What tire do you like better?

[jberenyi]

Continental GP4000S or the Michelin Pro Race 3.

[Likes2ridefar]

I think the michelins ride better, and they feel faster but I've never seen confirmation they are actually faster for most conditions.

I find the pro3 durability lacking so do not use them though. They've cut quickly and I've flatted consistently more often with them.

The rear 4000s squares off quickly, but both front and rear have been significantly more durable than the pro3.

In my opinion, the 4000s races better in the rain, has far superior flat protection, but does not ride as nice as many other tires I've used.

My current favorite clincher is the Schwalbe ultremo zx. It's super smooth riding, and has been very cut and puncture resistant while weighing less grams than tires in it's same class. It also feels faster rolling than any clincher I've used.

[AngryScientist]

i voted because they were my only choices, but really i would choose neither if it were a choice.

[roguedog]

+1 I've been riding the Vittoria Open Paves and am really liking them. But if I had to choose between the two you've given, I'd prob go Conti. Just haven't heard great things about the Pro3s

i voted because they were my only choices, but really i would choose neither if it were a choice.

[rustychisel]

Michelin are not welcome on any of my bicycles.

[the night owl]

I put some Michelin Pro3s on my Serotta because they were a good deal at Ebay. I'm shocked at how quickly they wore out. It will be GP 4000s for me from now on.

[DRZRM]

As said above, I like the feel of the Pro Race 3, but they wear too quickly. Contis were my go to for a long time, but in the last year I'd vote Schwalbe Ultremo.

[AngryScientist]

these are hands down the best clinchers i've ever ridden. great feel to them, very predictable handling, and give you a great feeling of being "connected to the road". they arent great in the wear or flat protection department, but that's a trade-off for a great ride. these are my new go-to tire.

http://www.veloflextires.com/corsa22%20red400.jpg

[firerescuefin]

Have never ridden the veloflex's that AS is talking about. PR3s are my favorite, and they do wear faster than the Conti's, but when I am bombing down a descent or taking a corner in Crit, they stick (at least in my own mind, which affects the way I ride for the good). I haven't had all the flat issues others have had, but road conditions/maintenance vary drastically depending on where you live. I have found them as low as 65 a pair shipped on E-bay and at that pricepoint, I can afford to change them out.

[Aaron O]

these are hands down the best clinchers i've ever ridden. great feel to them, very predictable handling, and give you a great feeling of being "connected to the road". they arent great in the wear or flat protection department, but that's a trade-off for a great ride. these are my new go-to tire.

http://www.veloflextires.com/corsa22%20red400.jpg

+1

Zmudshark and Gomango pushed me into these and I have nothing to say but THANK YOU! I haven't flatted yet, they corner quickly and have a very nice road feel. Also terrific tread in rain.

I'm going to be using my first tubulars in about 20 years this week - I put a pair of Conti 4000 tbubies on my Primato - I'm really anxious to see if they're really that much better than a quality clincher.

[mgm777]

Depends on how you define "better". What does better mean to you? For some, the ride of the tire trumps all. I used to feel that way. For others, durability is a priority. For me, based on how I ride, something in the middle is what I am looking for.

For the ride - comfort/grip/smoothness - Michellin PR3

For Durability - GP4000S

I used to ride the PR3s, and PR2s before that, exclusively. However, I got tired of changing flats on the Michis. Now, I ride the GP4000s. The ride is not nearly as nice, but I don't have to mess around with chronic premature tire wear and flats nearly as often. Life is all about trade-offs, I guess.

With tires, I have come to the realization that I can't have it all, ride and durability. I have to choose one over the other. Based on my experience, the tires that ride the best: PR3s, Veloflex - Pave, Vittoria Open Corsa CX. For me, they all have durability issues. There was a time when I was willing to accept less durability for ride. Now, I have less patience for flats than I used to. So, I feel the GP4000s is a good compromise. Decent ride characteristics, but much better tire wear and flat resistance.

[biker72]

The best mileage I've ever had was 4200 miles on Bontrager Race Lite Hardcase tires. Not bad for a 200 pound rider on 700x23 rubber.

The bad news is of course that they rode like truck tires.... :D

The Continentals ride soooo much better.

[thwart]

However, I got tired of changing flats on the Michis. Yep. Ride with a PR3 fan... although lately not really. Lots 'o flats, whereas little ol' me, on my Corsa CX's or Paves, not so much.

Full disclosure: I ride at 10-15 lb less pressure as well.

[bigreen505]

Continental GP4000S or the Michelin Pro Race 3.

Between those two, the Continental is the better tire nearly any way you want to measure them, except for feel, where the Michelin feels nicer. I have never seen a tire more susceptible to cuts than the PR3. Right now I am riding a PR3 on the front and GP4000s on the back. So far they make a really nice combination.

EDIT: As a side note, the Michelin's have a sound that I really dislike, especially cornering and at high speed. It almost sounds like a puncture and is kind of unnerving. The Contis are silent.

[false_Aest]

Rode em both.

They require different pressures for optimal __insert jargon__

Both feel quite nice.

GP last longer.

Never had a PRO3 slip on a decreasing radius turn. GPs slipped once.

Both get better with latex tubes.

Flats are flats. No punctures with either.

Both are good enough. As are Schwalbe Ultremo, Vittoria EVO blahblahblah, Veloflex, etc. If you figure out the right pressure for em.





Then again.


I'm currently riding $20 Lithion 2s and ripping the same descents with no problem. Not as supple or whatever but a 3-5psi drop in pressure makes em work.

[Aaron O]

Rode em both.

They require different pressures for optimal __insert jargon__

Both feel quite nice.

GP last longer.

Never had a PRO3 slip on a decreasing radius turn. GPs slipped once.

Both get better with latex tubes.

Flats are flats. No punctures with either.

Both are good enough. As are Schwalbe Ultremo, Vittoria EVO blahblahblah, Veloflex, etc. If you figure out the right pressure for em.





Then again.


I'm currently riding $20 Lithion 2s and ripping the same descents with no problem. Not as supple or whatever but a 3-5psi drop in pressure makes em work.

That's something I've always been curious about - latex tubes. My LBS pushed me away from them and said they're a pain and not worth the extra cost. What are your experiences? Can you patch them conventionally (vulcanizing glue)? More flats? Less?

[hokoman]

That's something I've always been curious about - latex tubes. My LBS pushed me away from them and said they're a pain and not worth the extra cost. What are your experiences? Can you patch them conventionally (vulcanizing glue)? More flats? Less?

latex is the way to go. i was a non believer until i ponied up and tried it. it's worth the extra $10 per tube to try it.... i don't get flats often, so that's a non issue for me. The only pain is making sure your tire pressure is where it needs to be before every ride... it actually is a good thing.

[AngryScientist]

That's something I've always been curious about - latex tubes. My LBS pushed me away from them and said they're a pain and not worth the extra cost. What are your experiences? Can you patch them conventionally (vulcanizing glue)? More flats? Less?

my experience with latex tubes is that they are more prone to catestrophic failure - in other words, they tear. once an initial puncture forms, they seem to just make the tubes tear open, making them essentially impossible to repair. the ride was nicer while it last ed though...

[mgm777]

The pain associated with latex tubes is: 1. Price, 2. Need to refill with air more often. Latex tubes are more porous than butyl tubes. For me, the difference in ride quality, on Michi PR2s + Michi green latex tubes, was subtle at most, when compared to the same setup with traditional butyl tubes.

[Bob Ross]

I think the michelins ride better, and they feel faster but I've never seen confirmation they are actually faster for most conditions.

I find the pro3 durability lacking so do not use them though. They've cut quickly and I've flatted consistently more often with them.

The rear 4000s squares off quickly, but both front and rear have been significantly more durable than the pro3.



^^^ What he said.

[LegendRider]

I read somewhere (bikerumor.com?) that the Pro Race 4 will be released soon. Anyone else see that?

[champ]

+1 on the Conti GP 4000 and 4000s - good ride quality and puncture resistance, pretty good mileage (although the rear does square off so you have to rotate them) and fairly light. I wouldnt recommend them on Campy wheels though as they are very hard to mount, up there with Vredestein's.

[false_Aest]

re: latex tubes.

They're for the snobbish yo.

1) If you haven't actually tried to find the right tyre pressure for YOU don't bother spending 2-3x on latex.

2) If you don't check your tyre pressure before each ride then you're probably not gonna notice the difference.

3) If you don't talc your tubes before you insert them (no, this doesn't include on the side of the road) then its a waste.

4) If you're riding *****ty tires then you're wasting your money.

5) If you have a tendency to pinch flat, you're wasting your money.

6) If you flat often, its a waste of money.


---------

Yes, you can patch them. Do not leave them out where light can get to them. They seem to be more affected by age (you know how rubber bands turn to crap... same difference).

They are not for commuting. e.g. I start the day (8am) at 93/97 PSI and by 4pm they're down to 80 PSI.

I never had one catastrophically fail but I've never had a butyllllllllllllllll do that either.

It's more important to dial your tyre pressure than it is to upgrade to latex.

Don't do it because you think you'll notice a 20g difference in rotating weight.
-------

I stopped using them. I feel em. I like em. But I don't need them for everyday wheels. 3-5% less rolling resistance is great on race day but why do I care when I'm training on a set of wheels that weigh 1850g. Why am I gonna get pissed when I flat a $15 tube 30 miles into an 80 mile ride? It's kind've like commuting to work in rush hour driving a tweaked porsche or ferrari.

Race day? That's different. I'll be riding CF hoops latex tubed tubulars. I want that 9-12 watts. I want that comfort for the first 30 miles. If I flat all I care about is swapping a wheel fast.

[LouDeeter]

Right now, I'm liking the Challenge Paris-Roubaix 700x27 clinchers. I also like the Gran Bois 700x26 and 700x28, but the 700x30 were not as durable and besides, they don't fit on most of my bikes because of clearance issues. If I'm riding 700x23, I recommend either Veloflex, Vittoria Open Corsa CX, or Continental GP4000 or Continental Gatorskins if you really need the extra durability.

For best overall combination of ride and durability, I would go with the Continental Gatorskins in either 700x28 or 25.

I've also ridden Ruffy-Tuffy 700x28 and while I like the durability, the ride is harsher than the Gran Bois or Challenge tires.

Regarding latex tubes, my experience is that the latex tubes are slightly better ride, but you would be hard pressed to figure that out in a blind taste (ride) test. I only use them on the bikes that I use for climbing.

[thinpin]

I stopped using contis a few years back when the sidewall/bead area started to unravel on all the 4000 tyres I had. I this still an issue with conti? Maxxis courcheval are my preferred tyre. Maxxis refuse for training, commuting

[forrestw]

I stopped using contis a few years back when the sidewall/bead area started to unravel on all the 4000 tyres I had. I this still an issue with conti? Maxxis courcheval are my preferred tyre. Maxxis refuse for training, commuting

I was riding these on my fixed gear in summer until mid last season and yeah they would go about 2500 miles and then pretty well disintegrate. I don't think that's actually a bad thing, thier flat protection layer is only rated to go 2k miles and that's about the same mileage I've gotten from Vittorias with similar failure of the tire body that coincided with the tread wearing through.

To the OP, Prefer the contis but like several others here, I've switched to Schwalbe Ultremo for both clinchers and tubbies.

[Louis]

FWIW, I've had no cut problems at all with PR, PR-2 or PR-3.

On my front wheel they wear like iron. On my rear wheel, not as long.

(I don't bother to rotate, I just ride mis-matched.)

[Fivethumbs]

I have a 25 mm Lithium 2 in on the back and a 23mm PR3 on the front. It is a nice combo that gives a blend of comfort and handling. And since the rears wear out much faster it's cheaper in the long run. Considering that the standard rider weight distribution on a bike is somewhere around 55-60% over the rear wheel and 40-45% over the front wheel I always thought it was odd that bikes came with the same size in front and back. I also read somewhere that it is not a good idea to rotate the tires on a bike anyway.

[FlashUNC]

As someone who's used both, I'm definitely in the Conti camp.

I hated the PR3s. Decent ride, but horrible durability and flat resistance. The Contis last longer, ride 90 percent as well, and don't flat near as much.

[hainy]

Neither

Vittoria pave (autumn/winter)
Vittoria CX (spring/summer)

[weiwentg]

I've used the PR2s and the Conti GP 3000s. I felt like the PR2s rode better - less rolling resistance. At my weight (120), I don't feel like I have to worry much about durability. I have had one flat this year, after a storm.

I'll most likely get the PR3s when I wear these tires out. I feel like you can get good or bad comments about just about any high-end tire. However, it's interesting to hear that people generally think the PR3s are less durable than the GP 4000s. Do people think the PR3s are less durable than their predecessors, the PR2s?

[Bodid]

I just tried the Open Corsa EVO CX Vittoria tires; very nice a lot of road feel but smooth ride. I feel more confident on these tires. Also going to try the Vittoria Corsa EVO CX tubies. I finally took the plunge on a set of ENVE 1.25 tubulars. I've always wanted to try tubulars and these will be my climbing wheels. I think they will come in at sub 1K gms with the Soul Kozak hubs and CX ray spokes I've paired them with.

[97CSI]

+1 on the Conti GP 4000 and 4000s - good ride quality and puncture resistance, pretty good mileage (although the rear does square off so you have to rotate them) and fairly light. I wouldnt recommend them on Campy wheels though as they are very hard to mount, up there with Vredestein's.On the newer Campy wheels with the redesigned rims mounting Conti tires (4000s & Gatorskins) was no problem. Thumbs were my only tools.

[jhat]

Vittoria Open Corsa CX for me on all three of my road bikes.

[gianni]

Although I love the ride of conti's and have been a fan for over a decade, i have to admit that I would take the michi pro race 3. They ride/race great, in particular in the NW, in the wet! Dollar for dollar the pro race 3's are a better deal.

My 2 cents, although it appears that the forum disagrees...

[mike p]

I've got tons of miles on both PR3's and GP4000. Both are great race tires. PR3's hold a little better (traction) GP4000's have better durability. Lot's of comments about the durability of PR3's...they're race tires! There not everyday commuters! That's what gatorskins are for.

Mike

[JeffS]

The best mileage I've ever had was 4200 miles on Bontrager Race Lite Hardcase tires. Not bad for a 200 pound rider on 700x23 rubber.

The bad news is of course that they rode like truck tires.... :D

The Continentals ride soooo much better.


I'm surprised you put up with the Hardcase for that long. Worst tire I've ever tried to use. I inherited a set on a used bike. Tried to use them to avoid being wasteful. They rode as bad as a Specialized Armadillo. Put the bike on the rollers and not one, but both tires were out of round.

[endosch2]

For some actual data on PR3s instead of specualtion - first pair - 2267 miles, second pair, 2342 miles. I am on the third pair now with about 1800 miles and I expect the same life from them. I rotate them every 700 miles or so. Rider weight - 175. Lots of dirt roads and absolutely bombed out paved roads. 2 flats in 5 years of riding.

I have no problems with these tires like cutting. I am not sure what "premature wear" means to you but I think my experience has been really good. They also seem way faster to me than the contis I have rode in the past. I use Michelin Butyl tubes.

My other favorite thing about Michelins is that they are easy to mount.