RECYCLED CARBONE Bikes

[Smiley]

Bringing up this topic cause I have seen so many older quill style steel bikes being given a new life with new ownership, wondering when sombody will pull out an old Trek 5200 or something similar and ride it. I guess carbon does not have infinte life.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=93873

[Charles M]

No... but bitching about carbon seems to... ;)

[rice rocket]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5528195913_cfe335017e_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5539634310_0814ae0eaf_b.jpg

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=84322

Thought it was a pretty neat restoration/build.

[duke]

Learning how to spell carbon would be a starting point.
duke

[martinrjensen]

Sold a Trek 5500 a couple years ago. Don't know why, it was a great riding bike.

[ericspin]

If I had to put myself in a box I would say that I am a steel guy. That being said I can share that one of the most impressive first pedal turns I ever had was a Trek 5900 SL. Back in the day. If it had a taller headtube or I had a more flexible back then I bet I would have kept it. I know it's the motor motor not the bike but it was the fastest bike I ever rode.

[firerescuefin]

Bringing up this topic cause I have seen so many older quill style steel bikes being given a new life with new ownership, wondering when sombody will pull out an old Trek 5200 or something similar and ride it. I guess carbon does not have infinte life.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=93873


Not a lot of romanticism tied to a 5200...and there's the rub.

[oldpotatoe]

Learning how to spell carbon would be a starting point.
duke

French carbon..carbone..

[Smiley]

French carbon..carbone..


Thank u oldpotatoe for those that think language revolves around only english :)

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

French carbon..carbone..
Well played.

[wooly]

Learning how to spell carbon would be a starting point.
duke
Yeah - don't think this was necessary. Especially to a great guy like Smiley. Weak.

[san]

the old school trek with lightweight wheels look good! i currently have a older model caad4 i want to build. it's not carbon but i think it'll fit into the same criteria.

[zap]

My Look 196 from '94 will get another upgrade and plan on doing some TT next year.

Not the latest aero bike but still cool when set up right.

[jvp]

A little OT, but has anyone seen, or experienced first hand, examples of carbon/glue/bonded/lugged frames failing? Or alum./bonded/lugged frames failing for that matter. I hear of that potential but I can't recall any examples.

[Scott Shire]

My Look 196 from '94 will get another upgrade and plan on doing some TT next year.

Not the latest aero bike but still cool when set up right.

Still cool?!?

It's a 196 for goodness sake. Tres balleur!

[130R]

Learning how to spell carbon would be a starting point.
duke


:confused:

[AngryScientist]

i would think it would be a confidence thing over probably reality.

if i made a "basement find" of a much older carbon bike, i dont know that i would be able to ride it confidently, not knowing its history the way you would be able to jump on an older steel bike, especially bombing a descent at 40mph.

[R2D2]

A little OT, but has anyone seen, or experienced first hand, examples of carbon/glue/bonded/lugged frames failing? Or alum./bonded/lugged frames failing for that matter. I hear of that potential but I can't recall any examples.

Plenty fo early examples. Vitus and Look/TVT were famous for failing in hot climates.

[nahtnoj]

i would think it would be a confidence thing over probably reality.

if i made a "basement find" of a much older carbon bike, i dont know that i would be able to ride it confidently, not knowing its history the way you would be able to jump on an older steel bike, especially bombing a descent at 40mph.

Is this about the inherent properties of the frame or your perception of the material?

[Pete Serotta]

adhesives in very hot weather were not mature than as it is now.

Steel is steel but carbon has developed and become better and more trouble free.

One thing to really watch, "of late: is the first very light ones...they can be fragile.

Yeah HSG is excellent -- - bet you thought you would never hear me say that. :D :D PETE


Is this about the inherent properties of the frame or your perception of the material?

[Pete Serotta]

Learning how to spell carbon would be a starting point.
duke
:eek: I assume you were making a "funny" and it did not come across like that. A apology to Smiley would work if that was the case. :beer:

[zap]

i would think it would be a confidence thing over probably reality.

if i made a "basement find" of a much older carbon bike, i dont know that i would be able to ride it confidently, not knowing its history the way you would be able to jump on an older steel bike, especially bombing a descent at 40mph.

Italian big name steel frames made in the 90's and earlier did not have a sterling reputation. Build quality on par with cheap chinese garden furniture.

Crap comes in all sorts of materials.

[EDS]

:eek: I assume you were making a "funny" and it did not come across like that. A apology to Smiley would work if that was the case. :beer:

I don't see why Duke needs to apologize. It is easy to read Smiley's original post as another baseless rant about carbon, which would deserve heckling.

[Smiley]

I don't see why Duke needs to apologize. It is easy to read Smiley's original post as another baseless rant about carbon, which would deserve heckling.

Hey EDS, I am a big boy and dont need an apology BUT if u actually read my post it refered to a guy that built up and old Pinno and was going out to ride it, TICKLED TO DEATH ABOUT THE PROSPECTS OF IT TOO, quil stem and set up and all. My post was NOT bashing carbon but wondering if folks would feel the same way about building up a +10 year old carbone frame (yeah it's french and yeah its a dig, I did not say plastic did I) any way I know way too many folks that dont have that intention. Why for may reasons some being the advancement in Technology and some being the fact that some of this stuff is not HIGH zoot any more.
Sell alot of ROUND tube Ti and Steel bikes for that simple reason, technology wont make it yesterdays news. Anyway I guess u needed my crib notes about my post:)

BTW I guess my total post count here means I have been around for awhile so chill as most that know me know that I was just not trying to stir it up.

[EDS]

Hey EDS, I am a big boy and dont need an apology BUT if u actually read my post it refered to a guy that built up and old Pinno and was going out to ride it, TICKLED TO DEATH ABOUT THE PROSPECTS OF IT TOO, quil stem and set up and all. My post was NOT bashing carbon but wondering if folks would feel the same way about building up a +10 year old carbone frame (yeah it's french and yeah its a dig, I did not say plastic did I) any way I know way too many folks that dont have that intention. Why for may reasons some being the advancement in Technology and some being the fact that some of this stuff is not HIGH zoot any more.
Sell alot of ROUND tube Ti and Steel bikes for that simple reason, technology wont make it yesterdays news. Anyway I guess u needed my crib notes about my post:)

BTW I guess my total post count here means I have been around for awhile so chill as most that know me know that I was just not trying to stir it up.

I don't think big boys cry on internet forums! : )

Personally, I did not read your post as belittling "carbone" (I merely pointed out that is was a possible interpretation), but feel free to take out your anger on me.

[Smiley]

I don't think big boys cry on internet forums! : )

Personally, I did not read your post as belittling "carbone" (I merely pointed out that is was a possible interpretation), but feel free to take out your anger on me.


I would not have put "smiley" faces in my response if I was angy with u BTW. So no worries on my end. But geez some folks get bent out of shape if Carbone is attacked in any way shape of form. I personally LOVE carbon since it helps me sell Ti and Steel bikes .....really.

I also think the technoogical gap between the cheapo carbon bikes and the really high end has closed consderably and if not the fact that most Carbone bikes are crit geometry frames I would be interested BUT I kind of know what flavor I like and I like steel ......:)

[Pete Serotta]

I don't think big boys cry on internet forums! : )

Personally, I did not read your post as belittling "carbone" (I merely pointed out that is was a possible interpretation), but feel free to take out your anger on me.


I do not cry on the internet but do take offense of others on notes like yours and DUKE's.

I assure you I do not cry but do have zero tolerance for attacking others. :beer:

So lets drop it....THANKS

[Dekonick]

Learning how to spell carbon would be a starting point.
duke

Are you friends with Dan Quayle? (OBVIOUSLY a JOKE!)

[130R]

these replies above are why no one posts in general discussion.

[firerescuefin]

Back to the OP...I wouldn't have any problem riding/racing a 5200, but those bikes lack sustainable cache. The same technology has been used in fighter aircraft since the late 70's and 80's and many of those tailnumbers are still flying, so a carbon bike (made in the last 12 years) is not going to catastrophically fail under you, and many will ride well.

I have been looking into a classic steel bike as this forum has given me an appetite for one. It seems many of you are reliving your youth or owning the bike you couldn't afford then. I wouldn't be doing that, but like the thought of riding something classic. I don't expect it to ride like a new carbon bike or modern geo ti. No one drives a 66 mustang because it runs circles around a new sports car.

[Pete Serotta]

I don't see why Duke needs to apologize. It is easy to read Smiley's original post as another baseless rant about carbon, which would deserve heckling.

and stop the SMILEY negative discussion. You do not have to agree or disagree with me or him, or anyone else but your tone is not welcome here.


PETE

[duke]

Hey guys,
It was an attempt at humor. Seems like it landed with a thud. I forgot that some people around here are wound up a lot tighter than I am. No offense meant Smiley.
Best regards,
duke

[Pete Serotta]

Duke, thanks,,,PETE

[Dekonick]

A little OT, but has anyone seen, or experienced first hand, examples of carbon/glue/bonded/lugged frames failing? Or alum./bonded/lugged frames failing for that matter. I hear of that potential but I can't recall any examples.

I can tell you first hand that laminated materials fail at high heat exposure. As far as frames go I can't say... but any house that is made of that crap will collapse rather quickly when exposed to heat (read - fire...)

NIST has done a good study demonstrating the weakness of these supposed wonder materials. I do not know how the newer carbon bikes are made, I suspect each uses a different epoxy resin and layup. Without more information, I would not want to use older crapon err carbon(e) components. Too many unknowns at this point in time. I would trust a Serotta, Calfe, etc... but not so sure about the majority...especially early junk (Specialized Epic anyone?)

Just my .02

Quick rant:

FWIW - It really sucks to have your arse fall through the floor because some dumbarse contractor decided to go cheap and not install residential sprinklers... especially if they use the wonder materials so they can span 20 feet to keep 'annoying' supports out of the basement... :crap:

Thanks guys! ::sigh::

[Pete Serotta]

Thanks for the informative post. PETE


I can tell you first hand that laminated materials fail at high heat exposure. As far as frames go I can't say... but any house that is made of that crap will collapse rather quickly when exposed to heat (read - fire...)

NIST has done a good study demonstrating the weakness of these supposed wonder materials. I do not know how the newer carbon bikes are made, I suspect each uses a different epoxy resin and layup. Without more information, I would not want to use older crapon err carbon(e) components. Too many unknowns at this point in time. I would trust a Serotta, Calfe, etc... but not so sure about the majority...especially early junk (Specialized Epic anyone?)

Just my .02

Quick rant:

FWIW - It really sucks to have your arse fall through the floor because some dumbarse contractor decided to go cheap and not install residential sprinklers... especially if they use the wonder materials so they can span 20 feet to keep 'annoying' supports out of the basement... :crap:

Thanks guys! ::sigh::

[Dekonick]

Back to the OP...I wouldn't have any problem riding/racing a 5200, but those bikes lack sustainable cache. The same technology has been used in fighter aircraft since the late 70's and 80's and many of those tailnumbers are still flying, so a carbon bike (made in the last 12 years) is not going to catastrophically fail under you, and many will ride well.

I have been looking into a classic steel bike as this forum has given me an appetite for one. It seems many of you are reliving your youth or owning the bike you couldn't afford then. I wouldn't be doing that, but like the thought of riding something classic. I don't expect it to ride like a new carbon bike or modern geo ti. No one drives a 66 mustang because it runs circles around a new sports car.

Yeah... but those same aircraft are checked before and after every flight... and they have a parachute! :hello:

[firerescuefin]

Yeah... but those same aircraft are checked before and after every flight... and they have a parachute! :hello:


Dek...If I put you on a 12 year old Trek that had been maintained, are you worrying about it failing.

"Modern constrution" failing in a building fire??? Cmon bro. How is that relevant to a 10-12 year old carbon bike sitting in someone's garage....and that's coming from a guy that used the F-16 example.

I don't own carbon, don't have a particular affinity, although a custom carbon from Crumpton or Strong would be on my short list if I had money burning a hole in my pocket. I am trying to answer Smiley's original question....why aren't people building up 10 year old carbon bikes.

[Pete Serotta]

Some of the 10 year old (and older) carbon did have some adhesive problems. Additionally the technology has changed as has weight and responsiveness.

If a frame puts a smile on your face than it should be ridden but the early adhesives had "aging" and heat challenges,

I personally would not have one BUT I would not voice an opinion to someone if they were happy on one. Whatever makes someone happy is good :D

I have personal quirks - one is I give my helmets away (ie leave them if someone wants to pick it up and keep it that is fine) after 3 years. That is just me.

Another quirk is when I replace tires on my vehicles...again just me and not backed up be science but by my peace of mind.

Do what makes you at peace and happy.


PETE


Dek...If I put you on a 12 year old Trek that had been maintained, are you worrying about it failing.

"Modern constrution" failing in a building in a fire??? Cmon bro. How is that relevant to a 10-12 year old carbon bike sitting in someone's garage....and that's coming from a guy that used the F-16 example.

I don't own carbon, don't have a particular affinity, although a custom carbon from Crumpton or Strong would be on my short list if I had money burning a hole in my pocket. I am trying to answer Smiley's original question....why aren't people building up 10 year old carbon bikes.

[m.skeen]

I thoroughly enjoyed my old Look KG281 (and I raced on it). I would have kept it but it was too small.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/veloaudio/Serotta%20Forums/KG281_1.jpg

[nahtnoj]

adhesives in very hot weather were not mature than as it is now.

Steel is steel but carbon has developed and become better and more trouble free.

One thing to really watch, "of late: is the first very light ones...they can be fragile.

Yeah HSG is excellent -- - bet you thought you would never hear me say that. :D :D PETE

We are not talking about high heat. Angry was talking about a "basement find". What would I rather ride - steel or carbon, after years in a damp environment? Uh, I'll take things that don't rust for $200, Alex...

[gaozilla]

I thoroughly enjoyed my old Look KG281 (and I raced on it). I would have kept it but it was too small.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/veloaudio/Serotta%20Forums/KG281_1.jpg

LOOK brothers!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6010/5919333227_02c5da7482_z.jpg

[zap]

edit

I can tell you first hand that laminated materials fail at high heat exposure. As far as frames go I can't say... but any house that is made of that crap will collapse rather quickly when exposed to heat (read - fire...)

FWIW - It really sucks to have your arse fall through the floor because some dumbarse contractor decided to go cheap and not install residential sprinklers... especially if they use the wonder materials so they can span 20 feet to keep 'annoying' supports out of the basement... :crap:

Thanks guys! ::sigh::

Can't compare a bouncy house (I've walked through homes with those joists you are referring too) with 10-20 year old carbone frames.

Besides, concrete (epoxy) with rebar (carbon) equals a composite and does not burn.

[EDS]

I do not cry on the internet but do take offense of others on notes like yours and DUKE's.

I assure you I do not cry but do have zero tolerance for attacking others. :beer:

So lets drop it....THANKS

Smiley face (in my post) Pete, smiley face. Perhaps you did not appreciate its meaning.

[Dekonick]

edit



Can't compare a bouncy house (I've walked through homes with those joists you are referring too) with 10-20 year old carbone frames.

Besides, concrete (epoxy) with rebar (carbon) equals a composite and does not burn.

The example was a bit extreme - but my point is there is little data available on the durability of the early carbon/epoxy that was used pre 2000. I know that the Specialized Epic I had in 1992 was a POS and other frames similar to mine were delaminating. I would much rather ride a 50 year old steel bike found in the basement than a 20 year old carbon frame. At least the steel bike can be checked and if it is going to fail, will probably not do so catastrophically.

As far as the concrete and rebar example - no dice. There is plenty of data showing how that mix survives heat - not so for the modern composite I beam. Failure from a smouldering fire is less than 8 minutes... check out the NIST study and video - scary stuff... I wouldn't want to live in a McMansion.

For bikes - at least steel has a long history. Carbon... well... I don't trust the composite glue from 20+ years ago... not without study.

FWIW - the glue in wooden composites decomposes at fairly low temperatures something like 500 degrees or so. That is the risk if your house catches on fire. I am fairly certain most carbon bikes are safe from these temperatures:)

[Brian Smith]

Old or new, what's inside matters most!

[Pete Serotta]

Old or new, what's inside matters most!
:bike: Brian knows this well.


Additionally, Brian thanks for contributing to FORUM and beers are on me one evening up in SARATOGA (unless we can get them to give the bill to Steve F :beer:

PETE