View Full Version : Opinions on carbon in CS, SS, Seatpost tubes?
eric007
07-31-2011, 09:10 PM
This question applies largely to titanium bikes, though there is no reason it could not apply to steel.
Of the many places one can put carbon, the seatstays and chainstays seem the most popular The legend can be had with ti or carbon seatstays, as can the IF crown jewel. And Seven has long had a popular bike (which has changed names 3 times) with carbone in the seatpost tube and seatstays.
Any strong preferences for any particular combination of carbon in these areas (none, all 3, some combination) and why (though I presume a preferred effect on ride quality would be the main reason, setting aside cost on what would necessarily be a non-cheap bike). Thx.
Jack Brunk
07-31-2011, 09:40 PM
If you need carbon in the rear you probably should find another sport. Take this from a guy who has pounded a few thousand miles this year on the best mountain bike frames made today.
Bike fit and a builder who knows what their doing is so much more important than thinking you need carbon in the rear.
John M
07-31-2011, 10:05 PM
My opinion is that metal bikes should be metal. I can't see how the carbon adds anything of value to an aluminum, steel, or ti bike.
Pete Serotta
08-01-2011, 06:58 AM
and he would be my "goto" source. :beer: (as well as for wine one of these days) :D PETE
If you need carbon in the rear you probably should find another sport. Take this from a guy who has pounded a few thousand miles this year on the best mountain bike frames made today.
Bike fit and a builder who knows what their doing is so much more important than thinking you need carbon in the rear.
dekindy
08-01-2011, 07:21 AM
Here is what Carl Strong thinks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J20NmfEwDmY
oldpotatoe
08-01-2011, 07:53 AM
This question applies largely to titanium bikes, though there is no reason it could not apply to steel.
Of the many places one can put carbon, the seatstays and chainstays seem the most popular The legend can be had with ti or carbon seatstays, as can the IF crown jewel. And Seven has long had a popular bike (which has changed names 3 times) with carbone in the seatpost tube and seatstays.
Any strong preferences for any particular combination of carbon in these areas (none, all 3, some combination) and why (though I presume a preferred effect on ride quality would be the main reason, setting aside cost on what would necessarily be a non-cheap bike). Thx.
Put 3 people in a room and ask about carbon stuff in frames and get 4 opinions.
Ti and steel are wonderful materials all by themselves. Putting carbon 'pieces' in them do nothing to make the ride better, make the frame last longer or make the fit better.
Carbon blend bikes are mostly marketing, IMHO. Pinarello, Seven, lots of others now. Rear ends...seatstay, ti 'lugs' with carbon tubes. Carbon seatposts are lighter than an aluminum one, same for handlebars. Not much else.
I think the best frame is the one that fits you and is of one material.
IMHO
dekindy
08-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Put 3 people in a room and ask about carbon stuff in frames and get 4 opinions.
Ti and steel are wonderful materials all by themselves. Putting carbon 'pieces' in them do nothing to make the ride better, make the frame last longer or make the fit better.
Carbon blend bikes are mostly marketing, IMHO. Pinarello, Seven, lots of others now. Rear ends...seatstay, ti 'lugs' with carbon tubes. Carbon seatposts are lighter than an aluminum one, same for handlebars. Not much else.
I think the best frame is the one that fits you and is of one material.
IMHO
Apparently there are quite a few esteemed builders that disagree with you. Carl Strong and Ben Serotta come to mind.
oldpotatoe
08-01-2011, 09:42 AM
Apparently there are quite a few esteemed builders that disagree with you. Carl Strong and Ben Serotta come to mind.
And quite a few 'esteemed' builders agree with me, Moots and Waterford come to mind.
Like I said, 3 people, 4(or more) opinions.
Even in his video, Carl said he put swoopy seat stays 'cuz they look good'.
93legendti
08-01-2011, 09:52 AM
Apparently there are quite a few esteemed builders that disagree with you. Carl Strong and Ben Serotta come to mind.
Yup.
I owned a Legend with the ti rear end and another with the carbon rear end at the same time. I also owned an Ottrott with the ti rear and the carbon rear end at the same time.
I sold the ti rear end models and kept the carbon rear end models. Now, I just own the Ottrott ST, which is perfect. To each their own.
tv_vt
08-01-2011, 10:23 AM
To answer the original question, I would stay away from carbon chainstays. Seatstays not a big deal either way, but the chainstay gets a little more wear and tear - dropped chains, tire rub, heel rub, etc. Nice to have a metal for that area. Seatstays take a lot less abuse, so carbon there isn't as big a deal. Just one opinion, from a Fierte IT owner.
Thom
1centaur
08-01-2011, 12:19 PM
My belief is that those mixed frames were mostly transition frames from makers who did not want to go all carbon yet, in part because they did not want to undermine their existing metal offerings. I do not think it likely that mixed materials bring some level of perfection to the light/stiff/comfortable equation that cannot be achieved otherwise (if it can be achieved in a given material). The stays and ST in particular seem least likely to provide a strong relative difference across materials. We've long heard how the CAAD 9/10 stays are tuned effectively to provide comfort, and the vertical compression of a ST is very unlikely to produce greater comfort in carbon than in metal, just as even more proximally located seat posts tend not to. The weight savings are also likely to be slight in those areas, I think.
My philosophy is to get metal or get carbon. I respect the love of the Ottrot often expressed here; I just have doubts that it's the mixing of materials that's key to the ride quality.
eric007
08-01-2011, 10:20 PM
Thanks for the many and well crafted thoughts. I suspected more than a few folks here had been through this issue before. I thought I would enjoy hearing them, and I did. -- E
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