Bruce Gordon Cycles in financial trouble...

[sashae]

From the Bruce Gordon Blog (http://brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com/2011/07/ready-set-go-order-custom-now.html):

We need to receive some custom orders to keep the doors open. We have been trying to keep our heads up, but we need your help to keep doing what we love to do: make beautiful, functional bicycles.

We currently have only a couple of orders on the books, so we are ready right now to design, machine, and weld your dream bike right now.

No inflated waiting list, no silly questionnaires, no B.S.

Let's make you a bike that you'll ride for the rest of your life.


It'd be a shame if BG shuts down...

[1happygirl]

OH NO :eek:

I have mentioned before he's my next/first on my list. I was hoping to get back riding and get some miles in before I do custom.

Wow. That's very sad. I hope not. If I hadn't just done something stupid, I would jump. I'd even wanna sent him some money just 'cuz.

[eddief]

nice stuff, really nice stuff. but doing your own Taiwan line of framesets must take some big resources. best of luck to him...and i mean that in all sincerity.

[false_Aest]

Damn.

I love the look of BG's work.

I'd love to order up a dialed race frame from the dude but to me that'd be like asking Ansel Adams to make a portrait of Ronald Regan.

[eddief]

he could do Ronald justice, even after being dead a while (both of em).

Damn.

I love the look of BG's work.

I'd love to order up a dialed race frame from the dude but to me that'd be like asking Ansel Adams to make a portrait of Ronald Regan.

[false_Aest]

It's true but Ansel is the only artist to ever turn down a presidential portrait commission.


And yes, I'm equating Bruce with Ansel.

Bruce is probably better 'n' less boring too.

[dave thompson]

It's true but Ansel is the only artist to ever turn down a presidential portrait commission.


And yes, I'm equating Bruce with Ansel.

Bruce is probably better 'n' less boring too.
If anything, Bruce is not boring!

[gomango]

Sad news.

My Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road was the bike that got me back into everyday riding after major knee surgery.

I've often thought a new custom touring bike from Bruce would be a wise, long term choice.

Although the timings not good for a custom ordered bicycle at our house, it wouldn't hurt to have a conversation with my chief accountant at dinner tonight.

[zap]

If Bruce Gordon is having trouble.......what about other framebuilders.

WSJ had an artice about Sacha White last week and the writter estimated that Vanilla's revenue was around US$600k/yr.

[bfd]

From the Bruce Gordon Blog (http://brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com/2011/07/ready-set-go-order-custom-now.html):

We need to receive some custom orders to keep the doors open. We have been trying to keep our heads up, but we need your help to keep doing what we love to do: make beautiful, functional bicycles.

We currently have only a couple of orders on the books, so we are ready right now to design, machine, and weld your dream bike right now.

No inflated waiting list, no silly questionnaires, no B.S.

Let's make you a bike that you'll ride for the rest of your life.


It'd be a shame if BG shuts down...

Pricing isn't too bad either:

"If you call us now to order a handmade TIG-welded frame and fork, your new frame will be shipped in three to four weeks. You can order a touring, cross, road, or mountain bike frame/fork and it will be in your hands within 4-6 weeks.

Here is a basic list of our pricing. Please call for an exact quote based on your needs.




◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊


Rock ‘n Road Tour or Tour EX (26” frame) in a standard size = $1600 + S&H


Custom Sized Rock N’ Road = $1850 + S&H


Road, Mountain, Cross = $1800 + S&H


Fancy tubing and/or Fork ... Call for a Quote


Complete bikes also available .... Call for a Quote


◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊-◊





Give us a call. We can be reached Monday to Friday, 9 to 5. Thank you.

(707) 762-5601"

He should have added *operators are standing by....*Good Luck!

[Steeleye]

That is a shame. I bought a Chinook frame from Bruce in 1983 after my Bianchi was pretzeled by the side of the car that had just turned left in front of me. 28 years later it's still a sweet ride.

[EricEstlund]

Guys- he's not out of business yet. If you find it sad, order a bike from Bruce or anyone on your short list and help keep the lights on till next year.

[gomango]

Guys- he's not out of business yet. If you find it sad, order a bike from Bruce or anyone on your short list and help keep the lights on till next year.


I'm considering a "conversation plan" with my wife as I sit in the heat here this afternoon. :)

Her brother is in need of a new tourer, and this may be the right choice.

[Der_Kruscher]

His gallery sort of gives the impression that he hasn't done anything new for awhile - everything on his site has been on there for at least a few years. And stuff like these carbon bars (http://www.bgcycles.com/accessories.html) seem like a pretty poor use of resources and a strange diversion from framebuilding. How many people are going to blow $189 on silly looking carbon bars, particularly when most of his customers/potential customers are likely fairly conservative in regards to componentry. I hope he gets some orders in though - his stuff is cool and distinctly his own.

[bgcycles]

Damn.
I'd love to order up a dialed race frame from the dude but to me that'd be like asking Ansel Adams to make a portrait of Ronald Regan.

No problem to order a race frame - just call - in the last 38 years I must have made a race bike or two. I'm afraid I don't get the Ansel Adams - Ronald Regan analogy???

Regards,
Bruce Gordon
www.bgcycles.com

[Kane]

Bruce makes some incredible bikes. I lived in Petaluma for years and Bruce's work is superb. How many times has he won best of show at the custom bike show?
Why not the best?

[Nelson99]

Do you have lugs for 72.5 or 72 degree seat tubes?

[Olmo]

No problem to order a race frame - just call - in the last 38 years I must have made a race bike or two. I'm afraid I don't get the Ansel Adams - Ronald Regan analogy???

Regards,
Bruce Gordon
www.bgcycles.com

I've never ridden a Bruce Gordon bike but I have a couple of thoughts referencing this:

http://overopinionatedframebuilder.blogspot.com/

Considering BG is willing to break #1, things must be dire. Anyone considering a custom in this price range should definitely consider one of his frames.

I've observed several "name" builders and very famous shop owners/wrenches at become quite negative in the past several years. They observe the usual stream of lawyers, doctors, and others dropping nearly $10k around their neck of the woods, and rant about their commitment to cycling and how those purchasing with plastic are not bringing their dollars to their doorstep.

This always makes me sad. I think every cyclist should have a choice regarding where they should be able to spend their money to get what they want. After all, they are the ones paying for it. What really makes me sad though, is that the same builders and shops that used to deliver world class service and exceptional craftsmanship just aren't giving it their all anymore. They are burnt out watching the latest group ride past on imported Italians or the like of the Trek Madones, of which they didn't receive what they perceived as their "due".

I don't know Bruce Gordon and I hope this doesn't apply to him. Hopefully he'll keep the doors open with some new sales. My thought is that if he doesn't have anything in process and his brand is kind of flying under the radar of the custom steel market, then maybe he should have reconsidered #9 from the link above. Sounds to me that exactly what Bruce needed was some publicity, and I think his time and efforts in building a frame for a blog or cycling writer would be a pretty good trade-off considering he doesn't sound very busy with orders right now. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but I want to make the point.

Sometimes the best craftsmen don't make the best businessmen. Having made world class bikes for thirty years is not an entitlement to forget that at the end of the day if you don't take care of your customers, you won't have any.

Maybe I'm just becoming a curmudgeon as I get older, but it seems to me that some famous shops and some name builders think their customers "owe" them something. I've observed builders and owners downright mocking their customers and prospective customers.

I guess my only point is that if I was in the market for a custom and I read the list that Bruce Gordon published on his blog that I linked to above, that I'd probably pass.

Some of what is offered there is great advice, very sound reasonable stuff. However, a bike is more than utilitarian transportation to me. If as a customer I'm a "bother" from what you do, and my interaction with you, as you build my dreambike is a hassle, maybe you really don't know what it is you are doing. In that you think you are crafting and selling people great frames, but are missing out that in attempting to buy what you are peddling they are really puchasing the custom "experience", including the interaction with the neo-celebrity builder.

Hopefully this doesn't sound too harsh, but I've seen more than one builder mouth off about what the customer expects for what they are paying for a "custom handmade frame." If the builders don't want to give their all to what they are making for what they can sell them for today, compared to their portfolio of bikes they have made for others, it might be time to get out of the business.

No one said capitalism wasn't cruel. Hopefully Bruce Gordon finds the orders he needs to keep the lights on. I'm not sure the Serotta forum is the place to do that. Around here, conspicuous consumption kind of dominates things. There isn't enough "brand recognition" to satisfy the vanity of the typical Serotta forum member/owner, I suspect with a Bruce Gordon bike.

Maybe Bruce finds the traction he needs to reinvigorate his brand to reach a whole new generation of cyclists. However, if it were me, I'd start by rethinking my approach to my business. Starting with getting rid of anything, including my own thought patterns, that might be driving away prospective customers.

#1 - If someone wanted a race bike, I'd build it as best I could. Either I can make great handcrafted bikes, or I can't. If they wanted an "art bike" I wouldn't think about how much time (or equivalent time value of money) I was putting into the bike, but instead thinking about at least I'm working. A work of art being ridden is sure to generate more work.

#2 - I'd learn to communicate honestly, openly and assertively regarding what the customer is going to end up with based on what they are asking for. If they want three bikes in one, that's why they are considering a custom in the first place. If they wanted three separate bikes (road, tour, fixie, disc/cantis, 650b/700c) they would just buy them stock, not custom.

#3 - Be flexible regarding what you are willing to work with, including what you haven't worked with before. Make reasonable business decisions to protect yourself as you build what the custom wants you to build for them, but if you make mistakes along the way, start over and deliver to the customer what they expect. Slay the demons of "how much time you've already invested" as, again, working for something, anything, is better than not working at all. If there were a line of customers out the door for what you "always do" you wouldn't be pleading for orders to stay in business.

#6 - Don't discourage customers from asking you to build a version of someone elses bike. Be flattered that they wanted your version of the bike that they want. Revisit your own #4. The customer knows what he wants, and is communicating it to you. You just don't want to build it. If you had a line of customers wanting you to build what "you do" out the door, again, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in. Be thankful for their business. Treat every bike as walking ad-copy for your business. Treat every customer as if they possess all the goodwill of your brand, because truly they do. If you don't treasure the customers not only will you lose all the opportunity sales that would have come from that customer's pride in their bike, but you'll find your brand diminished as the customer communicates their negative experience in working with you.

You can't have it both ways. If paying customers constantly calling excited about the bike you are crafting for them are "delay[ing] the build" creating a "pissed off builder doing a hurried job to get you off of his/her back," well...don't be surprised when you run out of customers and can't keep the lights on.

I hope you read this Bruce Gordon, and read it with an open mind. Hopefully there is something here that I've posted that is relevant to you.

However, my experience has been with aging custom builders and shop owners is that sense of entitlement pervades. When a business or a brand starts thinking their customers are "lucky" to work with them, considering what the customers are "getting" for what they are "paying", things aren't going to end well for that business or its customers, long term.

Caveat emptor et caveat venditor

Lastly, and I don't have a dog in this fight, but why stop now, I find it tacky that the builder actually posted on the Serotta website asking for building business. Posting on a competitors forum that they provide to THEIR community, trying to drum up business for yours, is classless. I undrestand that Gordon didn't start the thread, but I am surprised. Maybe if you'd gone the forum route yourself or actually made more bikes for those bloggers, perhaps you'd have your own community? As it is it seems you don't even have customers.

Think about why. Think about how you can offer the great bikes you build to your customers, so they will not only treasure the bike and the craftsmanship, but the process and experience of having been your customer. Do that, and you'll be so busy you won't be able to figure out how to build all the bikes!

[EricEstlund]

That isn't Bruce's blog, and he didn't start this thread.

[rice rocket]

Olmo, you need to step away from the keyboard for a moment and stop reading into things. This isn't the first time you've misplaced your anger in your (short) history here.

[firerescuefin]

Olmo,

:confused: ????? :confused:

[cat6]

I've never ridden a Bruce Gordon bike but I have a couple of thoughts referencing this:

http://overopinionatedframebuilder.blogspot.com/

Considering BG is willing to break #1, things must be dire. Anyone considering a custom in this price range should definitely consider one of his frames.

I've observed several "name" builders and very famous shop owners/wrenches at become quite negative in the past several years. They observe the usual stream of lawyers, doctors, and others dropping nearly $10k around their neck of the woods, and rant about their commitment to cycling and how those purchasing with plastic are not bringing their dollars to their doorstep.

This always makes me sad. I think every cyclist should have a choice regarding where they should be able to spend their money to get what they want. After all, they are the ones paying for it. What really makes me sad though, is that the same builders and shops that used to deliver world class service and exceptional craftsmanship just aren't giving it their all anymore. They are burnt out watching the latest group ride past on imported Italians or the like of the Trek Madones, of which they didn't receive what they perceived as their "due".

I don't know Bruce Gordon and I hope this doesn't apply to him. Hopefully he'll keep the doors open with some new sales. My thought is that if he doesn't have anything in process and his brand is kind of flying under the radar of the custom steel market, then maybe he should have reconsidered #9 from the link above. Sounds to me that exactly what Bruce needed was some publicity, and I think his time and efforts in building a frame for a blog or cycling writer would be a pretty good trade-off considering he doesn't sound very busy with orders right now. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but I want to make the point.

Sometimes the best craftsmen don't make the best businessmen. Having made world class bikes for thirty years is not an entitlement to forget that at the end of the day if you don't take care of your customers, you won't have any.

Maybe I'm just becoming a curmudgeon as I get older, but it seems to me that some famous shops and some name builders think their customers "owe" them something. I've observed builders and owners downright mocking their customers and prospective customers.

I guess my only point is that if I was in the market for a custom and I read the list that Bruce Gordon published on his blog that I linked to above, that I'd probably pass.

Some of what is offered there is great advice, very sound reasonable stuff. However, a bike is more than utilitarian transportation to me. If as a customer I'm a "bother" from what you do, and my interaction with you, as you build my dreambike is a hassle, maybe you really don't know what it is you are doing. In that you think you are crafting and selling people great frames, but are missing out that in attempting to buy what you are peddling they are really puchasing the custom "experience", including the interaction with the neo-celebrity builder.

Hopefully this doesn't sound too harsh, but I've seen more than one builder mouth off about what the customer expects for what they are paying for a "custom handmade frame." If the builders don't want to give their all to what they are making for what they can sell them for today, compared to their portfolio of bikes they have made for others, it might be time to get out of the business.

No one said capitalism wasn't cruel. Hopefully Bruce Gordon finds the orders he needs to keep the lights on. I'm not sure the Serotta forum is the place to do that. Around here, conspicuous consumption kind of dominates things. There isn't enough "brand recognition" to satisfy the vanity of the typical Serotta forum member/owner, I suspect with a Bruce Gordon bike.

Maybe Bruce finds the traction he needs to reinvigorate his brand to reach a whole new generation of cyclists. However, if it were me, I'd start by rethinking my approach to my business. Starting with getting rid of anything, including my own thought patterns, that might be driving away prospective customers.

#1 - If someone wanted a race bike, I'd build it as best I could. Either I can make great handcrafted bikes, or I can't. If they wanted an "art bike" I wouldn't think about how much time (or equivalent time value of money) I was putting into the bike, but instead thinking about at least I'm working. A work of art being ridden is sure to generate more work.

#2 - I'd learn to communicate honestly, openly and assertively regarding what the customer is going to end up with based on what they are asking for. If they want three bikes in one, that's why they are considering a custom in the first place. If they wanted three separate bikes (road, tour, fixie, disc/cantis, 650b/700c) they would just buy them stock, not custom.

#3 - Be flexible regarding what you are willing to work with, including what you haven't worked with before. Make reasonable business decisions to protect yourself as you build what the custom wants you to build for them, but if you make mistakes along the way, start over and deliver to the customer what they expect. Slay the demons of "how much time you've already invested" as, again, working for something, anything, is better than not working at all. If there were a line of customers out the door for what you "always do" you wouldn't be pleading for orders to stay in business.

#6 - Don't discourage customers from asking you to build a version of someone elses bike. Be flattered that they wanted your version of the bike that they want. Revisit your own #4. The customer knows what he wants, and is communicating it to you. You just don't want to build it. If you had a line of customers wanting you to build what "you do" out the door, again, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in. Be thankful for their business. Treat every bike as walking ad-copy for your business. Treat every customer as if they possess all the goodwill of your brand, because truly they do. If you don't treasure the customers not only will you lose all the opportunity sales that would have come from that customer's pride in their bike, but you'll find your brand diminished as the customer communicates their negative experience in working with you.

You can't have it both ways. If paying customers constantly calling excited about the bike you are crafting for them are "delay[ing] the build" creating a "pissed off builder doing a hurried job to get you off of his/her back," well...don't be surprised when you run out of customers and can't keep the lights on.

I hope you read this Bruce Gordon, and read it with an open mind. Hopefully there is something here that I've posted that is relevant to you.

However, my experience has been with aging custom builders and shop owners is that sense of entitlement pervades. When a business or a brand starts thinking their customers are "lucky" to work with them, considering what the customers are "getting" for what they are "paying", things aren't going to end well for that business or its customers, long term.

Caveat emptor et caveat venditor

Lastly, and I don't have a dog in this fight, but why stop now, I find it tacky that the builder actually posted on the Serotta website asking for building business. Posting on a competitors forum that they provide to THEIR community, trying to drum up business for yours, is classless. I undrestand that Gordon didn't start the thread, but I am surprised. Maybe if you'd gone the forum route yourself or actually made more bikes for those bloggers, perhaps you'd have your own community? As it is it seems you don't even have customers.

Think about why. Think about how you can offer the great bikes you build to your customers, so they will not only treasure the bike and the craftsmanship, but the process and experience of having been your customer. Do that, and you'll be so busy you won't be able to figure out how to build all the bikes!

That is not Bruce Gordon's blog, that was written by Paul Sadoff of Rock Lobster. You hastily assumed it was written by Bruce to do nothing more than kick him while he's down. Pretty low.

I like Paul's #11 from your referenced link, seems spot on. Thanks for the evidence of Paul's infinite wisdom.

[that guy]

That is not Bruce Gordon's blog, that was written by Paul Sadoff of Rock Lobster. You hastily assumed it was written by Bruce to do nothing more than kick him while he's down. Pretty low.

+1

Pretty lame

[GuyGadois]

Bruce makes some of the nicest frames around. He has been around the bike business longer then many of the other builders. I don't think OLMO's rant gave Bruce the respect he deserves. I'm not a frame builder but I would bet Bruce is admired by many of his colleagues.

GG

[false_Aest]

No problem to order a race frame - just call - in the last 38 years I must have made a race bike or two. I'm afraid I don't get the Ansel Adams - Ronald Regan analogy???

Regards,
Bruce Gordon
www.bgcycles.com


Thanks Bruce. Spoke to you. Can't wait to try that light out. I'm trying to juggle my scratch to make one of your frames happen.

As for the analogy:

Ansel Adams could take a damn good picture but he wasn't known for his portraits. Ronald Reagan asked Ansel to do the presidential portrait and Ansel turned him down (IIRC, he's the only person to ever do that) . . . according to artsy lore Ansel turned him down because R.R's enviro policies didn't match with what Ansel was all about -- taking picts of stuff to help bring awareness to the natural beauty and to encourage conservation.

I made the reference because looking at your site I see a lot of really really sexy touring frames. It seems like that's the concentration and asking for something that doesn't go with your vibe doesn't make too much sense.

Another way to put it would be asking Richard Sachs for an integrated seat mast and CF chainstays.

OR

Going to an awesome Italian Restaurant and ordering a grilled cheese.

They're both capable of doing it but . . . why would/should they?

[Nooch]

Going to an awesome Italian Restaurant and ordering a grilled cheese.



Man, but could you imagine, fresh mozzarella and provolone grilled between two slices of foccacia bread (maybe ciabatta) with tomato, prosciutto and rosemary?

you go back to your conversation... I'll keep drooling...

[buldogge]

Panini...the Italian grilled cheese with extras. :p

-Mark in St. Louis

Man, but could you imagine, fresh mozzarella and provolone grilled between two slices of foccacia bread (maybe ciabatta) with tomato, prosciutto and rosemary?

you go back to your conversation... I'll keep drooling...

[oldpotatoe]

From the Bruce Gordon Blog (http://brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com/2011/07/ready-set-go-order-custom-now.html):

We need to receive some custom orders to keep the doors open. We have been trying to keep our heads up, but we need your help to keep doing what we love to do: make beautiful, functional bicycles.

We currently have only a couple of orders on the books, so we are ready right now to design, machine, and weld your dream bike right now.

No inflated waiting list, no silly questionnaires, no B.S.

Let's make you a bike that you'll ride for the rest of your life.


It'd be a shame if BG shuts down...

I wish him the best but his situation is not uncommon to a lot of direct to the customer, builders. Word of mouth, blogs, adverts can do a lot but a system of bike shops that sell your frame, even tho your margin is reduced, can be invaluable.

It has worked for Waterford, a small-ish steel builder.

[charliedid]

Hey Olmo

Why not give Bruce a call, I am sure he values your advice and might even hire you as a consultant.

[Climb01742]

I wish him the best but his situation is not uncommon to a lot of direct to the customer, builders. Word of mouth, blogs, adverts can do a lot but a system of bike shops that sell your frame, even tho your margin is reduced, can be invaluable.

It has worked for Waterford, a small-ish steel builder.

elderly-spud :D , could you talk a bit more about that. it's something i've wondered about...for small builders, what are the trade-offs and pro's/con's of direct model vs bike shop. thanks.

[Aaron O]

This topic was going around the CR list. My guess is that BG, unfairly or not, is primarily known as, and desired for, touring and light touring builds. I think the folks that have time to tour are likely, on the whole, younger. College kids. Kids taking a year off after college. People without kids. I think that demographic is less likely to be able to afford a custom bike and are more likely to buy an LHT and say good enough.

[1happygirl]

This topic was going around the CR list. My guess is that BG, unfairly or not, is primarily known as, and desired for, touring and light touring builds. I think the folks that have time to tour are likely, on the whole, younger. College kids. Kids taking a year off after college. People without kids. I think that demographic is less likely to be able to afford a custom bike and are more likely to buy an LHT and say good enough.
Possibly, but the touring bikes are recommended by Adventure Cycling among others and lately I see a lot of "mature", older folks taking up riding across the US.
Crazy guy on a bike has a lot of 'seniors' going coast to coast and fairly affluent. A great market.

[rugbysecondrow]

This topic was going around the CR list. My guess is that BG, unfairly or not, is primarily known as, and desired for, touring and light touring builds. I think the folks that have time to tour are likely, on the whole, younger. College kids. Kids taking a year off after college. People without kids. I think that demographic is less likely to be able to afford a custom bike and are more likely to buy an LHT and say good enough.


Just an observation, it seems people who purchase his bikes keep them for a very long time and they are not the type to indulge in lots of bike purchases. Very utilitarian riders it seems and also very good bikes that people keep and don't feel the need to upgrade from. I don't know if the observation is accurate or even what a proper conclusion is, if there is one, but it is interesting.

If I were to make another observation from looking at his site, the Custom page is nice, but the bit about only making 5-10 custom frames a year left me with the impression that it was not a focus or even desired line of business. I might be wrong and it might be my impression.

I have enjoyed perusing his site, best of luck BG.

[Aaron O]

Possibly, but the touring bikes are recommended by Adventure Cycling among others and lately I see a lot of "mature", older folks taking up riding across the US.
Crazy guy on a bike has a lot of 'seniors' going coast to coast and fairly affluent. A great market.

I'm not so sure. I'm not an expert on demographics, and I'm not overly familiar with the life styles of the rich and famous, but I think the people with disposable income, and that are fit enough to be interested in a custom bike, are not going to be, on the whole, older or younger. They're going to be middle aged - 30s to 50s. That crowd has kids and responsibilities. I don't think that demographic, by and large, has time to go touring cross country. They're lucky to get a weekend ride.

[skijoring]

Possibly, but the touring bikes are recommended by Adventure Cycling among others and lately I see a lot of "mature", older folks taking up riding across the US.
Crazy guy on a bike has a lot of 'seniors' going coast to coast and fairly affluent. A great market.


But, everyone (not really) are buying Long Haul Truckers from Surly. Those probably did more than anything to damage a framebuilders' bottom line that specializes in touring frames.

[Aaron O]

I've ridden LHTs - and I'd definitely buy a BG or Bilenky before I ever touched one of those 40lbs monstrosities again.

[biker72]

Possibly, but the touring bikes are recommended by Adventure Cycling among others and lately I see a lot of "mature", older folks taking up riding across the US.
Crazy guy on a bike has a lot of 'seniors' going coast to coast and fairly affluent. A great market.

Mature indeed. I work with 3 guys all in their 70's that have recently ridden across America. Two on steel bikes and one custom titanium.

[Ken Robb]

Mature indeed. I work with 3 guys all in their 70's that have recently ridden across America. Two on steel bikes and one custom titanium.

I'm impressed that you work with THREE guys who are still working AND riding across the country country. :beer:

[biker72]

I'm impressed that you work with THREE guys who are still working AND riding across the country country. :beer:

Working part time at a bike shop allows us to buy more bike stuff... :D

[eltonbalch]

Unfortunately, custom builders like Bruce can't compete with "the bigs" like Trek and Specialized among others. They all have access to cheap overseas manufacturing and many of their intermediate models are (lets face it) lots of bike for the money. When you factor in the soft economy, and the REALLY low prices on used high end bikes it is going to affect small custom manufacturers. Clearly, some (like Seven Cycles) are still doing well. IMHO it is just a shrinking market competing for fewer discretionary dollars. I hope it gets better but the next couple of years are going to be difficult for people like Bruce.

[bigflax925]

Unfortunately, custom builders like Bruce can't compete with "the bigs" like Trek and Specialized among others. They all have access to cheap overseas manufacturing and many of their intermediate models are (lets face it) lots of bike for the money. When you factor in the soft economy, and the REALLY low prices on used high end bikes it is going to affect small custom manufacturers. Clearly, some (like Seven Cycles) are still doing well. IMHO it is just a shrinking market competing for fewer discretionary dollars. I hope it gets better but the next couple of years are going to be difficult for people like Bruce.

They also have the marketing power that the little guys don't have. People see Trek and Specialized prominently displayed and assume that they are the go-to bikes. Unfortunately, most people, other than the aficionados, don't know that custom bikes exist. It's a niche within a niche and unless you're in the know - you don't know.

I know at one point that BG was looking for a guy to handle marketing. I wish I were local, I would've taken that over in a heartbeat.

I have never had a custom bike built - but right now I am trying more than ever to get some funds together to keep BG alive. I've never met or talked to him, but I spent many hours drooling over the pictures and reviews of his bikes back in the 80's. He was definitely an influence to me, and no doubt others, on the art.

[nahtnoj]

I wish him the best but his situation is not uncommon to a lot of direct to the customer, builders. Word of mouth, blogs, adverts can do a lot but a system of bike shops that sell your frame, even tho your margin is reduced, can be invaluable.

It has worked for Waterford, a small-ish steel builder.

Wait, are you like, a Waterford dealer or something?

[Joachim]

I understand the willingness to support BG cycles, but what happens to customer service/warranty etc, if someone pays for a frame and he unfortunately still goes out of business?

[eltonbalch]

A quick Google search produced this list. It was last updated in 2007 but I think it is still informative. Seems like a lot of competition in a diminishing market.

http://www.mikebentley.com/bike/bikemfg.htm

[bgcycles]

Morning Mr. Olmo
Thanks for your exhaustive, thorough, thought provoking analysis of my Blog
http://overopinionatedframebuilder.blogspot.com/

But, to paraphrase Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau from "The Pink Panther Strikes Again" - "It is not my Blog" (Say with a phony French accent).
As for your ID as "Olmo" - are you really Mr. Olmo of the Olmo bikes?
I thought he was dead.
I decided long ago not to take advice from "anonymous" people.
38 years ago I asked a "Magic Eight Ball" if I should make frames???
It said "Definitely Go For It!!"
One of my Pet Peeves is people who do not sign their name, but, esentially post with no accountablity.
Do you build frames??
Are you in the bike biz??

Regards,
Bruce Gordon
Bruce Gordon Cycles

P.S. Mr. Olmo also repremanded me for trolling for business on the Serotta Forum. Actually - I did not start this thread. When I have something to say - I post it on MY BLOG - http://brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com/

Also - Ben Serotta is a good friend of mine, who I have known for over 35 years. In fact Ben and I talked for about an hour yesterday about other things before this thing Blew UP

[fiamme red]

I've wanted a Bruce Gordon bike ever since I saw a Chinook, his production line back in the 1980's. Very simple and elegant, with a neat seatstay attachment to the seat lug.

If you're looking for touring/commuting racks, BG's are the best out there. They're also made in the USA (Tubus racks are made in China).

[Aaron O]

I've wanted a Bruce Gordon bike ever since I saw a Chinook, his production line back in the 1980's. Very simple and elegant, with a neat seatstay attachment to the seat lug.

If you're looking for touring/commuting racks, BG's are the best out there. They're also made in the USA (Tubus racks are made in China).
I'm fairly certain my ss Tubus racks were made in Germany. They're also quite well made. I'm sure bg racks are first rate, but the Tubus racks are also terrific. You can compliment bg without crapping on Tubus.

[Ken Robb]

I'm fairly certain my ss Tubus racks were made in Germany. They're also quite well made. I'm sure bg racks are first rate, but the Tubus racks are also terrific. You can compliment bg without crapping on Tubus.

I didn't equate "made in China" with crapping on Tubus. I thought he was just making the point that BG racks are made in the USA.

[fiamme red]

I'm fairly certain my ss Tubus racks were made in Germany. They're also quite well made. I'm sure bg racks are first rate, but the Tubus racks are also terrific.I have a black Tubus Logo on my commuter. Great rack, very stiff (much better than my Blackburn rack), except that much of the paint has come off.

I do give Tubus a lot of credit for being open about where and how their racks are made:

http://www.tubus.com/en/about-us/how-and-where-we-produce

The tube carriers are produced by our subsidiary Tubus Carrier Systems (Hangzhou) Co. Ltd. in Hangzhou, near Shanghai. About 45 workers produce all flexing and welding parts there, strictly following German maintenance of industrial health and safety standards and working hour regulations. We follow the principle of equality of all our staff, no matter in which country or department they are employed. Each of our Chinese co-workers has a similar health-, accident- and pensions-insurance as their colleagues in Germany. We employ - if possible - only local workers, who are integrated in local social networks through their families.

Of course our Chinese colleagues earn nominally less than their German co-workers, but in both countries the salaries are higher than the standard tariffs and all staff members are involved in the companies´success!

Especially in China we produce according to our own strict measures towards environmental preventive care, which are based on saving energy and all other resources, as well as using the production techniques with the lowest exhaust emission. For Chinese standards we may be a small company, but we still set standards with exemplary work conditions and environmentally compatible production.

[Aaron O]

I didn't equate "made in China" with crapping on Tubus. I thought he was just making the point that BG racks are made in the USA.
Fair point. I'm curious about the made in china comment.

[Aaron O]

I have a black Tubus Logo on my commuter. Great rack, very stiff (much better than my Blackburn rack), except that much of the paint has come off.

I do give Tubus a lot of credit for being open about where and how their racks are made:

http://www.tubus.com/en/about-us/how-and-where-we-produce

The tube carriers are produced by our subsidiary Tubus Carrier Systems (Hangzhou) Co. Ltd. in Hangzhou, near Shanghai. About 45 workers produce all flexing and welding parts there, strictly following German maintenance of industrial health and safety standards and working hour regulations. We follow the principle of equality of all our staff, no matter in which country or department they are employed. Each of our Chinese co-workers has a similar health-, accident- and pensions-insurance as their colleagues in Germany. We employ - if possible - only local workers, who are integrated in local social networks through their families.

Of course our Chinese colleagues earn nominally less than their German co-workers, but in both countries the salaries are higher than the standard tariffs and all staff members are involved in the companies´success!

Especially in China we produce according to our own strict measures towards environmental preventive care, which are based on saving energy and all other resources, as well as using the production techniques with the lowest exhaust emission. For Chinese standards we may be a small company, but we still set standards with exemplary work conditions and environmentally compatible production.Wow. Very disappointing. FYI, my racks had made in Germany stickers.

Apologies, you made a statement of fact.

[itsflantastic]

The bike I ride the most is a Bruce Gordon Chinook. Simply put, it's fantastic.

I also had one of his touring frames in the past (the BLT) which carried me across the country (a very different ride). I read some concern that Bruce might not be the best guy to go to for a custom road frame, but I have to disagree. He is definitely up there with the best frame builders you can find. The Chinook (from 1984!) is fast, solid, responsive, and stiff. As good a riding bike as I've ever had, really. And 25 years after that, I'm sure he knows a few more tricks :)

I'm going to post a picture or two of the Chinook today or tomorrow. Check it out. Simply gorgeous and a blast to ride.

Best of luck to you Bruce.
Your bikes have brought me thousands and thousands of miles of cycling bliss.
:beer:

Actually, after all of this reminiscing, I'm going to see if I can raise enough funds for a new touring or cyclocross frame. Anyone want to buy a Fender Rhodes? :D

Rock and Road,
Dan

[itsflantastic]

not my bike, but one of my favorites from his custom gallery.... so classy
http://www.bgcycles.com/gallery/custom/full_size/07-12.jpg

[dana_e]

He is straight up, no BS, great guy, great bikes.

[mister]

as for warranty, you buy from a builder like BG and there is really no need for warranty unless the frame is crashed or hit by a car or suffers some other abuse.

i'm sure BG has built all types of frames, i wouldn't hesitate or order from him if i were in the market for another custom. my experience with bill davidson was really awesome and i love the end product. i have no doubt anyone would get the exact same experience from Bruce. race frame, all arounder, touring, club rider...whatever, i'm sure Bruce can build it right.

can't tell you how many time i've looked at this photo set, some (late ?) 70's era frames that were refinished by elliot bay. so so so nice...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8379107@N03/sets/72157622856621712/


must be one of my favorite seatstay/seat lug arrangements...
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4217250773_cab4b2665a_b.jpg

[fogrider]

I would love to get a bg frame! but with 8 bikes in the stable, there just is not room not to mention funds. I saw bg at the nahabs in san jose a few years back and his bikes look really cool. but as many of you know there are lots of good builders out there and for many sasha white is the flavor of the month.

best of luck to bruce.

[LouDeeter]

If someone has a copy of the September/October 1983 issue of Bicycling magazine, I believe Bruce Gordon's Chinook, along with Richard Sachs, Brian Baylis, and Columbine (John & Richard Murphy) were profiled in an article USA vs the World. Bicycling editors compared top US builders with the likes of Gitane and other imports. It was a very good article and really set me on a path of collecting high end steel bikes. I would love to get a nice complete issue of that particularly magazine should someone have one they want to sell.

[slowandsteady]

They also have the marketing power that the little guys don't have. People see Trek and Specialized prominently displayed and assume that they are the go-to bikes.

Unfortunately, most people, other than the aficionados, don't know that custom bikes exist. It's a niche within a niche and unless you're in the know - you don't know.


EXACTLY!

[e-RICHIE]

If someone has a copy of the September/October 1983 issue of Bicycling magazine, I believe Bruce Gordon's Chinook, along with Richard Sachs, Brian Baylis, and Columbine (John & Richard Murphy) were profiled in an article USA vs the World. Bicycling editors compared top US builders with the likes of Gitane and other imports. It was a very good article and really set me on a path of collecting high end steel bikes. I would love to get a nice complete issue of that particularly magazine should someone have one they want to sell.


The USA Versus The World
i still have about 20-30 copies atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

;) ;) ;)
;) ;) ;)
;) ;) :D

[oldpotatoe]

elderly-spud :D , could you talk a bit more about that. it's something i've wondered about...for small builders, what are the trade-offs and pro's/con's of direct model vs bike shop. thanks.

Well, I'm a bike shop owner, not a frame builder but basically it's sort of the same model as mailorder, volume vs margin. Reduce you margin(via bike shops), increase your exposure, have staffs 'sell' your product, sing their praises(face it, a lot of customers want to be told what to do), sell more frames.

Waterford makes and sells about a thousand frames a year. I doubt they would do that if they sold direct. Same for the likes of Serotta, IF, Seven, etc.

BUT if a builder wants to stay small, exclusive, and because if that must make the maximum margin on each, then go direct but recognize that when going into a bike shop and asking about 'Bruce Gordon custom steel frames', the bike shop person might give the traditional 1000 yard stare.....'who?-

So the manufacturing costs have to be kept to scale..rent, materials, labor, insurance, have to be small, controlled as well.

[evo111@comcast.net]

Link to some pics of my BG

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=91481&highlight=bruce+gordon

[bfd]

You want to see a nice BG bike? Check out Robin's BG! Despite having 650b wheels, Robin is fast and can ride with just about anybody! (OK, may be he would have trouble keeping up with AS or AC!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/2205803740/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Check out the close up on the BG's ti rack and pointy brakes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/2130432834/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Here's a side shot of the rear:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/2130431754/sizes/o/in/photostream/
With the ti racks and pointy brakes, this bike probably cost in the $7K+ range. Not cheap, but you will be unique! Good Luck!