Schwinn Prelude?

[stephenmarklay]

Were these decent bikes (vintage late 80's I am guessing).

[Lifelover]

Decent yes, great no! My recollection is that they kinda light touring bikes a step up from the Traveller.

I suspect it's asian made not Waterford made. I suspect it could deliver many many happy miles. I don't know that one would be worth much more than $100 even in great shape.

As a very, very, very simplistic view on pre-brifter bikes, especially Schwinns, if the shift lever are on the down tube it was a decent "cyclist" quality bike. If the shift levers are on the head tube it was a recreation level bike.

[Muttleyone]

I use to own an '88 Prelude. Columbus Tenax tubing, indexed Suntour down tube shifters. A nice mid level bike. My market in Dallas anywhere from $200 and down. A nice bike, a lot of bang for the buck.

Mutt

[stephenmarklay]

Yep that sounds like the bike.

For 200 I would likely pick it up and ride it.

I emailed the seller. I live within a couple of minutes from him.

http://spokane.craigslist.org/bik/2514833684.html

[Lifelover]

Yep that sounds like the bike.

For 200 I would likely pick it up and ride it.

I emailed the seller. I live within a couple of minutes from him.

http://spokane.craigslist.org/bik/2514833684.html


It's not a fixed gear so I will certainly do some back peddling from my initial $100 or lower post.

I would consider paying $300 for that one if he would ship to Va Beach. That would be the perfect bike to send my kid off to college with.

[Muttleyone]

Good looking bike. $300 is on the high end, I feel. Go ride it, offer less then the asking price. You might get a deal.

Mutt

[stephenmarklay]

I just took talked to the guy. I am going to take a look see.

[chuckroast]

I'll echo what Mutleyone said. I bought one new from the local Schwinn dealer in 1990 or 91 as I recall. It was lugged, had indexed downtube shifters and decent wheels as I recall. It was good riding bike.

$300 seems like a pretty penny but I realize markets vary from city to city. Here in KC I would guess it would go for two bills.

[Muttleyone]

I suspect it's asian made not Waterford made.

Not Waterford but it is U.S. made.

Mutt

[miguel]

made in mississippi if american

tempo of that vintage was a heluva bike. tenax was a good tubeset and the prelude/premis/tempo/supersport were all great entry level machines and can be tricked out to fit modern components.

if i didnt have the bikes i have now, or want the bikes i want, or own an 87 paramount, i would totally buy one of those. awesome bikes, built to last, lugged and pretty.

the paint is probably dull though, they are known for that.

[stephenmarklay]

I am going to stop at his place tomorrow morning. Maybe I will use it on my Rollers if nothing else. Just looks too nice not to be ridden.

[97CSI]

I would consider paying $300 for that one if he would ship to Va Beach. That would be the perfect bike to send my kid off to college with.Around here (Ocean City, NJ), you just need to cruise around OC, Avalon, Stone Harbor and the other beach towns and you will soon have a 'college bike' for nothing. Folks toss them all the time. Especially towards the end of summer and first month of fall.

[rccardr]

Tenax Schwinns are excellent riders, especially when updated with a modern drivertrain & decent wheels and tires. My 21.5 pound '87 Tempo with 105, which is almost as fast and every bit as reliable as my Corsa Extra:

http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/rccardr/87%20Schwinn%20Tempo%209%20speed/New87Temporightsidedoor.jpg

[Muttleyone]

Here is a pic of my 88 Prelude. It was a too big for me so it got sold, but a still a nice ride. I still dig the 80's paint.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/Muttleyone/DSCF0010_5.jpg

While we're posting 80's Schwinns... Here is a pic of the Preludes big brother. It's an 88 Wheaties/Schwinn team bike. These are older pics and she is waiting on her owner to get busy building some new wheels with her proper Wolber rims.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/Muttleyone/DSCF0008_5.jpg

Mutt

[stephenmarklay]

Nice bikes. What is required to update these. What is the rear drop out spacing and what is needed to update them.

[Muttleyone]

Rear is 126. You could cold set them (look at Sheldon's site), but you don't have to. You can just slide a 130 hub in there. It's a little tight but will work just fine.

Mutt

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks, I thought that was the case.

[wtex]

Some in the late 80's/early 90's had 128mm rear spacing.

[rccardr]

Turns out I know the guy who's selling that Prelude and he's good to deal with. Around here, for that price = deal.

Rear spacing is 126-ish, sometimes a little wider, but eaasy to slip in a 130 OLD rear wheel. Everything else just drops into place. I used Tektro 530's with R200 levers, DA 7700 9 speed DT shifters, 105 FD and RD, a Truvativ compact crank and Shimano 115 sealed BB, and an Ultegra/Open Pro wheelset with Pro3's. Rides like a dream.

[97CSI]

Lugged Schwinn threads are my fav. Some in the late 80's/early 90's had 128mm rear spacing.Doesn't matter if its 126 or 128. Its steel, so just make it 130. Any decent LBS will have the tool to do this. All it takes is the tool with a couple of 5/8" wrenches and ten minutes time and, voila, 130mm.

Here is my 54.5cm '87 Paramount, just back from our Wed a.m. 'old farts' ride. Repainted at the Waterford plant in '98. I'm guessing I have around 35K miles on this faithful steed. Wonderful bicycle. Was thinking the new Campy wheels had too much 'bling' and was going to remove the decals. But, now I'm not sure.

[stephenmarklay]

Matt? Funny. He is a really nice kid. I bought the bike. I had been thinking about getting a single speed to cruise around with and ride with my 6 year old girl. This bike will be perfect for that.

Turns out I know the guy who's selling that Prelude and he's good to deal with. Around here, for that price = deal.

Rear spacing is 126-ish, sometimes a little wider, but eaasy to slip in a 130 OLD rear wheel. Everything else just drops into place. I used Tektro 530's with R200 levers, DA 7700 9 speed DT shifters, 105 FD and RD, a Truvativ compact crank and Shimano 115 sealed BB, and an Ultegra/Open Pro wheelset with Pro3's. Rides like a dream.

[stephenmarklay]

Well I decided after some deliberation to buy the bike.

I think I will get some use out of it. I am leery to spend any money on it right now so I am going to make a few small changes for now.

The good: Clean little bike. The silver bits aren't as shiny as it was 25 years ago but clean. It looked good when I picked it up, paint not too dull and no rust. I spent a good couple of hours with some automotive polishes etc and now it certainly does not look its age. The seller took some time to go through it and said the bearing surfaces looked like it had very little actual use. Rings and sprockets look great.

Everything is made in France or the US. You won't find that on many bikes.

Bad:I think I counted 400 spokes all in all and the steel rims are as heavy as my car wheels. The stem is like 8.5cm, bars 38cm and cranks 170mm and the seat mast is SHORT. So on a 58cm frame who was was the target buyer and what kind of body did he have

For now I NEED to find a bar. The seller has a longer stem but it would be nice to find a bar/ stem of the era that fit.

Ugly: beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My wife said all I need is a big comb hanging out of my pocket to complete the picture.


EDIT: Notice the Silca pump with Campy head that I had saved for some reason. Looks perfect.

[miguel]

Cinelli 1a with cdm bars in your size and saddle-matchy tape would look classy. Get alloy wheels, stat!

[97CSI]

Nice find. Great that it is in such good condition and cleaned up so well. Am running a 'Paramount' marked Stronglight headset in mine. May look like 400 spokes, but will guess it is only 72.

Also, have a black 42cm bar for a quill stem if that would work for you. $10 plus shipping. PM for details.

[rePhil]

You might run into a snag if and when you replace the headset. From memory the crown race inside diameter is a jis standard which is slightly larger.

[rccardr]

Yep, they are a 27.0 crown race, but any decent LBS can ream that down to 26.4.

Didn't know that the Preludes came with steel wheels that year, be careful if you ride in the rain!

[stephenmarklay]

The wheels may actually be Aluminium after all. They have a profile that looks like a steel rim but they may not be.

I would like to upgrade the rims but I have to keep this project sensible. I may get some 36 hole silver hoops and rebuild with the hubs as they roll fine.

97csi - Thanks so much on the bar. I will pass on the great deal since I want to stay all retro silver on this gem. I am going to try to find a bar/stem combo that works.

I love the look of the seat post with the flutes but I would love it to be longer for more options. If I get it to fit well I will make ask this beast to do a century for the fun of it. I best get a couple of water bottle cages.

Any help advice you guys can offer is greatly appreciated. I am pretty ignorant of the older fitments and systems (flywheels etc) but looking forward to tinkering.

If I get this thing tip top I may sell my newly bought Cyclocross bike as they will fill the same void. Or maybe not :)

[fiamme red]

Bad:I think I counted 400 spokes all in all and the steel rims are as heavy as my car wheels.The Prelude came with alloy rims, not steel.

[Muttleyone]

Good looking 'lude. They should be alloy wheels but still doesn't mean they are the lightest ever built. I think you'll enjoy the bike. Let us know how it works out.
Also, I forgot to post a pic of my wife's Paramount.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/Muttleyone/DSCF0089.jpg
Gotta love those 80's lugged Schwinns.

Mutt

[97CSI]

The wheels may actually be Aluminium after all. They have a profile that looks like a steel rim but they may not be.

I would like to upgrade the rims but I have to keep this project sensible. I may get some 36 hole silver hoops and rebuild with the hubs as they roll fine.

97csi - Thanks so much on the bar. I will pass on the great deal since I want to stay all retro silver on this gem. I am going to try to find a bar/stem combo that works.

I love the look of the seat post with the flutes but I would love it to be longer for more options. If I get it to fit well I will make ask this beast to do a century for the fun of it. I best get a couple of water bottle cages.

Any help advice you guys can offer is greatly appreciated. I am pretty ignorant of the older fitments and systems (flywheels etc) but looking forward to tinkering.

If I get this thing tip top I may sell my newly bought Cyclocross bike as they will fill the same void. Or maybe not :)First things first........ if you haven't done a century on lugged steel, you are definitely in for a treat. Of course, lighter spokes/rims/tires will be a big help after so many hours. For a silver stem & bar, Nitto will have what you want. Unfortunately, not at very 'reasonable' price. However, you do get what you pay for. You might want to make your list of wanted items and post a WTB in the classifieds. Many folks here are 'collectors' and have an amazing amount of nice gear that they will part with to help out.

Muttleyone - nice bike! What year is that? Almost looks like a sloping TT, but am guessing it is simply perspective.

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks 97CSI. Your right own comfort. Just crusing around the block I could tell.

All the attention gets paid to the race geometry bikes but the 72.5/72.5 and the ability to run a larger tire makes this bike very comfy and very very stable. I was goofing off riding no handed with my daughter and it felt like it would just drive itself. Nothing like 95psi and 1.25" tires too!

[Muttleyone]

Muttleyone - nice bike! What year is that? Almost looks like a sloping TT, but am guessing it is simply perspective.

Thanks, It's an '85 non-sloping TT, it's just the camera angle.

Mutt

[BojiBiker]

I didn't think I would see these on the forum! We actually have a couple in our collection.

I bought a new Super Sport in 85 (I think), which came with full Shimano 600, non-indexed. It was my 2nd "decent" bike and I rode it on my first RAGBRAI that year. I converted it to a fixie about 3 years ago.

I bought my wife a new Tempo (same paint as rccardr's) in 86 or 87, which came with the indexed 105 and Bio-Pace rings. We converted it to flat bar with thumb shifters and have 35's on it for "country" rides. We loan it out a lot to people who want to start biking. Amazingly enough, it's also done several triathalons.

I love 97CSI's Paramount. That's what I was aspiring to...

Good memories of lots of miles!

[stephenmarklay]

I am over the top. I used a dremel and polish on the cranks and other shiny bits at lunch today :)

[97CSI]

I love 97CSI's Paramount. That's what I was aspiring to...
Good memories of lots of miles!Thanks. Have decided the wheel decals have to go. All black rims by tomorrow.

I am over the top. I used a dremel and polish on the cranks and other shiny bits at lunch today :)I don't understand. Seems perfectly normal to me.

[stephenmarklay]

I have a feeling I am going to be over budget on this. I rode about 10 miles round trip to the park to meet up with the wife and kids.

It made me realize now much fun riding a bike is. I had forgotten as when I ride it is always with "training" in mind. I sold my race bike but I have to admit I did an hour on the rollers with my cross bike this morning.

I rode the "Lude" with shorts, t-shirt, flip flops and a smile. Ill fitting feet slipping legs tired fun :)

Now I am going to have to get that Nitto Bar/Stem darn it. I also realized I want some nice dual sided casual pedals. Oh and that seat post. Hmm new levers would be nice http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-SCR-5-Brake-Levers/dp/B000ZTKSVC with gum color.

[Muttleyone]

I have a feeling I am going to be over budget on this. I rode about 10 miles round trip to the park to meet up with the wife and kids.

It made me realize now much fun riding a bike is. I had forgotten as when I ride it is always with "training" in mind. I sold my race bike but I have to admit I did an hour on the rollers with my cross bike this morning.

I rode the "Lude" with shorts, t-shirt, flip flops and a smile. Ill fitting feet slipping legs tired fun :)

Now I am going to have to get that Nitto Bar/Stem darn it. I also realized I want some nice dual sided casual pedals. Oh and that seat post. Hmm Aero levers would be nice....


LOL, good, it's money well spent. Everyone needs a bike to ride just for fun.

Mutt

[jr59]

Couldn't agree with Mutt more.

There is nothing wrong with having a bike that you ride for fun!

I hope you keep this bike as close to original as possible.
Make it work for you, but keep it Simple.

:beer:

[stephenmarklay]

I am going to try and keep it as close as possible. The fit will require to make some changes though. I think the nitto stuff will look nice. I think the levers would look nice but do stray a bit. A lot more comfy I bet. I love the fluted post but I have to have longer. No LOOK pedals on this bike though. I like the MKS rat traps and they will look perfect.

[Jason E]

The prelude was my first decent bike. I loved it. First bike I raced. I rode it from upstate NY to Maine on the summer of '89, between 9th and 10th grade.

I have to go scan a picture.

[stephenmarklay]

Awesome. Please do scan the picture.

[stephenmarklay]

I have decided to do a bit more on this bike. Man I really love to just ride a bike in shorts, sneakers and a t-shirt. I went to the store and picked up milk and such. Great fun.

So I am going to make this bike right. A nice wheelset is in the works. A nitto pearl is in the mail and I am deciding on a bar. Maybe a Nitto B115 but I like the 178 better but more $. I will get a leather saddle as well.

I pick up a new longer post tomorrow I ordered from the LBS. I need that. Cheap one but not a huge amount of options for the size and look. I have some nice MKS pedals on the way too.

My plan is to keep riding this bike and when I find a bike I love I will pick that up and swap over the new stuff.

I am going to do a cassette hub with 7 speed to work with this bike. I don't want to spend big $ on a freewheel setup and they not use it later.

I sure am having fun with this new ride.

[jr59]

And that is why we do this!


:beer: :banana:

[T.J.]

Tenax Schwinns are excellent riders, especially when updated with a modern drivertrain & decent wheels and tires. My 21.5 pound '87 Tempo with 105, which is almost as fast and every bit as reliable as my Corsa Extra:

http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/rccardr/87%20Schwinn%20Tempo%209%20speed/New87Temporightsidedoor.jpg


For the record: I have been looking for one of these bikes in this color scheme!!!! 56-58cm. Any help in the search is appreciated

[97CSI]

Who knows? You may find that you love the Prelude. I've had my Paramount for 24 years and have probably had 2-dozen other bikes, as well. But the Paramount is still here and the one I ride the most, regardless. I've even removed the groups a couple of times and hung it on a hook in the basement. But never lasts a full season. Simply has that 'magic'. At least for me. Here's what it looks like after removing all those red and white stickers from the rims. Much better. Am sure it rides better/faster, too :rolleyes: (will find out in the morning).

[stephenmarklay]

Who knows. I certainly will not kick it to the curb unless something makes me smile more. If I had one bike I might swap it for one with a standard road geometry. But them it might not be so fun who knows.

[rccardr]

TJ, you need to either clean out your PM box or send me an e-mail at rccardr AT cox DOT net. I have an original '87 in storage.

Actually, I have 5 of them, but only one in that size and color scheme.

[T.J.]

TJ, you need to either clean out your PM box or send me an e-mail at rccardr AT cox DOT net. I have an original '87 in storage.

Actually, I have 5 of them, but only one in that size and color scheme.


Pm box cleared

[97CSI]

rccardr - do you have a 54 or 53 you would be interested in parting with?

[the night owl]

Who knows? You may find that you love the Prelude. I've had my Paramount for 24 years and have probably had 2-dozen other bikes, as well. But the Paramount is still here and the one I ride the most, regardless. I've even removed the groups a couple of times and hung it on a hook in the basement. But never lasts a full season. Simply has that 'magic'. At least for me. Here's what it looks like after removing all those red and white stickers from the rims. Much better. Am sure it rides better/faster, too :rolleyes: (will find out in the morning).


I've had my Paramount for 17 years; it's a 94 year model (manufactured summer 93) Reynolds 753 OS made in Waterford. I'd have a hard time deciding whether the Paramount or my 84 Columbus SP Nova Special is my favorite bike. I've done metrics on both (bone spurs in my neck make a full century a bad idea) and there is nothing like lugged steel for a longer ride. My newer bikes are lighted and stiffer but they can't match the ride.

[97CSI]

Hmmmmm............... seem to be missing a picture of your Paramount. We need to start an 'official steel Schwinn picture thread'.

[the night owl]

Hmmmmm............... seem to be missing a picture of your Paramount. We need to start an 'official steel Schwinn picture thread'.
OK, I promise to take pictures of my Serotta and Paramount within the next week and get them posted.

[wtex]

I second, or third this, would love to see everyone's Schwinns. Hopefully JVP will post, his is a beaut.

[Keith A]

There are a number of Schwinns that have been posted in the image gallery and here's a really nice one...
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=93455

[97CSI]

Small world. When I sent my '87 back to Waterford in 1998 to be repainted, I first picked the neon yellow. When the bike got back to me (through my local dealer) the paint was still soft as was a 2-part paint and they had not put in enough of the hardener. When we took it out of the box we left finger prints in the paint. So, back to Waterford. In the meantime, they came out with the 'flade' paint scheme I have now. The second time (no questions asked) they got it right and has been an excellent and very durable finish. Other than the additional month of shipping/wait time, they did a great job.

[stephenmarklay]

The Lude has seen a few improvements. I picked up a seat post that allows me to ride at a proper height. New found power is cool with a gallon of milk and and stuff in my messenger bag :)

Nitto Pearl in a 110cm came today. Pretty. I bought a 26 clamp for versatility so I have to get a bar that fits it and me.

Pretty MKS pedals. Nice. King cages round out the improvements. I am sporting an Arione too but I would like a leather Saddle soon.


So on deck is a bar and some sort of better wheel solution. My wheels are holding true but I have not love for them and do worry about my weight with loads on them.


I need to get the rear derailleur sorted as it wants to drop down a gear when I stand. I have not even played with it but I wonder if I have a spring issue. Not schooled with the friction stuff but I will figure it out.

Very happy with the bike.

I road it with my son and his Schwinn Trike roadster to the public pool today. It was fun. Never did that on my race bike!

[stephenmarklay]

For the record: I have been looking for one of these bikes in this color scheme!!!! 56-58cm. Any help in the search is appreciated

Anyone have one of these to measure. The I can't find measurements beyond say 23" etc. My Prelude has a 57cm tt on 23" but I think the Tempo might be only 56tt on 23". That seems backwards as far as the models are concerned so can someone check that?

[brockd15]

I need to get the rear derailleur sorted as it wants to drop down a gear when I stand. I have not even played with it but I wonder if I have a spring issue. Not schooled with the friction stuff but I will figure it out.

You might check to be sure that you're DT shifter is tight enough. I had the same thing happening on my '83 Voyageur SP and tightening up the shifter took care of it.

Here are my Schwinns:

1987 Prelude
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww54/brockd15/Bikes/1987%20Schwinn%20Prelude/IMG_3166.jpg

1987 Prologue
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww54/brockd15/Bikes/1987%20Schwinn%20Prologue/IMG_0831.jpg

1983 Voyageur SP
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww54/brockd15/Bikes/1983%20Schwinn%20Voyageur/IMG_3197.jpg

1989 Le Tour
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww54/brockd15/Bikes/1989%20Schwinn%20Le%20Tour/IMG_3179.jpg

[rccardr]

That's a mighty small granny on the half step gearing on that Voyageur.

Back in the day, we called those "wall climbers".

[stephenmarklay]

Nice collection. I think I will get a few more :). Btw your le tour looks le-git!

I went through my drivetrain today. I have a pretty worn chain. I will pick a new one up tomorrow. The chainrings do not look hooked and I have no shifting issues in the front. However the back is not shift well. The old style cogs are tall and do not looked worn so I am hoping the new chain will solve the issue. It does seem to skip (and downshift) when I stand. I kind of wonder if in addition to the worn chain, the wheel is flexing enough to make the chain drop down.

Baby steps. No big deal since it will see some wheels and a 7 speed cog in the rear sooner rather than later.

[stephenmarklay]

New chain today. Better shifting. Quieter too. I tightened down the DT lever and things are looking up.

First real adventure today. Rode to work about 12 or so miles. Got a flat. Crap forgot my pump. Have a tube whew. WTH is that water spewing out of the air pump at the gas station? Now that is novel. No air from the water spout though. Ride with air water mix. Get dry air up the road. Few miles. Shorts and tennis shoes and dang fun.

[Keith A]

Thanks for the ongoing updates...I've been enjoying your adventure with the Prelude.

[chuckroast]

Staying up with this thread has got me looking on the local Craigslist!

[stephenmarklay]

Chuckroast, the saying goes: A good bike is the one you ride. I am finding that being able to ride in shorts and tennis shoes is great for a change. It is nice not to have to wear your "kit" just to throw a leg over.

I commuted on a bike some years ago and riding today brought back some good memories. The Schwinn is plenty up to the task and starting to get dialed in. I am glad I kept my messenger bag from college. It is coming in handy now!

Confirmed that shifting is much better with a new chain. Once I get some new bars on it I will snap a picture.

[the night owl]

This is my 1994 Paramount OS built of Reynolds 753 OS tubes. The fork blades are supposedly 531. It is a 94 year model, built in the summer of 93 and is one of the last Paramounts built at Waterford. Richard Schwinn estimates that between 250 and 500 of these were built. It's currently built with 9 speed Dura-Ace with the execption of the hubs which are 10 speed Dura-Ace and an American Classic seat post.

[the night owl]

Someone needs to help me with why my picture ended up so small and low resolution. I've been trying to post the picture for quite a while and the site kept telling me that the file was to big. I purchased software that allowed me to resize the picture, but by the time I got it down to something that the site would except, you can barely tell that it's a bicycle. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the picture of my Paramount is really pretty good, believe it or not.

[Keith A]

the night owl -- I think we need a better picture :)

[stephenmarklay]

I am not sure but if you email me the pic I will post it. Pm me if you want me to.

Someone needs to help me with why my picture ended up so small and low resolution. I've been trying to post the picture for quite a while and the site kept telling me that the file was to big. I purchased software that allowed me to resize the picture, but by the time I got it down to something that the site would except, you can barely tell that it's a bicycle. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the picture of my Paramount is really pretty good, believe it or not.

[the night owl]

Actually the picture was pretty good until I did all of the stuff required to get it on the website. Obviously some others know something I don't because their pictures are much larger and clearer. The picture was taken with my 5 megapixel I phone and it really did start out as a reasonably good picture. Honest.

[the night owl]

Stephen, the pm is on the way. Thanks.

In addition to Stephen giving me a fish (i.e. by posting my picture), I would also appreciate someone directing me to some fishing lesson (i.e. how to post on this website).

Thanks again.

Somebody named Brenda emailed me and told me that if I emailed her, she would tell me all about herself. I was thinking about emailing her to ask if she could help me with how to post pictures on the Serotta website.

[stephenmarklay]

Ok Ted here is a little bigger version of the picture. I love the colors on this bike BTW.

[the night owl]

Stephen, Thanks again for doing the picture. I may have figured out my posting problem; we'll see when I post pictures of my nova special.

I've always loved the color of this bicycle. An interesting tid bit is that I paid $160 for the frame, a mavic bottom bracket and the American Classic seatpost. The guy who owns the bike shop I deal with, bought the frame, built it up and decided after two rides that he didn't like it. (He was hooked on Klein's at the time and couldn't stand anything that wasn't ultra-stiff). He sold the Paramount to me for the price of the frame (Schwinn bankruptcy closeout) and gave me the BB and post.