irrationally huge fan of those cars. When I do get around to buying a new/new-to-me car (had an e36 M3 sedan (estoril, stick) for a handful of years) it'll either be a nice-condition e39 or I'll go crazy and throw down for this (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/2012-bmw-m5-ar100010.html) in steel grey. So awesome.

[legacysti888]

Sadly, no.

Seller and I couldn't agree on terms.

Not a loss for me right now as I realise that it isn't so much the cost of ownership of the M5 that has discouraged me from buying it, but the fact that I will only get at most 120-150 miles to a tank of gas with the style of driving I am accustomed to.

That is totally unacceptable. However, if BMW increased the fuel cell by 10 more gallons to a total of 28 gallons, I will buy it outright.

[HomardBreton]

..the M5 consumes masses of gas and got a lot of technical gadgets, which are VERY susceptable...There´s a reason, why it´s a "good deal" - the maintenance costs are tremendous. I tell you. Same for the Audi RS6 Estate, which is brutal and savage as well with it´s 580 HP. Funny cars, but no real sports cars - too heavy and not nimble.

If you would like to go for a sports car around 100K USD - take the Porsche GT3 ( RS ); there is nearly nothing of those electronic gadgets and the car is an absolute masterpiece in engineering. There is sooooo much grip, an breathtaking behaviour in corners, accelerating and brrraaaaaking. Absolutely mindblowing. That´s a unique driving experience. I´ve done it in a friends one on the Nürburgring Nordschleife ( 1,5 H from my residence ). Really: no better sportscar available in this pricing range.

And if sporty - but not too much - and practical for the bikes too. The new 535 D touring BMW with M package - 300HP / 600 NM torque, 0-60mph 5.7 sec. and an avg. consumption of nearly 32mpg diesel. There´s fun, practicability and less carbon dioxide... If you´ve got the chance to drive it: do it....that´an ecological, all-day sporty car.

[verticaldoug]

LegacySTI

Why not go vintage? My friends and I were all into the super cars for a while but you can never open them up unless you belong to a club and have a track day.

I went to a vintage Aston Vantage and although it handles like a lead sled, it is pure joy. Another buddy of mine sold his Ferrari and bought a Smart Car. The smart car is more scary on the freeway then the Ferrari ever was. . .

[dd74]

A practical but fast BMW: the 335d - all day power, all day (diesel) fuel mileage.

[jimcav]

Sadly, no.

Seller and I couldn't agree on terms.

Not a loss for me right now .

I am late to this thread, but don't see the attraction of the 5 series or really any big ridiculous HP sedan. Super heavy, so to get any performance they need a v10 etc. same issues with the mercedes cl and sl series. anyway, i have ridden in many friend's BMWs, the only one i'd buy is the short lived z3 coupe. personally, I love sports cars, and have had some great looking ones (all used) starting with an '81 trans am. If you want a driver's cars get a 911 (if needed they have a nice bike rack), 26mph cruising on freeways and I just saw a TOP gear where it (911 s) smoked the M6.
you can get a 997 for 50k, a 996 for much less, or 996 turbo for 50k
I once bought a cl600 for 30k--2001 model still under starmark warranty at the time and it was heavy, but some fun, and the massaging seats were so welcome after a hard run or ride (yeah the bike lay easily in the trunk with wheels off).
happy hunting
jim

[Pete Serotta]

It was in the Orange Colour with black interior and orange stitching. It is first the dealer got and is sold. Looked nice ......another option for you.... :)