just got hit by an ambulance in front of a hospital on the way to work.

[bicycletricycle]

then i got 2 tickets for getting hit by an ambulance after i came out of the hospital. awesome.

[AngryScientist]

youch, you OK?

[Steve in SLO]

...that is a truly great definition of 'painful irony'.

[gearguywb]

There is surely a story in here....

[Team Murray]

Ambulance chasing?

[redir]

That's crazy. Were you at fault?

[bigflax925]

***? Details, man... details!

[dekindy]

I love these stories that omit most of the relevant information.

[bicycletricycle]

no story really, slowed at an intersection, didnt see anyone, continued through, ambulance with lights and no siren on coming from the right doin 35 or so, it was a blind 4 way stop and he didn't slow and didn't see me (by his own admission) and clipped my back wheel.

[redir]

Damn dude that was a close one. Well FWIW I had a guy pull out of a parking spot and hit me a few years ago, cops gave me the ticket. It sucks but that is the way it is, the bicyclist is ALWAYS at fault in the cops eye. But I had the ticket thrown out of court so it's worth a try.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . for lights but no sirens? Who would they need to be sneaking up on?

What kind of shape is your bike in?

BBD

[dekindy]

So the ambulance had it's flashing lights on and was making an emergency run?

[bicycletricycle]

the hospital is in a neighborhood and they dont let them have the sirens on. back wheel and fender is trashed, i have to take a closer look at the rack and frame alignment. pretty lucky, i have no insurance and they shuttled me into the hospital right after, so i will have to see what i can do to get the ambulance company to pay the bill. i will probably be stuck with it.

[drewski]

Oh the humanity!!! The irony!!!That sucks. Its probably not worth getting a lawyer for the damage you experienced.

If you were related to Buddy Cianci I bet you could get your bike damage
costs recouped.

Hope you did not get hoirt.

[bicycletricycle]

i got some x rays so my hospital bill might be steep.

[Dekonick]

Hospital bills can be negotiated. In MD it is illegal to run with lights and nno audible warning device (siren) but it is commonly done late at night in neighborhoods out of courtsey...

[davidlee]

I know that firetrucks and ambulances have a job to do but in my neck of the woods Ive seen 'em driving a lot lately like absolute maniacs, esp the big firetrucks thru tight downtown streets..
Glad you are ok bro..
d

[maximus]

What were the tickets you received from the cops? That's going to be a tough one to fight in court unless you have a good lawyer...more money.

Bummer about the bike and bills - but glad you made it out with functioning limbs. Sounds like a close one.

[false_Aest]

You think there's a discount for trips to the hospital that are less than 1 mile?


yo,

When I was 17 I walked across the street and got smacked by a big white cadi. I was issued a ticket for "Failure to yield to a vehicle."

Went before a judge he said, "Yeah, you weren't in a cross walk . . . you already got a break by still being alive. $200 and 1 year supervision."

FWIW.


Also, I'm glad you're still alive.

[SEABREEZE]

no story really, slowed to about 5 mph at an intersection, didnt see anyone, continued through, ambulance with lights and no siren on coming from the right doin 35 or so, it was a blind 4 way stop and he didn't slow and didn't see me (by his own admission) and clipped my back wheel.


In a written police report or virbally? Will make all the difference, when you try to collect for damages to bike

Why then did you receive 2 tickets?


Anyway good to hear your OK !!!

[bicycletricycle]

evidently the report was filled out while i was in the hospital without asking me what happened, I was informed that i can pick up a copy at the police station. The tickets are for running a stop sign (i didnt) and failure to yield to an emergency vehicle. there was no one around so the officer and the driver must have worked out what happened, strange thing his, the ambulance driver didn't see me till he hit me so how could he know what i did and did not do? It must be against the rules to fill out a police report with out interviewing the involved parties when they are still on the scene, the police officer came into the hospital and got my ID but never asked me a question about what happened. (I was hit in front of the hospital so it was not a long walk).

[miguel]

lawyer up

[gdw]

Sorry to read about your accident but the tickets are justified based upon your own post:

"slowed to about 5 mph at an intersection, didnt see anyone, continued through,"

Talk with a competent lawyer and see what they advise, the ambulance driver should have stopped at the intersection too.....and modify or delete your earlier post.

[William]

That effin sucks man. Glad you weren't hurt worse though.

I can't believe that he could run a four way stop with lights and no siren. :crap: If it's a blind 4-way, and he had no siren, wouldn't safety dictate that he slow and check the intersection before blowing through? If it's blind and he has no siren, you could have checked and saw no vehicles and preceded without knowing he was coming...in which he blew through the stop. Seems either way you might have some teeth....but I would lawyer up like was already mentioned.




William

[cat6]

i was hit a few months back coming off of a bike trail that exited in to a pedestrian cross walk across a street, and back on to the trail on the other side. this was part of a daily commute which i've done for years. i had a green light and the person rolled through their red light. thankfully i was able to jump off the bike as it went down (i wasn't going very fast). after a bike check and a body check with a bunch of cursing and arm waving i decided to let the driver go even though she ran the light. why? because i was riding through a pedestrian crosswalk, and even though that's where the bike trail spit me out, the law would expect me to dismount and walk the bike through it.

it's a coin toss when dealing with these things, if your cop has cycling tan lines beneath their uniform you might be OK, if not you might find yourself with a couple of tickets along with your hospital bill. either way glad you're alright. best of luck.

[slowgoing]

So the ambulance that hit you then took you to the hopsital??? Lucky you. Be glad you weren't hit by the medical examiner.

[sc53]

So the ambulance that hit you then took you to the hopsital??? Lucky you. Be glad you weren't hit by the medical examiner.
Hah! good one slowgoing.

[bicycletricycle]

i walked to the hospital,

seems that by law they must have lights and sirens on for people to have to yield.

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-17/31-17-6.HTM

I was given a ticket for not stopping without any possible proof that i did not stop, the ambulance driver did not see me till he hit me, how would he or the police officer know what happen?

[MattTuck]

i walked to the hospital,

seems that by law they must have lights and sirens on for people to have to yield.

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-17/31-17-6.HTM

I was given a ticket for not stopping without any possible proof that i did not stop, the ambulance driver did not see me till he hit me, how would he or the police officer know what happen?


Get an attorney, read the actual police report. Get advice from attorney on how to proceed.

[bart998]

I don't know about the law where you are, but in California lights AND siren are required for Code 3 ...and to be able to legally run red lights or stop signs... sounds like at least 50/50.

[gdw]

"I was given a ticket for not stopping without any possible proof that i did not stop, the ambulance driver did not see me till he hit me, how would he or the police officer know what happen?"

Good question. Was there a witness you didn't see? Was the ambulance driver also ticketed?

[bicycletricycle]

ill check the report when i get it tomorrow for secret witnesses. ambulance driver was gone when i got out of the hospital.

[Lifelover]

World According to Greg:

Be thankful you are not hurt, ask the cop to drop the failure to yield ticket (in the absolute most gracious tone you can muster), be thankful you are not hurt, pay the failure to stop ticket, be thankful you are not hurt and move on with your life.

If every thing else goes to hell than just be thankful you are not hurt.

[eddief]

if anyone i have heard of has ever been a candidate for speaking to one, you'd be first on my list. something a little stinky here. no?

word against word.

[1centaur]

As long as we're playing Serotta Forum he said, she said, and it's not personal, let me play Devil's advocate to examine the case if you hire an attorney:

1) You were ticketed for running a stop sign, you said you did not, but you said you slowed to 5 mph and it was a 4-way stop, so I'm guessing you did run the stop sign.

2) If the driver said "I didn't see you" to you right after the accident and that's the only time he said it, I'm guessing he won't admit he said it in court. He'll say "that guy rolled through the stop sign and I couldn't avoid him."

3) On not getting your statement for the police report, it sounds a little like dirty pool but maybe the cop thought if you disagreed you'd make a request to amend the police report, for which there might be a time deadline and him not telling you that would be another example of dirty pool.

4) On not having the siren going, a judge might suggest that's not good policy given the sight lines and the speed (especially the latter), but if he's a hardass he might say "If you knew that the policy was no sirens in that neighborhood, why did you roll through the stop sign?" Speaking of speed, perceived vs. actual speed are two different things, especially in an accident. Might be worth calculating distance in both directions at that intersection and diagramming those in conjunction with implied speed. If he was going 20 mph and you were going 10 mph it's a whole different scenario than 5 mph (fast walking speed) and 30 mph with no ability to slow down if Momma's rapidly pushing a stroller across the intersection.

My reading so far is that there is blame on both sides. Solomon might split the baby and kick the tickets but not find fault with the ambulance driver in a way that would encourage their insurance to pay your bills. Judges are not Solomon, and you might have to say you stopped, looked and listened at the stop sign before proceeding, just to get the tickets kicked, which you might not comfortable doing.

[bicycletricycle]

i didnt know that ambulances drove without sirens in that neighborhood till i was hit by one. I am not really concerned about either ticket, just medical bills. Every incident has fault on both sides. I would just like some consideration for my expenses, i would go solomon 50/50 style if it was offered but i imagine it will not be. I imagine that the emergency room plus xrays will be a grand or so and I cant help but feel that i should not be entirely liable for all of that. I am going over to the police department tomorrow to pick up the report and see what I can do about the (in my eyes) possible unfairness.
i feel like my choices are-
1. no lawyer, pay the tickets/bills, feel happy about not being a vegetable.
2. get lawyer, have to be a real hard ass about the whole thing, they will want to get try and get a large settlement, I won't and maybe just end up in the same place after a lot of stress.
I really dont want to make a lot of trouble for the driver, everyone makes mistakes, both of us were lucky that it was not more serious.

well, thanks for the advice everyone, i have to go ice down my knees and order some parts to repair the Tournesol.

[eddief]

a blind 4 way stop. that sounds like a dangerous spot in which to be going 35 without any noise. yes, you may have rolled through it, but what about some old lady stepping off the curb.

not saying to go legal just for heck of it. just thinking about wrong, right, and medical bills.

something good should come from having to endure the gecko and the Progressive woman.

[slowgoing]

I would fight the failure to yield ticket as well. How can you fail to yield when you didn't even know there was an ambulance approaching? Ambulances going with no sirens need to be more cautious than those with sirens in case the lights aren't seen. This would be particularly true at a four way stop. Plus even an ambulance with sirens going can't just blow through a four way stop sign without approaching it cautiously. If he had approached it cautiously, he would have seen you. Plus, he clipped your back tire, correct? Not your front. That means you were already in the intersection for a while before he clipped you. Sounds like he was clearly at fault.

a blind 4 way stop. that sounds like a dangerous spot in which to be going 35 without any noise. yes, you may have rolled through it, but what about some old lady stepping off the curb.

not saying to go legal just for heck of it. just thinking about wrong, right, and medical bills.

something good should come from having to endure the gecko and the Progressive woman.

[BCS]

i have to go ice down my knees and order some parts to repair the Tournesol.

I don't want to come off as a dick but how many people who own Tournesols have no medical insurance. As a participant in a sport where there are obvious risks, exacerbated by blowing thru stop signs ( I am guilty too), you need to find a way to get yourself insured.

[wc1934]

So the ambulance that hit you then took you to the hopsital??? Lucky you. Be glad you weren't hit by the medical examiner.

Serious thread, but you made me laugh with that one.

[Dekonick]

From my point of view, any emergency vehicle must proceed with due dilligence. In MD you are required to STOP for stop signs and lights - even when running code 3. If he had no siren, and rolled throuogh the intersection, then in MD he broke the law.

Only way to go is to talk to an attorney - even though I hate doing just that.

[rugbysecondrow]

I would fight the failure to yield ticket as well. How can you fail to yield when you didn't even know there was an ambulance approaching? Ambulances going with no sirens need to be more cautious than those with sirens in case the lights aren't seen. This would be particularly true at a four way stop. Plus even an ambulance with sirens going can't just blow through a four way stop sign without approaching it cautiously. If he had approached it cautiously, he would have seen you. Plus, he clipped your back tire, correct? Not your front. That means you were already in the intersection for a while before he clipped you. Sounds like he was clearly at fault.

First and foremost, glad you are ok and not seriously hurt.

Maybe I missed this, but the purpose of a stop sign, especially a four way stop is to check for traffic. Even if you rolled through, did you look to see if there was a car coming? Sure, it was an ambulance with big flashing lights, but it could have just as easily been a Caddy driven by Ms. Daisy with no lights and the two of you both blowing a stop sign.


Read the report, see what was said and what you are up against. It may or may not be worth seeing a lawyer.

[Don49]

Glad you are okay. Your first order of legal business should be getting the traffic tickets dismissed. That could be as simple as contesting them and showing up on the court date. The ambulance's insurance will likely never settle with you as long as those tickets stand. Keep us posted.

[Lifelover]

I don't want to come off as a dick but how many people who own Tournesols have no medical insurance. As a participant in a sport where there are obvious risks, exacerbated by blowing thru stop signs ( I am guilty too), you need to find a way to get yourself insured.


I suspect he has insurance but they are refusing to pay since he went to an emergency room for non-emergent concerns.

Classic case where the truth is stranger than fiction.

[rwsaunders]

BT...I admire your perspective regarding the incident. Share your thoughts with the law and the ambulance company and I bet they work it out with you.

[SEABREEZE]

evidently the report was filled out while i was in the hospital without asking me what happened, I was informed that i can pick up a copy at the police station. The tickets are for running a stop sign (i didnt) and failure to yield to an emergency vehicle. there was no one around so the officer and the driver must have worked out what happened, strange thing his, the ambulance driver didn't see me till he hit me so how could he know what i did and did not do? It must be against the rules to fill out a police report with out interviewing the involved parties when they are still on the scene, the police officer came into the hospital and got my ID but never asked me a question about what happened. (I was hit in front of the hospital so it was not a long walk).


BT, there may have been camera's and caught the whole incident, it could play in your favor.

[PacNW2Ford]

While I think there is shared fault, the cameras will show a cyclist running a stop sign. And of course, the ambulance too.

[Louis]

While I think there is shared fault, the cameras will show a cyclist running a stop sign. And of course, the ambulance too.

But at how many feet / second is the ambulance approaching the intersection? How fast is the bike approaching?

And given those speeds, in how many feet / seconds would the ambulance be able to stop vs how quickly could the bike stop?

(And that's assuming the ambulance driver would see the bike / mother with baby carriage / 80 yr old person in the first place. If they never see you, then it really doesn't matter how good the brakes are.)

It's not just a matter of stopped vs not stopped. But in reality, the law probably doesn't care. If the bike slows to 0.00001 mph then rolls through the cyclist is at fault.

[rugbysecondrow]

But at how many feet / second is the ambulance approaching the intersection? How fast is the bike approaching?

And given those speeds, in how many feet / seconds would the ambulance be able to stop vs how quickly could the bike stop?

(And that's assuming the ambulance driver would see the bike / mother with baby carriage / 80 yr old person in the first place. If they never see you, then it really doesn't matter how good the brakes are.)

It's not just a matter of stopped vs not stopped. But in reality, the law probably doesn't care. If the bike slows to 0.00001 mph then rolls through the cyclist is at fault.

Before we start analyzing stop distances, let's understand that as much as we like BT, he was involved in an accident where he didn't see the vehicle coming when he rolled through a stop, got clip by that vehicle and had to go go to the hospital for injuries. I am not certain that he is the best judge to determine the facts of the incident. I am not calling him a liar, but that typically people remember thing based on their limited info, he admittedly has limited facts and might not be remembering things correctly. Instances like these are hard because they are high stress and the mind does funny things in life and death situations. In addition, lots of missing or incomplete info pike how can one accurately judge how fast a vehicle is moving when they did no see that vehicle approaching? Who knows if it was 15 or 35? Were there brake skid marks for the ambulance, did the OP have a helmet or headphones on? Did a witness say the OP didn't even look? My point is that there are so many facts that are missing and BT likely only knows has his limited perspective. Some of you guys form strong opinions pretty quickly about something you know nothing about.

By the way, were you wearing your helmet BT? I know you are not a fan of them.

[redir]

I think it's ridiculous that anyone would suggest that rolling through the stop sign at 5mph is not 'stopping'. If a car, lets say one out of the 500 that actually do come to a COMPLETE stop, did indeed actually stop then within 5 ft the car would be rolling at 5mph and would have been hit by the ambulance who's driver chose to blow a blind stop with no sirens.

For all practical purposes bicycletricle came to a normal every day average joe stop. If the ambulance had it's sirens on he would have heard it a long time before the incident.

my 2 cents. :beer:

[firerescuefin]

I think it's ridiculous that anyone would suggest that rolling through the stop sign at 5mph is not 'stopping'. If a car, lets say one out of the 500 that actually do come to a COMPLETE stop, did indeed actually stop then within 5 ft the car would be rolling at 5mph and would have been hit by the ambulance who's driver chose to blow a blind stop with no sirens.

For all practical purposes bicycletricle came to a normal every day average joe stop. If the ambulance had it's sirens on he would have heard it a long time before the incident.

my 2 cents. :beer:


My 2 cents...you roll stop signs on your bike without accounting for all lanes of traffic (and call that stopping), you won't be with us much longer. On the MUT the other day, crossing a street at a crosswalk with my two boys in the Chariot...young kid blows through the light 3 seconds late @ 30+ texting. I account for all cars before I go through any intersection.

There is no law that the ambulance doesn't use sirens in that N-hood. As a courtesy to those that live in neighborhoods, sirens are often not used in the middle of the night or early hours unless absolutely needed. As Dek stated, it is the driver operator's (emergency vehicle) responsibility to account for every lane of traffic before proceeding through an intersection...period. A real pet peave of mine with FD and PoPo when I see them just blow through an intersection. The last thing you can afford when going to an emergency scene....or going to the hospital is creating another emergency scene due to negligence.

[bicycletricycle]

does anyone here actually totally stop, put a foot down, look both ways and then continue to ride at every stop sign? I think that i only do that at lights or if there are cars in the intersection. I don't think that I have ever done that when the intersection is empty.

rugbysecondrow- I was not wearing a helmet and I did not hit my head so that was lucky.

BCS- I am currently in a gap of coverage between college and my new job.

I think this thread is going a little he said, she said.

I will keep you guys updated if and when anything changes.

[tele]

Glad you are ok. I certainly don't stop at stop signs all the way, but then I don't ride in any semblance of a city either.

Keep us updated and wear your helmet!

[Birddog]

Most cyclists execute as I do the "hesitation stop" i.e. you slow down enough to actually stop for a nano second (a mini track stand) check the intersection and proceed. I always slow enough to fully stop if nec. and can do so in a space of 5' or less. Rarely do I put a foot down, usually only when faced with a red light.

[pbbob]

[QUOTE=bicycletricycle]does anyone here actually totally stop, put a foot down, look both ways and then continue to ride at every stop sign?

yes. Even in the middle of nowhere.
It's what I need to do to be safe.

[Lifelover]

does anyone here actually totally stop, put a foot down, look both ways and then continue to ride at every stop sign?

If you had done the above, do you think you would have seen the ambulance and waited or do you think it just means you would have been t-boned by it?

P.S. what anyone (or everyone) here does has nothing to do with the law. I almost never stop and don't think that stopping would make me safer. However, if I ever get a ticket for not stopping I will accept it knowing that I deserve it.

[flydhest]

does anyone here actually totally stop, put a foot down, look both ways and then continue to ride at every stop sign? I think that i only do that at lights or if there are cars in the intersection.



. . . or ambulances?
:D

Seriously, though, heal quickly. My view as a friendly neighborhood moderator is that this thread is coming rapidly to the end of its useful life. Maybe not yet, but soon.

[Mark McM]

P.S. what anyone (or everyone) here does has nothing to do with the law. I almost never stop and don't think that stopping would make me safer. However, if I ever get a ticket for not stopping I will accept it knowing that I deserve it.

Unless you are riding in Idaho, where the law states that bicyclists may treat Stop signs as Yield signs - many state bicycle advocacy groups are trying to get their state laws changed to match the Idaho law

Idaho State Bicycle Stop Sign Law (http://legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2005/S1131.html):

" 8 49-720. STOPPING -- TURN AND STOP SIGNALS. (1) A person operating a bicy-
9 cle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and, if
10 required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing to a
11 reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any
12 vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to
13 constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or
14 within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after
15 slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may
16 cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping."

But, I'm guessing this accident didn't happen in Idaho, so the Idaho law is surely be moot in this case.

[67-59]

[QUOTE=bicycletricycle]does anyone here actually totally stop, put a foot down, look both ways and then continue to ride at every stop sign?

yes. Even in the middle of nowhere.
It's what I need to do to be safe.

Taking the OP's account at face value, a full stop might have killed him. He indicates it was a blind intersection, so he wouldn't have seen the ambulance any better at 0 mph than at 5 mph, and the lack of a siren prevented him from hearing it. So a complete stop might have put him in the path of the ambulance a couple of seconds later...possibly resulting in being t-boned instead of getting a glancing blow on the rear wheel.

I come to rolling stops in most cases instead of full stops because I believe it is actually safer. I always slow down enough to see every bit as much as I'd see if I came to a full, foot down stop. When I start going again, I can still stop quickly if I need to, but I can also accelerate more quickly than if I started from a full stop, if that's what I need to do to be safe.

[rugbysecondrow]

This makes no sense. How many intersections are four way stops and are actually "blind" intersection, mean you cannot see around the object to tell if a car is coming? Maybe I take too many precautions, but if I cannot see into traffic, I do not ride into traffic, period. Car, ambulance, pedestrian, dog, wolf, aliens, a damn meteroite...I don't care. I need to see where I am riding or I don't go there. I might not always rock my suspension, put my foot down, swivel my head and then proceed, but I sure to look at the intersection. I do not trust others, repeat, I do not trust others to stop. I do not rely on drivers to see me, I do not have faith that they will stop. I have to see evidence of their stop before I will put myself in front of them. Being right for me means not getting hit. If I get hit, arguing about how I was right is of little consequence.

The ambulance may be more at fault than BT, but I would bet BT will look more carefully at intersections next time he rides. I bet I will look more because of his lesson. It is a cheap lesson to learn, and I am glad he is around to pass this around to the rest of us.

I agree with your second part, the equivilant of being able to pop the clutch in an emergency.



[QUOTE=pbbob]

Taking the OP's account at face value, a full stop might have killed him. He indicates it was a blind intersection, so he wouldn't have seen the ambulance any better at 0 mph than at 5 mph, and the lack of a siren prevented him from hearing it. So the only thing that a complete stop might have done is put him in the path of the ambulance a couple of seconds later...possibly resulting in being t-boned instead of getting a glancing blow on the rear wheel.

I come to rolling stops in most cases instead of full stops because I believe it is actually safer. I always slow down enough to see every bit as much as I'd see if I came to a full, foot down stop. When I start going again, I can still stop quickly if I need to, but I can also accelerate more quickly than if I started from a full stop, if that's what I need to do to be safe.

[flydhest]

OK, this is enough.