Horner . . .

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-to-start-usa-pro-cycling-challenge

Best of luck to him. I just hope he doesn't crash and hit his head again. I still can't comprehend the race doctor letting him get back on his bike to ride to the finish. What the HELL were they thinking?

Post concussion syndrome can be unpredictable and involve a number of symptoms you might not immediately connect with the original injury. I hope they're watching him really close . . .

BBD

[tele]

I dont remember concussions being "diagnosed" from bike crashes in races. It seems to me that the emphasis is to get back on the bike as quickly as possible regardless if you are woozy. Maybe this year there was a greater recognition of concussions like in football etc........

As far as Horner goes, caught the nightly replay of yesterdays stage and they showed Horner at the end of the stage where he crashed and being told he finished the stage, as he is going into the ambulance, and he had no idea what anyone was talking about. Pretty scary.

[97CSI]

Really too bad for him. This was likely his last chance at a TdF podium. Best of luck on his recovery and continued good fortune.

[Ray]

Really too bad for him. This was likely his last chance at a TdF podium. Best of luck on his recovery and continued good fortune.
I agree with everything said about how this was handled. It seems pretty obvious if a guy doesn't know where he is that he shouldn't be back on his bike and finishing the stage - the footage of him right after the stage is some of the scarier stuff I've seen.

And I feel bad for him missing out on what was surely one of his last, if not THE last, chances to ride the Tour.

But the PODIUM?? Really? Does anyone honestly think Horner had a chance to be on the podium in this race, or even top five? Who was he gonna displace? I just don't see it. I guess many things are possible - I'd have never picked Voekler for a top 5 finish and I'd bet serious money it never happens again (he'll never be allowed the amount of rope he's had in the past to go off on breakaways now that he's shown how well he can push himself to hang in the mountains). I've never seen Horner hang all the way to the end on the big mountain stages with the best climbers. He's a fine rider, could perhaps win a stage at some point, but I honestly think a podium finish is just dreaming.

-Ray

[Climb01742]

my guess is that chris hears his career clocking ticking. i hope luck is one his side and in whatever races he does this year, he stays safely vertical.

[dekindy]

As I have said before, wasn't he involved in a large crash and it was physically impossible for the race doctor to examine every injured rider? Maybe he would not have been allowed to continue if only a few riders had crashed and he had been examined.

[Ray]

As I have said before, wasn't he involved in a large crash and it was physically impossible for the race doctor to examine every injured rider? Maybe he would not have been allowed to continue if only a few riders had crashed and he had been examined.
Yeah, but he was riding along after the crash, holding onto the race doctor's CAR, holding some level of conversation with the medical folks, for quite a while. Its hard for me to believe he was making very much more sense there than he was laying on the stretcher at the end of the race! And he doesn't remember ANY of that, until he woke up the next day in the hospital, right? I find it a bit hard to believe that he was being coherent enough while riding along hanging on to the medical car for them to have let him continue to the end of the stage. I obviously don't know all the facts, and maybe he was reciting the Gettysburg Address with perfect diction, but its kind of hard to imagine...

-Ray

[CunegoFan]

Has enough time passed to make it safe for him to race?

[Ray]

Has enough time passed to make it safe for him to race?
I don't think anyone here could possibly know that. I just hope (and assume) that the docs who are treating him now are better able to assess that than the ones who gave him the OK to finish that stage!

-Ray

[biker72]

But the PODIUM?? Really? Does anyone honestly think Horner had a chance to be on the podium in this race, or even top five? Who was he gonna displace? I just don't see it. -Ray
At the start of the race I thought Horner would be in the top 5 finishers. He's really been riding well and was doing fairly well before the crash.

That being said, I can't see him displacing any of the top 5 that did finish.

[Ferrous (Fe)]

Hope he kicks ass in Colorado in a few weeks!

[trener1]

We shell see, seems he also hurt his leg.

[regularguy412]

snipped-- the footage of him right after the stage is some of the scarier stuff I've seen.


-Ray
Agreed- truly scary. He only asked the medical staff and the others," Did I finish?' -- He didn't just ask them once, he asked them FOUR TIMES!

Mike in AR:beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . what really amazes me is that he finished the stage without giving any further evidence of being out of it--weaving, wobbling, lack of balance, etc. I just have great difficulty believing that nobody in the medical car had any concerns about his behavior.

BBD

[retrofit]

. . . what really amazes me is that he finished the stage without giving any further evidence of being out of it--weaving, wobbling, lack of balance, etc. I just have great difficulty believing that nobody in the medical car had any concerns about his behavior.

BBD

During the evening broadcast on the same day of the crash Versus stated that the doctor who examined Horner from the car reported that Horner was confused at that time and as a result, assigned a medical vehicle to follow him the rest of the stage. So there were medical concerns, but they let him ride anyway. I think Horner was lucky to finish without further mishap, perhaps due to cycling being an overlearned activity--he was effectively on auto-pilot.

[rice rocket]

I don't think anyone here could possibly know that. I just hope (and assume) that the docs who are treating him now are better able to assess that than the ones who gave him the OK to finish that stage!

-Ray

Perhaps concussions aren't prevalent enough for the UCI/USA Cycling/other sanctioning bodies to raise the standards, but they're certainly not treated as seriously in cycling as they are in hockey or football. All NHL players are forced to take a cognition test before they enter the league (maybe it's each season, I forget), and must be able to repeat those scores before they're allowed to re-enter competitive play. NFL doesn't require it yet (maybe they will w/ the new contract?), but some teams employ similar testing.

If Horner had a couple days of memory loss, I don't think he could be anywhere close to being symptom free. If he falls again, he risks pretty serious life-changing brain injury. But hey, I guess cycling doesn't require as much cognition as full contact sports where you're actively avoiding getting plastered by your opponents.

Also FWIW, I suffered a concussion 6 weeks ago and still can tell I was concussed (and I never lost consciousness or had any memory loss). My mind clearly isn't as sharp, I make lots of typos, I lose my train of thought more often, I get random headaches, and my balance and judgment are certainly impaired. Everyone recovers differently I guess, but 6 months to a year is what I've been told is pretty common recovery time to be fully symptom free. Doesn't mean I'll stay off the bike, but I'm certainly more cautious as re-injuring my already injured brain has some pretty severe consequences.

[CunegoFan]

During the evening broadcast on the same day of the crash Versus stated that the doctor who examined Horner from the car reported that Horner was confused at that time and as a result, assigned a medical vehicle to follow him the rest of the stage. So there were medical concerns, but they let him ride anyway. I think Horner was lucky to finish without further mishap, perhaps due to cycling being an overlearned activity--he was effectively on auto-pilot.

I don't know if it is true, but I read that the doc can advise riders to quit but does not have the power to force riders out of the race. Maybe the doc did all he was allowed to do.

[Ray]

I don't know if it is true, but I read that the doc can advise riders to quit but does not have the power to force riders out of the race. Maybe the doc did all he was allowed to do.
Seems hard to imagine, but if so, they need to give the docs the power to pull someone.

-Ray

[retrofit]

I don't know if it is true, but I read that the doc can advise riders to quit but does not have the power to force riders out of the race. Maybe the doc did all he was allowed to do.

Apparently so.

Here is an article from Cycling News (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pro-cycling-plagued-by-head-injuries) regarding crashes and TBI. The Garmin-Cervelo doctor, Prentice Steffen, is interviewed regarding their policy and protocol regarding head injuries, and I think they're on the right track.

A couple of quotes:
"I think the race doctors should be the ones with the authority to make these decisions," Steffen said, but in his team's case, it is the staff who are tasked with making that difficult call...

The team's policy states, "Even in the absence of obvious injury to the head or damage to the helmet, the rider will then be questioned for signs of confusion, memory loss, loss of conciousness, imbalance, or any other behaviours that indicate the rider is not at his/her normal baseline mental functioning."

...if the rider shows any sign of a significant head injury, the team's policy is to remove the rider from the race immediately.

I hope for the safety of injured riders, as well as the rest of the peloton that other teams adopt a similar assessment protocol and policy.

[fogrider]

years ago and I too could not remember the crash and the aftermath. my helmet was cracked and got a ride from someone and I kept asking what time it was. what first responders ask is what day it was, who is president and other general information. the good thing about cycling is that it is normally not an impact sport.

[dd74]

The fact is, CH suffered a brain injury. Concussion is just another word for it. I think it was 49ers QB, Steve Young, who said the effects last a lifetime.

I can understand how it's hard for an athlete of any caliber to retire after such an injury, but honestly, in CH's case, retirement should be considered.