Front brake problem

[Wilderbeast331]

So I bought a track frame a few months ago, I finally have it all built up and I'm trying to put a front brake on it but I am having a real problem getting a caliper for it. I had the fork drilled and the clearance is very minimal. I went to one of my LBS's and picked up a Shimano Sora caliper thinking it would work but when I bolted it on the top of the tire rubs on the caliper.
I am wondering if anyone knows of a caliper I can use with more clearance. Or any other ways around this problem.

Thanks.

[forrestw]

disregarding that you probably ought not to put a brake in a fork that's not designed for it, what I think you want is a single-pivot brake. Dual-pivots use 1/2 cm or more of head space that the older-style don't.

Campy may still make a single-pivot intended for use as a rear brake so that will involve some more work and expense. Otherwise you can still buy single-pivots new from Diacompe but IMO you're better off with vintage weinmann, diacompe etc for this application. I use these on my winter bike allowing *just* enough clearance for Nokian studded tires.

[Ken Robb]

I wonder if any of the centerpull brakes would work. The guys at Rivendell might be able to tell you.

[rustychisel]

+ 1

... what I think you want is a single-pivot brake. Dual-pivots use 1/2 cm or more of head space that the older-style don't.


good call. The best I've found is a Gipiemme Cronos sidepull... good clearance, adjustability, works well.

Other solutions without seeing the fork in question
- buy another fork, designed for mounting a brake
- use smaller tyre

[Wilderbeast331]

Buying a new for is not an option. The center pull ones would work but i don't have the mount for that kind. What are some low pro tires? I have the bontrager equivalent of an Armadillo now. My friend said something about vintage campy but I am expecting it not to be cheap.

[Wilderbeast331]

good call. The best I've found is a Gipiemme Cronos sidepull... good clearance, adjustability, works well.


Where can i get one of these?

[Ken Robb]

there are centerpull brakes that mount on a single bolt like a sidepull but you would have to add a cable stop ala cantilever brakes. The single pivot would be easier. FWIW I have standard reach Nuovo Record brakes on one bike. Their reputation is for poor stopping but I find they work fine with excellent modulation with new Jagwire pads especially when I use just my index fingers when I'm riding in the drops. They need enough hand pressure though that they aren't so good when braking while riding on the old-style Nuovo Record levers. I don't know if that would be improved if I used modern levers with a different leverage ratio.

[forrestw]

I've bought quite a few old-style brakes via ebay, craigslist and local shops that keep bins of older bike parts. Prices can be as low as $5, I've seen shops asking $40 for the same items, seeing them as vintage / collectable.

[Wilderbeast331]

Anyone know if there is a "Vintage" shimano caliper i could use with the right clearance. I would like to keep the components all shimano if i can.

[RPS]

Anyone know if there is a "Vintage" shimano caliper i could use with the right clearance. I would like to keep the components all shimano if i can.
Do you actually know what "right clearance" is? :confused: If tire is rubbing now how do you know a single pivot will solve the problem?

To your question: I had old Shimano 600s (I think that was model) single pivots and they didn't stop very well IMHO. Maybe with better pads they'd do OK -- not sure.

Single pivots sometimes do provide a "little" extra room because the arms don't swing towards the tire, but if you are willing to go with non-Shimano an aftermarket brake like Zero Gravity (not cheap unless used) may provide similar clearance as a single pivot and with greater stopping force. They are built similar to single pivot but use a cam to increase mechanical advantage. In any case because a single pivot may not fix your problem I'd try before buying anything if at all possible.

How much additional clearance are you looking for? Any guess? Can you estimate by how much the tire is rubbing the brake?

[Wilderbeast331]

its rubbing enough so that the wheel wont spin, so pretty bad. Probably need about 10mm of clearance

[EricEstlund]

I had the fork drilled

Odds are this is the problem. Many track forks are shorter then their road counterparts. Just drilling the crown doesn't mean you have enough vertical distance from the brake hole to the axle to allow for a brake.

Put a pencil or something in the drop outs and measure up to the hole. Report back- but I'm guessing the fork axle to crown location, and specifically the axle to brake location, it to short. Are the brake pads positioned on the braking surface of your rims, or below it? What size rubber are you running?

[Wilderbeast331]

Yes the pads are on the braking surface. I am running a 700x23 tire. It is about 13in from the axle to the drilled hole.

[rustychisel]

New fork.

at that measurement a Veloflex 22c won't fit; I doubt a Continental 20c tyre would fit. The critical measurement is from centre of rim brake track to centre of drilled hole. Should be a minimum of 38~40mm

[ultraman6970]

Dont want to sound mean but who in the world told you to drill a track fork?? Some track forks are so tight that are disigned to use 22 or 20 mm tubulars only. The Tesch I had was like that, only 20 or 21 mm tubulars in there. Clinchers did not fit. Besides if you put the hole wrong...

U could have a mayor problem if you want to sell the bike because if it was a good quality 80s really expensive frame once u drilled the fork the value goes down. Personally drilled track frames are a big no no to me, maybe for others aint, but for me is a big deal.

The right way to do what u want to do is to just go and buy a new road fork or another fork from a fixie that was designed with the hole in there and that will have clearance maybe to be used even with 35 mm tires.

Since obviously u will use the bike in the street and not for racing the handling differences aren't important. Hope you are not a hipster, the other day I noticed some bitterness with some forumites with a web article that mentioned hipsters.

Good luck, hope you know what are u doing....

Sorry if I sounded mean but I can't stand this things, is his money tho...

cya :)

[Scott Shire]

Buy one of these (http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=188_482_1209&zenid=ddb5ad27e700a77f1bd58a10604293ee)

Keirin clamp on kit. The right way to put brakes on an undrilled bike. The Keirin guys train with these on the road so they aren't doing sweet skidzzzz with 90+ GI.

Or, get you a nice Nashbar road fork and use that Sora caliper.

[EricEstlund]

Yes the pads are on the braking surface. I am running a 700x23 tire. It is about 13in from the axle to the drilled hole.

Yup- that's it. A Sora Caliper is a 39-49mm reach brake. Lets say you have it up at the 39mm reach, that would be 350mm from the axle, or roughly 13.78", minimum axle to brake hole for a 700c wheel.

[Wilderbeast331]

Yup- that's it. A Sora Caliper is a 39-49mm reach brake. Lets say you have it up at the 39mm reach, that would be 350mm from the axle, or roughly 13.78", minimum axle to brake hole for a 700c wheel.

Yeah i took that caliper back to the store and now im on the hunt for a caliper that will work. I remeasured and its about 13.5".

I don't plan on selling the bike for a very long time. So resale value isn't a big concern for me and the for it has now is rad.

[Wilderbeast331]

Words...
No I'm not a hipster, I just enjoy riding fixed and like to have a brake for "oh ????" occasions.

[oldpotatoe]

disregarding that you probably ought not to put a brake in a fork that's not designed for it, what I think you want is a single-pivot brake. Dual-pivots use 1/2 cm or more of head space that the older-style don't.

Campy may still make a single-pivot intended for use as a rear brake so that will involve some more work and expense. Otherwise you can still buy single-pivots new from Diacompe but IMO you're better off with vintage weinmann, diacompe etc for this application. I use these on my winter bike allowing *just* enough clearance for Nokian studded tires.


Just use a longer brake nut for a rear brake on the front...

[RPS]

Just use a longer brake nut for a rear brake on the front...
How much will that help?

I was going to suggest trying to mount a brake behind the fork in "aero" position because it would add about 1 CM (based on my Oval Concepts' mounting bracket) but I doubt one is made that doesn't already have the offset built in. I looked to see if rear Oval brake could be mounted at front but the mounting hardware is different (would require modification). Otherwise it would provide about an extra CM.

Does anyone make a brake mount adaptor? I built one a few years ago when tinkering and it worked fine. If someone makes one that raises caliper about 1 CM that might work too.

[jvp]

I run a keirin front brake on my '76 fuji feather commuter, it works fine but I brake mostly with my legs, and assist w/ my legs when I use it.
http://velospace.org/files/fuji_track2.jpg

[christian]

This is, quite possibly, the dumbest thread in the history of the Serotta forum.

Guy does dumb thing (drills fork), tries to do other dumb things (fit brake to drilled track fork). Forum members propose potential solutions, good and bad (keirin brakes, new fork). Guy rejects potential solutions because he loves his sweet bike with the ruined fork as is.

I suggest you cut your losses, buy a hybrid, and don't try to get clever again.

[ultraman6970]

+1 with christian. Then he claims he is not a hipster :D Hipster manual rule #1, drill the darn fork and put a brake caliper in there.

There are so many solutions for his problem, even there is one that nobody mentioned. If you have an old rim, cut 2 short pieces out of it. And use that as a rear brake bridge.

The rear brake pin and bolt will press the rim against the seatstays and it will be perfectly fixed in place. And done with it. this is a super old and cleaver solution instead of doing really dumb hipster things.

Rule #2 in a hipster manual, We have no idea about bike mechanics but we look good in the track bike.

[Birddog]

Rough crowd.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

"buy a hybrid"
I wouldn't wish a hybrid on my mother-in-law.

[jvp]

I tried a rear clamp-on brake/no front brake combo and wasn't happy with the lack of sudden stopping power that a front brake provides. Even with leg braking. For speed control on steep downhills it was fine, but for dealing w/ urban traffic I need a front brake.

[torquer]

Would some kind of a drop bolt help (if installed upside-down)?
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/dropbolts.jpeg
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dpdropbolt.html
No longer in stock at Harris, but should be available elsewhere.

[RPS]

This is, quite possibly, the dumbest thread in the history of the Serotta forum.
I don’t see the harm in sharing ideas even when they are unorthodox. Besides, doing "dumb" things can be fun and a good way to learn as long as they don't involve a safety issue. :)

[RPS]

Would some kind of a drop bolt help (if installed upside-down)?
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/dropbolts.jpeg
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dpdropbolt.html
No longer in stock at Harris, but should be available elsewhere.
Very similar to what I made out of steel bar stock and it worked great for what I needed. Once installed you can't hardly see it.

[Wilderbeast331]

I was able to find a caliper that will work :hello: . Thanks for all the ideas and help.

[oldpotatoe]

How much will that help?

I was going to suggest trying to mount a brake behind the fork in "aero" position because it would add about 1 CM (based on my Oval Concepts' mounting bracket) but I doubt one is made that doesn't already have the offset built in. I looked to see if rear Oval brake could be mounted at front but the mounting hardware is different (would require modification). Otherwise it would provide about an extra CM.

Does anyone make a brake mount adaptor? I built one a few years ago when tinkering and it worked fine. If someone makes one that raises caliper about 1 CM that might work too.

I was answering the post about the 'expense' of getting a rear single pivot caliper(Campagnolo) onto a fork, which isn't hard or expensive.