Andy Schleck's new trek [Archive]

Mark McM

07-01-2011, 02:32 PM

In the photo the bike is angled downward (front wheel is lower than the rear wheel), which gives the illusion that the saddle/handlebar height difference is larger than it really is.

Andy is fairly tall for a pro bike racer (6' 1"). This looks like a typical setup for a pro rider of his size.

soulspinner

07-01-2011, 02:48 PM

Where's the chain keeper?

:)

sg8357

07-01-2011, 02:50 PM

Where's the chain keeper?

Velo & Cycling News both took pics...great minds etc.

wooly

07-01-2011, 02:51 PM

Where's the chain keeper?

Yeah, where's the damn frisbee?

firerescuefin

07-01-2011, 02:54 PM

Not custom....Contact Points......Effective

tv_vt

07-01-2011, 02:55 PM

Man, that chain is clean!

When I look at his bike, I really wonder if that seat/hb drop and reach is the best from a power and comfort perspective. Is he gaining anything by setting up his bike that way? Would he be losing anything by setting his bars higher?

My lower back hurts just looking at it.

fiamme red

07-01-2011, 02:58 PM

Here's his bike from last year for comparison:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/theroaddiaries/4772108805/

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4772108805_30c045c69c_b.jpg

ultraman6970

07-01-2011, 04:35 PM

Soon fatty;s and racers wannabees are going to start showing up with track stems in the road now. Anyobody remember long time ago when every wanted to ride in the same position than lemond ?? :D

fourflys

07-01-2011, 04:39 PM

of course comparing this year's bike to lat years is kind of an apples and oranges comparison because two different manufacturers...

yes, looking at that bike makes my back hurt regardless of where the front wheel is, but I'm not about to argue over a successful pro's setup... I'm guessing he knows what works for him at this point...

it is kind of funny to see how far forward or back a lot of pro's seats are though... almost makes you think the whole setback thing that SO many people swear by isn't that important...

Fixed

07-01-2011, 04:56 PM

Looks like a race bike to me...
+1
cheers

BCS

07-01-2011, 05:05 PM

Would he be losing anything by setting his bars higher?

Watts.

:crap: He's a PRO. Don't you think he is set up to maximize power. I doubt he sets his bike up this way to look "PRO".

labratmatt

07-01-2011, 06:04 PM

Nice bike. Dopey setup.

I bet he'd be a more competent descender if he brought those bars up a bit.

saab2000

07-01-2011, 06:16 PM

I hope these comments disparaging his setup are a joke. That bike is long and low, like Lemond's used to be. Fast.

Those are not track stems. Just regular -17� stems. Bikes handle better with a lower C of G and the -17� is one way to get lower.

It is not a painful position either. The only way such a setup would be painful is if someone already has back issues. Otherwise long and low is just fine.

Pro race bikes are set up to be fast but they are most definitely NOT uncomfortable. The riders ride them like this 300 days per year.

bicycletricycle

07-01-2011, 06:23 PM

sometime in the last 10 years -17 degrees went from regular to pista. No ste angle is track or road or whatever, especially when you are fitting onto a non custom carbon thing, he is lucky that he didnt have to use an ergostem.

saab2000

07-01-2011, 06:32 PM

Deda makes a track stem that is less than 73�/-17�.

Both Thomson and 3T sell road stems in the 73�/-17� angle as well. I use them because I like them and the lower position they allow me.

sometime in the last 10 years -17 degrees went from regular to pista. No ste angle is track or road or whatever, especially when you are fitting onto a non custom carbon thing, he is lucky that he didnt have to use an ergostem.

Kirk Pacenti

07-01-2011, 07:43 PM

it is kind of funny to see how far forward or back a lot of pro's seats are though... almost makes you think the whole setback thing that SO many people swear by isn't that important...

I don't get the why the 'slammed' look has become so popular. It indicates poorly executed design to me. Assuming all the contact points are in the correct spot (and I do), it seems the post should be clamping the rails in the middle to allow for minor adjustments in both directions.

Having said that, set back is very important. It represents a point in space, and is independent from the style du jour. I'd wager the nose of his saddle falls pretty much in the same place behind the BB spindle on both bikes. It would be nice if they could achieve the right fit with a balanced aesthetic though...

Cheers,

KP

ultraman6970

07-01-2011, 08:04 PM

It is the same set up in both machines for me too. The trek has more front tube then no spacers in comparison with the specialized. If it works for him, good.

false_Aest

07-01-2011, 08:40 PM

The bikes pros ride are designed for us. They have to ride them. They make them work.

Who cares if their saddles are slammed back or there's no spacers? You are not some genetic alien-freak.

The bike is the bike.
The rider is the rider.

The bike is sexy.
Who cares about anything else

jlwdm

07-01-2011, 10:07 PM

Those lines in the picture don't work when the bikes are not level.

Jeff

wc1934

07-01-2011, 10:50 PM

I hope these comments disparaging his setup are a joke. That bike is long and low, like Lemond's used to be. Fast.

I am getting quite a kick out of some of the comments - armchair qb's telling the pro how his bike should be set up and what should be comfortable for him.

bozman

07-01-2011, 10:59 PM

I dig the colors. It should help him finish second to the tainted Spaniard again this year.

false_Aest

07-01-2011, 11:34 PM

I dig the colors. It should help him finish second to the Spaniard's taint again this year.

fixed for you

Olmo

07-02-2011, 12:10 AM

Anyone else think that this should have been built with a no-setback post?

DRietz

07-02-2011, 02:03 AM

I personally think that Team Sky's new green Dogmas look particularly beautiful...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4940/26059510150263513159873.jpg

(notice the extremely long Deda35 stem)

Bob Ross

07-02-2011, 05:26 AM

I don't get the why the 'slammed' look has become so popular. It indicates poorly executed design to me. Assuming all the contact points are in the correct spot (and I do), it seems the post should be clamping the rails in the middle to allow for minor adjustments in both directions.

Saddle on that Trek looks like a fizik Aliante to me...and if it is, I think I understand why it's slammed on Andy's bike:

Because fizik put the fcuking rails in the wrong place on that model!

After riding two of the lower-priced Aliante variants on two different bikes for the past ~6 years, I sprang for a swanky new Aliante carbon/kium saddle a couple weeks ago, and was astonished/flummoxxed/annoyed to discover I could not get this (ostensibly) identically-shaped saddle into the same position without slamming it all the way back to the forwardmost point on its rails. Just absolutely insipid design.

A trend borne of stupidity.

soulspinner

07-02-2011, 06:10 AM

Peter P.

07-02-2011, 07:05 AM

Schleck's a tall guy, and I don't know whether he rides Trek's largest offering, but I wonder whether the position on the bike is to make the frame fit him.

Slamming the seat back could be an awkward attempt to achieve a long enough top tube or to make up for lack of sufficiently long cranks. Unfortunately, tall riders suffer from UCI regulations limiting bike dimensions so fitting tall riders can be impossible.

We all know the levers high on the bars trick along with the now en vogue compact bars is a way to deal with the lack of height due to the rakishly cool looking low handlebars.

Many of us are likely unaware that pros are no smarter than us with regard to bike position; only faster. I can't believe they change position as they change teams and are set up on their new sponsor bikes by this year's management/sponsor.

And let's not forget the limitations of production carbon frames; their construction makes the possibility of building custom frames for riders outside the bell curve cost prohibitive.

As far as I'm concerned, all these position changes toward the long, low, slammed stem look is fashion, and you're only going to see the ranks of the consumer and amateur follow.

1centaur

07-02-2011, 07:36 AM

Without actually going to the website to look at Trek geo, I suspect HT height interacts with seatpost sponsor in making for this setup.

I suspect the Specialized team edition frames had lower HTs than that Trek does, and it looks like he was using the extra long setback FSA post on the Specialized while he's using the 25 setback on what may be a Bontrager post. If he goes to a bigger Trek frame, which would be the aesthete's answer to a slammed saddle for a given seat post setback, he might have to deal with too high a head tube to get the STB he wants, and he might want the amount of stiffness he's getting from the TT at the length in the pictured bike.

Basically, he's making do with what he's given, and he'd probably agree that if he had his choice his bike would not have that look. At 6' 1" he's well within the bell curve for Trek's designers but his flexibility/strength is not.

avalonracing

07-02-2011, 08:08 AM

I personally think that Team Sky's new green Dogmas look particularly beautiful...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4940/26059510150263513159873.jpg

That is because that neon green is SO early '90s. Everything old is new again.

Black Dog

07-02-2011, 08:10 AM

Kirk Pacenti

07-02-2011, 08:30 AM

Can anyone tell me why Trek put the entrance for the rear brake cable on the right side of the head tube? It causes the rear brake cable to have a really tight bend from the handle bars to the head tube. Why not put it on the left side and have a nice gentle bend to the head tube. I ride with a few guys that ride these Treks and it is a ridiculous design.

I have been trying to sort that one out for a couple years... makes no sense imo.

The only reasonable explanation could be that they designed it for people / markets who set the brakes up with the left lever operating the rear brake.

Cheers,

KP

firerescuefin

07-02-2011, 08:41 AM

Nice bike. Dopey setup.

I bet he'd be a more competent descender if he brought those bars up a bit.

You're so right....what do Andy Schleck, Dr. Andy Pruitt, and Riis (Authors of his current fit carried over to Trek) know about fitting a pro tour rider to a bicycle. :rolleyes:

Like I said in an earlier post

"Not custom....Contact Points......Effective"

saab2000

07-02-2011, 08:58 AM

You're so right....what do Andy Schleck, Dr. Andy Pruitt, and Riis (Authors of his current fit carried over to Trek) know about fitting a pro tour rider to a bicycle. :rolleyes:

No kidding!

How would a higher setup improve his descending? Having descended in the Alps in some actual races I can assure anyone who cares that it is scary as hell, fast and you need a stable setup. Lower is more stable. Period.

As to the whole setback thing, it could be solved if Trek made seat masts with more or less setback. That is something they really ought to do and I think they once did for Taylor Phinney. Seems like a no brainer.

And as to their positions and being dumb about it? Wrong again. The big teams spend a lot of time with power meters and ergo cycles in labs figuring this stuff out in the winter. They also spend a lot of time in wind tunnels.

Watch most of them ride. They look good on their bikes. It's not by accident either. Note I said most. Not all. But most do.

bozman

07-02-2011, 09:20 AM

fixed for you

thanks! no matter how it is written I fear the outcome will be the same.
:crap:

Germany_chris

07-02-2011, 04:48 PM

I have been trying to sort that one out for a couple years... makes no sense imo.

The only reasonable explanation could be that they designed it for people / markets who set the brakes up with the left lever operating the rear brake.

Cheers,

KP

I ride moto style so it would be nice for me.

cmg

07-02-2011, 08:33 PM

No kidding!

How would a higher setup improve his descending? Having descended in the Alps in some actual races I can assure anyone who cares that it is scary as hell, fast and you need a stable setup. Lower is more stable. Period.

As to the whole setback thing, it could be solved if Trek made seat masts with more or less setback. That is something they really ought to do and I think they once did for Taylor Phinney. Seems like a no brainer.

And as to their positions and being dumb about it? Wrong again. The big teams spend a lot of time with power meters and ergo cycles in labs figuring this stuff out in the winter. They also spend a lot of time in wind tunnels.

Watch most of them ride. They look good on their bikes. It's not by accident either. Note I said most. Not all. But most do.

More setback on seat posts. Why is this a novel idea? only the easton ec70 and the FSA pro wing offer more than 22mm of setback. The FSA is a b!tch to setup. why? more setback less slammed look.

labratmatt

07-02-2011, 09:46 PM

How would a higher setup improve his descending?

A. Schleck seems to descend up on the hoods. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. I'm guessing this is because his drops are uncomfortably low. Descending on the hoods sucks! It's just not confidence inspiring.

I do realize I'm totally the douche commenting from the sideline. :)

labratmatt

07-02-2011, 09:54 PM

You're so right....what do Andy Schleck, Dr. Andy Pruitt, and Riis (Authors of his current fit carried over to Trek) know about fitting a pro tour rider to a bicycle. :rolleyes:

Andy Pruitt (not a medical doctor, Ed.D), and Riis can only make suggestions to Andy. I have no idea if Andy heeds their advice or not (or if their advice is good).

Peter P made a good point above: "Many of us are likely unaware that pros are no smarter than us with regard to bike position; only faster."

Like I said above, I realize that I'm running my mouth from the sidelines. If you saw me on the bike, you may very well laugh. :)

firerescuefin

07-02-2011, 10:03 PM

Nice bike. Dopey setup. I bet he'd be a more competent descender if he brought those bars up a bit.

I have no idea if Andy heeds their advice or not (or if their advice is good).

I have to admit this gave me a chuckle...."or if their advice is good" ...cmon bro.

Andy P is arguably the best bike fitter in the world and has developed a lot of the high end/tech tools that others are just now using. I don't know what an MD would do to make him a better fitter. Riis has won the tour and has and continues to work with the best riders in the world. Do you think that Andy does not know what works for him. I think the three of them probably can come up with the right/optimal fit for Andy. Positioning for descending is one part of the fit. It certainly doesn't drive the bus.

So yeah, I think your statements are misinformed.

labratmatt

07-02-2011, 11:17 PM

I made a douche level 8 comment. Deleted.

Tim

07-03-2011, 11:01 AM

Andy is tall, young and flexible- so the height difference between the seat and bars is no big deal for him- besides it's fast and aero too. The seat position on the rails only looks odd because of the lack of setback on the post. If the post had more setback, the seat rails would be about in the middle. It would then look more 'normal' and this whole discussion wouldn't be happening.
Both the Trek and last year's Specialized bikes look to be set up about the same- it must be working for him- if it didn't work, you know they would have changed it.
It's also true that bike racers are not always the best judges of bike fit...have you ever seen Sean Kelly on his Vitus bikes? But those days are probably gone- lots of technology available now to get the pros a really good fit.

Grant McLean

07-03-2011, 02:02 PM

it is kind of funny to see how far forward or back a lot of pro's seats are though... almost makes you think the whole setback thing that SO many people swear by isn't that important...

I don't think that's the correct conclusion to come to.
Riders with different physiology and different goals need different positions.
A climber doesn't set their bike up like a sprinter. There is no reason to think
that all pro bikes should be set up the same way. The best position is one that
suits the individual rider's needs.

-g

ergott

07-03-2011, 02:31 PM

I love hearing from all the experts here. Very enlightening.

:confused:

Here's an idea, these guys know a ????e-wad more about biking than the armchair fitters here. They do 10s of thousands of miles with their setup and they train in the mountains all the time. Andy isn't getting a custom, one-off bike. He gets a Trek you can buy too. To hear people here critique his fit is beyond ridiculous.

-

azrider

07-03-2011, 06:31 PM

jlwdm

07-03-2011, 07:29 PM

Ergott +1

Sean Kelly position problems? I think his position probably worked pretty well for him. He was no 1 in the world for 48 consecutive months.

Sure there are theories on the best position but no one system works well for everyone. Just like golfers swings. Jim Furyk's swing might not be classic but it works for him. Cyclists at this level learn what works for them.

I did not understand the comment about only two posts with more setback than 22mm. I have two bikes with 25mm and one with 35mm of setback. Not the brands listed.

Jeff

fourflys

07-03-2011, 09:46 PM

I don't think that's the correct conclusion to come to.
Riders with different physiology and different goals need different positions.
A climber doesn't set their bike up like a sprinter. There is no reason to think
that all pro bikes should be set up the same way. The best position is one that
suits the individual rider's needs.

-g

agree... and again I'm not second guessing anyone, I just thougt it was an interesting observation...

binxnyrwarrsoul

07-18-2011, 01:30 PM

Trek. Yawn.

andeww

07-18-2011, 01:46 PM

i agree but it is sleek

Peter P.

07-18-2011, 07:35 PM

i agree but it is sleek

Yeah; and every Schleck wannabe will copy it just so they can pretend they're Andy-and I'm not joking about that.

I disagree with ergott's comment "these guys know a ????e-wad more about biking than the armchair fitters here". The number of miles ridden is not a direct correlation to knowledge about fit. Second, the statement implies these guys are setting THEMSELVES up on the bike and they're not using fitters amd the like. Maybe; maybe not. I remember Andy Pruitt setting up Thor, Jens, Fabian etc. when they were sponsored by Specialized, so why not now?

I'd bet there are many fitters, AND framebuilders, that know more about fit than pro riders, and the aforementioned likely have no where near the same mileage as AndyThorAlberto. Remember; many of us were 20-30something once and even though we ate, drank. and slept cycling, we had a dearth of knowledge about fit compared to what we know today.

In the end, I'd say fit is not as important as we think or rather, we can actually perform quite well on a poor fitting bike.

echappist

07-18-2011, 07:48 PM

Am i the first to note that he went from a very P-R-O classic round bars to sissy/compact/ergo/whatever bars trek gave him?

firerescuefin

07-18-2011, 08:11 PM

Yeah; and every Schleck wannabe will copy it just so they can pretend they're Andy-and I'm not joking about that.

I disagree with ergott's comment "these guys know a ????e-wad more about biking than the armchair fitters here". The number of miles ridden is not a direct correlation to knowledge about fit. Second, the statement implies these guys are setting THEMSELVES up on the bike and they're not using fitters amd the like. Maybe; maybe not. I remember Andy Pruitt setting up Thor, Jens, Fabian etc. when they were sponsored by Specialized, so why not now?

I'd bet there are many fitters, AND framebuilders, that know more about fit than pro riders, and the aforementioned likely have no where near the same mileage as AndyThorAlberto. Remember; many of us were 20-30something once and even though we ate, drank. and slept cycling, we had a dearth of knowledge about fit compared to what we know today.

In the end, I'd say fit is not as important as we think or rather, we can actually perform quite well on a poor fitting bike.

Andy Pruitt still works with Schleck. Little at that level is left to wives tales amymore.

rice rocket

07-18-2011, 08:13 PM

Did we really need to bump this thread again?

Also, you can buy the "Schleck edition" in full now for $11k, or the Spartacus edition.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/race_performance/madone_6_series/madone_6_9_ssl_leopard_schleck/#

http://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/TrekBicycleProducts/30153?wid=965&hei=700&fit=fit,1&fmt=png-alpha&qlt=80,1&op_usm=0,0,0,0&iccEmbed=0

rnhood

07-18-2011, 08:19 PM

In the end, I'd say fit is fairly important..... but that given the typical adjustments and components available for bikes its almost impossible to find a stock bike someone can't fit on assuming the frame size is roughly correct. Just because aesthetics don't meet the fancy of someone's eye doesn't mean its an ill fitting bike.

ergott

07-18-2011, 08:29 PM

I remember Andy Pruitt setting up Thor, Jens, Fabian etc. when they were sponsored by Specialized, so why not now?

What makes you think AS didn't work with some professional fitter? The guy probably worked with a fitter, all the measuring tools imaginable and a wind tunnel to boot.

The guy is a top tour contender. They tend to take that stuff pretty serious. He looks just fine when he's on the bike.

cmg

07-18-2011, 09:01 PM

Is that a mercedes Benz symbol on the fork? German engineering, cool.

rice rocket

07-18-2011, 09:59 PM

They're just a sponsor I think.

WickedWheels

07-18-2011, 11:02 PM

If your body fat percentage is in double digits please delete your comments on fitting.

If you've never been in a race please delete your comments on fitting.

If your idea of a good fit is a bike that keeps your slipped disc from hurting please delete your comments on fitting.

If you haven't had a modern race bike in over 10 years please delete you comments on proper bike set up.

If you have turned pro at any point, won THE Tour (or any Tour), spent more time in the saddle than in bed, on the couch or at the dinner table then please chime in with your 2 cents' worth. If you've made a career in this silly industry then get on your soap box, but keep in mind that it may cost you business and/or respect.

As a fitter, an ex-racer (a very crappy one), a bike industry professional and someone whose body fat percentage is in the triple digits my only comment on his fit is this: he's a faster and better rider than anyone I've ever worked with.

R2D2

07-19-2011, 05:41 AM

Looks to me that is riding the smallest frame possible for his size. A pretty common tactic at that level of racing. As far as looks, it probably looks great from the back and that's all we would ever see......

ergott

07-19-2011, 05:42 AM

R2D2

07-19-2011, 05:46 AM

There is truth to the fact that some pros are fit poorly on the bike, no question. I just don't think AS is one of them. It's not about what the bike looks like, it's about what the rider on top of it looks like.
To add on, it is hard to determine anything from a picture of a staionary bike. He seems to look comforatble in motion. But what works for Andy or anyone else may not work for me or you. I made the mistake of religously following Lemonds advice in the 80's and then found out he has really long femurs. I don't.

T.J.

07-19-2011, 07:13 AM

If your body fat percentage is in double digits please delete your comments on fitting.

If you've never been in a race please delete your comments on fitting.

If your idea of a good fit is a bike that keeps your slipped disc from hurting please delete your comments on fitting.

If you haven't had a modern race bike in over 10 years please delete you comments on proper bike set up.

If you have turned pro at any point, won THE Tour (or any Tour), spent more time in the saddle than in bed, on the couch or at the dinner table then please chime in with your 2 cents' worth. If you've made a career in this silly industry then get on your soap box, but keep in mind that it may cost you business and/or respect.

+1 . I have single digit body fat and I race but a cat2 is a far cry from a euro pro. Seems silly for me to critque his set up.I would think he knows what works for him by this point.