Skipping in smallest cog question

[Jellybird3]

Hi all:

I recently installed a new 10 sp cassette and am experiencing something I can only describe as "skipping" when the chain is on the smallest cog. There's no unusual noise of sorts.

I had my LBS tune it but the problem still exists.

Strangely, the skipping only occurs when I apply muscle but not when it's in a stand and being hand-cranked (hence why my shop didn't even detect it).

Any ideas as to what might be the cause?

Thanks in advance.

[henrypretz]

Is the chain new, as well?

[Jellybird3]

It's not a new chain but it doesn't have that many miles on it I believe. I was wondering if that could be the problem.

If it is the chain, would I not experience skipping in other cogs?

[scottyjames]

Even if the chain is new -- which is the best option when you put on a new cassette -- you can still get some of that clicking and other carrying on under load. Generally all this stuff goes away over the course of just a few rides, though, as the chain and cassette wear in together.

[firerescuefin]

Think I may have this....look at the cassette lock ring. it may raise up slightly more than the valley of the cog. The lockring that came with my Mavics doesn't work with campy 11 cassette cog because of this problem. Take a looksee.

[henrypretz]

Think I may have this....look at the cassette lock ring. it may raise up slightly more than the valley of the cog. The lockring that came with my Mavics doesn't work with campy 11 cassette cog because of this problem. Take a looksee.

Good call.
Your post jogged my memory .... I have had this happen before, but had forgotten.

[Jellybird3]

First, big thanks for everyone's input. As you can see, I'm pretty new to the forum and am amazed that so many people take time out of their day to help others.

I took the wheel off and compared the valley of the cog to the lock ring. They look to be on the exact same plain.

If it helps, it's a Wheels Manufacturing Accelerator conversion cassette (Shimano freehub --> Campy chain / RD).

Thanks again.

[Mike748]

Is that a cassette you got from me? If so its not because of wear...

Are you using the Wheels lockring? Did you get the right amount of spacers behind it? Is the lockring tight?

A thought I'm having is that there isn't enough spline engagement on the 11 tooth sprocket and you're actually spinning it on the freehub (yikes?). With some hubs I've found its a fine line between enough spacers to keep the RD out of the spokes, and still have good engagement on the 11 tooth.

[Jellybird3]

Hi Mike:

It is from that cassette, and I am using the Wheels lockring. I had my LBS put the cassette and spacers on and they're the ones that tightened it since I don't have the tool to do so.

Would a good shop be able to determine if the sprocket is spinning on the freehub? My LBS is an over-worked, two-man shop that experiences a high level of tourists that need fixes immediately. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that they did a quick job installing this cassette.

[Mike748]

A quick way to check is to see if the index marks still line up. I think all the cogs have a mark (inverted triangle??) to indicate the "key" orientation, they should all line up. May be hard to see on the 11 tooth though.

Otherwise, anyone with a shimano lockring tool and a chain whip should be able to remove the lockring and check. The spacers should be such that the 11 tooth has a solid tactile click onto the splines. If it is indeed spinning, I would expect to see the ends of the splines a little chewed up.

For those who doubt this could happen... the Wheels lockring doesn't have a spring click like a normal Shimano lockring, and its aluminum. It will squeeze the cassette stack but it doesn't offer much to keep the small cog from turning.

Other thought I had is that the cable is a little tight or the low adjustment on the RD is a little tight to where the chain is catching the 12 tooth's ramp as you pedal. But that would feel more like a chain wanting to shift... noisy but not a skipping sensation.

[duke]

It may be a tight link on the chain that only binds when it is bent around the smallest cog.
duke

[Idris Icabod]

Are you using a Wippermann connecting link by chance? They are directional and if you have it reversed it will skip on your small cog.

[Jellybird3]

I just called the shop where I bought that link and confirmed that it is a Wippermann but I think it's on there correctly. I made sure that the U shaped groove on the side of that link curves WITH the cog.

The guy that I spoke with suggested that the chain might be on there up-side-down but he wasn't sure if that's possible with campy. Anyone know if campy chains are directional?

[Jellybird3]

A quick way to check is to see if the index marks still line up. I think all the cogs have a mark (inverted triangle??) to indicate the "key" orientation, they should all line up. May be hard to see on the 11 tooth though.

Otherwise, anyone with a shimano lockring tool and a chain whip should be able to remove the lockring and check. The spacers should be such that the 11 tooth has a solid tactile click onto the splines. If it is indeed spinning, I would expect to see the ends of the splines a little chewed up.

For those who doubt this could happen... the Wheels lockring doesn't have a spring click like a normal Shimano lockring, and its aluminum. It will squeeze the cassette stack but it doesn't offer much to keep the small cog from turning.

Other thought I had is that the cable is a little tight or the low adjustment on the RD is a little tight to where the chain is catching the 12 tooth's ramp as you pedal. But that would feel more like a chain wanting to shift... noisy but not a skipping sensation.


Thanks, Mike. I don't have the tools needed to check so I'm going to take my bike into another shop this afternoon. I'll post if they find a solution.

Thanks again all.

[TAW]

If it's only in the smallest cog, it could be that your b-tension screw needs adjustment, or that the limit screw is improperly adjusted. Does it have problems shifting into or out of this cog?

[Jellybird3]

It has no problem shifting INTO the gear but something funky is going on when I try to get out. It's difficult to tell since I'm usually going downhill while in that cog and am hesitant to look down/backwards to see.

I think it does take an extra click to get out but, again, I'm not entirely sure. I'm going go for a quick spin in an hour and try to pay more attention.

[Mike748]

That might support my theory... if the shifting ramps are now out of position.

BTW, chains are not directional.

I just checked the cassette on my wife's bike. Looks like each cog is stamped with number of teeth and the numbers all somewhat align... except the 12 on this particular cassette.

[CaptStash]

Are you using a Wippermann connecting link by chance? They are directional and if you have it reversed it will skip on your small cog.

I had the exact same problem and sure enough it was the Wipperman link. It's quick to flip so just try switching it around and see what happens. It sure couldn't hurt.

CaptStash....

[yashcha]

Are using a first generation Sram rival rear mech with a thin steel derauiller hanger? I have learned that you need to install a thin washer between the rear mech and the hanger to make it work properly in the smallest cog. I discovered this recently when I just could not get the chain to roll on the 12t, no matter how well adjusted.

Sorry I just reread the posts and it mentions campy.

[Jellybird3]

I had the exact same problem and sure enough it was the Wipperman link. It's quick to flip so just try switching it around and see what happens. It sure couldn't hurt.

CaptStash....


So yeah, it was the Wippermann link. I went for a quick ride after flipping it, and it works just fine now. Thanks, guys. I appreciate your help and I'm glad it was that easy to fix.

Now that I can use my highest gear, I can finally go break that land speed record.

[aoe]

So yeah, it was the Wippermann link. I went for a quick ride after flipping it, and it works just fine now. Thanks, guys. I appreciate your help and I'm glad it was that easy to fix.

Now that I'm high, I can finally go break that land speed record.

FIFY :fight: :beer:

[firerescuefin]

So yeah, it was the Wippermann link. I went for a quick ride after flipping it, and it works just fine now. Thanks, guys. I appreciate your help and I'm glad it was that easy to fix.

Now that I can use my highest gear, I can finally go break that land speed record.

Welcom to the forum. As you see, it is a helpful/friendly place. There is a lot of knowledge on here, some from people who have ridden for a long time, some whom have spent their lives in the bike industry.....it works :beer:

[oldpotatoe]

Hi all:

I recently installed a new 10 sp cassette and am experiencing something I can only describe as "skipping" when the chain is on the smallest cog. There's no unusual noise of sorts.

I had my LBS tune it but the problem still exists.

Strangely, the skipping only occurs when I apply muscle but not when it's in a stand and being hand-cranked (hence why my shop didn't even detect it).

Any ideas as to what might be the cause?

Thanks in advance.

Using a 11t cog?-make sure it has a 11t lockring-smaller.

Using a Wipperman link? It has an up and down...if upside down it will skip on a 11t cog.

[oldpotatoe]

I just called the shop where I bought that link and confirmed that it is a Wippermann but I think it's on there correctly. I made sure that the U shaped groove on the side of that link curves WITH the cog.

The guy that I spoke with suggested that the chain might be on there up-side-down but he wasn't sure if that's possible with campy. Anyone know if campy chains are directional?

They are not but your Wipperman link is upside down, since the Accel cogsets all start with an 11t.

[Jellybird3]

They are not but your Wipperman link is upside down, since the Accel cogsets all start with an 11t.

Thanks, oldpotatoe. I misunderstood which groove the shop was referring to. Since a few folks on this thread recommended it, I tried flipping it anyway and that fixed the problem right away.

It seem like this is common for people who use the Wippermann link. Makes me wonder if there were specific installation instructions on the box that I didn't see.

[Plum Hill]

There is a drawing of the link on the instruction sheet included with the chain.

Looking at the drive side and connecting the chain between the jockey pulley and chainring, it shows the outside link's pin on the right side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVUjgavW_Ao at the 2:10 mark.

[Jellybird3]

There is a drawing of the link on the instruction sheet included with the chain.

Looking at the drive side and connecting the chain between the jockey pulley and chainring, it shows the outside link's pin on the right side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVUjgavW_Ao at the 2:10 mark.


"RTFI," as my dad says.