Need Info--> Litespeed

[FixedNotBroken]

I am not familiar with Litespeed titanium bikes..are they comparable to Moots, Seven, Merlin etc...? I found a Litespeed Ghisallo in my size but i'm not sure if it's very good. Info would be appreciated!

[cloudguy]

The Ghisallo is (was?) their lightest Ti frame. If you're small and light it might be OK, but people have told me its not a good frame for descending (shimmys and what not). I've got a 2006 Sienna and it descends fine, but its heavier.

[FixedNotBroken]

I weigh 170 and I am 5'7. I don't know if I want to risk that at all..i'll just keep looking around.

[rice rocket]

Link to the Ghisallo?

They're a rare breed, they don't make ~800g Ti frames anymore.

[FixedNotBroken]

It's a 2006. It's a local guy selling it and I don't have the link.

[Aaron O]

I haven't ridden one, bit I consider Litespeed a lesser producer than Merlin (pre-Litespeed), Moots or Seven (or Serotta). More production and less refined. I likely have no basis for my opinion, but most folks agree that Merlin went to hell once ABG (who owns Litespeed) bought them.

[FixedNotBroken]

I haven't ridden one, bit I consider Litespeed a lesser producer than Merlin (pre-Litespeed), Moots or Seven (or Serotta). More production and less refined. I likely have no basis for my opinion, but most folks agree that Merlin went to hell once ABG (who owns Litespeed) bought them.

Thanks for the insight!

[Aaron O]

I sure wouldn't mind getting one of those Litespeed produced Merckx AX frames - titanium and Merckx geometry are two great tastes...

[Jeff N.]

The Ghisallo is fine if you're a lightweight. Stay clear otherwise. The frame is/was lighter than most other Ti frames for a given size because of the thinner walled tubes used in it's construction. Again, it's for lighter riders...Clydesdales need not apply. :no: Jeff N.

[dd74]

Just curious, what constitutes a lightweight?

To be honest, after looking at some of the Serotta Ti frames, that's where I'd put my money if I ever go Ti. Moots is another. Seven, I don't think compares in quality.

[Aaron O]

Just curious, what constitutes a lightweight?

To be honest, after looking at some of the Serotta Ti frames, that's where I'd put my money if I ever go Ti. Moots is another. Seven, I don't think compares in quality.

I don't know, Tom Kellog seems to think Seven is good enough for Spectrum - and that makes it good enough for me.

The only Moots product I've used left a foul taste in my mouth - that PITA seatpost.

[dd74]

Now here's a nice Litespeed, except it's called a Basso.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1994-Basso-Gap-Titanium-53cm-c-t-frame-carbon-fork-/220690345992?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item33622b7008

[dd74]

I don't know, Tom Kellog seems to think Seven is good enough for Spectrum - and that makes it good enough for me.

The only Moots product I've used left a foul taste in my mouth - that PITA seatpost.
Side-by-side, I think the welds and overall finishing of either the Serotta or Moots is better than Seven. But hey that's just an opinion.

[firerescuefin]

Side-by-side, I think the welds and overall finishing of either the Serotta or Moots is better than Seven. But hey that's just an opinion.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thebicyclestory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/headtubedetail.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thebicyclestory.com/tag/seven-cycles/&usg=__q9Ik0nMlV9Bm_37dyOV1qfGtZE0=&h=1200&w=1600&sz=438&hl=en&start=18&sig2=dyE72md_cPPVm53rTgzrNg&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=X3esf_JzaExoNM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dseven%2Bbike%2Bwelds%26um%3D1%26hl%3D en%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1659%26bih%3D842%26rlz%3D1R2GG LL_enUS372%26tbm%3Disch&ei=vZwrToSsFMLZgQef38mHCw


Agreed....hard to look at ;) ....looks OK to me.

[Aaron O]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thebicyclestory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/headtubedetail.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thebicyclestory.com/tag/seven-cycles/&usg=__q9Ik0nMlV9Bm_37dyOV1qfGtZE0=&h=1200&w=1600&sz=438&hl=en&start=18&sig2=dyE72md_cPPVm53rTgzrNg&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=X3esf_JzaExoNM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dseven%2Bbike%2Bwelds%26um%3D1%26hl%3D en%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1659%26bih%3D842%26rlz%3D1R2GG LL_enUS372%26tbm%3Disch&ei=vZwrToSsFMLZgQef38mHCw


Agreed....hard to look at ;) ....looks OK to me.

+1 - I'd buy a Seven over a Moots personally.

I really like what I've seen from Passoni. A member here has one that is just remarkable - smoother welds than even my pre-ABG Merlin.

[buldogge]

My 2000 Sampson Z7 is Litespeed built and rides very nice. It has shaped TT and DT...it is very similar to the Litespeed Palmares, minus the seatstays. Not sure if 2000 is the end or post Lynskey though.

I think with Litespeed, and their myriad of different models, there is a wide range of "quality" present.

-Mark in St. Louis

[Jeff N.]

Just curious, what constitutes a lightweight?

To be honest, after looking at some of the Serotta Ti frames, that's where I'd put my money if I ever go Ti. Moots is another. Seven, I don't think compares in quality.
That goes to show you the variation of opinion. I personally think that Seven Cycles Ti frames, regardless of the model, exhibit the highest quality titanium and finish, the finest welds (second only to Moots), the most unique styling (with those crazy-beautiful curved stays) more options-at-no-extra-charge, and better customer service (a REAL voice answers the phone within two rings! No being sent up an endless tree!) than any other bigboy Ti frame manufacturers out there. I'm betting T. Kellogg agrees. I'm not a big fan of their sizing process, however. But if you know your numbers going in, I don't think you can go wrong with 7. Jeff

[oldpotatoe]

I don't know, Tom Kellog seems to think Seven is good enough for Spectrum - and that makes it good enough for me.

The only Moots product I've used left a foul taste in my mouth - that PITA seatpost.

New seatpost..old one is adios.

http://moots.myshopify.com/collections/components/products/moots-layback-cinch-post

[sbparker31]

I think quality depends on the era. I have a 98 litespeend obed mountain bike, hand made and signed by David Lynskey. It is a great bike. I have compared it side by side with Moots and Serotta products and it is just as good. Welds are art. This bike was made before litespeed ramped up production. As for the more recent production years I do think you are getting a mass market bike. The key to Ti bikes is the source of the tubes. US Ti is preferred. Many newer bikes have Chinese source Ti which is of variable quality. There is also Russian Ti which is supposedly very high quality but I have no experience with it

[Jeff N.]

I think quality depends on the era. I have a 98 litespeend obed mountain bike, hand made and signed by David Lynskey. It is a great bike. I have compared it side by side with Moots and Serotta products and it is just as good. Welds are art. This bike was made before litespeed ramped up production. As for the more recent production years I do think you are getting a mass market bike. The key to Ti bikes is the source of the tubes. US Ti is preferred. Many newer bikes have Chinese source Ti which is of variable quality. There is also Russian Ti which is supposedly very high quality but I have no experience with it
Just don't buy a bike made up of all three or the tubes might go to war and your bike will destroy itself!!! :eek: Jeff N.

[sbparker31]

Just don't buy a bike made up of all three or the tubes might go to war and your bike will destroy itself!!! :eek: Jeff N.
Actually the US tubes will complain that the Chinese tubes abuse their worker and the environment. The Russian tubes will quietly hack your computer.

[djg21]

I haven't ridden one, bit I consider Litespeed a lesser producer than Merlin (pre-Litespeed), Moots or Seven (or Serotta). More production and less refined. I likely have no basis for my opinion, but most folks agree that Merlin went to hell once ABG (who owns Litespeed) bought them.

In 2006 Litespeed and Merlin both were owned by American Bicycle Group.

Older litespeed bikes were top notch. I've owned Merlins (pre ABG) and Litespeeds (Pre ABG), and now a Lynskey (The Lynskeys founded and owned Litespeed and David Lynskey designed many of the Litespeeds). My Litespeeds were far superior to my Merlin. Litespeed made a fine bike. My understanding is that the brand now is owned by CompetitiveCyclist.com.

The Ghisallo might not be the one you should look for. Maybe look for a Sienna which is a better all around frame. Or a Vortex. You might also look into the Lynskey frames, which are awesome bikes too.

All the bikes you are talking about are good bikes.

[RFC]

I have ridden a number of Ti bikes and own three Lynskey era Litespeeds -- 1994 Catalyst, 1998 Ultimate, and 2000 Appalachian. Litespeeds from that period are second to none. I also have a 2005 Quintano Roo Santo that is a rocket.

[FixedNotBroken]

Is a 2005 Merli extralight good then?

[Aaron O]

In 2006 Litespeed and Merlin both were owned by American Bicycle Group.

Older litespeed bikes were top notch. I've owned Merlins (pre ABG) and Litespeeds (Pre ABG), and now a Lynskey (The Lynskeys founded and owned Litespeed and David Lynskey designed many of the Litespeeds). My Litespeeds were far superior to my Merlin. Litespeed made a fine bike. My understanding is that the brand now is owned by CompetitiveCyclist.com.

The Ghisallo might not be the one you should look for. Maybe look for a Sienna which is a better all around frame. Or a Vortex. You might also look into the Lynskey frames, which are awesome bikes too.

All the bikes you are talking about are good bikes.

I firmly agree with this statement. I'm also a long way from convinced that my preferences have much objective validity. I do think part of why I love my Merlin so much has something to do with TK's design.

[firerescuefin]

Is a 2005 Merli extralight good then?


Note...that although in 06 ABG was running Merlin into the ground, they still were using top notch materials, TK's Geometry, great welders....and were still building TK's Spectrums....so the company may have been going in the tank, but to discount those bikes as not being well made (other than some of their ti/carbon mix offerings which suffered from bonding issues between the two materials) would be a mistake.

[Jeff N.]

Is a 2005 Merli extralight good then?
Their best year, IMO. Jeff N.

[jr59]

Is a 2005 Merli extralight good then?

VERY GOOD

[jr59]

Also,

I've rode a early year Merlin for MANY miles and never had one problem with it, besides normal wear to the componets. It rode great and was all in all a very fine bike.
I sold it when I broke my back. I was told I would never be able to ride again and out the door the bikes went.

Fast forward to present day; I can ride again, so I went looking for a Ti bike. Merlin was getting KILLED for their after sale service, so custom it was.

First place Serotta, nope no dealers in my area. I would have to go 450 miles to a dealer. SORRY. Then a friend in the bike bussiness said why don't I like Spectrum? Who? So I found TK and talked to him about a bike. I also talked to moots, seven, IF, Erickson, and dean.
To me, it came down to erickson and Spectrum. All were good companies, and helpful.

I felt better with TK designing my bike because of my old Merlin.

I just got it a month ago, If anyone is welding smoother welds than this....
It looks smooth, I mean no welds whatsoever. It could very well be steel.

The extra light that you ask about is a GREAT bike! Sorry for the long winded story!
BTW; My bike is in the show your Ti bikes thread. I don't know how to repost the pics.

[avalonracing]

Note...that although in 06 ABG was running Merlin into the ground, they still were using top notch materials, TK's Geometry, great welders....and were still building TK's Spectrums....


No doubt. My Merlin Works CR, designed my TK rocks! If anything ever happens to it I will probably ask Mr. Kellogg to have a Spectrum built for me that is exactly the same. (Well not exactly as I want a slightly less sloping TT and .5º steeper STA... But I'll want to to ride exactly the same way! :beer: )

[CunegoFan]

The only Moots product I've used left a foul taste in my mouth - that PITA seatpost.
LOL. I have one of those seatposts. I plan to remove the saddle by hacksawing the saddle rails when the saddle eventually dies. The post looks trick, though.

[zap]

Litespeed...........meh.

I have never seen so many broken frames from one manufacturer including my '95 built frame.

Serotta & Moots are superior ti manufacturers and worth whatever the used market dictates. Litespeed frames have little or no value imnsho.

[dekindy]

2006 vintage Ultimate for a 200 lb rider?

[bheight1]

Litespeed...........meh.

I have never seen so many broken frames from one manufacturer including my '95 built frame.

Serotta & Moots are superior ti manufacturers and worth whatever the used market dictates. Litespeed frames have little or no value imnsho.


Merlin always, as far as I could remember, used 3-2.5 tubing and early Lightspeeds were 6-4 tubing.

[tuxbailey]

Their best year, IMO. Jeff N.

This post gave a warm and fuzzy feeling as I have a 2005 :)

Based on what I read, the pre-ABG Merlins (up to 2000 I think) were considered the best as the brand was somewhat tarnished after ABG acquired them. I didn't know that they are still being held with high regards.

[Ken Robb]

The Litespeed frames were offered in both kinds of ti. The 3 series frames were less expensive than the 6 series frames which were their premium products.

[djg21]

Merlin always, as far as I could remember, used 3-2.5 tubing and early Lightspeeds were 6-4 tubing.


Litespeed used both.

My recollection is that Catalysts, Classics, Ultimates were 3-2.5. Siennas definitely were 3-2.5, and Vortexs definitely were 6-4. Don't recall Palmares, but I think old product brocures are available on Litespeed's website.

[CunegoFan]

I think Litespeed and Merlin really damaged the value of their brands when they would blow out their frames for super cheap prices at the end of every year. Every fall Colorado Cyclist and Excel Sports would sell the excess production for jaw dropping prices. That was deadly for what were supposed to be premium brands. Who wants to feel like a chump who paid double what the next guy did?

[Ken Robb]

I think Litespeed and Merlin really damaged the value of their brands when they would blow out their frames for super cheap prices at the end of every year. Every fall Colorado Cyclist and Excel Sports would sell the excess production for jaw dropping prices. That was deadly for what were supposed to be premium brands. Who wants to feel like a chump who paid double what the next guy did?

True, and how would you like to be a dealer with frames in stock that you had paid more for wholesale than the blow-out prices offered by other dealers on their year-end sales?

I also think the Litespeed venture into aluminum frames detracted from their reputation. I think lots of folks thought Litespeed= titanium frames, period.

[Aaron O]

I think Litespeed and Merlin really damaged the value of their brands when they would blow out their frames for super cheap prices at the end of every year. Every fall Colorado Cyclist and Excel Sports would sell the excess production for jaw dropping prices. That was deadly for what were supposed to be premium brands. Who wants to feel like a chump who paid double what the next guy did?

+1 - Apples never really go on sale, at least not substantial ones.

[bheight1]

The Litespeed frames were offered in both kinds of ti. The 3 series frames were less expensive than the 6 series frames which were their premium products.

My point which I didn't make very well in one sentence reply was in reference to the snipped quote that the numerous frame failures someone posted I assume were of the models using 6-4 ti which were seamed tubing. And I say that because the workmanship of Litespeeds was always top notch IMO--others who re-badged their frames/contracted must have felt same. 6-4 ti, the stronger gauge was always used in dropouts, including Merlin.

As a an owner of a Cambridge-built Merlin, which I still ride, I was dismayed when Merlin attempted to enter carbon market--and moved away from its roots.

[zap]

Failures including my frame were 3/2.5.

My frame failed at the drive side chainstay bullet cap. Pealed about as fast as newspaper-I was lucky I didn't crash. The last bit actually broke as it lay in the back of our wagon during a 6 mile drive to a buddies house so I could remove parts. Other Litespeed frame failures were close to bb weld zones.

These were all mid-90ish frames.

[FixedNotBroken]

Locally there is a Merlin Compact 2.5/3 that's in my perfect size. It has older Dura-Ace (I believe 7700), Chris King wheels, and a Chris King headset..the guy is asking $2,000. What do you guys think?

[FixedNotBroken]

Is this Merlin nice? the compact 2.5/3? I am not super familiar with these.

[FixedNotBroken]

Here's a picture of the bike..I haven't seen a Merlin with a frame like this. It has a full 7800 build, king wheels, K-force bars, EC90 post and it look pretty nice.

[FlashUNC]

I know back in the late 90's I thought they made some of the nicest looking bikes around, and I was in serious bike lust over their Tuscany and Classic models.

But as others have mentioned, that was all before the buyout.

[Dlevy05]

Okay, there's been a lot of messages thrown around here, but I think we can all conclude that the 1999 (and earlier) Litespeeds were of a higher quality and attention to detail than the later ones.

I can't speak for the Ghisallo, but I can say that Litespeed was a top manufacturer of titanium frames. The Tuscany was and still is an amazing bike, for what it is.

Litespeed was probably the largest producer of ti frames, and people wouldn't have bought so many if they weren't worth the money.

Additionally, they were very cutting edge. At the time Litespeed pioneered the Vortex, (before the buyout) it was the only frame from any ti manufacturer to be fully constructed of 6/4 titanium, according to their brochure. That's a huge feat!

For some reason, and maybe it's welds compared to Serotta's (quality will always be higher on smaller volume ventures), maybe it's just falling in a slightly lower price bracket, or maybe it's the larger production numbers (especially after the buyout), or maybe it's all the new aluminium and carbon bikes that the American Bicycle Group is trying to dominate the market with,.... Litespeed's name has been tainted. It's a shame, because they made great bikes at one point in time, and today, David Lynskey makes great bikes, too.

I for one, would recommend a pre 2000 Litespeed to anyone I meet. They're great bikes, and serve their purpose well. Just like Serottas, Merlins, and Moots.

[jerome]

Litespeed are made with rolled tubes tubes made of ti sheets metal roll and welded or stamped half shell welded together.
The weld is less elastic than the metal itself so the bike end up less lively less omogenous.
Seven, Serotta, Moots, IF are using mandrel made tubes more expensive but with linear mechanical properties.

Next the assembly and frame alignment is better on a Moots than it is on a Litespeed.
Litespeed tag, align, weld, align, machine.
Moots or any other tag - verify - align - weld a bit - verify - correct with more welding and so on. The machining is done before welding. It is a much longer process but the bike end up as a great tool more telepatic.
The quality of the weld good enought everywhere not a criterion for me at this level.
Also you will have much more machining and tubes shaping on a Serotta and a Moots than on a Seven and nothing on a Litespeed.

Serootta and Moots are the best for me now. Moots is more small production but the Legend Ti SE is wonderful.
For MTB I will go Moots or Seven more in their DNA.

[jerome]

I know back in the late 90's I thought they made some of the nicest looking bikes around, and I was in serious bike lust over their Tuscany and Classic models.

But as others have mentioned, that was all before the buyout.

yes a while ago they were great now ... hummmm more reserved when you have the choice why not a Serotta Seven or Moot instead, they have more soul too.